Beginner's Questions

EGOSHEA

Just the two questions to start:

(1) How much does restricting a bike usually cost and does this vary depending on the bike? How much? Thinking of getting a Yamaha MT 03 in a few months so I can do my full A test because I'm currently on a 125.

(2) How does someone find out about rookie ride-outs? I've spent all my (little) time riding in the city so far and would love to get out on the open roads a bit more for some practice. However, I'd like to go out with some newcomers like myself. As a second point, do these things ever have experienced riders along to help out?

Thanks for any help you can give.

goodlad

EGOSHEA wrote: »

Just the two questions to start:

(1) How much does restricting a bike usually cost and does this vary depending on the bike? How much? Thinking of getting a Yamaha MT 03 in a few months so I can do my full A test because I'm currently on a 125.

(2) How does someone find out about rookie ride-outs? I've spent all my (little) time riding in the city so far and would love to get out on the open roads a bit more for some practice. However, I'd like to go out with some newcomers like myself. As a second point, do these things ever have experienced riders along to help out?

Thanks for any help you can give.

Restriction costs around 250 - 300 usually.
Just ring around a few places and ask the prices. The only way you can get an accurate price is by asking shops.

For rideouts just look at some biker sites around like biker.ie or irishbikerforum.com. There are usually ride outs planned.

cantdecide

EGOSHEA wrote: »

...I've spent all my (little) time riding in the city so far and would love to get out on the open roads a bit more for some practice....

If you're comfortable with the city stuff, you'll have no problems with the open road. In fact, you'll probably have to remember to concentrate...

How long have you been riding? Have you done some training? If you haven't and you go and do a day/ assessment, you'll have all the tools you need to pass the test as well as better insurance options.

In my case, I started on a restricted 600. 5 months later I was on the restricted 1400 and 2 months after that, I had my full license in my hand. Your advancement all depends on how proactive you are prepared to be.

SlabMurphy

EGOSHEA wrote: »

Just the two questions to start:

How does someone find out about rookie ride-outs? I've spent all my (little) time riding in the city so far and would love to get out on the open roads a bit more for some practice. However, I'd like to go out with some newcomers like myself. As a second point, do these things ever have experienced riders along to help out?

Thanks for any help you can give.

You could get in contact with RebelRiders MCC in Cork. Ok, I know this lads have years of experience and large cruisers but I have met the club president Christie and he's sound, no BS with him, a helpful guy.

http://www.rebelridersmcc.com/club_info.htm

EGOSHEA

Thanks for all yere answers. I've only been riding three weeks - I've had four hours of professional lessons. I think that my cornering and road positioning going into corners is what needs open road practice as this is something that isn't as demanding in the city imo. I'm also still a bit wary on the bike regarding the chance that the back wheel will go out from under me (hasn't yet!).

goodlad

EGOSHEA wrote: »

Thanks for all yere answers. I've only been riding three weeks - I've had four hours of professional lessons. I think that my cornering and road positioning going into corners is what needs open road practice as this is something that isn't as demanding in the city imo. I'm also still a bit wary on the bike regarding the chance that the back wheel will go out from under me (hasn't yet!).

Sure im like that too, i admit im pure ****e at taking corners.
I can feel the back of the bike kinda slipping/wobbling on some corners. But i think thats just because im taking the corner terribly, lol

KamiKazi

Back wheel sliding is controllable, when the front starts slipping thats when things get fun

SlabMurphy

goodlad wrote: »

Sure im like that too, i admit im pure ****e at taking corners.
I can feel the back of the bike kinda slipping/wobbling on some corners. But i think thats just because im taking the corner terribly, lol

Sounds like your using the breaks ( probably the back one ) as your turning the corners. All your breaking ( and gear changing ) should be done going into the corner.

Sometimes I slip/wobble myself if I apply too much power on a slippery wet day at the take off at the lights or whatever. Also happens when breaking hard to stop sometimes. It's called fish tailing, not a habit to make regularily as sooner or later you'll end up on your side, but nothing to get too worried about all the same, just keep cool and it will be ok :cool:

alanmc

goodlad wrote: »

Sure im like that too, i admit im pure ****e at taking corners.
I can feel the back of the bike kinda slipping/wobbling on some corners. But i think thats just because im taking the corner terribly, lol

Or it could be that you're tensing up. When you're arms are tense, you're creating an extra rigid connection between the front of the bike and the back. You'll be surprised how well the bike will handle if you work on relaxing your arms. You should just have the lightest touch on the bars. If you're on a sports bike, hold yourself up using your stomach muscles. Try gripping the tank with your knees as well. Take the weight off the bars.

When I was learning this is the main thing I had to work on. I was terrified of tipping in to a corner. I'd grip the bars for dear life and as a result the bike would be twitchy and invariably wash out.

What SlabMurphy says is also a fundamental approach to taking the corners. Do all your braking and gear shifts in a straight line when the bike is upright (or mostly upright). Come off the brakes and tip her in (using counter steering). At this point, you should be cracking the throttle open. Not enought to start accelerating, but enough to stop de-celerating. This transfers the weight off the front tyre and on to the back tyre. So you "drive" your way out of the corner. You may have heard the term "Slow in, fast out". On the road this can be adapted to "brake in, drive out".

Just my €0.02

goodlad

I guess my comment slightly derailed the thread but im not gonna complain because its good advice you guys gave

@SlabMurphy: Your right in saying i tend to break on corners, its not so much a bad habbit rather than me near ****ting myself and being too nervous to lean the bike over far enough for the corner. Im coming into corners fast (ish) and not leaning enough so the bike tends to head for the oncoming lane of traffic mid bend so i gotta either lean more or break and i tend to break because of nerves which kicks the back wheel out a bit.

@alanmc: Your also right in saying i tense up, again its because of my nerves leaning the bike into corners. Its a bandit 600 im driving.
All the problems i tend to have relate to my nerves leaning the bike enough into corners. I think getting some more lessons are on the cards..

Again, thanks for the posts

alanmc

goodlad wrote: »

I guess my comment slightly derailed the thread but im not gonna complain because its good advice you guys gave

@SlabMurphy: Your right in saying i tend to break on corners, its not so much a bad habbit rather than me near ****ting myself and being too nervous to lean the bike over far enough for the corner. Im coming into corners fast (ish) and not leaning enough so the bike tends to head for the oncoming lane of traffic mid bend so i gotta either lean more or break and i tend to break because of nerves which kicks the back wheel out a bit.

@alanmc: Your also right in saying i tense up, again its because of my nerves leaning the bike into corners. Its a bandit 600 im driving.
All the problems i tend to have relate to my nerves leaning the bike enough into corners. I think getting some more lessons are on the cards..

Again, thanks for the posts

Yeah, sorry for continuing the thread hijack.

All this stuff will come with practice, confidence and time. You will wobble. You will tense up. And you will scare yourself. Keep at it and all of these things will ebb away and soon enough you'll be looking forward to getting to the next roundabout. IMHO, the most satisfying part of biking is getting a corner just right.

Laserface

cantdecide wrote: »

If you're comfortable with the city stuff, you'll have no problems with the open road.

Holy jesus...i personally think this is very wrong advice

the open road/countryside is 572 times more difficult than a city.
i live in the countryside..am an experienced biker...and still everyday is a challenge here with potholes, slime, muck, gravel, other culchie drivers being mental, more slime, vicious bends that will make you cry big man tears.

in cities there are lots more advantages. people use their indicators. there are red and green lights everywhere. junctions are painted white/yellow to help navigation, lanes have arrows painted in them...
i could go on

be VERY careful. countryside/open road 2010 is not what it used to be.

an experienced rider is essential for your first ride out in my opinion
if you're near cork give me a shout

cantdecide

Laserface wrote: »

....in cities there are lots more advantages- people use their indicators. there are red and green lights everywhere. junctions are painted white/yellow to help navigation, lanes have arrows painted in them...an experienced rider is essential for your first ride out in my opinion...

If you believe city driving is safer, you're doing it wrong.

alanmc

cantdecide wrote: »

If you believe city driving is safer, you're doing it wrong.

It's apples and oranges really. Both open-road riding and urban riding require different skill sets.

The below is what I do when I'm riding. It's not meant as advice or instruction. That's what professional instructors are for. If you think it makes sense and it works for you, by all means use it.

In the city/town, it's all stop/start riding. You're scanning junctions for rogue drivers pulling out when they shouldn't be. You're scanning pavements for pedestrians who've left their brains at home. You're concentrating on your slow riding skills. You're making eye contact with drivers in wing mirrors (if they use them!!!) to predict if they're going to switch lanes. You're looking at front wheels to see which way they're pointing. Observation is key here. But it's close to medium distance observation.

Open-road riding, I'm looking well ahead. I'm planning the next corner long before I reach it. I adjust my road position accordingly. Left-of-middle becomes the outside of the bend so I can better "look through" the corner.

As Laserface says there are added obstacles like mud on the roads, animals on the roads, slow moving machinery (tractors and the like). So you have to be scanning from medium to long distance. I find if I see a pothole and I keep an eye on it, I'll hit the damn thing.So, I look to the left or right of it. I drive where I look.

Neither is safer than the other IMO. Different obstacles requiring different skills to oversome them.

Personally, I hate riding through towns and cities. The bike overheats, the fan comes on and starts blowing hot air from the radiator at me. I find the potholes in towns much more of a hinderance as well. Filtering up to the front of a traffic light queue is somewhat satisfying though.

Cuddlesworth

Laserface wrote: »

in cities there are lots more advantages. people use their indicators. there are red and green lights everywhere. junctions are painted white/yellow to help navigation, lanes have arrows painted in them...
i could go on

Lol, I suppose its how you see it. All I see is people not using their indicators, people breaking lights left, right and centre, junctions covered in steel manholes covers and huge slick tar strips(lethal in the wet), lane markings that appear from under the car in front and increase your breaking by ten feet in the wet and most of all, way way way more hazards to be aware of due to the amount of people using the road. I prefer country driving, but would be wary of driving country roads without being able to read corners and take them properly.

And nothing beats the feeling of coming round the corner on a country road, seeing mud spread out a inch thick across it and thinking "why am I still accelerating"?

bladespin

Anywhere there is more traffic to deal with will definately be more difficult and dangerous to ride a motorcycle.

Laserface

cantdecide wrote: »

If you believe city driving is safer, you're doing it wrong.

even a child could drive around a city on a bike..

if you have problems with city driving you are either a useless driver..
or a madman who thinks people should drive differently just because YOU are on a bike

but as Alanmc said above..it's all apples and oranges.
i just wanted to throw my 2 cents in.
futile to argue with my personal opinion.

Wossack

more likely to be involved in a collision in a city

more likely to be involved in a fatal one on rural roads

bladespin

Wossack wrote: »

more likely to be involved in a collision in a city

more likely to be involved in a fatal one on rural roads

City - more likely to be hit by something

Country - more likely to hit something


TBH I just don't trust other drivers but I do trust my own skills and experience so the less interaction I have with other drivers the safer I feel.

ArphaRima

I have to say I find myself in the same boat as the lads here. I have years of experience in SE Asia on a motorbike doing inner city driving. Mental stuff there. My urban skills are apparent in my survival.

Just recently I got my full UK licence and now Im driving a 675cc bike on open roads and motorways. I have to say I am ****e at cornering. I was fine in training, but when it comes to 70mph motorway turns or even 50-60mph country roads I'm finding myself exiting corners on a line I didnt plan for. Usually wide. It really bothers me.

I suppose the question is how does someone train himself for this?

I already told the school I'd be interested in further training post-test but they said it's best to come back in a few months because its too soon..

KamiKazi

fluffer wrote: »

I have to say I find myself in the same boat as the lads here. I have years of experience in SE Asia on a motorbike doing inner city driving. Mental stuff there. My urban skills are apparent in my survival.

Just recently I got my full UK licence and now Im driving a 675cc bike on open roads and motorways. I have to say I am ****e at cornering. I was fine in training, but when it comes to 70mph motorway turns or even 50-60mph country roads I'm finding myself exiting corners on a line I didnt plan for. Usually wide. It really bothers me.

I suppose the question is how does someone train himself for this?

I already told the school I'd be interested in further training post-test but they said it's best to come back in a few months because its too soon..

Have you considered doing the California Superbike School in Mondello?

EGOSHEA

Allow me to interject with another fantastically clueless question from a beginner:

I can't find where to attach my tax disc on the bike. Is there a standard place or what's the deal?

cantdecide

I might be leaving myself open to attack here but I'd be reasonably confident in saying that you need to buy a holder and fix it to an exhaust hang.


<runs for cover......>

alanmc

EGOSHEA wrote: »

Allow me to interject with another fantastically clueless question from a beginner:

I can't find where to attach my tax disc on the bike. Is there a standard place or what's the deal?

Well on any bike I've ever had, there's no standard place no. You can buy tax disc holders which are effectively round plastic containers with a tab with a hole in it. You can get expensive metal shiny ones as well if you're into that sort of thing.

There are some fixings on my swingarm where the rear mudguard is supposed to be attached. I just bolted the tax disc holder on here. If you have a mudguard on your bike, then remove one of the screws/bolts and sandwich the tax disc holder in there.

EGOSHEA

lol Thanks lads. I had bought the plastic holder alright! - just didn't know where to bolt this (didn't want to place it too near the exhaust because it might burn, etc). Cheers.

KamiKazi

Tax disc looks great attached to the number plate screws, unfortunately they have a habit of loosening and obscuring it a bit :cool:

alanmc

EGOSHEA wrote: »

lol Thanks lads. I had bought the plastic holder alright! - just didn't know where to bolt this (didn't want to place it too near the exhaust because it might burn, etc). Cheers.

Putting it on the exhaust hanger probably isn't bad. The heat doesn't transfer up that far.

Just make sure it's out of the way of any moving parts. If you do go for the swing arm solution, make sure you put it on the outside of the fixing .... far away from your chain/sprocket.

ArphaRima

Have you considered doing the California Superbike School in Mondello?

I live in the UK with my bike so I hadn't. But I was considering some kind of training like that. However I was told that track training is not quite road-useable..

I am however planning a trip to the 'ring during the summer so it'll be a case of sink or swim then anyway!