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UFO's - what do you believe?
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I'm not saying it's right or wrong, or real or fake, but how about a UFO incident from January of this year, recorded by four independent witnesses, all from different angles? This was witnessed over Jerusalem on 27th January 2011...
Camera men one & two are beside eachother...
One & Two snycd
Video Three
Video Four
Three of them snycd
Above Top Secret has examined this in great length and it is a hoax unfortunately0 -
question is, why the feck do ppl waste their time with this crap when there is so much legitimate information out there.. then again.. wtf do people write a virus eh.. tis the scourge of the internet i guess
so one video gets proven as a hoax, and the subject is a joke and point of reference for skeptics all over again.. makes perfect sense.0 -
Ok....having read through this thread ... I'd like to offer my 2cents,
I am quite an open-minded chappie - aint we all... I do sincerely believe that there are things that are seen, that cannot be explained rationally, either down to our limitation and understanding or that we're too wrapped up in ourselves to take note of what's going on...
The video footages in the previous posting above, interesting... but... this is where things could get skewed, "oh... there's an anti-christ coming"... ffs
Look at it more objectively and think, "Are events throughout human history being influenced by the UFO's in ways we do not comprehend nor understand"... the vulnerability of governments is inherently shown when they dismiss the stories of UFO's as if to say "Yeah, we are pretty secured and so is our airspace" - they do not want to admit that there WAS a breach in airspace but cannot say nor prove... sure they can send out jet fighters to find out just wtf was that...
Another possibility, our technology are not exactly up to snuff to be able to work out what it is, sure we have beowolf clusters, super crays, etc... but the irony is the technology is hampered by our limitation in understanding, if we were able to build technology on the premise of being open-minded, then maybe the technology can tell us what's out there...
Either way, we are definitely not alone, for fcuk sake, I pointed out in a thread titled "Strange but interesting facts" about light years.. the harsh and cold reality is, there's gazillions upon bazillions of galaxies out there, that are in terms of magnitude, billions, trillions, quadrillions, sextillions (ok I made the last one up) of LIGHT YEARS away, and we are a primitive race (despite the brouhaha down the years, technologies, wars etc... you name it).
And yet, we do not have the capabilites of WARP drive (ok, taking a leaf from star trek which I
), despite Richard Branson offering tickets to space that is only attainable by the upper echelons of society who can afford it...
So I say, be open-minded.... and do not treat things as if people are crackpots, or have been smoking from a bong pipe... which is what exactly the governments are doing - silencing and oppressing the real truth... by coming out with a "official statement that its a weather balloon" ffs, we're not stupid, but we're being made to feel stupid by those in power....0 -
I'm not going to blind you with science....because I cant!! ,I'm not going to post any pictures,video's or links to try confirm or debunk what others put out there.
I'm just going to have my t'upence worth as it's an area that's facinated,intrigued,baffled and provoked me over the years,many of us from when we were kids have been intrigued by space,looking toward the stars in wonder & awe,sure it was those very feelings that sent man to space,our continued drive to search & explore further & deeper into the cosmos.
So,on that note.....
I think it's pompous of us to believe we are the only planet in the infinity of space that harbours intelligent life,I also think it's very presumptous of us to believe we're actually indigenous to this planet,evolution? I queston it,Darwins theory? I dont buy it,Theology? too exclusive,Science? a muddle of theories,facts & distortion,I've never seen a UFO but thats not to say I don't (or do) believe in ETILF's...none of us have ever seen God but blindly unwaveringly believe (or dont) in him....I believe we may never know for certain (atleast not in any of our lifetimes) if there are ET's out there,watching,visiting,checking back whatever,atleast not unless it was to come to pass like a scene from a Hollywood blockbuster,sure if it was to come about in more discreet ways we couldnt trust the powers that be to tell us the truth, personally I look at things around us here on this beautiful planet we call ours and it baffles me, things like the Egyptians, the Inca's,The Astecs,The Myans,The Inuits and most other ancient natives how they had such a vast knowledge of the stars,from their writings and drawings to their buildings, jeez their buildings alone have to make you wonder, Pyramids built in perfect formation,an amazing feat in anyones eyes when you think here we are thousands of years later unable to determine or replicate how exactly these were built,structures aligned not only with each other but on the same lay lines on opposite sides of the world and with the stars above, drawings at these places depicting almost identical images,drawings by races/cultures so detached from each other geographically, even in the bibles of today there are passages that refer to out of this world visitations,we assume we are "Intelligent" yet we've barely scratched the surface of our own genetics,we use a small percentage of our brain (obviously we use 100% mechanically but I mean as in our potential), None of us (outside of the elite in governments,science,astronomy -NASA etc ,and even then they know little more than us average joes) really have any clue as to what is,isn't may or may not be out there,what immediate treat if any that we as a species are facing,the Dec 2012 apocolyptic date has been talked about for decades,here we are not too far from the date and look at the state the world is in today,ice caps melting,continents experiencing climatic changes theyve never had before,sea levels apparently rising & sea temps increasing...are these all solely mankinds doing or are there other influences? as we all know the cycle of Earth & the moon determines tidal cycles, the earths orbit of the sun determines the seasonal changes.Could it be there are cosmological forces at play? the theory of Nibiru? Planet X? Like I said earlier,I dont think (and certainly hope) that anything like Armageddon will happen in our lifetime but I do believe we're heading towards it,maybe we're just unfortunate to be around at the end of this planets lifespan,maybe we've just enough time to "jump ship" and head off into infinity in search of our next stop,after all it's my belief we only got here after leaving the last place we made a mess of before it went BANG!
Right,I'll leave it there
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question is, why the feck do ppl waste their time with this crap when there is so much legitimate information out there.. then again.. wtf do people write a virus eh.. tis the scourge of the internet i guess
so one video gets proven as a hoax, and the subject is a joke and point of reference for skeptics all over again.. makes perfect sense.
There's not really any point to look at videos on youtube...they are a waste of space. Even videos that haven't been tampered with are usually of bugs, planes, balloons, secret military aircraft etc. Even famous cases are odds on to be military related (Phoenix Lights was probably flares and then a separate stealth blimp/triangle in the vicinity, the Belgian UFO flap was probably the same stealth blimp/triangle in operation with radar jamming technology).
Some older photos might be genuine.
In reality, it seems, if some UFOs really are ET in origin, they have some capacity to avoid electronic devices or camoflauge themselves. They may also be able literally to mess with our minds (as has been reported on numerous occasions, I don't believe in the abduction phenonomena but they may induce memory loss in witnesses, I think reports of abductions are simply from suggestions of hypnotists/other people later and the brain just fills in the missing blanks). Otherwise it is hard to account for the many legitimate sounding sightings but lack of any corroborating footage. It also wouldn't be hard for an advanced civilisation to detect the presence of electronics. The main way they may stay out of our way is simply not visiting populated places.0 -
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I havent checked these out yet myself.so for anyone interested here you go
http://www.allnewsweb.com/page1199999489.php
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDr5OF1c3ZA&feature=player_embedded
http://www.allnewsweb.com/page1199999488.php0 -
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It seems to me that the only reasonable stance to take on UFO's is an agnostic one. I'm personally of a scientific bent and try to make decision in my life and judge things on an evaluation of evidence and a determination of plausibilty.
thats a reasonable stance to take.. but if you ever happen to witness a UFO up close then you might start to realise perhaps all these things people are accounting for might not be a load of crap after all.. mind you, some of it is, i dont doubt that at all.
i dont know if agnosticism really suits the purpose you intended it for.. as these are functional craft that exist most certainly, in reality. that has nothing todo with faith. whether we refuse to acknowledge it or not doesn't change the fact. personally, i find it harder to believe that they are man made than i do the notion of them being extraterrestrial.. and thats not just because i like to blindly believe it.. i have seen them for myself, and that experience conjures up a range of emotions.. from awe, fascination and curiousity, to a sense of fear and confusion.. these things are not supposed to exist afterall?
there's really not one shred of evidence that already does exist that will change your mind unless you happen to witness something of this phenomenon for yourself. if your father told you a story, and you knew he would never lie to you about something like that, would you believe him? many of the most hardended skeptics have been converted through proper research and their own experiences. at least now there are reputable sources coming forward who are willing to extract fact from fantasy in this field of study.All of the guff you see on the internet, be it pics, video or witness accounts is almost certainly entirely fabricated.
sry but i disagree with this statement entirely, the chances that 100% of all documented evidence is entirely fabricated is rather.. unlikely. the chances you're just looking at the wrong evidence, is greater.
we are really quite infantile in our understanding of the universe.. each time we take one step forward in cosmology we tend to take two steps back in another. how many theories are there atm about the big bang? the no big bang? inflation theory? string theory? a universe born from black holes? universes that will collapse.. universes that wont? emerging theories that suggest something before the big bang? dark energy? dark matter? quarks? dimensions? the theory of everything? we havent a foggy notion.. but we'll never get anywhere by assuming we do.
last and least.. if this technology, these extraordinary machines people are seeing, are indeed actual man made vehicles.. what purpose would it serve to keep it shrouded in such mystery most of the world doubt their existence at all? its akin to discovering nuclear fission and keeping it to yourself.
i really cant pretend to know whats happening no more than anyone else can.. but i find it really, really, reaaaaaaaaaally sad, that very intelligent people will sit back and dismiss everything that is happening and choose to live in their little existential bubbles, than to acknowledge, that there is something going on here... but how can you fault anyone? we grew up with these stories, and they were always the stuff of fiction.. its going to take more than a leap of faith for people to realise its actually real.
so there goes another chinese lantern.. (go back to sleep america)
ps. sry, i edit my posts alot
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i totally respect the direction you are coming from wobytide and believe it or not, we share similiar views. i dont feel belittled or threatened whatsoever, i enjoy a good debate as long as its intelligent. afterall, there always exists a possibility that i might be wrong in my beliefs and im willing to accept that.
it's kind of difficult to apply occam's razor to a subject that is rarely taken seriously in it's own right, the biggest problem being obviously, that so far no tangible physical evidence exists to examine in the first place. video photage by and large fails us completely and the pictures are rarely good enough. in the end, all we really have is the witness accounts of people who are sharing their collective experiences. at the moment, the best we can do is trust the information revealed to us through credible sources.. but who are we trying to convince afterall?
when i began this journey through my own experiences, i must admit i was quite overwhelmed with the amount of information that's out there. it's easy to get caught up in the madness of it and maybe in this sense occam's rule might well apply! it is best to keep things simple, especially in a subject as precarious as this, you need to rely on your common sense and intuition. i wouldn't and don't expect anyone to ever believe in anything i've said unless they were standing right beside me and saw it for themselves, but i can relate to people who have described similiar things in other parts of the world because of it, and i certainly have a more open mind to other peoples experiences as a result.
our current understanding of the universe is quite well developed in many ways.. and yet worlds apart in others. we still miss some fundamental ingredients. most of the aforementioned theories do work remarkably well, indeed there are also more ways than one to bake a cake (certainly that is one problem that exists with computer models) but really i was just pointing out half hazardly that our scientific knowledge is somewhat more like a patchwork quilt, and not the be all end all some profess it to be.. we still have much to learn.
as maninasia pointed out, the triangle phenomenon still occurs to this day. the most interesting cases im aware of being the phoenix lights, the incidents in belgium and a more recent sighting in san diego. if you're interested, there is a documentary here about the belgian sightings : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4JsPSKYypk and another relating to the phoenix lights : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiwSGbW7QYU there are certainly many, many more sightings from around the world if you dig a bit deeper.
one night a few years ago, as i observed two 'orb' ufo's, one of them shot a beam of light directly into my eyes.. i can only describe it as a laser of sorts, the strangest thing (apart from me saying this;) was that it didn't light anything in the vicinity, it didn't blind me in the least, and i was shrouded in complete darkness in the afterhours of a quiet crystal clear night in the country side. the only thing i could tell myself at the time was that it was a helicopter, but i was shaken because i knew with all certainty that it wasn't. there was no noise whatsoever, the two objects traversed the sky like ping pong balls performing absolutely incredible maneuvers before zipping off into space faster than any shooting star you've ever seen. the funny thing is, i never heard of anything like this again until a good time later while watching the film 'easy rider' .. after they picked up jack nicholson they stopped at a camp fire and he began to tell them a story about a ufo, what he'd said was almost identical to that experience. the only other time i came across anything like it was a case i read in one of the reports contained in the english national archives.
if something like that happened to you, you would logically, undoubtedly question it, and possibly everything you thought you knew about ufo's. i have had many chance encounters, why me and not you? who knows? perhaps i like to spend more time looking at the night sky than most people? anyhow, as i iterated before, i'm not here to spread any gospel truth about any of this or to convince anyone of anything.. i just know i've been fortunate enough to have some extraordinary experiences and the scientist in me, wants to know what they are..0 -
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what i find most interesting are sightings that predate manned flight.
a case appeared in the 'St. Louis Democrat, Oct. 19, 1865' in which a man named john lumley who saw a ufo fly over him and crash into the forest.Lumley was about 175 miles above the Upper Missouri in Great Falls Montana. He was on his way back to his camp site when he saw a “bright luminous body in the heavens.” It went rapidly into an eastern direction and was plainly visible for about five seconds. As it flew Lumley saw it burst into an explosion in the sky and he later heard an explosion. It was shortly followed by a strong wind through the forest like a tornado, and the event left the air smelling like sulfur.
The next day, after walking two miles, he saw a path “several rods wide” made through the forest. He followed the path and discovered an object or rather a stone on the side of the mountain. What was unusual about this stone is that it had strange hieroglyphics and glass in it.
you can see the original clipping and other information relating to it here.
In April of 1897, people in five Midwestern states reported various accounts of an oblong shape in the sky. The accounts were reported from April 5th to April 19th.
The first recorded sighting was in Omaha Nebraska where more than 100 people witnessed the appearance of a flying object more than 12 feet long. It was shiny and made of steel. The object became so luminous that the brightness awoke people from their sleep.
a russian document was discovered, apparently written in 1808 describing an apparent ufo over the kremlin, it was accompanied with a sketch seen below.
Moscow daily Komsomolskaya Pravda publishes a document from a personal archive that tells of a UFO spotted over Kremlin back in 1808. “I found this document in the personal archive of a Moscow senator Peter Poludensky, who worked for the Tsar’s Secret Service and died in the middle of XIX century. Apparently the manuscript attracted his attention for some reason,” says Alexander Afanasyev, an expert of the Russian State History Museum, department of manuscripts.
“Ufology is really not my area, but I am determined that the manuscript describes a UFO.”
“Radiance Over the Kremlin”
“On September, 1, 1808, at 8 o’clock and 7 minutes in the afternoon, in the sky, clear and sown with stars, a phenomenon appeared, incomparable in its beauty and rigor, as well as in radiance and enormous size, to anything seen before. As we noticed it, attracted by the loud cracking sound, it was rising in an arch over the horizon, from 55’ to almost 90’. Having passed this distance in an instant, it stopped among the clouds as if over the Kremlin and looked like a long straight plate some nine arshin (6.35 meter) long and half arshin (0.35 meter) thick.
Then on its front edge, turned to the South-West, an oval flame flared, some two arshin (1.4 meter) long and one and a half arshin (1.4 meter) thick, with a flame that can only be compared to the radiance of burning phosphor.
Floating in a circle without open fire or sparkle, it nonetheless lighted everything around as broad daylight; then the flame went out, the light disappeared, but the bright plate remained and quite smoothly went perpendicularly upwards, reached the stars and still could be seen for some two minutes and then, without disappearing, it became invisible due to the extraordinary height.”
Indeed, the mysterious object described bears resemblance to modern UFOs descroptions by its ability to stop and start off abruptly, radiating light, regular shape. However, Afanasyev rules out the possibility of the manuscript being a fake.
“Impossible. The manuscript is written on authentic paper, produced in 1805. The spelling and the style obviously belong to the beginning of XIX century, and the author must have been an educated person, probably a Moscow State University professor, since the University is just across the street from the Kremlin.”
for those interested in the theory of ancient astronauts, theres a good interview here with a certain 'John McPherson, Assoc. Professor, Dept. of Human and Molecular Genetics, Texas' about junk DNA and current theories relating to our understanding (or lack of) the human genome.
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_adn07.htm0 -
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thanks maninasia, appreciate your opinion (as ever).. and certainly, in the case of mr lumley.. you could well be right, but the information is so scarce and the facts so scattered you could take either side of the fence. could crystal formations look like hieroglyphs to someone? of course they could. if he was uneducated.. but these are assumptions.. if he actually described them as hieroglyphs, we could also presume he might have known what hieroglyphs look like, and they are quite unlike formations of crystal or glass etc.. they are entirely something different.. something tangible.
in the rendlesham forest incident, one of the main observers who purportedly got so close that he actually touched a craft and was able to sketch the symbols he had seen, and also described them as hieroglyphs.. doesnt actually suggest that they were exactly like hieroglyphs imo.. more like symbols or characters with some kind of artistic expression that reminded him of that.. how else can you describe things the world has never seen except by association? im sure mr. adams could step in here and do better than i ever could.. in fact im sure he has im just too drunk to rem
largely.. i guess, for all those people who point their fingers toward secret military aircraft etc, how can they explain these occurences that have happened before the wright brothers ever left the ground.. before people even KNEW it was ever possible.. that they would describe such similiar things in the sky as people are seeing today. if that's not proof enough, what is?
ps.. i dont offer links/info as critical proof.. merely curiosities.. especially with regard to that junk dna stuff, it happened to be with a man who is quite reputable in his field, and rare enough that someone with his credentials would entertain such ideas idealogically and respectfully in the first place, so in that that respect i thought it was worthwhile 0 -
a mate passed this link on to me just there.. whether its a load of bull or not is anyone's guess
http://www.johnsearlstory.com/trailer3.html0 -
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0lEqR1Oy3I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAMT65z8oTI
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