Brazilian Ronaldo at 20 is far more impressive than Messi at 22

CorkMan

He got 45 goals in 47 games at age 20, Messi has 45 in 52 at age 22. I was watching TV3 and they were saying Messi can become the greatest of all time.

Well he has to beat Ronaldos 15 world cup goals first. He already isn't as good as Ronaldo was at 20. Alright, Ronaldo got injured, but his international career is as close as we'll get to a reflection of a non injured Ronaldo (62 goals in 97 games for Brazil, top WC scorer, GOD DAMN!!)

Main point is: Messi is a player every decade, not every century. Ronaldo was outstanding in the 90s, now Messi in the 00's.

Melion

Messi isnt a striker????

eagle eye

Eh Ronaldo is a striker, Messi is an attacking midfielder.

syngindub

if Ronaldo avoided Injury he's would of been considered one of the greats.

eagle eye

syngindub wrote: »

if Ronaldo avoided Injury he's would of been considered one of the greats.

He is considered one of the greats.

CorkMan

I never brought up the word striker, I only said better player. Messi does play as a striker as a sometimes, you can't exactly saw he isn't attacking almost all tje time.

Melion

Ronaldo is my favourite player to ever kick a ball but to compare him and Messi is ridiculous until both have retired.

cooker3

CorkMan wrote: »

I never brought up the word striker, I only said better player. Messi does play as a striker as a sometimes, you can't exactly saw he isn't attacking almost all tje time.

Well then you probably shouldn't have used number of goals scored as your only metric in the op.

Oat23

CorkMan wrote: »

I never brought up the word striker

But you are basing your opinion on how many goals both players have scored?.

JPA

I'm just waiting for some assist stats.

Peyton Manning

JPA wrote: »

I'm just waiting for some assist stats.

Ronaldo didn't assist, he preferred scoring.

JPA

Archimedes wrote: »

Ronaldo didn't assist, he preferred scoring.

Ya, Messi likes both.

*not saying Messi is better or worse.

CorkMan

Oatesy23 wrote: »

But you are basing your opinion on how many goals both players have scored?.

but Messi is heralded for his goalscoring recorded most. He plays ahead of the midfield, wing forward/striker.

plasmaguy

Ronaldo could have been one of the greatest of all time but his career was riddled with injury and personal problems, as well as problems with his weight.

At the last world cup, you could still see glimpses of his greatness, but he'd lost his pace.

A lot of players have great short bursts in their career but sustaining it is the mark of greatness.

Peyton Manning

plasmaguy wrote: »

Ronaldo could have been one of the greatest of all time but his career was riddled with injury and personal problems, as well as problems with his weight.

Ronaldo is one of the greatest of all time, regardless of what happened. If it weren't for his injuries, he would be considered the greatest of all time bar none.

plasmaguy wrote: »

At the last world cup, you could still see glimpses of his greatness, but he'd lost his pace.

He lost his pace because of two career threatening injuries he suffered at Inter. He had to completely remodel his game after them. Before he could beat any player in the world for pace. Afterwards, he focussed more on power and being even more clinical than he was before, which many thought impossible.

plasmaguy wrote: »

A lot of players have great short bursts in their career but sustaining it is the mark of greatness.

Ronaldo never suffered from "great short bursts". He was sensational everywhere he went right up to today. His goal record at any club he has played for is simply incredible. What more can you ask for?

8-10

CorkMan wrote: »

Main point is: Messi is a player every decade, not every century. Ronaldo was outstanding in the 90s, now Messi in the 00's.

00's are over dude.

CorkMan

Its season 2009/10 :P

yahoo_moe

What point are you trying to make here exactly?

MuPpItJoCkEy

I think that all the talk of Messi being the greatest player of all time is very premature. I think he is a fantastic player but who knows what will happen in his career. I also think that if he continues the way he is going, he certainly will go on to become one of the all time greats and be remembered as a legend in the same class as the Zidanes, Maradona's, Pele's etc.

Ronaldo in his day was class. Does anyone remember when he single handedly destroyed Man United at Old Trafford in the champs league and left the pitch to a standing ovation from the United fans and Real fans alike? That was some game and great to see the fans appreciating good football. 6-5 on aggregate. So close!

CorkMan

MuPpItJoCkEy wrote: »

I think that all the talk of Messi being the greatest player of all time is very premature. I think he is a fantastic player but who knows what will happen in his career. I also think that if he continues the way he is going, he certainly will go on to become one of the all time greats and be remembered as a legend in the same class as the Zidanes, Maradona's, Pele's etc.

Ronaldo in his day was class. Does anyone remember when he single handedly destroyed Man United at Old Trafford in the champs league and left the pitch to a standing ovation from the United fans and Real fans alike? That was some game and great to see the fans appreciating good football. 6-5 on aggregate. So close!

wasn't he taking off after less than 65 minutes?! I think he was.

~Rebel~

CorkMan wrote: »

but Messi is heralded for his goalscoring recorded most. He plays ahead of the midfield, wing forward/striker.

Of course he's massively heralded for his goalscoring record - because he's getting so very many goals from attacking midfield rather then striker.

Now, Ronaldo is my favourite player of all time, but this thread is just a bit baffling. You can't take just goalscoring figures when you're comparing an attacking midfielder with a striker. The fact Messi's is even comparable is frankly incredible.

Everyone will have their own opinion, but this thread doesn't do much to argue in either direction, and doesn't really contain anything to live up to the thread title.

missingtime

MuPpItJoCkEy wrote: »

I think that all the talk of Messi being the greatest player of all time is very premature. I think he is a fantastic player but who knows what will happen in his career. I also think that if he continues the way he is going, he certainly will go on to become one of the all time greats and be remembered as a legend in the same class as the Zidanes, Maradona's, Pele's etc.

Ronaldo in his day was class. Does anyone remember when he single handedly destroyed Man United at Old Trafford in the champs league and left the pitch to a standing ovation from the United fans and Real fans alike? That was some game and great to see the fans appreciating good football. 6-5 on aggregate. So close!

here you go.

not sure of the language but doesn't really matter

Ronaldo was my most favourite player of all time. Amazing skill and confidence and the ability to better himself after injury.

plasmaguy

Archimedes wrote: »

Ronaldo is one of the greatest of all time, regardless of what happened. If it weren't for his injuries, he would be considered the greatest of all time bar none.

Wrong!

Pele scored over a thousand club goals playing in Brazil during a time when all the best Brazilian players played in Brazil and Brazil was by far and away the best footballing nation in the world. Even if Ronaldo had not been injured he would not have scored over a 1000 club goals.

Maradona lead two average teams, Argentina in 1986 to the WC and Napoli to the league title. Neither have done anything since Maradona retired. He almost single handedly beat England in the quarters, while scoring a wonder goal against Belgium in the semis and pulled the strings against Germany in the final, setting up the winning goal. Maradona was also crucial to Argentina's march to the final in 90, playing on one of the poorest Argentinian sides ever, he set up the winning goal against Brazil.

Ronaldo flopped in 98 at the WC final, and was fortunate to always play with a good Brazil side thereafter.

Even if injuries hadn't affeced him, and they didn't affect him in 98, he would still have a long way to go to surpass Maradona and Pele.

Even if he has been fit throughout his career, there are many more players I rate as being more gifted than Ronaldo. Like I say he was a good player, but fortunate to play on good teams which always makes it easier.

~Rebel~

plasmaguy wrote: »

Wrong!

Pele scored over a thousand club goals playing in Brazil during a time when all the best Brazilian players played in Brazil and Brazil was by far and away the best footballing nation in the world. Even if Ronaldo had not been injured he would not have scored over a 1000 club goals.

Maradona lead two average teams, Argentina in 1986 to the WC and Napoli to the league title. Neither have done anything since Maradona retired. He almost single handedly beat England in the quarters, while scoring a wonder goal against Belgium in the semis and pulled the strings against Germany in the final, setting up the winning goal. Maradona was also crucial to Argentina's march to the final in 90, playing on one of the poorest Argentinian sides ever, he set up the winning goal against Brazil.

Ronaldo flopped in 98 at the WC final, and was fortunate to always play with a good Brazil side thereafter.

Even if injuries hadn't affeced him, and they didn't affect him in 98, he would still have a long way to go to surpass Maradona and Pele.

Even if he has been fit throughout his career, there are many more players I rate as being more gifted than Ronaldo. Like I say he was a good player, but fortunate to play on good teams which always makes it easier.

Wrong!? Are you serious? What age are you? That was Archie's opinion, you disagree, it doesn't make him wrong.

You frankly have no idea what Ronaldo would have achieved without injuries. Pele was obviously unbelieveable but everything doesn't come down to goals scored - for example a huge amount of Pele's goals come from friendlies, and even include goals from games he played while in the army.

Also, by your reckoning, Romario was much better then Ronaldo could have been too as he also scored 1000 goals. But thats simply not the case. Romario was incredible, but he was no Pele or Ronaldo.

Ronaldo, in his prime, was literally unstoppable. We should just wish we could have seen what he could have achieved without injuries that would have ended most players careers.

CSF

Worst........thread...............ever.

Liam O

plasmaguy wrote: »

Wrong!

Pele scored over a thousand club goals playing in Brazil during a time when all the best Brazilian players played in Brazil and Brazil was by far and away the best footballing nation in the world. Even if Ronaldo had not been injured he would not have scored over a 1000 club goals.

Maradona lead two average teams, Argentina in 1986 to the WC and Napoli to the league title. Neither have done anything since Maradona retired. He almost single handedly beat England in the quarters, while scoring a wonder goal against Belgium in the semis and pulled the strings against Germany in the final, setting up the winning goal. Maradona was also crucial to Argentina's march to the final in 90, playing on one of the poorest Argentinian sides ever, he set up the winning goal against Brazil.

Ronaldo flopped in 98 at the WC final, and was fortunate to always play with a good Brazil side thereafter.

Even if injuries hadn't affeced him, and they didn't affect him in 98, he would still have a long way to go to surpass Maradona and Pele.

Even if he has been fit throughout his career, there are many more players I rate as being more gifted than Ronaldo. Like I say he was a good player, but fortunate to play on good teams which always makes it easier.

while I'm not Ronaldo's biggest fan, I had to lol at this, it was a miracle that he even played in the final.

Oh and btw C. Ronaldo>Messi imo

101001

neither are a patch on gary doherty

keane2097

plasmaguy wrote: »

Wrong!

Pele scored over a thousand club goals playing in Brazil during a time when all the best Brazilian players played in Brazil and Brazil was by far and away the best footballing nation in the world. Even if Ronaldo had not been injured he would not have scored over a 1000 club goals.

Maradona lead two average teams, Argentina in 1986 to the WC and Napoli to the league title. Neither have done anything since Maradona retired. He almost single handedly beat England in the quarters, while scoring a wonder goal against Belgium in the semis and pulled the strings against Germany in the final, setting up the winning goal. Maradona was also crucial to Argentina's march to the final in 90, playing on one of the poorest Argentinian sides ever, he set up the winning goal against Brazil.

Ronaldo flopped in 98 at the WC final, and was fortunate to always play with a good Brazil side thereafter.

Even if injuries hadn't affeced him, and they didn't affect him in 98, he would still have a long way to go to surpass Maradona and Pele.

Even if he has been fit throughout his career, there are many more players I rate as being more gifted than Ronaldo. Like I say he was a good player, but fortunate to play on good teams which always makes it easier.

This is the worst post I've seen in a good while.

#15

Do people even watch Messi? He is a forward.
The fact that he starts from wide is a quirk of the modern game. He's a forward. It's even more crazy to call him a midfielder, of any kind.

His domain is the final third, quite clearly.

#15

plasmaguy wrote: »

Wrong!

Pele scored over a thousand club goals playing in Brazil during a time when all the best Brazilian players played in Brazil and Brazil was by far and away the best footballing nation in the world. Even if Ronaldo had not been injured he would not have scored over a 1000 club goals.

Maradona lead two average teams, Argentina in 1986 to the WC and Napoli to the league title. Neither have done anything since Maradona retired. He almost single handedly beat England in the quarters, while scoring a wonder goal against Belgium in the semis and pulled the strings against Germany in the final, setting up the winning goal. Maradona was also crucial to Argentina's march to the final in 90, playing on one of the poorest Argentinian sides ever, he set up the winning goal against Brazil.

Ronaldo flopped in 98 at the WC final, and was fortunate to always play with a good Brazil side thereafter.

Even if injuries hadn't affeced him, and they didn't affect him in 98, he would still have a long way to go to surpass Maradona and Pele.

Even if he has been fit throughout his career, there are many more players I rate as being more gifted than Ronaldo. Like I say he was a good player, but fortunate to play on good teams which always makes it easier.

Luiz Ronaldo was a phenomenon.

Had he not suffered so badly with injuries, he would have owned football for ten years easy. One of the most natural forwards of all time, next to unstoppable at his best.

JPA

#15 wrote: »

Do people even watch Messi? He is a forward.
The fact that he starts from wide is a quirk of the modern game. He's a forward. It's even more crazy to call him a midfielder, of any kind.

His domain is the final third, quite clearly.

He's a forward but he's not a striker.

rossie1977

plasmaguy wrote: »

Even if injuries hadn't affeced him, and they didn't affect him in 98, he would still have a long way to go to surpass Maradona and Pele.

who are these maradona and pele guys, football only started in 1992

in all seriousness maradona and pele were different level to ronaldo. people don't realise how good pele was. this is a guy who at 17 scored 6 goals in a world cup, including the winner in the quarters, a hat-trick in the semi when coming on at half time with his team losing and another 2 in the final to bring the world cup home to brazil for the first time ever, that to this day remains the ONLY world cup win by a non-european team in europe

don't forget this is a 17 year old guy in a world cup final here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1tKmCgF0sE

i think a fairer comparison would be ronaldo with Ferenc Puskas, he would lose that too though as puskas was the greatest striker the game has ever seen

510 goals in 520 club games, 85 goals in 84 internationals, nobody will ever match that record at the highest level

Insect Overlord

101001 wrote: »

neither are a patch on gary Breen

FYP

#15

JPA wrote: »

He's a forward but he's not a striker.

Yeah.

SlickRic

eagle eye wrote: »

He is considered one of the greats.

He is one of the greats.

tdv123

SlickRic wrote: »

He is one of the greats.

He is great.

mayordenis

They are both ****ing phenomenal, everyone in the world who isn't Messi or Ronaldo is a ****.

thorbarry

why even bother compare the two?

Boskowski

Since we're back to Puskas now I'm surprised that no-one has mentioned "kleines dickes Müller" yet. Let me- somehat predictably - do that for you.

68 goals in 62 international matches. Close to 370 goals in 425 league games. Records show that he scored in his 2nd year in 'B-Jugend' (16 year olds) just under 200 goals in one season.

I think he was the most natural all n out striker I've ever seen anyway.

plasmaguy

keane2097 wrote: »

This is the worst post I've seen in a good while.

Thankfully I don't rate your opinion.

keane2097

plasmaguy wrote: »

Thankfully I don't rate your opinion.

And nobody at all rates yours.

Everyone's a winner.

artanevilla

Bizzare arguement I think.

None of them were better than the great Figo!*






Know it's not true but he was my favourite *

CorkMan

rossie1977 wrote: »

don't forget this is a 17 year old guy in a world cup final here
l

IYO, what if Ronaldo got into the squad for 94 when he was 17, he was the only player in the squad still playing in south america. He got 22 goals in 26 games in the brazilian league and the south american championship. 35 goals in 36 games the next season at PSV.

IMO he could have been top scorer. He would be at least Peles level when Pele was 17.

GiftofGab

plasmaguy wrote: »

Wrong!

Pele scored over a thousand club goals playing in Brazil during a time when all the best Brazilian players played in Brazil and Brazil was by far and away the best footballing nation in the world. Even if Ronaldo had not been injured he would not have scored over a 1000 club goals.

Maradona lead two average teams, Argentina in 1986 to the WC and Napoli to the league title. Neither have done anything since Maradona retired. He almost single handedly beat England in the quarters, while scoring a wonder goal against Belgium in the semis and pulled the strings against Germany in the final, setting up the winning goal. Maradona was also crucial to Argentina's march to the final in 90, playing on one of the poorest Argentinian sides ever, he set up the winning goal against Brazil.

Ronaldo flopped in 98 at the WC final, and was fortunate to always play with a good Brazil side thereafter.

Even if injuries hadn't affeced him, and they didn't affect him in 98, he would still have a long way to go to surpass Maradona and Pele.

Even if he has been fit throughout his career, there are many more players I rate as being more gifted than Ronaldo. Like I say he was a good player, but fortunate to play on good teams which always makes it easier.

Pele was playing at a time when they had matches every 3 days. Also, it wasn't unusual for him to play 3 games in one week. That's how he scored so many goals. He would play a full season then go on tour for the summer. So he never stopped playing games. He also played at a time we teams focuses purely on attacking with not much emphasis on defence. Still an amazing player thou.

plasmaguy

keane2097 wrote: »

And nobody at all rates yours.

Everyone's a winner.

The difference between you and me is I know what I'm talking about. That knowledge comes from actually playing the game to a reasonably high level which I seriously doubt you have.

Say hello to ignore buddy.

CSF

plasmaguy wrote: »

The difference between you and me is I know what I'm talking about. That knowledge comes from actually playing the game to a reasonably high level which I seriously doubt you have.

Say hello to ignore buddy.

Ahahahahahahahaha.

Mr Alan

plasmaguy wrote: »

The difference between you and me is I know what I'm talking about. That knowledge comes from actually playing the game to a reasonably high level which I seriously doubt you have.

Say hello to ignore buddy.

Are you Gary Doherty?

plasmaguy

Ok just to quicky put the Pele issue to bed.

Pele played on three winning world cup teams including the only one where a South American Team won in Europe.

The 1970 Brazil team is widely regarded as the greatest international side of all time. Pele was the jewel in the crown of that side. This was also an era of many many great sides and players, England with Charlton, Moore, Banks and so on, Germany with Beckenbaur and Gerd Muller, and many other good sides.

Unfortunately, Ronaldo while a great player, was not in the same league as Pele. At international level he isn't even in the same league as Gerd Muller who was incredibily consistant at international level.

Ronaldo scored 15 goals over 3 world cup. Muller 14 over 2 world cups, including 10 in one world cup. That makes Muller's goals per WC games more impressive.

I wouldn't rate Ronaldo in the top ten players of all time, but he wouldn't be far off it, and most football experts would go along with that view. Messi is heading for the top 10 and possibly the top 5 of all time.

CSF

plasmaguy wrote: »

I wouldn't rate Ronaldo in the top ten players of all time, but he wouldn't be far off it, and most other football experts would go along with that view. Messi is heading for the top 10 and possibly the top 5 of all time.

Typo corrected

anonymous_joe

GiftofGab wrote: »

Pele was playing at a time when they had matches every 3 days. Also, it wasn't unusual for him to play 3 games in one week. That's how he scored so many goals. He would play a full season then go on tour for the summer. So he never stopped playing games. He also played at a time we teams focuses purely on attacking with not much emphasis on defence. Still an amazing player thou.

Pele was also a physical freak. He was naturally just incredibly fit. Probably as fit as a modern pro, and when you consider those around him the advantage that gave him was incredible.