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Bus Eireann Driver

javax6

Hi,

Just today I had an altercation with a bus driver on the 109a, from Navan to Dublin. I've written almost a complete letter that I'm planning on sending to the Regional Manager. I'd like to post it here to see what other people make of this. The letter is completely genuine and I'm not hiding any facts about what happened, so please let me know what you think.

START

The following incident happened at 9pm on Sunday the 16th of May. The bus in question was the 109a – SC257.

I know the bus driver in question because he drives the 109a regularly and I have been witness to his demanour before. I have also noticed his attitude stands out amonsgt the other bus drivers, in that he is, arrogant, unhelpful and contemptuous to customers.

My mother and I were waiting at the bus stop, and the bus pulled up behind our car and beeped at us to move. I would like to point out at this stage that my mother was not blocking his entry to the bus stop whatsoever, in fact she had taken great care to park away from the stop so that she would not block any bus pulling in. I have noticed him behaving like this to other motorists, he is excessively rude. One example of this, which I noticed a few months past, is when a woman in a car was attempting to pull off from the stop out of his way, but she could not move immediately as the traffic was heavy. He blew the horn of the bus repeatedly and completely unnecessarily, causing the woman some obvious distress.

When he was pulling off from the stop he beeped at my mother again, once again she was not in his way.

At this stage began my contact with him. He shouted at me from the front of the bus “Tell your mother not to park in bus spaces”. His manner was in no way pleasant. His raised voice and insulting tone was very upsetting to me so I walked down to him. I said “Did you say something to me?”.

Again in the same tone used as before and the same raised voice he shouted at me “I said, tell your mother not to park in bus spaces.” I responded “be careful what you say” and proceeded to return to my seat. I would like to take this opportunity to say that my voice was not raised when I said this.

He began shouting at me “Come back here, come back here!” “There are laws for parking in bus spaces and if you don’t like it, I will eject you from this bus right here.”

At this point I started to fear for my safety, as he was shouting very loudly at me and I was unsure what he meant by “ejecting me from the bus.” To be quite honest I feared he would harm me, so threatening was his manner.

I attempted to explain to him that my mother was not blocking his entry to the bus stop whatsoever, in fact she had taken great care to park away from the stop so that she would not block any bus pulling in. He continued to shout over me and would not let me speak. The last thing he said was along the lines of “finding another method of transport”. I had returned to my seat at this stage.

The rest of the journey passed and we arrived at DCU. I walked to the front of the bus and asked this man,

“Would you tell me your name?”
“No I won’t, I’ll tell you the bus number’s on the side of the bus, if you have a problem you take that and away you go.”
“You’re a public servant, yes? I’m entitled to know your name.”
“You’re not entitled to know, the only person that’s entitled to know my name is a Guard, end of story. Take the number of the bus and away you go, I don’t mind at all”
“So what can I take then to identify you?”
“The bus number”
“Where?”
“On the front of it”
“You can’t tell me it?”
“It’s a number, same as a car has a number, a bus has a number.”
“Okay, just want to let you know I’m going to take this further, okay.”
“Your problem is what?”
“The way you’ve spoken to me”
“I asked you to tell your mother, not to park in the bus stop cos it was causing problems for the bus” << Here, this is not what happened, what I got was an insulting shout from the front of the bus, I was not ‘asked’ to do anything. I don't believe this man even has the right to comment on this to me, never mind the fact that he was wrong as I have outlined above, my mother was not in the way.

“You spoke to me in a threatening, abusive manner.”
“Excuse me, you came down to me and said “did you say something to me” and then you said “watch what you’re saying”. You were the one being threatening to me.” << Once again, I did not speak to him in any way that could be contsrued to be threatening. I also said “careful what you say.”

“Take the bus number and report away, go on”
“Okay, I will.”

At this point I walked of the bus and continued on my way.

I'm pretty distressed over this incident and I think that the bus driver was very out of line.

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Comments

danbohan

gabhain7 wrote: »

You're mother appears to have been obstructing a bus stop.

He told you off for it.

You asked him for his name, he said he had no obligation to give it to you. He's correct he doesn't have to give you his name.

You annoyed him about it while driving the bus.

Am I missing something here?

yes you should not be annoying our public servants(yes i know its semi state) or asking them to account for their actions in any meaningful way , its not how its done dear . and so it goes, on and on and on in direland

AlekSmart

Yes you should not be annoying our public servants(yes i know its semi state) or asking them to account for their actions in any meaningful way , its not how its done dear . and so it goes, on and on and on in Ireland

Thanks for that clarification Danbohan,cos the hoary oul public/private chesnut does keep regurgitating at times like this..suffice to say the Bus Eireann/Dublin Bus wages grade pension scheme won`t be facilitating any wild property dealings after 40 years service.

But i`m sure after EVERYbody in this little tableau has accounted for their actions we shall have a clearer picture to view,Yes ...?

Send the letter I say !

Speak Now

If you're this stressed out after such an minor incident then you must be living a nice sheltered life in generally. If i was to get upset over someone as insignificant as that bus driver i'd be riddled with ulcers :pac:

Wishbone Ash

OP - three questions:

1. How did the bus driver know that the car driver was your mother?

2. You say that he behaves like this regularly - does your mother regularly park illegally and cause inconvience to others?

3. If the bus had come into contact with your mother's car, would she have accepted that she was parked illegally and would she have compensated Bus Eireann.

I used to drive a bus. I'd be a lot more calmer than that driver and would rarely sound my horn. I found that the best way of dealing with those who inconvience others by parking in bus stops was to park alongside the offending vehicle but leave it in sight of traffic behind, That traffic could then take it out with the offending driver. Any Gardai in the vicinity will also notice a bus blocking traffic and quickly spot an offending vehicle.

highlydebased

While parking in the bus lane was the wrong thing to do his behaviour was not the best now. While he did nothing "wrong", his manner sucks. Tbh there is nothing that could be done, people are like that sadly, a fact of life. forget about it.

Zoney

It sounds like the OP was not exactly contributing to the driver's day that's for sure. The driver's behaviour might be out of line but it doesn't sound like the OP is in a great position for complaining about it.

I'm with those who are skeptical about the not blocking the bus bay. For many bus bays, there isn't space for the bus to get in/out even if people are legally parked either end of the bay, so I'm skeptical that there was really room for a bus to manoeuvre in/out behind a car actually in the bay, no matter its positioning.

As a frequent bus traveller I can say the drivers have to put up with a *LOT* of nonsense from motorists, not to mention the hassle for passengers too (all the delays from waiting to pull out into traffic as passing motorists are curiously blind to the indicator on the bus and think they are more important than dozens of people).

[Deleted User]

Your mother was in the wrong.....for your sake change your letter to admit that if you still intend sending it

If you ran a pub and had a personality like that Bus Drivers, how many customers do you think you'd have?

The REAL point in this whole thread is that people working with dealing with the public should have the personality to do it.....otherwise look for a job in another profession where customers won't take insult.....like a morgue.

Wonder how many votes he got to appear as the face of Bus Eireann?

Your mother was in the wrong, you were not but Fair play to you for not taking sh!te from him.

javax6

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

OP - three questions:

1. How did the bus driver know that the car driver was your mother?

2. You say that he behaves like this regularly - does your mother regularly park illegally and cause inconvience to others?

3. If the bus had come into contact with your mother's car, would she have accepted that she was parked illegally and would she have compensated Bus Eireann.

I used to drive a bus. I'd be a lot more calmer than that driver and would rarely sound my horn. I found that the best way of dealing with those who inconvience others by parking in bus stops was to park alongside the offending vehicle but leave it in sight of traffic behind, That traffic could then take it out with the offending driver. Any Gardai in the vicinity will also notice a bus blocking traffic and quickly spot an offending vehicle.

1. He saw me getting out of the car. There is no hiding of facts here, and come to think of it, he didn't. He made the assumption.

2. No, this is the first time that this has happened and it was unfortunate. Like I said she was trying to be considerate. Lesson learned here.

3. Fair point.

Admittedly my mother may have been in the wrong, my problem remains with him though, I'll take all the advice given here by the posters.

delly

javax6 wrote: »

I would like to point out at this stage that my mother was not blocking his entry to the bus stop whatsoever, in fact she had taken great care to park away from the stop so that she would not block any bus pulling in.

javax6 wrote: »

Admittedly my mother was in the wrong, my problem remains with him though, I'll take all the advice given here by the posters.

Eh, sounds to me like your story is changing.....

javax6

delly wrote: »

Eh, sounds to me like your story is changing.....

Not at all. There is a space on the side of the road where the stop is. There is a box clearly marked with white lines with the words BUS in the middle. We were parked outside that box. There was a lot of space for the bus to pull in.

Having listened to the posts made here, I have thought it through again and we may have been in the way according to the driver, but that was up to him.

foggy_lad

Using a horn

Only use a horn to:

* warn other road users of on-coming danger, or
* make them aware of your presence for safety reasons when reasonably necessary.

Remember, the horn does not give you the right of way.

Do not use a horn in a built-up area between 23.30hrs and 07.00hrs unless there is a traffic emergency.
http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/good-driving-practice/using-a-horn.html

the bus driver sounds like a nasty bully and needs to be put off the road before he kills someone or causes a serious incident through his bullying behaviour.

your mother was in the right and this pig of a driver was completly wrong to react how he did and also wrong in discussing the matter with you! if he was any kind of a man he would have had the manners to ask your mother to move her car in a civilised manner but this would have implied that he was not skilled enough to drive his bus in and out of the stop in the allocated space.

a woman in a car was attempting to pull off from the stop out of his way, but she could not move immediately as the traffic was heavy. He blew the horn of the bus repeatedly and completely unnecessarily, causing the woman some obvious distress.

dangerous behaviour and more evidence of a bully or someone with issues (maybe overlooked for promotion and a woman got the post?)

i would send the letter in and also send it to several newspapers and include as much detail of this drivers insulting and bullying ways, he needs to be put off the road before someone dies as with behviour like this it is only a matter of time.

Stark

foggy_lad wrote:

your mother was in the right and this pig of a driver was completly wrong to react how he did and also wrong in discussing the matter with you! if he was any kind of a man he would have had the manners to ask your mother to move her car in a civilised manner but this would have implied that he was not skilled enough to drive his bus in and out of the stop in the allocated space.

While I have had issues with bullying drivers and seen some very close calls where they've come very close to killing vulnerable road users while protecting their territory, that paragraph is a complete load of crap. None of us have seen what way his mother was parked so we're not to know if she was in the right or not and if a bus driver has to get out of his bus and walk up to every person who is inconsiderately parked in front of the stop, then the network would never move.

Lando Griffin

foggy_lad wrote: »

Using a horn

Only use a horn to:

* make them aware of your presence for safety reasons when reasonably necessary.

Do not use a horn in a built-up area between 23.30hrs and 07.00hrs unless there is a traffic emergency.

the bus driver sounds like a nasty bully and needs to be put off the road before he kills someone or causes a serious incident through his bullying behaviour.

your mother was in the right and this pig of a driver was completly wrong to react how he did and also wrong in discussing the matter with you! if he was any kind of a man he would have had the manners to ask your mother to move her car in a civilised manner but this would have implied that he was not skilled enough to drive his bus in and out of the stop in the allocated space.

dangerous behaviour and more evidence of a bully or someone with issues (maybe overlooked for promotion and a woman got the post?)

i would send the letter in and also send it to several newspapers and include as much detail of this drivers insulting and bullying ways, he needs to be put off the road before someone dies as with behviour like this it is only a matter of time.

Firstly, people desembarking from a bus is considered a danger especially those with special needs or the elderly as the step from the bus is less when parked at the footpath rather than on the road.
Secondly the incedent happened outside the hours mentioned 23.30hrs and 07.00hrs.
Mother was parked illegially, the bus driver didn't want to inconvience any other road users, as OPs mother had.
You are going to use bullying tactits to get this man removed form his position by writing a letter to a national newspaper without the use of a fair hearing from his supervisors.

Grow up the pair of ye.

VERYinterested

I would love to see the driver put on the 14A route on a wet winter's evening. On Churchtown Road Lower at the Luas Windy Arbour stop there is a pull in bay for the bus, the triple parking in it on such a day has to be seen to be believed. I reckon he would go postal!

foggy_lad

Mother was parked illegially

the op has confirmed she was not illegally parked but was dropping him off and was outside the bus stop lines.

corktina

to quote a famous reply "well she would wouldn't she!"

AlekSmart

I would love to see the driver put on the 14A route on a wet winter's evening. On Churchtown Road Lower at the Luas Windy Arbour stop there is a pull in bay for the bus, the triple parking in it on such a day has to be seen to be believed

Ah Now Now,VERYinterested...don`t you know....Dublin 14 is DIFFERENT

But back to the OP`s case,at this juncture the credibility level of the original post has been diluted so much as to make it somewhat questionable in terms of a specific complaint.

Again I think the most logical course of action for the OP,if they felt so aggrieved,was to contact Bus Eireann and engage with their complaints procedure.

Given that the original complaint now has broadened somewhat and apparently now has input from others who were not present I would suspect that any employer would have a difficult time formulating a disciplinary case from it.

Given that only the OP and the Driver concerned know the true nature of the incident I would be reluctant to go ranting and raving about sacking and/or otherwise attacking this Driver.

The reality is that unless and until the OP submits the complaint and recieves an acknowledgement from Bus Eireann then it`s a case of "Move along now please,there`s nothing here to see" : )

foggy_lad

I am on the 11.15 bus from Carlow to Dublin this mornin and after pulling in to stop the drive failed to lower the front of the bus even though he had stopped over 3ft from the kerb.

Then he went on to talk with the passengers in the front seats about how the kavanaghs bus in front of his was deliberately half an hour(10minutes) behind time just to steal his passengers and how they have to do that because that company is "finished"!

I just thought how unprofessional nasty cheap dirty and low down can some people get? Of the ten minutes they were late his bus being 6minutes early accounted for most of that! I wonder how many people this prize driver left behind because he was early on the road?

AlekSmart

I'd be looking for him to lose his job for his awful behaviour and manner and lose his licence for at least 3months for using the horn in that manner there is no need for that kind of abuse from someone driving a bus!

the bus driver sounds like a nasty bully and needs to be put off the road before he kills someone or causes a serious incident through his bullying behaviour.

your mother was in the right and this pig of a driver was completly wrong to react how he did and also wrong in discussing the matter with you! if he was any kind of a man he would have had the manners to ask your mother to move her car in a civilised manner but this would have implied that he was not skilled enough to drive his bus in and out of the stop in the allocated space.

Of the ten minutes they were late his bus being 6minutes early accounted for most of that! I wonder how many people this prize driver left behind because he was early on the road?

I must confess to being intrigued by Foggy_Lad`s accumulation of negativity from his use of Bus Eireann services.

I would salute his ability to make such clear phsychological assessments of the BE drivers on his route,something which I`m sure BE management will fully engage with following receipt of his complaints.

However the following from the 18th May does have my curiousity aroused......perhaps Foggy_Lad might elaborate on the highlighted opinion....

........dangerous behaviour and more evidence of a bully or someone with issues maybe overlooked for promotion and a woman got the post?

foggy_lad

Maybe it is a training issue? After spending millions on busses that can be lowered to the kerb to assist passengers I doubt the company can be happy this is not being used?

Also it gives a poor image of bus eireann to hear its drivers slagging off other bus companies.

There is also an issue on this bus with the air con not working properly or just being ineffective but that may be out of the drivers control?

AlekSmart

Also it gives a poor image of bus eireann to hear its drivers slagging off other bus companies.

Oddly enough it happens the other way around too......:)

After spending millions on busses that can be lowered to the kerb to assist passengers I doubt the company can be happy this is not being used?

It`s pretty much a standard feature of modern coach & bus chassis at this atage so there would be little extra cost involved.

There can also be elements which may influence a drivers decision to drop it or not.

I tend to take a pragmatic view and lower it when I see a person with obvious requirement for it OR when requested to do so by a passenger

( I have in the past been berated by a passenger for doing so,and told very forcefully by her that she was quite able to get off the Bus without any assistance thank you very much !!!!)

Some vehicles would have interlock devices fitted which would restrict the vehicles ability to move with the suspension lowered so a driver might not deploy it instantly upon arrival.

foggy_lad

AlekSmart wrote: »

Oddly enough it happens the other way around too......:)

It`s pretty much a standard feature of modern coach & bus chassis at this atage so there would be little extra cost involved.

There can also be elements which may influence a drivers decision to drop it or not.

I tend to take a pragmatic view and lower it when I see a person with obvious requirement for it OR when requested to do so by a passenger

( I have in the past been berated by a passenger for doing so,and told very forcefully by her that she was quite able to get off the Bus without any assistance thank you very much !!!!)

Some vehicles would have interlock devices fitted which would restrict the vehicles ability to move with the suspension lowered so a driver might not deploy it instantly upon arrival.

is it company policy to lower the front of the bus for passengers? And I have never seen or heard anything but courteous comments from jj kavanagh employees towards bus eireann

foggy_lad

Just want to add that the few drivers that I have seen on mobiles or not following procedures etc really are the exceptions as there are hundreds more excellent drivers who go above and beyond to be helpful and courteous, but there are always a few bad apples but in the case of bus eireann they seem uninterested in dealing with them.

sdanseo

God this forum occasionally spawns some pedants...just because the mother was a millimetre outside the bus lane line does not necessarily mean she was not unduly in the way. By the same token the bus driver could have been perfectly legal and above board in what he did to the letter of the ROTR, doesn't mean he wasn't a total prat.

I have no reason to disbelieve the OP and don't for a minute side with the bus driver - if he was that rude that the OP wants to write a letter then he must have done something wrong - but this remains a one sided story that can't be backed up by the other party. I can understand letting off steam but I don't know why you'd ask the forum to comment on your letter and it's appropriateness when none of us were there.

Seeing as you asked, however, OP sometimes you gotta suck it up and coming across all confrontational with the driver regardless of his actions was probably a bit silly.

AlekSmart

Is it company policy to lower the front of the bus for passengers? And I have never seen or heard anything but courteous comments from jj kavanagh employees towards bus eireann

I would suspect that any company policy in this regard will carry a caveat of "Where Requested","Where Possible" or some other recognition that reality occasionally manages to defeat desireability.

I had`nt realized Foggy_lad was doing a specific JJ Kavanagh vs Bus Eireann comparison but once again I would suggest that most of JJ`s drivers are apt to behave professionally in the main as is the case with Bus Eireann`s.

With a workforce of c.3,000,most of whom are drivers I`m also taking it that Foggy_Lad is having difficulties with a relatively small percentage of Bus Eireann`s staff.........unless there`s another agenda we may be unaware of ??

But there are always a few bad apples but in the case of bus eireann they seem uninterested in dealing with them.

The existance of "bad apples" is pretty much an incontravertible fact in human nature,existing even outside the realms of Bus Driving :eek:.

However,with a workforce of c.3,000 the supposition that the company is uninterested or otherwise reluctant to "deal with" disciplinary issues is simply untrue.

As with any large organization,Bus Eireann has a disciplinary procedure which applies to all staff.

Once that procedure is initiated the strictures available for transgressions are comprehensive and range from Advice,Reprimands,Suspensions and as a last resort,Dismissal.

However I`m uncertain what level of proof Foggy_Lad desires in order to demonstrate that a particular Staff Member may have recieved a disciplinary rebuke.

Unless such people are required to don sackcloth and ashes whilst beating their breasts in anguish then I cannot see Foggy_Lad getting much satisfaction on this front.

All in all however,to take the broader view of the Original Post,, Sdonn may have it down a bit patter than me....

God this forum occasionally spawns some pedants...

I have no reason to disbelieve the OP and don't for a minute side with the bus driver - if he was that rude that the OP wants to write a letter then he must have done something wrong - but this remains a one sided story that can't be backed up by the other party. I can understand letting off steam but I don't know why you'd ask the forum to comment on your letter and it's appropriateness when none of us were there.

foggy_lad

i only say bus eireann seem uninterested in dealing with issues because in the few times i have thought it necessary to email them i have never recieved a reply, not once ever! not even an acknowledgement! failing for one email could be seen as them having email issues but failing 4 times is unacceptable!

mikemac

Seriously foggy_lad, if you have a complaint then email is the lazy option.

Write a letter and post it straight to the top.
Emails are easily ignored, letters are not.
Send to the top brass, they will forward to the correct department.
I understand the Bus Eireann website has a contact form and asks for email but still you need to write a letter.

I've lodged complaints now and again, mostly with NTL/UPC and Xtravision and I never ever send an email. Writing a letter shows you are serious, it's the surest way to get satisfaction or at least an acknowledgment which you haven't even managed to get after four attempts.

Overcoming difficulties when things go wrong
We are committed to ensuring that the proper care of our customers is a predominant factor in the selection and training of our employees. We trust that staff dealing with you can assist in overcoming difficulties you may encounter in using our services at the time such difficulties may arise.
If however you have a complaint or difficulty that you wish to pursue you can write to the relevant Regional Manager, names and addresses are listed below. Please include as much detail as possible such as time of travel, origin and destination of your journey to assist us in dealing with you.
We are committed to fully and fairly investigating all complaints and welcome the opportunity they offer to resolve any difficulties you experience.
If you are not satisfied with the reply you receive from our Regional Manager you may request Manager, Marketing, Sales & External Communications to review your complaint by writing to him at:
Bus Éireann
Broadstone
Dublin 7
Ireland

AlekSmart

Feelingstressed proffers good solid advice....with the words of Justice Flood (?) ringing in one`s ears........"Follow the PAPER trail"

Or at least set one up !!!

foggy_lad

AlekSmart wrote: »

Oddly enough it happens the other way around too......:)

It`s pretty much a standard feature of modern coach & bus chassis at this atage so there would be little extra cost involved.

There can also be elements which may influence a drivers decision to drop it or not.

I tend to take a pragmatic view and lower it when I see a person with obvious requirement for it OR when requested to do so by a passenger

( I have in the past been berated by a passenger for doing so,and told very forcefully by her that she was quite able to get off the Bus without any assistance thank you very much !!!!)

Some vehicles would have interlock devices fitted which would restrict the vehicles ability to move with the suspension lowered so a driver might not deploy it instantly upon arrival.

care to post in this thread as you seem to work for a bus company?

AlekSmart

care to post in this thread as you seem to work for a bus company?

Here now Foggy_Lad,less of the "seem to"......Of course I work as a BusDriver...I post quite clearly from that perspective,but since it`s not Bus Eireann or JJ Kav,then I`m remarkably conflict-free in this thread,yes ?

Equally since I`m not a Senior Manager or Person of Influence in the greater scheme of things then all I post are my opinions,which if they conflict with anybody elses is quite alright,the heavens won`t fall.

Other than promoting the general principle of supporting Public Transport use I don`t really see a "Conflict of Interest"..... a "declaration" of interest might be more accurate and that`s self-evident I hope ?