lbs v online

kevvhayes

do people find that they are leaving their lbs in preferance for buying online? is there better value to be had online or is the face to face interaction with an actual person in a shop still an invaluable service?

JacksonHeightsOwn

i buy very little online actually

but saying that, im buying a new groupset this week, and i can get it in England for somewhere between 650, and 700 euro

yet ive been quoted over 1000 euro by a shop here,

i still belive the mark up in Ireland is more than England, as the shops here refuse to buy big quantities, preferring to buy small batches from their suppliers,

obviously to minimise their losses as our market is alot smaller, but when you're quoted 1 and a half times more than an english shop can sell it for, you simply cant say no

Bluefoam

A bit of both. Depends on what I'm looking for. It'd be a shame for some lbs's fall victim to internet buying.

anoble66

at the moment I always buy online, having said that a new lbs is opening right next to me so as long as their prices dont completely take the p!ss I will support them and buy what I can from them

papac

as long as their prices dont completely take the p!ss

This is the crux of the matter. Sometimes things don't actually cost that much more in your lbs. Sometimes they do take the p!ss. I always ring around the shops before ordering online and do shop local if I can.

Some LBS always rip you off. You just have to work out for yourself who they are.

face to face interaction with an actual person in a shop still an invaluable service?

Very much depends on who that person is. I have met lbs staff that I wouldn't trust to pump my tyres.

Chartsengrafs

I've started going to a local shop over the last 6 months or so, and have gotten to know the guys in the shop. Went in yesterday with a mudguard bought a few weeks previously (used twice-fell apart), and they didn't ask for a receipt, explanation or anything at all. Just handed me another right away and apologised. They're just incredibly sound in general really, and never try to sell me overpriced stuff I don't need.

I've bought my fair share from Wiggle etc, but sometimes there's a benefit to paying a slight premium and buying local. But of course it depends on what you're buying, and your budget / needs etc.

Lumen

I have bought one proper bike in my adult life from an lbs (about 15 years ago), plus a kids bike.

In the last year I have bought eight bikes over the internet and two second hand. About half of the "internet" purchases were from proper shops who I contacted initially after browing their website.

I am completely open to the idea of using a local shop for a bike purchase, but find that I have no compelling reason to do so.

I often use local shops for clothing, accessories and spannering. None have a problem working on bikes they haven't sold.

keenan110

I find if you go into the lbs and quote them the internet price they'll usually give you a much better price! I'm happy to give them the business in a lot of cases!

Golfanatic

my lbs is fairly sound mainly as i work there. but i was orignally going to buy a 105 groupset from there. your man was going to give it to me for 450 euros an apsolutely savage price. but i am however going ultegra sl . i much prefer my lbs.

JacksonHeightsOwn

Golfanatic wrote: »

my lbs is fairly sound mainly as i work there. but i was orignally going to buy a 105 groupset from there. your man was going to give it to me for 450 euros an apsolutely savage price. but i am however going ultegra sl . i much prefer my lbs.

do you sell campagnolo?

bcmf

I remember talking to the lad in my lbs , who is a decent enough skin, and talking about the whole internet vs lbs thing. He said that a lot of the time online retailers are selling stuff lower then what the wholesale price is here.

Bluefoam

I spoke to a LBS & he told me he orders parts from chain reactions

bcmf

Bluefoam wrote: »

I spoke to a LBS & he told me he orders parts from chain reactions

:eek: so it is cheaper to buy from CRC then wholesalers here!! or do they use CRC as a wholeslaer

Lumen

bcmf wrote: »

:eek: so it is cheaper to buy from CRC then wholesalers here!! or do they use CRC as a wholeslaer

I have also had a shop tell me that CRC is often around the same price as a distributor.

It's not entirely surprising: economies of scale, disintermediation and all that.

There are plenty of reasons to buy stuff from a local shop, it just depends on how much you value the sticker price over other considerations.

Murph100

Some Irish distributors really make life very difficult on the LBS here, charging way higher wholesale prices to Southern LBS than they do to the shops up North, despite coming from the same warehouse !!

How can the guys here compete ? They cant sell goods at wholesale price.

Level the playing field and I'll happily pay a premium to the LBS

Lumen

Murph100 wrote: »

How can the guys here compete?

By destroying the business of the distributor through the intelligent application of market forces.

Murph100

Easier said than done, especially when dealing with warranties, the LBS HAS to go to the official distributor for that region.

Manufacturers also go apesh!t when a distributor supplies outside their specific appointed territory.

Lumen

Murph100 wrote: »

Easier said than done, especially when dealing with warranties, the LBS HAS to go to the official distributor for that region.

Manufacturers also go apesh!t when a distributor supplies outside their specific appointed territory.

There are various strategies to counter this. You can import and rebrand generic frames (like Humphries do), or "design" your own in collaboration (like Planet-X do), or create a market for a new brand (e.g. CSS with Lapierre).

Basically, if Trek (or whoever) are pissing you off then don't sell Trek.

A lot of Irish shops just seem to be operating with a business mindset several decades old, in complete denial of the threats and opportunities brought by the internet.

edit: correction - I have been informed that Humphries design their own frames, which are then manufacturered in the far east (in common with almost all other CF frames) and then finished in Ireland. This put their manufacturing model (for those parts) in the same rough territory as Planet-X, although presumably with much lower volume.

Bluefoam

I'm amazed by how brand driven the bike community are here... I went bike shopping recently & was shocked that most shops sold the exact same models. It got very boring after a while... I know its a small market, but there should be some variety.

papac

most shops sold the exact same models

The public herd wants what the public herd gets.Baa!!

xz

Unfortunately for us in lreland, we have a higher VAT rate than the UK. That is a factor in the prices we have to pay in a lbs

Lumen

xz wrote: »

Unfortunately for us in lreland, we have a higher VAT rate than the UK.

Not for much longer, I would wager.

ROK ON

Bluefoam wrote: »

I'm amazed by how brand driven the bike community are here... I went bike shopping recently & was shocked that most shops sold the exact same models. It got very boring after a while... I know its a small market, but there should be some variety.

Trek and Giant I would warrant. These are more than likely good bikes, however there are multitudes of smaller brands that would probably be willing to do a direct deal and cut out the middleman.

Murph100

Well to be fair, 3.5 % difference in Vat is not enough to make me forget about buying at my LBS, and is outside their control, but when you look at 30%+ differences, you then have to wonder who is creaming it, and I'll bet the distributor is the main culprit.

ROK ON

Murph100 wrote: »

. . you then have to wonder who is creaming it, and I'll bet the distributor is the main culprit.

True. I cant see why it persists apart from inertia. In many forms of business it is simply no longer necessary. My wife went to a local mechanic recently for a repair job on the car. He advised her to buy part online and he would fit it. If she bought from him the cost would have been astranomical.

I would love to hear why many LBS's continue to operate as they do? Is it down to the fact that you need to order a certain amount of bikes.

kennyb3

Lumen wrote: »

Not for much longer, I would wager.

agreed anybody thinking of buying should get motoring

furiousox

kennyb3 wrote: »

agreed anybody thinking of buying should get motoring

http://instantrimshot.com/

Lumen

furiousox wrote: »

http://instantrimshot.com/

...

Google wrote:

Diagnostic page for instantrimshot.com

What is the current listing status for instantrimshot.com?

Site is listed as suspicious - visiting this website may harm your computer.

Part of this site was listed for suspicious activity 2 time(s) over the past 90 days.

furiousox

Hmm, no problem with this site on IE.

Delete link just in case and replace with "BADUM-TISH!!"

Beasty

kennyb3 wrote: »

agreed anybody thinking of buying should get motoring

UK "Emergency" Budget is set for 22 June. However they are extremely unlikely to introduce an increase without a month or so lead-in time, as a lot of retailers cannot change their systems overnight (many struggled with the temporary decrease introduced for 2009, when they had 1 month's notice)

Having said that, my money's on an increase to 20% (probably with effect from 1 August) - that would bring the differential down to 1%.

xz

It's the 80's all over again!!!!!!, now we just need Nicholas to emulate his father, someone to do the Kelly role and we're there

imola94

ROK ON wrote: »

True. I cant see why it persists apart from inertia. In many forms of business it is simply no longer necessary. My wife went to a local mechanic recently for a repair job on the car. He advised her to buy part online and he would fit it. If she bought from him the cost would have been astranomical.

I would love to hear why many LBS's continue to operate as they do? Is it down to the fact that you need to order a certain amount of bikes.

ROK ON, it's not as simple as you make out here by using the mechanic analogy. Now I have no idea what part your wife needed for her car but I would be quite confident that the mechanic advised her to buy a part and not the exact part that he was offering and most certainly not a genuine manufacturers part. Of course there are companies that offer cheap copies of parts in all businesses including the cycle business but how sure can you be of quality, what warranties come with these parts. I personally buy my cycle stuff( just starting btw) from my local shop and some o line. I bought the new bike from the local shop even though I was getting a slightly better deal elsewhere because I felt that if I ever had a problem and needed it sorted fairly quick that my local shop would look after me.

JacksonHeightsOwn

ROK ON wrote: »

True. I cant see why it persists apart from inertia. In many forms of business it is simply no longer necessary. My wife went to a local mechanic recently for a repair job on the car. He advised her to buy part online and he would fit it. If she bought from him the cost would have been astranomical.

I would love to hear why many LBS's continue to operate as they do? Is it down to the fact that you need to order a certain amount of bikes.

i was talking to my missus today about the price differences to shops here, and places in britain

she came up with a great idea

why dont a group of smaller shops join up for bigger quantity orders, therefore maximising their buying power, and minimising the cost to the consumer

genius if you ask me

kevvhayes

great idea. your missus is a genius!

blorg

@imola94- bike componentry is highly standardised and there are very very few manufacturers in the business. A Shimano part is a Shimano part.

I think local bike shops are getting far more competitive and I would buy locally myself unless the difference was very large.

Beginners I think are well advised to buy locally as they may need the backup of a good shop. I am somewhat mechanically comfortable now (and still not with everything) but it took several years and many hours tinkering where a competent mechanic would have it done in five minutes. I also broke stuff during the learning process! The difference on a bike would want to be in the several hundreds, I'd say over 10%- it often can be however.

Lumen

chrisbonnie wrote: »

why dont a group of smaller shops join up for bigger quantity orders, therefore maximising their buying power, and minimising the cost to the consumer

Bulk buying is inefficient because it leads to excessive stock levels. This is one of the reasons why shops must have such high gross margins - they are often required by manufacturers/distributors to hold stock in a number of sizes across the range, stock that depreciates heavily at year end.

Good value requires efficiency, efficiency requires "just in time" ordering, which works against bulk ordering.

So ultimately you have the situation where the shop ordering a frameset or a part from someone like CRC can be cheaper than buying via the distributor. Why shouldn't it be?

As I see it, the CRCs of the world are acting as both distributors and internet retailers. Bike shops can "add value" by assembling custom bikes, doing servicing/repairs, and advising on issues of fit, component selection etc.

If you want the added value, you should be able to buy the product from a shop (at a small premium), if you don't then you should be able to buy from the distributor/internet retailer direct. There needn't be any difference between the products available from either - that's a needless market distortion.

If the distributor is offering poor value, they should be bypassed. If no-one stocked Trek, no-one would buy Trek, and Trek would go out of business.

ROK ON

Strange thing about this regular debate is that if you shop around you can get good value in LBS.

I find that CSS are often cheaper than online for tyrrs tubes etc.
I have bought two bikes from Worldwide in Clonmel and couldn't get them cheaper online. Plus u have gotten great pre and post sale service. One of the bikes I purchased another boardsie had same model and sold it for for about 15% less than I paid for it new.

I bought an Orbea from Stagg in Lucan and the only price differential at the time versus UK online was VAT differential.

In December Eurocycles were selling off the 2009 FELT range for between 200-400 cheaper than same on Wiggle.

Some LBS are providing value and service. They can't obviously do it across all range of parts and frames but on some.

They only thing that seems to always be better value online is clothing (apart from Rapha which is always ridiculously overpriced).

blorg

ROK ON wrote: »

I find that CSS are often cheaper than online for tyrrs tubes etc.

I have yet to see a tube in CSS for €2.25.