Counter-Protest on the 18th.

oceanclub

danman wrote: »

Anglo got €66 billion...???? :eek::eek:

when did this happen? I leave boards for a day and the government give Anglo 15 times more than they got already...!!!!

Please change it to "will give" if it makes you feel any better.

P.

karma_

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

*sigh*


I said I didn't agree with the bank bailouts. So it is not hypocritical.

So in fact you are fine with a socialist policy 'if things are too far gone'?

oceanclub

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Nope, more like: "I do not support the government, I support a government. And I do not want to see Socialists anywere near power in this country. While I do not aree with the bank bailouts I understand that we are too far into this sh!t to turn around now".

It's a bit long I know, and it isn't very catchy but then that's the funny thing about the truth it rearly is catchy.

Well in that case allow me to give you a hand, Tory is not an insult.

1. Please compare the record of Ruairi Quinn as Minister for Finance against Brian Cowen's before making any blanket remarks about socialists in power.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruairi_Quinn#Minister_for_Finance

During Quinn's tenure as Minister for Finance, the overall tax burden in Ireland (the ratio of tax revenue, including pay related social insurance levies, to gross national product) fell from 38.7% to 34.8%, of by 1.3 percentage points each year. He achieved this by limiting current government spending to grow by 6.8% in nominal terms or 4.8% in real terms, against a backdrop of improving economic fortunes, due to increasing investment in technology intensive sectors of the Irish economy.

Under Quinn, the General Government Balance went from a deficit of 2.1% in 1995 to a surplus of 1.1% in 1997. The General Government Debt went from 81% of GNP in 1995 to 63.6% in 1997. The year before Quinn became an economic Minister in 1993, Irish economic growth was 2.5% (1992). In 1993 GNP growth was 3%; in 1994, 6.5%; in 1995, 8%; in 1996, 7.8%; and finally in 1997, 10.3%. The unemployment rate fell from 1993 to 1997 as follows: 15.7% in 1993; 14.7% in 1994; 12.2% in 1995; 11.9% in 1996; and finally, 10.3% in 1997.

2(a): So, you youself are calling for people to protest for a banking bailout that you don't agree with. Not the strongest rallying cry ever:

"What do we want?" "Something I don't agree with but it's happened already, so we may as well go along with it." "When do we want it?" "NOW!"

2(b): Bailing out failed businesses, especially failed ones such as Anglo which can't even begin to be claimed as "systemic", is not capitalism.

3. I think "Tory Boy" is a pretty disparaging remark:



P.

Iwasfrozen

oceanclub wrote: »

1. Please compare the record of Ruairi Quinn as Minister for Finance against Brian Cowen's before making any blanket remarks about socialists in power.

Ah yes, Labour the left wing crazy party in thrall to the unions. Wasn't he leader of that? Wasn't he also finance minister during the FF-Lab coalition? With his party begin the smaller of the two with less power?

oceanclub wrote: »

2(a): So, you youself are calling for people to protest for a banking bailout that you don't agree with. Not the strongest rallying cry ever:

I don't want people to protest. I can't stand protestors, they give the entire country a bad image in the financial markets. Protests only serve to drive jobs away as TNCs do not like political instability.

oceanclub wrote: »

2(b): Bailing out failed businesses, especially failed ones such as Anglo which can't even begin to be claimed as "systemic", is not capitalism.

Agreed I would rather have seen the banks fall at the start. But we are too far in the sh!t now. We have guaranteed bank investments to the tune of billions via Nama. If we pull out we will lose all of that money. Don't you understand anything about economics?

oceanclub wrote: »

3. I think "Tory Boy" is a pretty disparaging remark:

A Tory is a member of the Conservative party. That isn't an insult.

Iwasfrozen

karma_ wrote: »

So in fact you are fine with a socialist policy 'if things are too far gone'?

This is like banging my head against a wall:
I would rather have seen the banks fall at the start. But we are too far in the sh!t now. We have guaranteed bank investments to the tune of billions via Nama. If we pull out we will lose all of that money. Don't you understand anything about economics?

oceanclub

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Ah yes, Labour the left wing crazy party in thrall to the unions.

Ah right, ignore his actual record and rave. Very strong case there.

I don't want people to protest.

Sorry, but I presumed when you started quoting made-up placards slogans, you were agreeing with the OP of the thread.

Protests only serve to drive jobs away as TNCs do not like political instability.

Gosh, perhaps we should have them banned.

Agreed I would rather have seen the banks fall at the start. But we are too far in the sh!t now. We have guaranteed bank investments to the tune of billions via Nama. If we pull out we will lose all of that money. Don't you understand anything about economics?

You do realise that it would be cheaper to close down Anglo than to continue? Gosh, don't you know anything about economics?

A Tory is a member of the Conservative party. That isn't an insult.

You do know the origin of the word "Tory", don't you?

P.

karma_

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

This is like banging my head against a wall:
I would rather have seen the banks fall at the start. But we are too far in the sh!t now. We have guaranteed bank investments to the tune of billions via Nama. If we pull out we will lose all of that money. Don't you understand anything about economics?

So let me get this straight, you would counter-protest a protest that is protesting about something you didn't agree with in the first place?

Iwasfrozen

oceanclub wrote: »

Ah right, ignore his actual record and rave. Very strong case there.

I'm afraid I cannot give any better comments on the guy. The party was only in power as part of a FF-Lab coalition so we cannot know how much influence Labour and Ruairi Quinn actually had over the decisions implemented during his time as minister.

oceanclub wrote: »

Gosh, perhaps we should have them banned.

And you accuse me of raving. Like it of not TNCs employ alot of people in this country and will continue to do so. We must think of ways of keeping them here, not giving them more reason to leave. and political instability is a reason to leave.

oceanclub wrote: »

You do realise that it would be cheaper to close down Anglo than to continue? Gosh, don't you know anything about economics?

Source ?

oceanclub wrote: »

You do know the origin of the word "Tory", don't you?

Yes from what I remember of primary history they were rebels against Oliver Cromwells rule.

Iwasfrozen

karma_ wrote: »

So let me get this straight, you would counter-protest a protest that is protesting about something you didn't agree with in the first place?

You have that wrong. I do not condone protesting.

sceptre

You two (Iwasfrozen and oceanclub), knock it off with the idiotic insults and discussing what is and isn't one in your own universes or I'll ban you both till June. Your call, other people shouldn't have to put up with this. IF you've a problem with an insult, report it, that's the procedure. Too late now, you're both at it. You can discuss the actual topic in an adult manner though as that is less idiotic.

/mod

Shea O'Meara

A few points;

NAMA is a socialist policy, (although bastardized). The people are supporting the banks, because the banks can't support themselves. That's kinda 'beardy' ain't it? To stick to the principles of capitalism would mean letting the banks go to the wall. So it seems socialism if fine when it suits.

As for the counter protest, you can thank socialist ideals such as the right to protest for that;)

Also, the Public sector pay and welfare rates wouldn't be as big an issue if the selfists (my cutesy name for the self serving/right wing) weren’t both so corrupt and incompetent respectively.

Shea O'Meara

Shea O'Meara wrote: »

As for the counter protest, you can thank socialist ideals such as the right to protest for that;)

lol?

bobbysands81

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Ok, so I'd like to get one going for the 18th. We won't march the whole way but we can work out maybe an O' Connell St. counter-protest to the union/leftist driven "anti-bank bailout" protest. We won't follow the full route up to the Dáil because I feel we will be putting ourselves in a potentially dangerous situation.

Make no mistake that these people do not have our best interests at heart. By our best interests I mean the silent majority in this country who want to see the deficit cut, and for us to return to growth and job creation levels to rise. These people see the Greek rioters as champions of their rights - The rest of us sensible people can see them for what they are.

What will we be protesting for?
Well, firstly we will support government (any government) cutbacks in order to decrease our deficit substantially. Cutbacks to welfare and PS budgets. We will be protesting against the threats that have been made against this country by the unions, who think they can hold us all to ransom to get what they want to the detriment of the rest of us and future generations. We will be for a sensible fiscal policy that will see our country dig itself out of the hole it's in now and will set us on a steady course for the future.

Now we can add more to the list, I'm open to suggestions. I don't care how many people show up, if there's 3 of us or if there's 100 - the point is to make ourselves heard.

So how did your protest go?

danman

bobbysands81 wrote: »

So how did your protest go?

How did the protest go last night?
Have the Bailouts been reversed yet?
How about NAMA? Has it been disbanded?

I've listened to the radio all morning, but they don't seem to have passed on the news of the reversals yet. Bloody media.

Banned Account

There won't be any reversals because the protest had no aims whatsoever, it was no more than a bunch of radical lefties using emotive issues to forward their own agenda. What the hell does an evicted woman have to do with the 'right to work'?

Pointless exercise led by persons with notions of self-importance.

Morpheus

800 - 1000? thats it? some mass protest that was...

Personally (I DONT support the protests reasons, but support peoples right to protest and be heard) it seemed to me that numbers were DOWN on last tuesday and whats a shame is that its as a direct result ot the fringe hardliners killing off the legitimate protest, very un-democratic... glad people stayed away, maybe they can peacefully demonstrate again on a different date without all the looneys coming along.

Also, this crap of scuffling with the cops FOR NO REASON and shouting we'll be back with more numbers, there arent enough of us to take them on (them being the gardai) etc coming through the loudhailers, now thats just a joke, most of those extreme elements will be rioting for violence sake only. Shipping people down from the north too? WTF, is your home support that bad that you have to bring along away fans!??

danman

Morphéus,
I haven't read any reports about last night.

Did the SF types bring down fellow travellers from the North?
Why am I not surprised at this.

Do you have a decent link?

Judging from what I saw on the news last night, and the amount of Eirigi scum that turned up, it's safe to say that any counter protest would have been targeted and assaulted.

Morpheus

Ok, before im hung drawn and quartered... i have re read this article and realise that it was actually written BEFORE the protests, but it seems well informed in the way its written that the protestors were bringing in reinforcements...

The ranks of the breakaway protesters are being swelled by a group ferried in from Northern Ireland, with participants from Belfast and Portadown identified in the previous demonstrations.
[url]
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/garda-plan-in-place-to-combat-guerilla-protesters-2183517.html
[/url]

A couple of articles here
http://news.google.ie/news/more?pz=1&cf=all&ned=en_ie&topic=n&ncl=dhHRufuKcAgUKEMKjMxNvubFyL3PM

Morpheus

Somethings wrong with my browser

Anyway this is the article:

[ul]http://www.independent.ie/national-news/garda-plan-in-place-to-combat-guerilla-protesters-2183517.html[/url]

bobbysands81

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Judging from what I saw on the news last night, and the amount of Eirigi scum that turned up, it's safe to say that any counter protest would have been targeted and assaulted.

So how did your protest go?

Did you not protest?

Morpheus

Surely by its nature, a counter protest is just that... the opposite to a protest as in NOT a protest??? hmmm or is that an anti protest? damnit i dunno

Scofflaw

WSM Press Release on the protest:

The hundreds of people attending a protest called by The Workers Solidarity Movement (WSM) and Seomra Spraoi Social Centre tonight at Stephen’s Green showed the growing oppostion to NAMA and the bank bailots. WSM organised a march from Anglo Irish Bank to join the Right to Work demonstration at the Dail.

As the march moved away from Stephen’s Green, it was met with an aggressive and heavy handed police response. As the three hundred or so demonstators attempted to move onto the road to march to Anglo Irish Bank, Gardai on foot and horses moved in to prevent the march from commencing.

Gregor Kerr, a WSM spokesperson said “there was a real danger of tonight’s Garda action resulting in serious injuries. Only the discipline shown by the assembled protesters prevented the Gardai from provoking a riot. The change in Gardai tacics over the last week begs the question if this is a new government tactic to deter the growing oposition to their disastarous economic policies.”

Note both the claim of ownership and the size of the protest.

cordially,
Scofflaw

MagicSean

Morphéus wrote: »

800 - 1000? thats it? some mass protest that was...

Personally (I DONT support the protests reasons, but support peoples right to protest and be heard) it seemed to me that numbers were DOWN on last tuesday and whats a shame is that its as a direct result ot the fringe hardliners killing off the legitimate protest, very un-democratic... glad people stayed away, maybe they can peacefully demonstrate again on a different date without all the looneys coming along.

Also, this crap of scuffling with the cops FOR NO REASON and shouting we'll be back with more numbers, there arent enough of us to take them on (them being the gardai) etc coming through the loudhailers, now thats just a joke, most of those extreme elements will be rioting for violence sake only. Shipping people down from the north too? WTF, is your home support that bad that you have to bring along away fans!??

Obviously they only attack gardaí when they outnumber by 10 to 1 like the last time. Thats the way of the coward. God forbid they should get hurt in their "struggle".

danman

danman wrote: »

How did the protest go last night?
Have the Bailouts been reversed yet?
How about NAMA? Has it been disbanded?

I've listened to the radio all morning, but they don't seem to have passed on the news of the reversals yet. Bloody media.

bobbysands81 wrote: »

So how did your protest go?

Did you not protest?

You forgot to answer me.

OhNoYouDidn't

danman wrote: »

You forgot to answer me.

What an utterly pointless contribution.

There is a disturbing amount of posters on this forum who actively are opposed to the concept of the idea of the ordinary person taking to the streets to lobby government on a failed economic policy.

Scofflaw

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

What an utterly pointless contribution.

There is a disturbing amount of posters on this forum who actively are opposed to the concept of the idea of the ordinary person taking to the streets to lobby government on a failed economic policy.

Most people are opposed to violent protests and/or protests hijacked or run by unrepresentative groups (SWP/WSM/eirigi etc) rather than protesting in general. In other words, the problem here is that we're not talking about "the ordinary person" - in the sense of "representative of the general public", that is, since I wouldn't deny you your mundanity in any other sense.

cordially,
Scofflaw

danman

bobbysands81 wrote: »

So how did your protest go?

bobbysands81 wrote: »

So how did your protest go?

Did you not protest?

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

What an utterly pointless contribution.

There is a disturbing amount of posters on this forum who actively are opposed to the concept of the idea of the ordinary person taking to the streets to lobby government on a failed economic policy.

I was responding in a similar fashion to the above poster.
I have a reasonable question, which has been ignored.

Can you edit your post to include the above 2 posts, I agree with your sentiment, but I was responding to equally pointless posts.

bobbysands81

Scofflaw wrote: »

Most people are opposed to violent protests and/or protests hijacked or run by unrepresentative groups (SWP/WSM/eirigi etc) rather than protesting in general. In other words, the problem here is that we're not talking about "the ordinary person" - in the sense of "representative of the general public", that is, since I wouldn't deny you your mundanity in any other sense.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Given that they got up to 2,000 people onto the streets last night and given that Rojomcdojo's counter-protest attracted nobody then based on that they're far more representative than your point of view.

In my opinion there were plenty of folks there "representative" of the general public, not as many as I'd like or hoped for but I'm glad I played my part in the protest.

bobbysands81

danman wrote: »

How did the protest go last night?
Have the Bailouts been reversed yet?
How about NAMA? Has it been disbanded?

I've listened to the radio all morning, but they don't seem to have passed on the news of the reversals yet. Bloody media.

Oh so now we expect rhetorical questions to be answered do we?

The protest went well, not a great turnout but not too bad and consensus seemed to be that numbers were up on last week - the rain probably didn't help with the numbers though.

The bailouts have not been reversed and NAMA trundles on... I don't know what good these protests will do, if anything at all, but better to try and fail than not bother a jot. At the very least it allows me to channel my frustrations towards this Govt in a positive and peaceful way.

I will continue to attend unless someone has a better idea...

Scofflaw

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Given that they got up to 2,000 people onto the streets last night and given that Rojomcdojo's counter-protest attracted nobody then based on that they're far more representative than your point of view.

In my opinion there were plenty of folks there "representative" of the general public, not as many as I'd like or hoped for but I'm glad I played my part in the protest.

I'm glad you're glad, but it doesn't change the question of whether your protest is representative or not. The generally given estimate of 1,000 protesters makes this a very small protest - and we already know that groups like SWP, WSM, and eirigi are not representative, because that's been electorally tested on many occasions.

I appreciate that you can't give up on this one, since you have to believe and/or say that the protests are representative. I'm saying that at this point they're very definitely not, and I suspect we'll have to agree to differ.

cordially,
Scofflaw

gandalf

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Given that they got up to 2,000 people onto the streets last night and given that Rojomcdojo's counter-protest attracted nobody then based on that they're far more representative than your point of view.

In my opinion there were plenty of folks there "representative" of the general public, not as many as I'd like or hoped for but I'm glad I played my part in the protest.

I posted this in the after hours thread but I think its apt here as well.

Considering there are over 400,000 people unemployed those numbers you quoted are pathetic. Bear in mind that some media outlets are quoting the numbers as low as 1000. Has it been considered that the majority of people in this country wouldn't be seen dead marching with the usual suspects of the rent a protest crowd.

From the protest videos and photos it appears that they consist of perpetual students, failed malcontents and Republican thugs.

And also I still see no mention of how any of the people in these marches plan to get us out of this mess?

bobbysands81

Scofflaw wrote: »

I'm glad you're glad, but it doesn't change the question of whether your protest is representative or not. The generally given estimate of 1,000 protesters makes this a very small protest - and we already know that groups like SWP, WSM, and eirigi are not representative, because that's been electorally tested on many occasions.

I appreciate that you can't give up on this one, since you have to believe and/or say that the protests are representative. I'm saying that at this point they're very definitely not, and I suspect we'll have to agree to differ.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Not for a second will I try and say that the protest was representative of the general population, of course it wasn't as groups such as Éirigi, SF, SWP, PBP etc... made up a large % of the assembled crowd. I would much prefer an "independent" non-politically aligned demonstration. For me the important thing is not to garner support for any of the above organisations but to get a very direct and blunt message across to the Government.

I'm attending these demonstrations because I don't know what else constructive I can do.

Do I believe that they're going to change anything? Not at the moment they won't, but who knows what might happen if a bit of momentum gets behind them.

What I do know is that they make me feel better about myself and what's happening in this State of ours. As I said better to try and fail then not try at all.

OhNoYouDidn't

Scofflaw wrote: »

Most people are opposed to violent protests and/or protests hijacked or run by unrepresentative groups (SWP/WSM/eirigi etc) rather than protesting in general. In other words, the problem here is that we're not talking about "the ordinary person" - in the sense of "representative of the general public", that is, since I wouldn't deny you your mundanity in any other sense.
cordially,
Scofflaw

Are you sure you are a mod? What happened to the play the ball mantra? Or does it only apply to us 'ordinary people'?

There will be a protest every Tuesday. It may snowball into something that the government can't ignore, it might fizzle out, but as Bob says, it beats being santcimonious about the motives of the Irish left on the internet....

This is a trade union march supported by dozens of groupings. No-one is hijacking anything. But its easier to sit behind a keyboard and criticise those who stand up and try and do something about it, isn't it.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

OhNoYouDidn't

Scofflaw wrote: »

I'm glad you're glad, but it doesn't change the question of whether your protest is representative or not. The generally given estimate of 1,000 protesters makes this a very small protest - and we already know that groups like SWP, WSM, and eirigi are not representative, because that's been electorally tested on many occasions.

I appreciate that you can't give up on this one, since you have to believe and/or say that the protests are representative. I'm saying that at this point they're very definitely not, and I suspect we'll have to agree to differ.

cordially,
Scofflaw

So offer an alternitive way for Bob and the overwhelming majority of the Irish population who oppose the governments handling of the crisis to get their voices heard?

We get it, you don't like the Irish left or the notion of grass roots movements.

bobbysands81

deadtiger wrote: »

I posted this in the after hours thread but I think its apt here as well.

Considering there are over 400,000 people unemployed those numbers you quoted are pathetic. Bear in mind that some media outlets are quoting the numbers as low as 1000. Has it been considered that the majority of people in this country wouldn't be seen dead marching with the usual suspects of the rent a protest crowd.

From the protest videos and photos it appears that they consist of perpetual students, failed malcontents and Republican thugs.

And also I still see no mention of how any of the people in these marches plan to get us out of this mess?

Well at least those 1,000 people are trying... what are the other 4,000,000+ in this Republic of ours doing? Maybe I'm completely out of touch here, maybe folks are secretly quite happy with the Govt and if that's the case then I accept that and will continue to be in this minority.

As for the 400,000 people who are unemplyed, why don't they go and try and do something about this position we're in engineered by weak Govt? I'll join that protest too.

OhNoYouDidn't

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Well at least those 1,000 people are trying... what are the other 4,000,000+ in this Republic of ours doing? Maybe I'm completely out of touch here, maybe folks are secretly quite happy with the Govt and if that's the case then I accept that and will continue to be in this minority.

As for the 400,000 people who are unemplyed, why don't they go and try and do something about this position we're in engineered by weak Govt? I'll join that protest too.

You are arguing with a bunch of neo-liberals and FF heads.

All dissent is suspect, don't waste your time rationalising...

bobbysands81

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

It was a mere guess which I stand by, I reckon there were close to 2,000 at it. If I'm wrong then hey, I'm wrong.

bobbysands81

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

You are arguing with a bunch of neo-liberals and FF heads.

All dissent is suspect, don't waste your time rationalising...

It's the same everywhere H, it's so easy to sit and snipe at things that are going wrong, it's much more difficult to get involved and make them better.

I have no idea if what I'm doing will make a difference, I very much doubt it will, but I'm not gonna be the "hurler on the ditch", I'm gonna try.

OhNoYouDidn't

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

1,200 more than the counter demo and 200 more than last week, taking the large pinch of salt that the Garda estimate in the paper is almost accurate...

OhNoYouDidn't

bobbysands81 wrote: »

It's the same everywhere H, it's so easy to sit and snipe at things that are going wrong, it's much more difficult to get involved and make them better.

I have no idea if what I'm doing will make a difference, I very much doubt it will, but I'm not gonna be the "hurler on the ditch", I'm gonna try.

I completely agree. But you are dealing with people on this thread who conceptually don't want you to try. Thats dangerous to them.

bobbysands81

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

1,200 more than the counter demo and 200 more than last week, taking the large pinch of salt that the Garda estimate in the paper is almost accurate...

I'm not talking about last night here but I've been at demonstrations where there's been thousands on it yet you read in the paper that only a couple of hundred turned up.

Scofflaw

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Are you sure you are a mod? What happened to the play the ball mantra? Or does it only apply to us 'ordinary people'?

I felt I should clarify the sense in which I meant "ordinary person". Are you saying you're not ordinary? In what way, then, are you extraordinary?

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

There will be a protest every Tuesday. It may snowball into something that the government can't ignore, it might fizzle out, but as Bob says, it beats being santcimonious about the motives of the Irish left on the internet....

This is a trade union march supported by dozens of groupings. No-one is hijacking anything. But its easier to sit behind a keyboard and criticise those who stand up and try and do something about it, isn't it.

You're not "trying to do something about it", though, unless you're organising it - all that's required of the ordinary marcher is to walk somewhere with a group of other people. As to those who are organising it - what do they hope to achieve? As far as I can see, all you're really demonstrating here is that majority of people in this country either don't like the hard left, or feel that you're not offering an alternative to what needs to be done.

See, "oppose the NAMA Republic", "bash the fat cats", and the like are just slogans. They're not an alternative to sorting out the public finances - and as long as you're not presenting a realistic alternative to the current government's attempts to sort out the public finances, you're not offering anything worth marching for.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

gandalf

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Well at least those 1,000 people are trying... what are the other 4,000,000+ in this Republic of ours doing? Maybe I'm completely out of touch here, maybe folks are secretly quite happy with the Govt and if that's the case then I accept that and will continue to be in this minority.

No but what are the goals of the 1000?

Ok they want the FF & the Greens out of Government, then what?

The probability is that Lab/FG will get in and still have to clean up the mess and still have to make cuts and increase taxes.

What then?

You do realise that a pixie isn't going to wave their magic wand and conjure up a pile of cash because Biffo and the boys are gone?

As for the 400,000 people who are unemplyed, why don't they go and try and do something about this position we're in engineered by weak Govt? I'll join that protest too.

But again protest for what?
What is the alternative the marchers were looking for?
Why did they bus in people from NI to protest in a different jurisdiction?

I am counting the days to the General Election, when FF and the Greens get an almighty kicking from the electorate. I am also aware that the other times that FF made a mess of things, they didn't have to make the hard decisions and take the heat because of that, they left it to others to sort out. I would prefer them to make the corrections and then be left out of Government for a very long time then skulk off let others fix the problem and swan in again because they didn't make the difficult and painful decisions.

bobbysands81

deadtiger wrote: »

No but what are the goals of the 1000?

Ok they want the FF & the Greens out of Government, then what?

The probability is that Lab/FG will get in and still have to clean up the mess and still have to make cuts and increase taxes.

What then?

You do realise that a pixie isn't going to wave their magic wand and conjure up a pile of cash because Biffo and the boys are gone?



But again protest for what?
What is the alternative the marchers were looking for?
Why did they bus in people from NI to protest in a different jurisdiction?

I am counting the days to the General Election, when FF and the Greens get an almighty kicking from the electorate. I am also aware that the other times that FF made a mess of things, they didn't have to make the hard decisions and take the heat because of that, they left it to others to sort out. I would prefer them to make the corrections and then be left out of Government for a very long time then skulk off let others fix the problem and swan in again because they didn't make the difficult and painful decisions.

I agree with all that.

Of course there has to be cuts - of course tax has to rise, has that ever been in dispute? We are in the worst recession ever (according to some) yet there was a notional decrease in taxes at the last budget - what is going on???

My problem is the lack of accountability in this State. The Govt knew for years that the property market was going to go tits up, but they ignored it because it suited their aims, not the aims of this country but their aims. My problem is that this Govt are working more for vested interests than the people of this State. Just look at what's happening the banks - why are the regular folks stumping up for the bond holders in the banks? Why has this Govt orchestrated a campaign of villification against all public sector workers in an attempt to divide and conquer?

We are in an utter state but this Govt are not, and should not be allowed to be the ones to drag us out of it. Of course I know there's no magic wand to fix what's happened but why the hell are you trying to portray such a glib response when you go on to say you can't wait to give them a kicking at the polls?

The Greens and (especially) FF should never get near power in this country again given what they've presided over and given the decisions they've made in self interest. Any poitician that recently voted for Willie O'Dea in a vote of confidence should have been sacked given the comments that the ex Minister made, that TDs backed him up when he clearly acted out of order is a shocking indictment of the calibre of person we have voted in in this country.

Things will get a lot worse before they get better but FF should not be the ones holding the reins when things pick up. Get them out and keep them out.

Scofflaw

Things will get a lot worse before they get better but FF should not be the ones holding the reins when things pick up. Get them out and keep them out.

That's a statement I don't have any problem with - I just don't see the Tuesday protests as helping with that aim.

cordially,
Scofflaw

danman

I've listened to various reports on the radio today, and I still canno see what the protesters hope to achieve.

As has been said here already, there just seems to be a collection of populist jargon being shouted. Not one proposal to change the economy, simply a crowd shouting.....

"We're angry, are you angry...."

what exactly is the point?
I just don't get it.

I took part in a large number of protests in NI in years gone past.
We had a goal, and a very simple remedy to the problems.
It was easy to gain support, because the goals and the remedies were easily understood by the people.

Contrast that to these recent protests.
There doesn't seem to be a goal, apart from shouting "We're angry"
there certainly isn't any proposals put forward to eliminate the problems.

I just don't see the point.
What exactly does any of the protesters think these protests will achieve, even in the unlikely circumstance that the numbers do escalate.

I really think that one of the problems with organising such a counter-demo, is that the people who would be inclined to join such a demonstration would be...well...working all day. I would wager that the majority of people involved in the demo last night were long term unemployed. (sweeping generalization yes, but this thread seems to be the right place for sweeping generalizations.)

Wasn't one of the groups marching a "restore the full dole for under 23's" group?