IRISH EVOLUTION QUALIFIERS 2010

roy nelson

i think it was some guy from the north who plays ken, chris mc mahon hes called. thats wjat i heard anyway.

Xinkai

I was told there was no tournament today, only a team tournament.

I was also told the evo quals will be held next week.

meducation

is xinkai right or do we have a winner:D

Sairus

Xinkai is indeed correct - a proper announcment will probably come later tonight or tomorrow.

FutureGuy

One sec...the qualifier didnt go ahead? Why?

D4RK ONION

I am shocked and horrified. And shocked!

/calls Terry for the scoop

Owwmykneecap

because all you useless ****ers didnt show up.

Generic_name01

Sorry I've misunderstood what peeps are saying but does this mean inferno aint next week? Or just that the finals for today are next week?

unky chop chop

Update us folks, Who's goin to Vegas, playin SF and blowin all thier funds on 2 nickel brassers?

D4RK ONION

Terry informs me that it didn't go ahead because of a small turn out, so it's being run at the inferno. Though I'm not clear if the winner of INferno gets it or if it's a seperate tourney. Either way, I saved myself €20 so woo \o/

A-Trak

I've some feedback on this event that I'd like to put out there.

With the utmost respect to those involved running and promoting the Evo qualifiers, as I can appreciate that it's a lot of hard work for little thanks, but a statement or update needs to be forthcoming as to both why both the venue was changed, and why now the actual event was postponed with absolutely no prior warning to anyone, especially those who may have travelled.

Also, I and a few others asked questions regarding the funding of the tourney and was it run for profit or purely as breaking even event to support the community.
There were no answers to any of those questions or posts nor were they even acknowledged, or even where the prizes were sourced, how the flights were funded etc.
This immediately put doubts in my mind anyway that it was a "community driven," venture. It may well have been, but no-one deigned to answer these questions, hence the doubts.
(I'm quite happy attending for profit tourneys as long as it's transparent and up front, I don't expect people to give up all their time for zero payback.)

And to those that may say the main reason it was cancelled, is that no one "Bothered to turn up," why didn't you ask when would have been the most popular date to run it on?

Why didn't people "bother" to turn up???
If you even take a look at the inferno date preference poll, 60% of respondents said 29th of May didn't suit them, so it's a safe bet that even had it not been an Evo qualifier but an Inferno tourney, only 40% of a normal Inferno attendance would have been there.

Lads I'm really not trying to have a dig or stir, and personally due to real life work and personal commitments both of which I did a lot to try to move, I would have been there otherwise.
And commendations on the PR to other sites, the event got worldwide coverage on a level never seen before and I can appreciate there were time constraints.....

But.......

• You set a a winner takes all tourney on a date that 60% of people had already stated they couldn't attend had you checked, initially in a location that makes it harder and costlier for further flung players to attend?

• Even when the venue was changed obviously due to low numbers, (despite no statement on it which again leads to questions,) it was cancelled with NO prior notice?

• Nothing about the entry fee was distributed vs costs, or how the prizes were funded despite direct questions specifically asking this?

No feedback was asked for, questions were passed over, info already available was ignored.
The good work was undone by the lack of basic work.

Transparency is what's needed now lads, I haven't even a clue who I'm addressing this to for ****s sake, which proves a lot of points.

Owwmykneecap

A very fair post with a lot of accurate points in it.

Two things: I, despite spreading the news of this as far as i could, have absolutely nothing to do with it. At all.

Also: I agree re:dates etc, short notice which ment most people couldn't come, however, I (rightly or wrongly) also picked up a vibe of; I can't win outright, I'm not going to pay towards X,Y,Zs trip to vegas.


As regards "for profit" tourneys actually, no I'm not cool with them at all really.
Certainly not without real effort and expense and hiring a venue (out of your own pocket)

Don't let this post distract from A-Traks though, I'm just clarifying my position

Sabre0001

Owwmykneecap wrote: »

however, I (rightly or wrongly) also picked up a vibe of; I can't win outright, I'm not going to pay towards X,Y,Zs trip to vegas.


As regards "for profit" tourneys actually, no I'm not cool with them at all really.
Certainly not without real effort and expense and hiring a venue (out of your own pocket)

Don't let this post distract from A-Traks though, I'm just clarifying my position

Just going to pick up on a couple of points here...Especially the first as D4RK ONION got some abuse for it. It was a tournament with ONE prize (I notice that the TE stick was mentioned less and less) and a €20 entry. A while back I posted a link to a podcast that talked about building a scene and community - one of the big points was giving people stuff - spot prizes for example. Surely a link with Capcom, etc. could have gotten that.

People have been price concious enough with Inferno - where there are top 3 prizes. So by increasing the price, the interest level IS going to drop. I'm all for attending to prove your mettle, etc. but at the end of the day, there has to be an incentive. The average player is certainly not going to show up just to pay for someones flights.

Why aren't you ok with "profit" tournaments? At the end of the day, certain things are business...If tournaments make profit, they can afford to pay staff, or get in professional coverage such as QuadV. Or actually survive in the case of economic downturn or sponsor drops (bye bye ESWC, CPL, potentially WCG, etc).



On the main issue, can you (not you Owmykneecaps) really cancel an event like this? All the PR is undone - is the same message to be passed out to all these sites for the event next week? Is there a tournament next week? Are there two tournaments? How much does each cost? Was it cancelled because the people that the organisers would have preferred to see with a chance of hitting EVO didn't attend?



At the end of the day, I'm sure there was a part of "not bothering" to show up. But there wasn't much incentive unless you are a certain top 4 player. It is tough for any gaming event to attract attendees (World Cyber Games Qualifiers also had this issue.....except for Halo 3) - but WCG also had goodie bags for top 3 (a point that they should have advertised). Now, there wasn't a lot of incentive for Dublin-ites...And then, there is the FG scene in Limerick / Cork - €20 train, 5 hours travelling, €20 tournament fee....3 games (max 900 seconds). gg - hometime.

Sisko

I've been up drinking all night and I'm only home now and I'm reading all this so I'm just gonna lay out **** bluntly before I go to sleep.

1

Basically the whole evo thing, not organised to the level of our usual standard IE organised on the forums with every step and aspect discussed by everyone.

This plus a combination of bad luck = pathetic turn of for what should be our biggest and most important event in the history of this community. We've had more people at casuals.

2

Inferno 10, organised in our usual style, date agreed apon by many , from the get go it's looking like we'll have our usual high number of players.

3

The EVO thing has been pretty hyped up outside of our community and it'd look so bad if it turned out to be a disaster it would have been if we went with it this weekend.

Logical solution:

Change inferno 10 to the evo event since so many have said they can make it down for that date.

The 10 people that were there (others arrived later on) agreed this was the best solution, this is damage control at this stage like.

Gamesnash.ie: Pat

Morning guys.

I just wanted to put it out there that the venue change was not our doing and was a decision made by the organisers.

We were informed ourselves at late notice that the venue was not required. We've had a couple of enquiries about this and Gamesnash Live even had a phone call yesterday from a couple of guys looking for directions who were heading for the tournament. We had to tell them it was moved to XGC but apparently they were already on a bus to Dunboyne at that point. They weren't happy and hung up before it could be explained to them that it wasn't our fault. I'm not having a go at the organisers here but obviously I need to protect our reputation so I do need to clarify that the venue change was not caused by us. The organisers will no doubt explain the situation in due course.

I think it's a big shame that the event was not successful even at the changed venue and there's clearly a few lessons to be learned for future planning etc. The coverage given to this event was fantastic and shows that there is an appetite for this kind of tournament here and I hope it can be attempted again in the future.

Sisko

Jesus christ that's horrible to hear, ****in hell.

bush

Sisko wrote: »

Logical solution:

Change inferno 10 to the evo event since so many have said they can make it down for that date.

The 10 people that were there (others arrived later on) agreed this was the best solution, this is damage control at this stage like.

The general feeling on irc was that Inferno should go ahead next week and the 1st of the month from now on. We have been trying to get a set date for inferno too long to just go and change it when we have finally agreed on the date.

Doctor DooM

I'm going to try to deal with this as it's my job to look after the forums and because there's no committee to look after these things and make any kind of official statement, I will try to tackle it as best and as honestly as I can. I hope it's appreciated that I'm not an organiser of this event, although I was there and I have talked to both the organiser of Inferno and this tournament.

A-trak I am not picking on you here, it's just your post hits alot of points I'd like to address, so...

A-Trak wrote: »

With the utmost respect to those involved running and promoting the Evo qualifiers, as I can appreciate that it's a lot of hard work for little thanks, but a statement or update needs to be forthcoming as to both why both the venue was changed, and why now the actual event was postponed with absolutely no prior warning to anyone, especially those who may have travelled.

It was an extremely disappointing turnout. On the day there was a discussion. I was involved myself. Chunkis asked if anyone minded if we postponed, saying we'd have a tournament anyway, which we did. No on who was there objected.

Of course you could argue that it should never have been on this day, but I basically consider this argument null and void because there's no committee. Anyone can organise and advertise any event any way they like under current circumstances- because there's no committee to deal with these things, to give them legitimacy or to apply a 4 eye principle, which this even t clearly needed.

A-Trak wrote: »

Also, I and a few others asked questions regarding the funding of the tourney and was it run for profit or purely as breaking even event to support the community.
There were no answers to any of those questions or posts nor were they even acknowledged, or even where the prizes were sourced, how the flights were funded etc.
This immediately put doubts in my mind anyway that it was a "community driven," venture. It may well have been, but no-one deigned to answer these questions, hence the doubts.
(I'm quite happy attending for profit tourneys as long as it's transparent and up front, I don't expect people to give up all their time for zero payback.)

I know how this event was being funded. I didn't feel I should discuss it so I didn't.

A couple of forum members 1 of whom doesn't wish to be named were taking the entire cost above the entry fees on their chin.

I believe it is a considerale loss for those people.

I now feel to be honest I have to discuss it, so...

I would like to point out that I called months ago that money would become an issue, that we needed a committee to keep things open and on the straight and narrow or eventually, an event would come along and people would ask questions.

As it stands we have no way to check finances of an event. But I hope this answers your questions.

A-Trak wrote: »

And to those that may say the main reason it was cancelled, is that no one "Bothered to turn up," why didn't you ask when would have been the most popular date to run it on?

Why didn't people "bother" to turn up???
If you even take a look at the inferno date preference poll, 60% of respondents said 29th of May didn't suit them, so it's a safe bet that even had it not been an Evo qualifier but an Inferno tourney, only 40% of a normal Inferno attendance would have been there.

Lads I'm really not trying to have a dig or stir, and personally due to real life work and personal commitments both of which I did a lot to try to move, I would have been there otherwise.
And commendations on the PR to other sites, the event got worldwide coverage on a level never seen before and I can appreciate there were time constraints.....

But.......

• You set a a winner takes all tourney on a date that 60% of people had already stated they couldn't attend had you checked, initially in a location that makes it harder and costlier for further flung players to attend?

• Even when the venue was changed obviously due to low numbers, (despite no statement on it which again leads to questions,) it was cancelled with NO prior notice?

• Nothing about the entry fee was distributed vs costs, or how the prizes were funded despite direct questions specifically asking this?

No feedback was asked for, questions were passed over, info already available was ignored.
The good work was undone by the lack of basic work.

Transparency is what's needed now lads, I haven't even a clue who I'm addressing this to for ****s sake, which proves a lot of points.

I agree. I must admit I wasn't happy with the attendance on the day, but these things happen. People have lives. However:

It's our OWN FAULT we don't have transparancy. It's our OWN FAULT we don't have a clear person to address this to. We've had loads of time, and we haven't done anything to address it. We need transparancy yes but without having someone we nominate to be the person who conveys that transparancy how do we enforce that at all?

Just for the record, from talking to people myself yesterday, I believe next weekend will be a tournament, used for seeding , but will be for the EVO trip.

If anyone wants to know more than that, I don't know- I am not involved in the running of inferno.

Xinkai

@GameSnash Pat: I don't think anyone would dare put this on you or your business as far as i remember the change in venue came 2 days before the event. Not only that but people said to the organizer as long as 2 weeks ago that it should be changed to the XGC to accomodate people travelling, but the organizer said no it will be fine...

Pat on behalf of all the fellow FG Boardsies and myself i'd like 1st to say thanks for putting us up and letting us have this tournament in GS in the 1st place, a few of us got the idea that you didn't want tournaments down there so it must've been a hard call for you to allow us to have the quals there, and after this it'll only be an uphill battle to convince you to let us hold another one in GS...

And 2nd, just to apologise on behalf of everyone for everything that went on or if you lost any other potential customers/bookings for that day, we want to try keep a good relationship with you and GS. You did us a favour back in April, and now yu have to take abuse down the phone because somebody didn't inform a few people & ended up going down to Dunboyme for nothing.

I think we should repay you & apologise by giving you back that lost business & arranging just a casual day down in GS again sometime in the near future.

Orim

Myself and ChopperByrne are running Inferno.

We have discussed it and Inferno 10 will be postponed until July with the EVO qualifiers being held next week.

This is my understanding, however I was not there yesterday but this seems to be what is happening.

As Doom said the transparency and not knowing who's in charge is the communities fault.

It has been tried to get some kind of proper organisation going but there was minimal input. IMO the following thread should be 10 times longer with every point and issue being thrashed to within an inch of it's life.

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055885571


EDIT : Pat, I was not involved in this tournament but I would like to extend apologies to you for the late notice and any ill-effects this has had on your business. I hope this won't sour you towards this community as we do appreciate everything you have done for us in the past and hopefully all the things you will do for us in the future.

Doctor DooM

Yeah Pat, same for me. We're well aware this has nothing to do with you.

With reference to the psot above- I am not happy with the way things went, much like other posters.

However if people wish to complain about the event, I would invite them to also provide solutions. As it's easy- and I am not saying incorrect- to give out about stuff but it's much harder to make things right.

Cobelcog

I do not think changing Inferno to the EVO Qualifiers will do much good. While I'm speaking for myself here, others may share this thought process. It's not that I was more willing to go down to the date of Inferno than the date of the EVO Quals but rather that I am just more willing to go to Inferno.

A trip to EVO as a prize just isn't appealing to some people. That they don't want to go by themselves, that they couldn't afford a trip to Vegas, that they couldn't make the time for the trip etc. While I do appreciate the intent and the meaning of this tournament, it's just not within some people's interests. I wouldn't want to spend money travelling then spend more money than usual on entering a tournament that I wouldn't make use of if I won.

Also, it wasn't a date decided for a tournament, it was a date decided for Inferno. The standard money prize for top 3 tournament. Some may just prefer this to the EVO qualifiers. July is so far away, I don't think postponing that much will do much good. Perhaps it is worth considering an alternative to outright replacement.

Of course, this is just my take on the whole situation.

bush

If its delayed till july it will be 3 months since the last one. So much for making it more regular

Orim

we have the Inferno thread for discussion, I think would be best to keep this thread about the EVO event.

I want to make the schedule more regular is to have a set time period that it will be on, this means that there will be clashes and in order to keep the regular schedule I believe that the tournament should be postponed. I am willing to discuss this in the Inferno thread.

Doctor DooM

Personally I can't see why next weekend can't be called Inferno 10, run as inferno 10, only the first prize is the evo trip.

No changes to cost, nothing like that.

Gamesnash.ie: Pat

Xinkai wrote: »

@GameSnash Pat: I don't think anyone would dare put this on you or your business as far as i remember the change in venue came 2 days before the event. Not only that but people said to the organizer as long as 2 weeks ago that it should be changed to the XGC to accomodate people travelling, but the organizer said no it will be fine...

Pat on behalf of all the fellow FG Boardsies and myself i'd like 1st to say thanks for putting us up and letting us have this tournament in GS in the 1st place, a few of us got the idea that you didn't want tournaments down there so it must've been a hard call for you to allow us to have the quals there, and after this it'll only be an uphill battle to convince you to let us hold another one in GS...

And 2nd, just to apologise on behalf of everyone for everything that went on or if you lost any other potential customers/bookings for that day, we want to try keep a good relationship with you and GS. You did us a favour back in April, and now yu have to take abuse down the phone because somebody didn't inform a few people & ended up going down to Dunboyme for nothing.

I think we should repay you & apologise by giving you back that lost business & arranging just a casual day down in GS again sometime in the near future.

Thanks for that

Just to clarify our position on group bookings / tournaments etc. We've no issues at all with these. We are however realists and I make a point about being open and honest with all our customers and people we interact with and that extends to Gamesnash Live as well.

My personal opinion which I voiced here was that our venue in Dunboyne would not be the most suitable for your regular events. This was / is because the location being outside the city centre makes it awkward for those travelling from a distance and secondly that the we can't afford to match the prices that you guys get in the XGC. We're a different model with more space per console etc so each console to rent out takes more space and has to earn more per hour than the consoles in the XGC. I felt and do feel that our venue would be ideal for use on special occasions where you guys wouldn't mind paying a bit extra to have the comfort etc that we provide over your usual spots but it is a hard sell for the wider community to come to Dunboyne on a regular basis.

Therefore for me it made sense to hold a bigger more prestigious event at Gamesnash Live and I thought that such an event would give people the incentive to travel that bit further. It does seem that timing was unfortunate and not enough notice was given for this particular event and the numbers could not be achieved but that doesn't mean we're not suitable for a future "big" event.

In reality yes we did lose out with the sudden cancellation as we had turned away other bookings and had advertised as being closed to walk in gaming for that Saturday but we don't expect you guys to make up for it by coming out for a casual you wouldn't have come out for without this happening. There's no hard feelings here towards the fighting community in general and the organisers have pledged to make a gesture towards the extra staff costs we had put on for the day. We consider it a lesson learned but no relationships broken. You are of course more than welcome to come out anytime for any reason but as I said for the community in general I would say it needs to be a special event rather than the casuals. There's also the possibillity of other Gamesnash Live venues opening in more accessible locations to your wider community so there's plenty of scope there in the long run.

bush

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Personally I can't see why next weekend can't be called Inferno 10, run as inferno 10, only the first prize is the evo trip.

No changes to cost, nothing like that.

The problem is a lot of people cant or wont go to evo so the prize would be just wasted.

Doctor DooM

Bush80 wrote: »

The problem is a lot of people cant or wont go to evo so the prize would be just wasted.

In that case the prize for second/ first could be reversed? So first could get the cash prize?

Come on guys, this is for evo. Can we start thinking about coming up with solutions instead of problems.

Azza

If we can get in contact with those people who tried to get to Gamesnash and where unaware of the venue change I be in favour of them being compensated for the travel expenses out of the reverse community money.

Azza

No the community has some money left over from the last Inferno, thats where I suggest the compenstation come from. I'll rephrase my previous post.