UFO's - what do you believe?

dyer

another case ive been reading up on .. ill just keep adding them here randomly as i find them.. maybe at some point ill organise all the links in the thread somewhere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_rockets

from the last paragraph..

The Greek government conducted their own investigation, with their leading scientist, physicist Dr. Paul Santorini, in charge. Santorini had been a developer of the proximity fuze on the first A-bomb and held patents on guidance systems for Nike missiles and radar systems. Santorini was supplied by the Greek Army with a team of engineers to investigate what again were believed to be Russian missiles flying over Greece.

In a 1967 lecture to the Greek Astronomical Society, broadcast on Athens Radio, he first publicly revealed what had been found in his 1947 investigation. "We soon established that they were not missiles. But, before we could do any more, the Army, after conferring with foreign officials [U.S. Defense Dept.], ordered the investigation stopped. Foreign scientists [from Washington] flew to Greece for secret talks with me." Later Santorini told UFO researchers such as Raymond Fowler that secrecy was invoked because officials were afraid to admit of a superior technology against which we have "no possibility of defense."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_major_UFO_sightings

A LIST OF SIGHTINGS BY ASTRONOMERS

Ziycon

A lot of the sightings if not all of them could be explained by black projects being developed for the US government by the big players in the aviation and defense industries. Theres a good interview with the former CEO of Lockheed Martin Skunkworks where he talks vaguely about what hes been privy to and the possible extent of the technology thats in existence, the source of the tech is another topic of its own.

You can view the video here: Ben Rich Lockheed Skunk Works CEO Discusses UFOs

dyer

very nice! somewhere at the start he talks about them having working examples of anti-gravity (and much more) but without understanding it too much, eg. not supported by einsteins theory of relativity .. to me kinda suggests they were/are working from reverse engineered technology, they probably have gotten it working, but with no fundamental understanding of why it works. id love to dig out my old maths books and try that binomial expansion of einsteins theory he talked about it was also amazing that he mentioned the relationship between electricity and magnetism, much like what was told by ed leeskalnin in his papers that i posted about the other day. i recognised the man doing the interview as david sereda, he speaks publically at ufo conventions and the like.

other side of the coin is that this could be a bad practical joke, or something to blow smoke and cause worry for other governments. i cant help feeling his demeanour is a bit too relaxed for the subject material involved.. on the other hand he almost appears to be like a child in a sweetshop it would be great if it were true.

great video anyway, thanks

maninasia

Lockheeds and other 'skunkworks' companies are responsible for supersonic jets, black triangle light that air vehicles etc. They could not be responsible for UFOS that-

1. Precede development of supersonic flight but show supersonic flight
2. Don't create a sonic boom but move at 10,000 mph
3. Stop start on a dime, instant acceleration, 90 degree turns, hovering with no sound, rotating and falling leaf motion, sudden appearance/disappearance

Just read up on the sightings in the 1950s/1960s and even the present day. Try searching keyword 'silver sphere' or 'disc' UFO and tell me how is that 'skunkworks'?

Ziycon

maninasia wrote: »

Lockheeds and other 'skunkworks' companies are responsible for supersonic jets, black triangle light that air vehicles etc. They could not be responsible for UFOS that-

1. Precede development of supersonic flight but show supersonic flight
2. Don't create a sonic boom but move at 10,000 mph
3. Stop start on a dime, instant acceleration, 90 degree turns, hovering with no sound, rotating and falling leaf motion, sudden appearance/disappearance

Just read up on the sightings in the 1950s/1960s and even the present day. Try searching keyword 'silver sphere' or 'disc' UFO and tell me how is that 'skunkworks'?

Never said that back in the 50s/60s it was Lockheed Martin that was responsible for these craft.;)

maninasia

To be honest even in 2010 they couldn't be responsible, except for LAVs.

Ziycon

maninasia wrote: »

To be honest even in 2010 they couldn't be responsible, except for LAVs.

I take your point but in all fairness we may not be even able to comprehend what may have been developed in black programs, if you look at the amount of money spent in black programs over the past few years they must have a few surprises for us lowly civilians.

The black budget was estimated at $32 billion in 2008 and an estimated $50 billion in 2009 so theres a fair bit of money to figure stuff out, whether it be the expected results or something they never calculated for.

maninasia

Black program or no black program, the ability to do certain things is not possible right now, the best academics work in public universities...you don't see quantum computers and photoelectronics and energy systems coming out of 'black' projects. Even things like metamaterials which will be used in black ops were all invented in the public domain and continue to be added to by research teams all over the world. LAVs are not that technically challenging, blimps having been invented back at the start of the 20th century. The latest stealth blimps are just iterations of what went before them with some type of slow electric propulsion system so they are very quiet. They also fly at night, but seems they don't fly in the day-time and still too easy to discriminate, even with some kind of camoflauge technology they would easily be spotted in the day-time from different angles and lighting conditions and weather conditions. They probably are designed for electronic surveillance from high altitude or troop insertion at night. I don't doubt they do have some exotic vehicles, but their propulsion system cannot come out of thin air.

The black ops vehicles could not perform like this (disc/sphere) even with the most cutting edge technology...they need some type of electromagnetic field propulsion which would take a massive energy source or some exotic anti-gravity material for a start! No vehicle can accelerate instantaneously, stop on a dime, do right angled turns at 10,000 mph, be perfectly round or discoid shaped (no rotors/engines/wings/control surfaces) and yet still demonstrate lift and extreme banking. There's just no way for these things to stay in the air and move around like this.


Even IF (which I don't believe for a second they do ) they had this this magical technology would be so cutting edge (we are talking 100X stealth fighter cutting edge in complex systems) that there would inevitable crashes in friendly and foreign territory.

maninasia

a-k-47 wrote: »

My belief if 'they' are visiting, they are controlled from their home planet, similar to earths missions to mars etc. Our technology has basically only advanced immensly within a measely 80 -100 years. Think of it like this, its possible there is an advanced species on a similar planet with a million years of advanced technology on us!. UFO craft moving at high speed, stopping and changing direction this imo could only be done using an a.i pilot. Would not be possible for a living creature to withstand the g force created.

It's most likely they are 'living creatures' themselves, A.I. creatures.

Ziycon

If we go back to the manhatten project and look at how it was kept secret until it was needed we can see the basic systems in place to hide something of great technological value and as this was so many years ago it would have been easily possible to build up a much more robust system for secrecy and mis-information to hide evolving technological break troughs or the discovery that other forces may exist in the universe that would affect or change the way we understand sciences.

If you look at how we understand sciences, we use maths. Maths was created by humans to try and make sense and understand things that existed in the universe long before humans where around, it could be quite simple that there are other forces out there that the general public don't know exist yet as we still base everything in the civilian world on the premise that the way we use maths is correct and the formulas used are infallible.

maninasia

The Manhattan project was something that was rushed into reality but the theoretical undertakings behind it was open knowledge. It's actually fairly simple but requires huge resources (look at the Iranian program now, the key point is getting enough uranium to achieve a chain reaction which involves the use of 1000s of high speed centrifuges going day and night for months and years).

The Germans didn't rush into building the bomb as they believed the war would be over before they could have constructed one (apart from the problem of alienating many of their best scientists who were Jewish!).

I think physicists in other countries would have worked out how to use these energy sources if it was feasible or at least have small scale models of them. If you read well known popular physics authors like Michio Kaku or Brian Greene they do speculate on future inventions but they are very clear on the type of energies/materials required to do this.

Even look at something like the CERN project, it involves building a ring something like 20 km long, huge amount of collaboration and funds from around the world, and it broke down on the first go. I don't think it would be acheivable as a black ops operation...no way.

dyer

things been quite around here for a while

just thought id add this..

https://ca.edubirdie.com/blog/astrobiology-toxic-chemical

NASA-funded astrobiology research has changed the fundamental knowledge about what comprises all known life on Earth.

Researchers conducting tests in the harsh environment of Mono Lake in California have discovered the first known microorganism on Earth able to thrive and reproduce using the toxic chemical arsenic. The microorganism substitutes arsenic for phosphorus in its cell components.

"The definition of life has just expanded," said Ed Weiler, NASA's associate administrator for the Science Mission Directorate at the agency's Headquarters in Washington. "As we pursue our efforts to seek signs of life in the solar system, we have to think more broadly, more diversely and consider life as we do not know it."

This finding of an alternative biochemistry makeup will alter biology textbooks and expand the scope of the search for life beyond Earth. The research is published in this week's edition of Science Express.

perhaps now they might start searching for life outside of hydrogen

"The idea of alternative biochemistries for life is common in science fiction," said Carl Pilcher, director of the NASA Astrobiology Institute at the agency's Ames Research Center in Moffett Field, Calif. "Until now a life form using arsenic as a building block was only theoretical, but now we know such life exists in Mono Lake."

maninasia

Just the fact that this has been proven possible, that one of the former 6 crucial elements for life is entirely replaceable, is really a big deal! It does point to the fallacy of assuming life as we know it currently is the only way to do it.

Life's defnition can be boiled down to a collection of self-replicating molecules. So there is no hard and fast rule as to what that can constitute, obviously self replicating molecules can be made from the prevalent chemistry that they evolved from or that are available for use, in this case Phosphorous is not available so Arsenic fit the bill nicely.

murrayp4

Thread very quiet recently.
Anyone read Leslie Kean's new book?

Probably the most objective and lucid discussion I've read on the matter

DyldeBrill

Just watched an excellent program on Discovery about the Nazis and their ufo technology.

The story adds up in my mind with america robbing their ideas.Everything is explained from why there were so many sightings in North America and of course America itself.

If you havnt seen it I wont ruin it, really interesting!

RichieC

dyer wrote: »

things been quite around here for a while

just thought id add this..

http://www.nasa.gov/topics/universe/features/astrobiology_toxic_chemical.html

NASA-funded astrobiology research has changed the fundamental knowledge about what comprises all known life on Earth.

Researchers conducting tests in the harsh environment of Mono Lake in California have discovered the first known microorganism on Earth able to thrive and reproduce using the toxic chemical arsenic. The microorganism substitutes arsenic for phosphorus in its cell components.

"The definition of life has just expanded," said Ed Weiler, NASA's associate administrator for the Science Mission Directorate at the agency's Headquarters in Washington. "As we pursue our efforts to seek signs of life in the solar system, we have to think more broadly, more diversely and consider life as we do not know it."

This finding of an alternative biochemistry makeup will alter biology textbooks and expand the scope of the search for life beyond Earth. The research is published in this week's edition of Science Express.

perhaps now they might start searching for life outside of hydrogen

"The idea of alternative biochemistries for life is common in science fiction," said Carl Pilcher, director of the NASA Astrobiology Institute at the agency's Ames Research Center in Moffett Field, Calif. "Until now a life form using arsenic as a building block was only theoretical, but now we know such life exists in Mono Lake."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWAYBgl69gw

maninasia

DyldeBrill wrote: »

Just watched an excellent program on Discovery about the Nazis and their ufo technology.

The story adds up in my mind with america robbing their ideas.Everything is explained from why there were so many sightings in North America and of course America itself.

If you havnt seen it I wont ruin it, really interesting!

The Nazis couldn't even build an a-bomb and jet engines were just under development then. The Americans built their space program from the V1/2 rocket engine team though. Took them 30 years to get somebody to the moon, they are still using the same rockets basically.
There's no secret technology that the Nazis had, they didn't even have computers then..how do you think they would fly their advanced craft, with pedals?

dyer

murrayp4 wrote: »

Thread very quiet recently.
Anyone read Leslie Kean's new book?

Probably the most objective and lucid discussion I've read on the matter

havent heard about the book til now.. will keep an eye out for it thanks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J578y1bvJIU

watch on youtube for the rest of the interview.

speaking of inertia and such.. was watching something earlier and two scientists remarked..

"if a craft travelling at the speed of sound turned at a right angle in about a tenth of a second.. that would generate up to 300G's, enough to tear any known material and everything inside it completely apart."

commenting on documented ufos that accelerated to 9,000mph from rest.. "the g forces that youd experience if you did that would literally be thousands of times the force of gravity.."

wurzlitzer

Jim Corr & Ryan Turbo are aliens....anyone have any theories about this?

dyer

RichieC wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWAYBgl69gw

i agree with most of whats been said here, the claims made are quite unsubstantiated considering the evidence that has been presented. the microbes they discovered might well just be another working example of so called 'extremophiles'. it will be interesting to see how their research develops and eventually concludes. there are many examples of trace elements complementing the 6 major elements needed to sustain cellular organisms, however, there are no known prior substitutions for any of these elements needed to sustain life, which is what makes the research significant. arsenic is somewhat chemically equivaltent to phosphorus in its make up, with a near identical electronegativity value which is what contributes to its bio-toxity because the metabolic pathways intended for phosphate cannot distinguish between the two molecules. The hypothesis is that due to these similiarities the microbe somehow evolved mechanisms that allowed it to substitute phosphate with arsenate. the data derived from their analysis of the DNA showed that the As:P ratio on an atom per atom basis was significantly higher in the +As/-P versus -As/+P grown cells.

GFAJ-1 grew at an average μmax of 0.53 day-1 under +As/-P, increasing by over 20-fold in cell numbers after six days. It also grew faster and more extensively with the addition of 1.5 mM PO4 3- (-As/+P, μmax of 0.86 day-1, Fig. 1A, . However, when neither AsO4 3- nor PO43- was added, no growth was observed (Fig. 1A, . We include both optical density and direct cell counts to unambiguously demonstrate growth using two independent methods. Cells grown under +As/-P were oblong and approximately two by one microns when imaged by scanning electron microscopy (Fig 1C, 11). When grown under +As/-P conditions, GFAJ-1 cells had more than 1.5-fold greater intracellular volume (vol. ≈ 2.5 ± 0.4 μm3) as compared to -As/+P (vol. ≈ 1.5 ± 0.5 μm3) (Fig. 1D) (11). Transmission electron microscopy revealed large vacuole-like regions in +As/-P grown cells that may account for this increase in size (Fig. 1E). These experiments demonstrated arsenate-dependent growth, morphological differences in GFAJ-1 driven by AsO43- in the growth medium, and the fact that the level of PO43- impurities in the medium was insufficient to elicit growth in the control (-As/-P). Cellular stoichiometry and elemental distribution. To determine if GFAJ-1 was taking up AsO43- from the medium, we measured the intracellular As content by ICP-MS (11). In +As/-P grown cells, the mean intracellular As was 0.19 (±0.25) % by dry weight (Table 1), while the cells contained only 0.02 (± 0.01) % P by dry weight. This P was presumably scavenged from trace PO43- impurities in the reagents; and not
likely due to carryover given our enrichment and isolation strategy [see above, (11)]. Moreover, when grown +As/-P this intracellular P is 30-fold less than our measured P values for this microbe when grown -As/+P (see above) and far below the 1-3% P by dry weight required to support growth in a typical heterotrophic bacterium (13).

the data is quite interesting to say the least, but again, hardly conclusive. after reading through the ins and outs theres a bit of a sore point for me.. why this particular organism still proliferates in the presence of phosphorus itself, perhaps the organism has found a biological way of converting arsenic from its immediate surroundings into a more usable form of P (which in itself would be quite an amazing feat). anyway, its a bit off-topic, i only added the link as it related somewhat to the 'extra-terrestrial' factor of how life might have evolved elsewhere in this universe of ours.

caseyann

For me today in direction of Kildare watching three things in the sky shooting across the sky like rockets.one was black cylinder shape and others behind it looked like they were on fire.
Explain that please.

Like this,but traveling like they had engines in straight line one behind the other.

dyer

what time of day did this occur? could you give more information about your sighting eg; what direction they were travelling, approx how fast, their size relative to each other etc. what you describe sounds like rockets being jettisoned so you might want to check the nasa or european space station websites for possible launches within that time frame. typically, ufo's dont exhibit signs of trailing fire/exhaust or engines.

caseyann

dyer wrote: »

what time of day did this occur? could you give more information about your sighting eg; what direction they were travelling, approx how fast, their size relative to each other etc. what you describe sounds like rockets being jettisoned so you might want to check the nasa or european space station websites for possible launches within that time frame. typically, ufo's dont exhibit signs of trailing fire/exhaust or engines.

Hey thanks for the reply.
They were traveling towards Dublin coastline over Kildare area.They were traveling at different speeds from what i could tell but all three going in the same direction and pretty fast then slowed down and moved upwards and changed and then straightened up again and continued in direction of the coast.
One was fully black cylinder shaped and had nothing coming out of it.The other two behind it looked like that picture above but like it had no object inside it i could see.I just heard from my cousin,and he saw the same thing on his way home to Newcastle in Dublin traveling up the N7.They were in front of him traveling towards the coastline.He said there was four of them.
This is how the other two looked i saw.


And this was the one in front of them looked like to the naked eye.

It was the largest of the three i saw.
Oh and it was about 430 tis afternoon.So still daylight.

Oh and the black one going way to fast to be a balloon.

They were i would say about 3 miles apart from eachother.

dyer

very interesting! ive checked the launch schedules on the kennedy, patrick airforce base and european space agencies, but havent found anything relating to january.. they all seem to be running from feb onwards. ive observed military aircraft flying in the pattern you described before.. was the change in altitude an abrupt one, like a straight shot upwards, or more of a steady slope? a steady slope would most likely indicate military aircraft following a flight path of sorts, however the cylinder shape you mentioned is a bit of a mystery, and kinda sounds like the classic cigar shaped ufo, especially with the picture you provided.

http://www.nasa.gov/missions/highlights/schedule.html
http://nssphoenix.wordpress.com/2010/01/23/launch-schedule-2010-european-space-agency/
http://www.patrick.af.mil/
http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=35703
http://www.kennedyspacecenter.com/events-launches.aspx

caseyann

dyer wrote: »

very interesting! ive checked the launch schedules on the kennedy, patrick airforce base and european space agencies, but havent found anything relating to january.. they all seem to be running from feb onwards. ive observed military aircraft flying in the pattern you described before.. was the change in altitude an abrupt one, like a straight shot upwards, or more of a steady slope? a steady slope would most likely indicate military aircraft following a flight path of sorts, however the cylinder shape you mentioned is a bit of a mystery, and kinda sounds like the classic cigar shaped ufo, especially with the picture you provided.

http://www.nasa.gov/missions/highlights/schedule.html
http://nssphoenix.wordpress.com/2010/01/23/launch-schedule-2010-european-space-agency/
http://www.patrick.af.mil/
http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=35703
http://www.kennedyspacecenter.com/events-launches.aspx

To be honest i have seen hundreds upon hundreds of planes and jets before and you can always make an outline of a plane shape.With all three of them nothing like planes.
They did a straight up accent then straightened out and continued on in the direction they were going.
I have seen something like this before about 3 years ago and it was heading in Wicklow direction.I think a few people saw it here on boards.But what was very odd was the three together and four that my cousin said there was.
This would be a what it looked like but less smoke.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8j-KJnIhog&NR=1

And the other one like this.Except it couldn't have been a balloon of any kind because it was traveling very fast.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kL6R6dR9mQc

dyer

i wish i could tell you what it was, your guess is probably as good as mine sounds to me like a cigar shaped ufo but im not sure what the other objects were.

ive been watching some interesting vids here displaying orbs and morphing ufos ..
http://www.youtube.com/user/seeingUFOsPA#g/u

caseyann

dyer wrote: »

i wish i could tell you what it was, your guess is probably as good as mine sounds to me like a cigar shaped ufo but im not sure what the other objects were.

ive been watching some interesting vids here displaying orbs and morphing ufos ..
http://www.youtube.com/user/seeingUFOsPA#g/u

There are some weird stuff in that link.

I found this one.I find it the oddest of most of them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek1wM1nRmME&feature=related

Morphing into a plane.

dyer

weird stuff indeed, i hadnt heard about ufo's mimicking our aircraft until recently. in the video you linked above you could argue that the apparent morphing is a result of the perspective of the observer as it travels towards them but i cant say ive ever seen it to that degree, there is nearly always some detail visible, like the tail or the nose etc.

heres another one .. very strange engine on the left wing, plane appears to have no windows.. the back of each wing seem to have lights on them which dont feature on normal aircraft as far as im aware..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_vq5rIeyeE

maninasia

caseyann wrote: »

There are some weird stuff in that link.

I found this one.I find it the oddest of most of them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek1wM1nRmME&feature=related

Morphing into a plane.

It's not 'morphing', it is changing the relative angle to the observer as it flies past, so you can continuously see different parts of the plane. Ever see a train go past you, to be honest this is child's stuff.

murrayp4

maninasia wrote: »

It's not 'morphing', it is changing the relative angle to the observer as it flies past, so you can continuously see different parts of the plane. Ever see a train go past you, to be honest this is child's stuff.

Agreed, whereas there may be a genuine phenomenon in ufos, this kind of guff is an easy target for anyone with an ounce of sense.