Evo's rules on character/ultra counter picking in SSFIV.

Sairus

• If one of the players asks for a blind pick, then Player 1 must tell the judge his character and ultra selection. Player 2 then must pick his characters, and after that Player 1 must pick the characters he told the judge. Everything is blind pick.

• As far as the winner switching ultras, since ultras can counter the other player's ultras, the winner [of a match] will NOT be allowed to switch up any ultra. There should be no advantages given to the player that already is up a game in the set.

• A perfect example of ultras countering ultras, is Seth vs. Chun-Li, if Seth picks Ultra 1, Chun-Li can punish Seth's Ultra 1 when blocked from full screen away, even though in many player's eyes, [her] Ultra 2 is way better.

I'm curious as to what everyone thinks of this ruling.
I thought the whole point of selectable ultras was to balance a character against an awkward match-up. For example I would generally pick Rose's U1 against Adon and Juri to stop their dive kicks, but would use her U2 against Guile and other characters who will rarely be tricked into jumping into U1. However, this simultaneous blind picking of character and ultra seems to throw that whole concept out the window.
I would have thought a better blind system would be each player blind picks their characters, then they get an opperunity to see each other's characters and blind pick their ultras.

As far as I know, in an arcade setup the winning player would not be able to switch their Ultra anyway, so I dont see much of a problem with the second ruling.

As this sort of ruling is marginally important to running the tournaments in Ireland I figured it warranted its own thread as opposed to being folded into the SSFIV Discussion.

Azza

I agree Sarius, I'm all for blind selecting characters but not ultra's.

You should be able to select your ultra after each match. I think that is the way it was in 3S, after each game you could pick your super art.

Zapp Brannigan

Yeah I don't think Ultra selection should be blind.

K.O.Kiki

You should see how quickly Mr.Wizard closed his thread, the ragequitter.

I'm completely against these Evo rules, as I'm certain Ultras like Abel's U2 are designed for combating bad matchups, like Zangief.

And that's what I (kinda) do in 33 as well, Q's SA1 is a really good punishing tool for shoto sweeps & fireballs, but I might pick SA2 or 3 if I'm against other characters.

Monkeyto

wow Wizard really can't communicate at all...

Doctor DooM

Monkeyto wrote: »

wow Wizard really can't communicate at all...

not even a "why I am closing this thread" message.


Pfft. Amateur

The Hound

Ye this is BS, If I'm going to play Akuma I'm going to use U2 unless i'm against a blanka player then I'll use U1. Evo rules suck

K.O.Kiki

If P2 loses the 1st Set and then wins the 2nd Set, P1 is now at a massive advantage if he counter-picks because P2 can't change his Ultra to suit; e.g. could counter-pick Sagat/Ryu against a character who relies on Ultra to stop fireballs.

Sisko

Yeah I'm the same with Ibuki, I find her ultras character specific. I'd pretty much need U1 against Dudley. & as far as I can see when you play online it shows you who the other guy has picked before you choose your ultra (providing he's picked his character) so the game seems to encourage allowing you to choose your ultra while knowing what character the other guy picked.

The Hound wrote: »

Ye this is BS, If I'm going to play Akuma I'm going to use U2 unless i'm against a blanka player then I'll use U1. Evo rules suck

So your finding akumas U2 useful then? Interesting.

Ramza

Retarded. Should be allowed to change ultra upon seeing who your opponent chooses. Totally removes the point of having two ultras

Sagat06

Ramza wrote: »

Retarded. Should be allowed to change ultra upon seeing who your character chooses. Totally removes the point of having two ultras

this

Dreddybajs

Yep completely agree with Ramza/everyone else in this thread. This is stupid, Mr Wizard just proves himself an idiot again

Doctor DooM

I know I was joking about it earlier, but his posts on that thread do come accross as antagonistic and superior.

Sisko

Like most of the Admins on SRK, sure thats how the guy comes across in RL as well and hell... look at the guys fkin sig! hahaahahahaha

Sairus

So is this rule going to be enforced at the EVO qualifiers? Not many people go for blind picks here from what I gather, but on the off chance someone does?
If this rule is going to be in place for EVO it's probably better that we get used to it. =/

Dreddybajs

I don't see why we should have it in place at the evo qualifier

Sairus

Dreddybajs wrote: »

I don't see why we should have it in place at the evo qualifier

I just mean that if EVO is going to have this bull**** rule and this tournament is the qualifier for EVO, they should both be run on the same rule sets.

Dreddybajs

Why? As far as I can tell we aren't being forced to do that for any reason and it's a stupid rule

Sairus

It's a stupid rule, but if we're going to be forced to use it at the actual event, a qualifier to allow you to participate in that event should be the same.

Kirby

Yes I agree. It's stupid beyond belief, but then alot of rules are. We should sync up the qualifier with the main event. Same rules makes sense.

blag

I agree with Dreddy,the fact evo are implementing a nonsense rule doesn't mean we have to.

UberPrinny_Baal

It's obviously not a popular rule, but from what I understand this is a continuing theme in SF tourneys in general (winner is locked into their selection), and I think was in place in 3S although I know little about this game, and a lot of people say most characters only had one viable super arts (which negated the need to ever switch anyway), this seems to have been the rule at the time from what I'm reading online.

Even if it wasn't, not to state the obvious, but it does put the winner at a disadvantage. Guess what though? He's winning. He already has an advantage.

Letting him counter-pick his ultra gives him a much more weighted advantage than the fact he's, you know, winning.

If this is an official ruling, we should use it even if we don't agree with it.

Otherwise any EVO potentials we produce will be ill-prepared of using an unfavourable Ultra in an important match.

Doyler01

EVO



I am disappoint

Dreddybajs

UberPrinny_Baal wrote: »

It's obviously not a popular rule, but from what I understand this is a continuing theme in SF tourneys in general (winner is locked into their selection), and I think was in place in 3S although I know little about this game, and a lot of people say most characters only had one viable super arts (which negated the need to ever switch anyway), this seems to have been the rule at the time from what I'm reading online.

Even if it wasn't, not to state the obvious, but it does put the winner at a disadvantage. Guess what though? He's winning. He already has an advantage.

Letting him counter-pick his ultra gives him a much more weighted advantage than the fact he's, you know, winning.

If this is an official ruling, we should use it even if we don't agree with it.

Otherwise any EVO potentials we produce will be ill-prepared of using an unfavourable Ultra in an important match.

It was in place at Evo for 3s and was thought retarded there too, afaik other major tourneys didn't lock you into a super (imo even more devastating effect in 3s than sf4).

Uhh how is the opponent being able to counterpick character in match 2 not a bigger advantage?

What do you mean "an official ruling"? Our tournament is not evo

No they won't, they have brains that they can use


You're all insane except blag

Ramza

What did you expect from the Americans anyway?

LOL HDR

Dreddybajs wrote: »

You're all insane except blag and Ramza

FYP :pac:

UberPrinny_Baal

Found a reply on SRK that was a bit more well-worded to you guys' way of thinking, I hadn't thought about it long term

If you lose the first game, then even if you win the second game by countering their ultra selection, you could be at sudden death in the final game with the wrong ultra for the matchup you are in. It becomes unnecessarily difficult to win the match if you lose the first game.

This is especially troublesome because the current EVO rule requires you to select an ultra without knowing what character your opponent has chosen for the first game, if a blind selection is requested by either player. This means the first round is random luck whether or not you will have picked the correct ultra for the matchup you end up in.

It's the combination of these two rules that causes the problem more than anything.

That does make it seem really crappy, beyond the scope of just the "locked into ultra" for round 2 thing, but right from the first match before anyone even plays.

What do you guys think would be fairer first match (ignoring second match rules)?

Blind to both?
Blind char; told; then blind ultra? (like ranked)

Sairus

Dreddybajs wrote: »

What do you mean "an official ruling"? Our tournament is not evo

But in a way it is.
This tournament we are having is purely to gain access to Evo. Any rules in place for Evo should then be applied to any events attatched to it.

Aside from this tournament I dont think we should use the rule - as I said, I think it's a terrible rule - but because this event is just an extension of Evo, our rules should be synchronised.

Owwmykneecap

Sairus wrote: »

But in a way it is.
This tournament we are having is purely to gain access to Evo. Any rules in place for Evo should then be applied to any events attatched to it.

Aside from this tournament I dont think we should use the rule - as I said, I think it's a terrible rule - but because this event is just an extension of Evo, our rules should be synchronised.

Only if this was somehow sanctioned and supported by Evo completly offcially.

Dreddybajs

Owwmykneecap wrote: »

Only if this was somehow sanctioned and supported by Evo completly offcially.

EXACTLY

Sisko

Evo's rules are for like a 300+ man tourney theres no real need to make ours 100% the same as evo's for a qualifier. As long as its not something totally different , like off the wall, (1 round 30 second tourney, everyone banned cept blanka or some ****) it should be fine.

Sagat06

Sisko wrote: »

(1 round 30 second tourney, everyone banned cept blanka or some ****).

that sounds good to me