Muslim/EDL debate

irishconvert

Thought you might be interested in this debate between an English Muslim revert and a supporter of the EDL (English Defence League):

http://youtube.com/watch?v=VlZeB_1nbyg

Modern day politics is governed by a climate of tension and confusion over what constitutes British and English Values. What defines the English culture? Is Multiculturalism a threat to a cohesive society? Can Muslims live in the UK with non-Secular beliefs, under some measure of Shariah laws? Will this really threaten Britain?

What is the future of English Identity?

Show: The Alternative Platform

With guest Panelists:

Paul Williams - English convert to Islam, Senior Member and Speaker for the Muslim Debate Initiative public discussion forum.

Bill Baker - Experienced English Nationalist Activist, organizer of the Harrow Mosque demonstration, former member of the English Democrat party, now member of the English Defence Leauge (EDL) - [Bill is not an official spokesman for the EDL].

g5fd6ow0hseima

A ultra right wing thug wasnt the best person to put up against a moderate muslim in fairness. I personally would have liked if the debate was between a moderate and an atheist - in other words, someone with a brain.

Also, I fail to see how mocking Mohammed is racist? How is mocking a religious prophet racist? I always took racism to be the belief in one's own superiority over other races of the human species. Mocking prophets is simply done so from the point of view that such unfounded ideas will always attract ridicule, for example, if I believed in the tooth fairy I would expect to be laughed at, but in the case of prophets, they are immune from criticism and in this case, the person being charged with racism. Is that what religious people have to resort to in order to defend their views?

Therefore I would like for someone to explain how mocking characters from religious texts qualifies as racism.

wes

Paula Incalculable Ferryboat wrote: »

Therefore I would like for someone to explain how mocking characters from religious texts qualifies as racism.

Well, it can be racist in certain context. Now, if someone were to draw the Prophet Muhammad pbuh for example, with exagerated semetic features e.g. hook nose etc, than in that instance the drawing could be called racist. If the mocking involved racist sterotypes, than yes it would fair to call such mocking racist.

Of course, if such mocking doesn't involved racist sterotypes, then it would not be considered racist.

**EDIT**
I would also like to point out that the EDL, and the BNP, have tried to hide behind criticism of Religion, to defend there racist remarks. Its sad that such groups are hijacking legitimate criticism, to excuse there own racism. So, basically instead of harping on about the "Paki's", they instead talk about Islam and Muslims, and claim there are not racist, as Muslims aren't a race, but the problem is that they are attacking the same people they have always attacked, but just decided to refer to them in a different way, so there claims are bull.
**END EDIT**

g5fd6ow0hseima

wes wrote: »

Well, it can be racist in certain context. Now, if someone were to draw the Prophet Muhammad pbuh for example, with exagerated semetic features e.g. hook nose etc, than in that instance the drawing could be called racist. If the mocking involved racist sterotypes, than yes it would fair to call such mocking racist.

Of course, if such mocking doesn't involved racist sterotypes, then it would not be considered racist.

Yeah, but in this case the joke was about toilet paper, and deemed to be racist.

wes wrote: »

**EDIT**
I would also like to point out that the EDL, and the BNP, have tried to hide behind criticism of Religion, to defend there racist remarks. Its sad that such groups are hijacking legitimate criticism, to excuse there own racism. So, basically instead of harping on about the "Paki's", they instead talk about Islam and Muslims, and claim there are not racist, as Muslims aren't a race, but the problem is that they are attacking the same people they have always attacked, but just decided to refer to them in a different way, so there claims are bull.
**END EDIT**

The BNP are the national front in suits, that's the best way to put them. The EDL? did this group originate from a pub in a council estate or something? Why even entertain these people? What are the Alternative Platform trying to prove? That a small minority of uneducated xenophobes are against them? Why not debate with educated, well informed atheists or staunch secularists?

wes

Paula Incalculable Ferryboat wrote: »

Yeah, but in this case the joke was about toilet paper, and deemed to be racist.

Yes, but you were asking a general question, so I gave a general answer.

Paula Incalculable Ferryboat wrote: »

The BNP are the national front in suits, that's the best way to put them. The EDL? did this group originate from a pub in a council estate or something? Why even entertain these people? What are the Alternative Platform trying to prove? That a small minority of uneducated xenophobes are against them? Why not debate with educated, well informed atheists or staunch secularists?

I completely agree with you. It make no sense to have the EDL debate anyone.

Jazzy

aint no racism in mohammed pics. aint no insult either.

if you really want there to be, they can exist... but so can many things exist, if you really want them to.
the limit of our nature is truley our most defining aspect

wes

I taught the following from the Guardian on the EDL was rather interesting:

The English Defence League uncovered

Excellent video exposing the EDL for what they are.

I Drink It Up!

Well, we all know what way the Guardian swings. They even hate farmers.