Why can't White people be Proud to Be White?

digme

This is great. I have been wondering about why Whites are racists, and no other race is......
Proud to be White

Michael Richards makes his point...............
Michael Richards better known as Kramer from TVs Seinfeld does make a good point.


This was his defense speech in court after making racial comments in his comedy act. He makes some very interesting points...


Someone finally said it. How many are actually paying attention to this? There are African Americans, Mexican Americans, Asian Americans, Arab Americans, etc.

And then there are just Americans. You pass me on the street and sneer in my direction. You call me 'White boy,' 'Cracker,' 'Honkey,' 'Whitey,' 'Caveman'... And that's OK...


But when I call you, ******, Kike, Towel head, Sand-******, Camel Jockey, Beaner, Gook, or Chink .. You call me a racist.


You say that whites commit a lot of violence against you... So why are the ghettos the most dangerous places to live?


You have the United Negro College Fund. You have Martin Luther King Day.


You have Black History Month. You have Cesar Chavez Day.


You have Yom Hashoah. You have Ma'uled Al-Nabi.


You have the NAACP. You have BET.... If we had WET (White Entertainment Television), we'd be racists. If we had a White Pride Day, you would call us racists.


If we had White History Month, we'd be racists.


If we had any organization for only whites to 'advance' OUR lives, we'd be racists.


We have a Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, a Black Chamber of Commerce, and then we just have the plain Chamber of Commerce.. Wonder who pays for that??


A white woman could not be in the Miss Black American pageant, but any color can be in the Miss America pageant.


If we had a college fund that only gave white students scholarships... You know we'd be racists.


There are over 60 openly proclaimed Black Colleges in the US . Yet if there were 'White colleges', that would be a racist college.


In the Million Man March, you believed that you were marching for your race and rights. If we marched for our race and rights, you would call us racists.


You are proud to be black, brown, yellow and orange, and you're not afraid to announce it. But when we announce our white pride, you call us racists.


You rob us, carjack us, and shoot at us. But, when a white police officer shoots a black gang member or beats up a black drug dealer running from the law and posing a threat to society, you call him a racist.


I am proud... But you call me a racist.


Why is it that only whites can be racists??


There is nothing improper about this e-mail.. Let's see which of you are proud enough to send it on. I sadly don't think many will. That's why we have LOST most of OUR RIGHTS in this country. We won't stand up for ourselves!


BE PROUD TO BE WHITE!


It's not a crime YET... But getting very close!

It is estimated that ONLY 5% of thosereaching this point in this e-mail, will pass it on.

So I feel there is a movement to chastise white people.I'm sure anyone reading this will agree with most of the points made no matter what your race.
So the white race in America and other multicultural places are treated differently and are made to feel guilty.

jayteecork

White people, and in particular white males, are always fair game.

Remember there was a shirt doing the rounds a few years ago "boys are stupid, throw rocks at them". Half the girls in my college had it.

Now trade boys with "blacks, girls, arabs, chinese, gays" and imagine the uproar.

Maybe it's because white males have the character to laugh off anything without going OTT and pointing the sexist/racist/homophobic finger whilst creating an agenda.

But I don't see how this discussion ended up in Conspiracy Theories.

Undergod

I think anyone being proud of their race/gender/nationality is a bit strange. It's something I had nothing to do with, it's entirely accidental.

I'm not proud of my background. I am what I was born as, and I don't hate it, it's just a fact.

Maybe it boils down to the fact that for a decent chunk of history, it's been straight white males oppressing anyone not of that description (an oversimplification in a lot of ways, of course). Thus, while black power/gay pride/whatever movement is a means of redressing the balance and empowering people who may be disadvantaged because of their background, white power is often closely associated with racism, and because straight white males are already seen to be privileged, it does not and cannot serve the same purpose.

I don't entirely agree with this view of things, but I can appreciate the argument behind it. Ideally, I would like to live in a functionally raceless society.

RGDATA!

digme wrote: »

This is great. I have been wondering about why Whites are racists, and no other race is......
Proud to be White

Michael Richards makes his point...............
Michael Richards better known as Kramer from TVs Seinfeld does make a good point.


This was his defense speech in court after making racial comments in his comedy act. He makes some very interesting points...

Michael Richards didn't say any of that stuff, it wasn't his defense speech in court, so bad start. It's a chain email, just basic incitement and dumb logic.

It doesn't mention holidays like columbus day, st patrick's day or thanksgiving, or all the irish-american, italian-american groups and societies there are. There might not be White Entertainment Television, but there's sure as hell Country Music Television. It mentions "you have Ma'uled Al-Nabi" but i don't think that's as popular as Christmas in the US just yet.

bunch of nonsense, falsely attributed to someone who never said it.

amacachi

I strongly doubt that many middle-class black Americans go around calling white people "cracker" or "honkey". Also that e-mail is bull****.

Brown Bomber

digme wrote: »

But when I call you, ******, Kike, Towel head, Sand-******, Camel Jockey, Beaner, Gook, or Chink .. You call me a racist.

A racist freemason?? Knight Commander of the Court of Honour no less, Haha, never!



Doubt he'd be calling anyone kike anyway, he considers himself Jewish.

PirateShampoo

biko

I don't see a particular reason to be proud that I'm white.
It's not like it was an achievement or anything.
I'm just glad I was born in a privileged society.
Is it ok if I'm "glad to be privileged"?

fontanalis

You mean peachy pink.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/proudwhite.asp

Don't answer emails form Nigerian Princes and stay away from SF.

Torakx

PirateShampoo wrote: »

der dook er duurr!!! LOL love southpark recently watched them all a couple times now haha

I guess the subject of racism isnt a simple one.In a land occupied by predominantly white people i would imagine the logical outcome would be that the minority is ostrasized(probably spelled wrong :P).
In America the minority took a serious beat down for a long time because of being black.I believe when you encounter something that takes a piece of you in a negative way the best way to overcome it is to embrace the thing that is being done to you and use it as a positive force to overcome it.This is the only way i am still standing today because of previous hardships.
If i went to another country where everyone was dark skinned with me being light skinned i think i would be set apart from everyone and i would be treated differently.What i would do i guess is embrace my difference and see it in a positive light,like i would be very unique without having to dress crazy to get that effect.

As for white parades i think the main ones remembered had nazi swastikas on the flags.
That is probably the main stereo type for embracing white skin.
I personally think everyone should be proud of themselves not a collective anything.
And last of all i think that the people organising these sanctioned parades for whatever skin colour or culture do not have the correct motives or guidance behind them.
You might try make a parade to celebrate being white but closed minds and archetypes of white power will be obstacles in your way.
Reminds me now of that movie Clerks 2.
If anyone has watched it they will know what im talking about and probably laugh too
Its has one scene with a light hearted but crude look at racism in america and explains my point fairly well i think about archetypes and peoples instinctive reaction to mere verbal ques despite good intentions.

dlofnep

People aren't proud of their colour.

They are proud of what they overcame, because of their colour.

For black people, it was civil inequality. For Jewish people, it was a holocaust. Etc... Where people are oppressed, they will always come together and be proud of what they overcame as a people.

So - when whites are persecuted for being white - then we can talk. But I don't ever remember being persecuted in Ireland for being white - so I've no reason to be proud for being white. I am proud to be Irish - for what we have overcome as a people - but I am not proud to be Irish, just for the sake of being Irish.

That e-mail is a load of nonsense, and doesn't take into account the basic mindset of an oppressed people.

Sparticle

We should be proud of things we have achieved not circumstance.

KrazeeEyezKilla

Straight White Men are the least oppressed people in the world. Trying to take trivial issues like Black History Month and a TV station having the word black in it's name and blowing them out of proportion shows that. Black or Hispanic pride isn't the same as White Pride as it's usually not claiming to be superior to other races, it's saying that they are not inferior.

Flamed Diving

dlofnep wrote: »

People aren't proud of their colour.

They are proud of what they overcame, because of their colour.

For black people, it was civil inequality. For Jewish people, it was a holocaust. Etc... Where people are oppressed, they will always come together and be proud of what they overcame as a people.

So - when whites are persecuted for being white - then we can talk. But I don't ever remember being persecuted in Ireland for being white - so I've no reason to be proud for being white. I am proud to be Irish - for what we have overcome as a people - but I am not proud to be Irish, just for the sake of being Irish.

That e-mail is a load of nonsense, and doesn't take into account the basic mindset of an oppressed people.

It's a pseudo-racist ignorant tantrum, and nothing more.

Mahatma coat

TBH I think the replys in this thread reinfrces the OP

getz

Mahatma coat wrote: »

TBH I think the replys in this thread reinfrces the OP

i do not think everything is as black and white as you make out

Rowley Birkin QC

digme wrote: »

Someone finally said it. How many are actually paying attention to this? There are African Americans, Mexican Americans, Asian Americans, Arab Americans, etc.

And then there are just Americans.

Nope, there are also European-Americans.

dlofnep

For the record - that article is nonsense. http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/proudwhite.asp

Michael Richards did not say any of that. It is used by white-supremacists to get celebrities known for making apologetic racist outbursts as a way to endorse their views. But he never said any of that.

I hope the OP is happy that he has been used as a perfect pawn for the white nationalist community.

getz

Rowley Birkin QC wrote: »

Nope, there are also European-Americans.

there is irish americans,italian americans,but no english americans

Undergod

getz wrote: »

there is irish americans,italian americans,but no english americans

WASPs is usually the term. Applies to English- and German-Americans. German-Americans are actually the largest ethnic group in the states, I think.

Torakx

dlofnep wrote: »

For the record - that article is nonsense. http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/proudwhite.asp

Michael Richards did not say any of that. It is used by white-supremacists to get celebrities known for making apologetic racist outbursts as a way to endorse their views. But he never said any of that.

I hope the OP is happy that he has been used as a perfect pawn for the white nationalist community.

I wouldnt see it that extreme although possibly true.
After all it is only a discussion about the subject.Im sure thats where it would end with the op and everyone here.

digme

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=65926647&postcount=15

actual real life example in Ireland.

fontanalis

Mahatma coat wrote: »

TBH I think the replys in this thread reinfrces the OP

He fell for the BS email not everyone else.

profitius

dlofnep wrote: »

People aren't proud of their colour.

They are proud of what they overcame, because of their colour.

For black people, it was civil inequality. For Jewish people, it was a holocaust. Etc... Where people are oppressed, they will always come together and be proud of what they overcame as a people.

So - when whites are persecuted for being white - then we can talk. But I don't ever remember being persecuted in Ireland for being white - so I've no reason to be proud for being white. I am proud to be Irish - for what we have overcome as a people - but I am not proud to be Irish, just for the sake of being Irish.

That e-mail is a load of nonsense, and doesn't take into account the basic mindset of an oppressed people.

That post is full of contradictions.

You say you are proud to be Irish for what we have overcome as a people. What about all the things White people have contributed to the world? Unfortunatly people are brainwashed into thinking White people have generally done bad. Thats a very limited view of history and it also is an indicator of a persons state of mind.

People are also brainwashed into thinking anyone who is proud of their race automatically hates other races. Once again utter nonsense. Its like saying if you're proud to be Irish you hate all other non Irish.

Anyone who reacted negatively to the OP's post need to ask themselves why they had that reaction.

Bodhisopha

It's a generelisation but as a race, whites have a lot to be ashamed of, historically speaking. However, as a historically oppressed people we Irish are to a large extent exempt as far as i'm concerned. Unfortunately a lot of our emigrants were quick to become racists themselves when they stepped foot on American soil.

Upon hearing of this position on the part of so many of his fellow countrymen now residing in the United States, in 1843 O'Connell wrote: "Over the broad Atlantic I pour forth my voice, saying, come out of such a land, you Irishmen; or, if you remain, and dare countenance the system of slavery that is supported there, we will recognize you as Irishmen no longer." It's a tragic story. In a letter published in the Liberator in 1854, it was stated that "passage to the United States seems to produce the same effect upon the exile of Erin as the eating of the forbidden fruit did upon Adam and Eve. In the morning, they were pure, loving, and innocent; in the evening, guilty."

digme

It's not racist to be proud of your race is it?

Undergod

Every race has done good and bad things. Most individuals alive nowadays weren't involved, so why feel any emotion about it? To me it seems like being proud of everything acheived by people of your gender, or people who share your hair colour.

In a way, being proud of your race is racist; not in the sense of having an aversion to other races, but in the sense of making distinctions according to race.

caseyann

Undergod wrote: »

WASPs is usually the term. Applies to English- and German-Americans. German-Americans are actually the largest ethnic group in the states, I think.

Isn't that racist?

sbsquarepants

I'm kind of split on this one.
I don't consider myself to be racist, i have friends and aquaintances from all sorts of countries and races. I try to take people as i find them. As has been said it's not an achievement to be white, anymore than it is to be black or asian or whatever. You are what you are, that's it.
But it does annoy me when i see things like the MOBO awards (music of black origin), not because i think there should be a WOBO or anyththing but just because it's plain stupid and insulting to everybody in my opinion. I just don't understand the mindset of a musician that would be delighted to be told, that's the best song of the year - but only for a black man!
Has the hollow ring of a concillation prize to me.
If we want equality, which i really do, then we have to stop all this proud to be black, proud to be white bulls'hit - It's not like a single one of us chose our colour. So why are we so hung up on it?

Undergod

caseyann wrote: »

Isn't that racist?

Not sure what you mean.

As in, is it an offensive term? I'm not sure, I don't think so.

As in, is it making a distinction based on race? Yes, it is.
But it's a distinction that does exist in reality, for whatever reason, so I wouldn't really consider it a horrendously racist thing that I'm using it for convenience's sake.

caseyann

Undergod wrote: »

Not sure what you mean.

As in, is it an offensive term? I'm not sure, I don't think so.

As in, is it making a distinction based on race? Yes, it is.
But it's a distinction that does exist in reality, for whatever reason, so I wouldn't really consider it a horrendously racist thing that I'm using it for convenience's sake.

It is a label eradicating their ancestral routes by not referring to them as Anglo Americans?.Also isn't it a term used by people who didn't like them.Like they did paddies and bog Irish,Fenian,

I don't think should be allowed.

caseyann

digme wrote: »

It's not racist to be proud of your race is it?

It is if you are white lol

ordinary_girl

I understand what you mean by being tarred with the racist brush if you get into an argument with someone who's foreign or if you say anything about them. Additionally, there is no white history month because, let's face it, most of the other history taught in the US is to do with white people. I personally find black history very interesting.

In short, I disagree with almost everything in that e-mail you posted. It seems to be promoting racism, if anything.

caseyann

Rest_Energy wrote: »

I understand what you mean by being tarred with the racist brush if you get into an argument with someone who's foreign or if you say anything about them. Additionally, there is no white history month because, let's face it, most of the other history taught in the US is to do with white people. I personally find black history very interesting.

In short, I disagree with almost everything in that e-mail you posted. It seems to be promoting racism, if anything.

Black history in western countries?

Personally i much rather European and American history .
I also find white African history very interesting:rolleyes:

bonkey

caseyann wrote: »

Isn't that racist?

Its descriptive.

White Anglo-Saxon Protestant.

As for the notion of "white pride"...its a counter-reaction to other "pride" movements, which themselves exist a a counter-reaction to people being made feel ashamed for whatever it is they are being oppressed for, experiencing bigotry for, etc.

In essence, it is an attempt to hijack and redefine the concept of "pride" as it has traditionally been used in the counter-examples...to convince people that its usage is not about overthrowing oppression or standing against bigotry.

Whether you see that as a deliberate attempt to put the oppressed back in their place, or as a perfectly reasonable counter-reaction in that we should all be proud....that's up to you.

It would seem, however, that the only conspiracy here is the one related to the claim that the commetary in the OP is mis-attributed.

fontanalis

White pride, sure because white people have treated each other so good over the years. Anyone who believes white supremacists truly think all white people are equal is a moron. Something will be dragged up to differentiate, be it religion or natioanlity or species. No Dogs, No blacks, no Irish.

caseyann

Bodhisopha wrote: »

It's a generelisation but as a race, whites have a lot to be ashamed of, historically speaking. However, as a historically oppressed people we Irish are to a large extent exempt as far as i'm concerned. Unfortunately a lot of our emigrants were quick to become racists themselves when they stepped foot on American soil.

What are you talking about?
I have nothing to feel ashamed of as a white woman,certainly nothing to do with me what happened in the past.
And i dont have one shred of guilt in my body for anything a white man or woman did lol

We as a race have alot more to be proud of

White man evil

storm2811

Why would we be proud to white?
We haven't overcome anything as a race,wheras black people have overcome oppression and slavery,which they are proud of,they aren't proud to be black?
That e-mail sounds like a bunch of crap imo,don't know why someone would make it unless they weren't happy with people having black history month,martin luther king day, and other races traditions & celebrations etc etc..soo a bit racist really..

profitius

storm2811 wrote: »

Why would we be proud to white?
We haven't overcome anything as a race,wheras black people have overcome oppression and slavery,which they are proud of,they aren't proud to be black?
That e-mail sounds like a bunch of crap imo,don't know why someone would make it unless they weren't happy with people having black history month,martin luther king day, and other races traditions & celebrations etc etc..soo a bit racist really..

You have been brainwashed by the media propaganda!

Look around you. You're using a computer, on the internet, you're in a warm building, you travel by car, train, plane etc etc. I could be here all day talking about the technological advances made by White people.

Most world wide charities are run by.... yes those evil White people!

Its sad that people can only see the bad things White people have done. Slavery is a good example. Nothing is ever said about the Black slave owners, Asian slave owners etc. You can be sure alot of those in slaverly would have owned slaves too given the oppertunity!

White people overcame difficulties too. Our ancestors had to survive in a cold and wet enviornment. Europe was not a tropical paradice.

All I'll say is to stop believing everything in the media. The media love to make people believe they have it bad. Most Irish think like that these days even though we're living in a world of luxury compared to the past.

storm2811

profitius wrote: »

You have been brainwashed by the media propaganda!

Look around you. You're using a computer, on the internet, you're in a warm building, you travel by car, train, plane etc etc. I could be here all day talking about the technological advances made by White people.

Most world wide charities are run by.... yes those evil White people!

Its sad that people can only see the bad things White people have done. Slavery is a good example. Nothing is ever said about the Black slave owners, Asian slave owners etc. You can be sure alot of those in slaverly would have owned slaves too given the oppertunity!

White people overcame difficulties too. Our ancestors had to survive in a cold and wet enviornment. Europe was not a tropical paradice.

All I'll say is to stop believing everything in the media. The media love to make people believe they have it bad. Most Irish think like that these days even though we're living in a world of luxury compared to the past.

Technological advances has nothing to do with my post,and the charities run by white people are mostly for third world countries in Africa,now,these people are being given money from us for a reason,because they have none.
Do you expect people in Mali or Uganda to set up a huge charity organisation for themselves?No,but if they could,I'm sure they would,charity has nothing to do with race,nothing to do with white people giving to black people,it is about helping our fellow man with the simpliest human needs,race should never be an issue when you are helping someone in that state.

Oh no,we didn't grow up in a tropical paradise..that is surely just as bad as being a slave and being treated with no respect,or being killed because of your colour and no other reason,or being part of a genocide,what an awful fate for us..rain and snow..wow I'm so happy that we have overcome this horrible weather together as a race.

Brain washed the media?
Yes of course..I listen to everything I see on tv or read in the paper,absolutley everything!

amacachi

digme wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=65926647&postcount=15

actual real life example in Ireland.

College isn't real life as such. Just look at what the thread's about ffs.

profitius

storm2811 wrote: »

Technological advances has nothing to do with my post,

You asked what had we to be proud about. It seems we've alot of things to be proud about which people could see if they could be more positive.

and the charities run by white people are mostly for third world countries in Africa,now,these people are being given money from us for a reason,because they have none.
Do you expect people in Mali or Uganda to set up a huge charity organisation for themselves?No,but if they could,I'm sure they would,charity has nothing to do with race,nothing to do with white people giving to black people,it is about helping our fellow man with the simpliest human needs,race should never be an issue when you are helping someone in that state.

Where are all the Asian charities? I've NEVER seen a Japanese or Chinese charity in Africa for example. Theres plenty of wealthy non White people like the oil rich in the middle east. Somehow I doubt they're too charitable. China uses its own people like slaves.

Oh no,we didn't grow up in a tropical paradise..that is surely just as bad as being a slave and being treated with no respect,or being killed because of your colour and no other reason,or being part of a genocide,what an awful fate for us..rain and snow..wow I'm so happy that we have overcome this horrible weather together as a race.

Since you're talking about slaves how about you chew on this. Ever hear of Baltimore in West Cork? A few centuries ago North African pirates sailed up to Baltimore and took 200 people back to their homeland as slaves. WHITE SLAVES!!! Every country on the planet has had slaves at some point in history. You seem to be concentrating only on White people having Black slaves.

Brain washed the media?
Yes of course..I listen to everything I see on tv or read in the paper,absolutley everything!

The subconscious is alot more powerful than the conscious part of the mind and can be easily influenced. It influences the way people see things. You're a good example because you can only see a certain narrow point in history regarding slaves and you have only a negative opinion of White people. Be more positive!!

caseyann

storm2811 wrote: »

Technological advances has nothing to do with my post,and the charities run by white people are mostly for third world countries in Africa,now,these people are being given money from us for a reason,because they have none.
Do you expect people in Mali or Uganda to set up a huge charity organisation for themselves?No,but if they could,I'm sure they would,charity has nothing to do with race,nothing to do with white people giving to black people,it is about helping our fellow man with the simpliest human needs,race should never be an issue when you are helping someone in that state.

Oh no,we didn't grow up in a tropical paradise..that is surely just as bad as being a slave and being treated with no respect,or being killed because of your colour and no other reason,or being part of a genocide,what an awful fate for us..rain and snow..wow I'm so happy that we have overcome this horrible weather together as a race.

Brain washed the media?
Yes of course..I listen to everything I see on tv or read in the paper,absolutley everything!

White slaves transported to the colonies suffered a staggering loss of life in the 17th and 18th century. During the voyage to America it was customary to keep the White slaves below deck for the entire nine to twelve week journey. A White slave would be confined to a hole not more than sixteen feet long, chained with 50 other men to a board, with padlocked collars around their necks. The weeks of confinement below deck in the ship's stifling hold often resulted in outbreaks of contagious disease which would sweep through the "cargo" of White "freight" chained in the bowels of the ship.

Before British slavers traveled to Africa's western coast to buy Black slaves from African chieftains, they sold their own White working class kindred ("the surplus poor" as they were known) from the streets and towns of England, into slavery. Tens of thousands of these White slaves were kidnapped children. In fact the very origin of the word kidnapped is kid-nabbed, the stealing of White children for enslavement.
Because of the rank prostitution, stupidity and cowardice of America's teachers and educational system, White youth are taught that Black slaves, Mexican peons and Chinese coolies built this country while the vast majority of the Whites lorded it over them with a lash in one hand and a mint julep in the other.

Long after Blacks were free throughout the British Empire, the British House of Lords refused to abolish chimney-sweeping by White children under the age of ten. The Lords contended that to do so would interfere with "property rights." The lives of the White children were not worth a farthing and were considered no subject for humanitarian concern.
http://www.revisionisthistory.org/forgottenslaves.html

Long before the first Europeans set foot in Africa, native kings and chieftains had traded in slaves. There were white captives held in African slave markets, people who had been kidnapped by pirates during raids on the coasts of England, Ireland and France. These slaves were very highly valued by North African chieftains. The gold mining industry on the Gold Coast, modern-day Ghana, was also a magnet for the African slave trade, which continued long after the European nations agreed to its abolition. White slaves were still held in North Africa as late as 1626.
http://www.heretical.com/British/slavery.html

Slavery was much in evidence in the Middle East from the beginning of recorded history. It was treated as a prominent institution in the Babylonian Code of Hammurabi of c. 1750 [SIZE=-1]BC[/SIZE]. Slaves were present in ancient Egypt and are known to have been murdered to accompany their deceased owners into the afterlife. It once was believed that slaves built the great pyramids, but contemporary scholarly opinion is that the pyramids were constructed by peasants when they were not occupied by agriculture. Slaves also are mentioned prominently in the Bible among the Hebrews in Palestine and their neighbours.

Slavery was much in evidence in the Middle East from the beginning of recorded history. It was treated as a prominent institution in the Babylonian Code of Hammurabi of c. 1750 [SIZE=-1]BC[/SIZE]. Slaves were present in ancient Egypt and are known to have been murdered to accompany their deceased owners into the afterlife. It once was believed that slaves built the great pyramids, but contemporary scholarly opinion is that the pyramids were constructed by peasants when they were not occupied by agriculture. Slaves also are mentioned prominently in the Bible among the Hebrews in Palestine and their neighbours.
http://www.britannica.com/blackhistory/article-24156



I see white mans guilt oozing from your pours.
Its ok to think it was wrong and shouldn't have been done.
And i don't want a slave or treat anyone bad,but i wont be feeling guilt over something that had nothing to do with me.But if you like to remember every Race did it to their own and others!!!
The African Americans of today are not slaves!Nor any other Black of whatever nationality they come from are not slaves in the western world.
Whites over came great oppression and war and sickness together and eventually worked together.


I have no problem with feeding the children of Africa or any child.But how much longer is it going to be like that?Forever?
How many decades has charity been shipped in there and how many blacks are oppressing their own there??

Wibbs

profitius wrote: »

Since you're talking about slaves how about you chew on this. Ever hear of Baltimore in West Cork? A few centuries ago North African pirates sailed up to Baltimore and took 200 people back to their homeland as slaves. WHITE SLAVES!!! Every country on the planet has had slaves at some point in history. You seem to be concentrating only on White people having Black slaves.

True enough. Slavery in various forms has been with us for a very very long time. The Irish were well known and feared slavers before christianity took root here. Indeed St Patrick ended up here because he was taken in a slave raid from northern romano Britain. Interestingly when christianity did kick off here within a generation or two slavery died off in this country. Thanks to the st patrick guy who naturally had a bee in his bonnet about slavery. Which BTW was not the roman christian default position. Popes at the time didnt come out against the practice. The serf system in europe was basically slavery. Only coming to an end when the black death came along halved the populatin and working people could bargain for their time.

Islam had no issue with slavery either. Indeed was precise about how you should treat your slaves well, but not stop the practice. Which was a step up compared to christianity. The slave trade we think of most is the african slave trade centered on the new world. That was actually quite a short period in history. Africans helped and profited from it too. How else do people think a few whites show up and enslave 1000's. The Muslims both african and arabian helped and indeed continued long after europe got shot of slavery. Slavery still exists in pockets in africa. It arguably exists in parts of the arab world too. And it was europeans who fought against the african slave trade and finally outlawed the practice.

As for our weather? Yes that does make a difference over generations of environmental pressure. Those first Africans who came into europe 60,000 yrs ago were heros pretty much. They defo impress me.Mad fecks They faced a serious uphill struggle. They did it so well they replaced the earlier humans here. That said after the last ice age, europe was in a good position. It has a very wide range of habitats that can support many different cultures and survival techniques. This would serve to drive various technologies by necessity. Compared to say a south sea island paradise where the pressures are much less and the need to innovate less too. But not so much that the pressures mean you are constantly fighting for survival(EG polar regions or australia). All world cultures spring from the goldilocks environments. China(and east asia in general), precolumbian civilisations, india, the middle east. Also some of the african civilisations too. Indeed many of the precolumbian civilisations failed because their goldilocks environment changed and they couldnt respond to it in time.

I would agree with profitius in that we can be proud of cultural acheivement. I would add that many cultures can say the same thing. Including many in the crappy environments. The native australians spring to mind.

storm2811

Ok,I see your points,we are on completly different levels on this subject and I'm not going to debate about it because it will not change my opinion nor will it change yours.

The point I was making is that black people in America were oppressed for years and are still suffering from racist comments and threats,it happens here aswell,all too much.
But what I mean is that white people as a race have not been treated this way,yes the Irish were oppressed by the English,and yes I'm proud that we've overcome that,the same way many countries that were controlled by the Soviet Union have overcome that aswell,I'm sure they are proud of that,but as a race,I don't see what the big deal is.

There are still neo-nazis around,everywhere,trying to kill black people,jews,hispanics,everyone who isn't white pretty much,if we keep dividing people by race like this,we will never get anywhere in the world.

Yes I am proud of people that invented the telephone,computer,airplanes etc etc..
But if it was a black man or an Indian man or any other race it wouldn't matter,the people that invented these things just so happened to be white,so what?

bigeasyeah

Racism?
Whats wrong with being racy?
Ooer matron.

Wibbs

storm2811 wrote: »

Ok,I see your points,we are on completly different levels on this subject and I'm not going to debate about it because it will not change my opinion nor will it change yours.

Really? Pity. Personally I like my opinion being changed or at least made thinkt defend my opinion through debate.

The point I was making is that black people in America were oppressed for years and are still suffering from racist comments and threats,it happens here aswell,all too much.

Oh I agree. Its much worse there. Then again America is an unusual place in that its a nation based on outsiders. Lines are drawn so easily.

But what I mean is that white people as a race have not been treated this way,yes the Irish were oppressed by the English,and yes I'm proud that we've overcome that,the same way many countries that were controlled by the Soviet Union have overcome that aswell,I'm sure they are proud of that,but as a race,I don't see what the big deal is.

I would agree in the sense that we havent been singled out by skin colour(that often anyway), even though we have a long history of enslaving each other. The skin colour makes it easier to enslave or subjugate another. We will find any excuse to fight over resources. Look at our own island. Look at the north. One group will fight the other over "religion". Jonathon swift took the píss outa that notion in gullivers travels a long time ago. That was the label there. Yet we're the same "race" indeed we're identical genetically. Most came from Scotland. Scotland comes from scotia minor as it was known in the early middle ages. "Little Ireland". They speak Scots Gaelic, because of our cultural invasion in the 6th, 7th and 8th centuries. As I say any difference will be siezed upon when economics and resources come into play. Being yellow, black or white just makes it easier. I would put money that if Africa had been the "winner", being white would be considered lesser too. In many african and other cultures white is considered the colour of death or evil. Look how albinos are treated in some african cultures.

There are still neo-nazis around,everywhere,trying to kill black people,jews,hispanics,everyone who isn't white pretty much,if we keep dividing people by race like this,we will never get anywhere in the world.

I agree, but there are neo nazis in all cultures. Those who think their neighbour is lesser, because of skin colour or culture or religion or economic status. Its not a "white" thing. Not by any stretch. Hutu Tutsi massacres(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutu#Post-colonial_history_of_the_Hutu_and_Tutsi), the japanese in china back in the day etc. If we compiled a list we would be here all day. I think one reason whites are more the Nazi poster boy is because when we do it we do it more in cold blood and more coldly efficient and "lawful".

caseyann

storm2811 wrote: »

Ok,I see your points,we are on completly different levels on this subject and I'm not going to debate about it because it will not change my opinion nor will it change yours.

The point I was making is that black people in America were oppressed for years and are still suffering from racist comments and threats,it happens here aswell,all too much.
But what I mean is that white people as a race have not been treated this way,yes the Irish were oppressed by the English,and yes I'm proud that we've overcome that,the same way many countries that were controlled by the Soviet Union have overcome that aswell,I'm sure they are proud of that,but as a race,I don't see what the big deal is.

There are still neo-nazis around,everywhere,trying to kill black people,jews,hispanics,everyone who isn't white pretty much,if we keep dividing people by race like this,we will never get anywhere in the world.

Yes I am proud of people that invented the telephone,computer,airplanes etc etc..
But if it was a black man or an Indian man or any other race it wouldn't matter,the people that invented these things just so happened to be white,so what?

Is it because i am white?:D

Are you serious? Who is feeding and clothing the hungry in Africa?
Who were the people to stand up for Black people? White? And help them!
How is it if white people are proud they overcame slavery and oppression as a race not included just because its white?

I am black and i am proud?How does that equate to nationality?
Or be black be proud?
Let see if i was to say i am white and i am proud? Am i racist?

Wibbs

storm2811 wrote: »

Yes I am proud of people that invented the telephone,computer,airplanes etc etc..
But if it was a black man or an Indian man or any other race it wouldn't matter,the people that invented these things just so happened to be white,so what?

I'm proud of humanity. The brown lads invented a lot of stuff. The yellow lads? A crazy amount of stuff.

The thing about being proud of "race" is that you can only talk about populations and even there we're very inbred as a species. It gets laughable with race pride types where they claim pride for "their" races achievements. EG a white american of say scots/germanic stock pointing at ancient Greece and saying "We" did that. Eh no mate, you're not Greek and the chances are high you would call an actual Greek a wop or some such. Ditto with a Black(again usually an American) guy saying, the pyramids? 'We" did that. Eh no again Ted. You're west African in background. A good few 1000 miles from Egypt and they were brown fellas anyway. The venn diagram even overlaps a little there. African americans being actually taught in some colleges :eek: that Cleopatra was a black woman. Eh no. She was the last of the Ptolemies, she was Greek. She didnt look like Liz Taylor either. It becomes bloody ridiculous after a while.

storm2811

caseyann wrote: »

Is it because i am white?:D

Are you serious? Who is feeding and clothing the hungry in Africa?
Who were the people to stand up for Black people? White? And help them!
How is it if white people are proud they overcame slavery and oppression as a race not included just because its white?

I am black and i am proud?How does that equate to nationality?
Or be black be proud?
Let see if i was to say i am white and i am proud? Am i racist?

We are yes,but for gods sake,why should race come into account when it comes to helping people in need?People who need help will take it,no matter what their colour is,race has nothing to do with charity,it is just helping our fellow man,and race should in no way be an issue,I'm repeating myself here,another reason why I don't like to debate about these things is that I have said this before,and I could say it as much times as I want,but you wouldn't listen and just argue against it again and again and again..

Yes during the civil rights movement in America there were white people who stood up for blacks,so we should be proud of helping them as a race?I don't think so,the white people who were helping those black people were fighting for basic human rights,they didn't do it for glory or pride,but to help people who being treated terribly.

I don't care if you say if you are white and you are proud,it has nothing to do with me with what you class yourself as.

But as I said before,race shouldn't be an issue,as a race(entire human race) we should be proud that we have got this far in the world at all.

We may be white,black,asain,whatever,but are all human beings and should treat eachother as such..
(very very cheesy last line there,sorry:pac:)

caseyann

storm2811 wrote: »

We are yes,but for gods sake,why should race come into account when it comes to helping people in need?People who need help will take it,no matter what their colour is,race has nothing to do with charity,it is just helping our fellow man,and race should in no way be an issue,I'm repeating myself here,another reason why I don't like to debate about these things is that I have said this before,and I could say it as much times as I want,but you wouldn't listen and just argue against it again and again and again..

Yes during the civil rights movement in America there were white people who stood up for blacks,so we should be proud of helping them as a race?I don't think so,the white people who were helping those black people were fighting for basic human rights,they didn't do it for glory or pride,but to help people who being treated terribly.

I don't care if you say if you are white and you are proud,it has nothing to do with me with what you class yourself as.

But as I said before,race shouldn't be an issue,as a race(entire human race) we should be proud that we have got this far in the world at all.

We may be white,black,asain,whatever,but are all human beings and should treat eachother as such..
(very very cheesy last line there,sorry:pac:)

I am sorry Africans and Arabs have gotten no where in their countries they are going backwards.
If all white people left them countries which i wish they would and see how it goes from there.
Maybe it will come right and they will advance economically and culturally towards each other.
I agree there shouldn't be but only things we have in common is we are made of tissue and organs.
You go live in these third world countries with even help of other countries still are not advancing anywhere except into worse turmoil.

For example if a black man attacks a white man in our western nations the rest of the black community is safe,If a white man is a target in Arab or African nation all white men are a target in that nation.
There is alot of differences.