Brand Bashing

Randy Shafter

Im just curious about boardsies views on guitar brand bashing. Do you think there's any need to disregard brands by saying stuff like "Gibson is much better than any Fender guitar" or "I wouldn't touch a Squier with a 10ft barge pole!" I personally find it silly and at times immature to brand bash especially if the brand isn't a well known or popular one. The way i see it is if you like the sound, feel, quality of the guitar, you're not really going to care what name is on the headstock. So what's your take on brand bashing?

Orando Broom

Randy Shafter wrote: »

Im just curious about boardsies views on guitar brand bashing. Do you think there's any need to disregard brands by saying stuff like "Gibson is much better than any Fender guitar" or "I wouldn't touch a Squier with a 10ft barge pole!" I personally find it silly and at times immature to brand bash especially if the brand isn't a well known or popular one. The way i see it is if you like the sound, feel, quality of the guitar, you're not really going to care what name is on the headstock. So what's your take on brand bashing?

Well i'd imagine you suck at guitar if you play a gibson through a Marshall solid state amp. That is what I have learned. I think your guitar has to be either A. Vintage or B. from some obscure luthier whose operation is in Kent or somewhere.

It's snobbery, people like to be snobs, it's immature, most the the lads on here could not tell the difference between a solid state amp and a loud voice if they had to decide solely by listening.

However this is the internet it is better these opinions exist here on message boards where they are ultimately inconsequential than in a forum that actually matters.

However there are a lot of reasonable posters who don't make ridiculous proclamations and are a valuable resource for top notch information.

Ash.J.Williams

I have heard that if you are spending big bucks on a gibson, you should try a hell of a lot of them as the quality can vary significantly from guitar to guitar.

rcaz

With respect to electric guitars;

I don't like Gibson because of this. I also don't like most of the music that I think of when I think 'Les Paul', 'Explorer', 'SG' or 'Flying V' - apart from Thom Yorke's and Brian Bell's SGs and Gruff Rhys' Flying V, I'm not so sure... and I hate the way they seem to be putting all their efforts into pointless 'innovations' instead of quality control and responsibility.

I know it's silly to have preconceptions about the names on the headstocks, but those relatively sound reasons to not want to play their guitars.

At the moment I only have Fender and Squier guitars. I started on one of those Squier strat starter packs, like a lot of people, and I got a Jazzmaster and a Telecaster because those are two guitars that a lot of my favourite bands play. I'm not a blind 'Fender guy', but I haven't bought many guitars in my... 'career'.

I don't think I have any hang ups regarding hollowbody or acoustic guitars or any other kinds of gear. Other than I don't like MicroKorgs.

Paolo_M

Orando Broom wrote: »

Well i'd imagine you suck at guitar if you play a gibson through a Marshall solid state amp. That is what I have learned. I think your guitar has to be either A. Vintage or B. from some obscure luthier whose operation is in Kent or somewhere.

It's snobbery, people like to be snobs, it's immature, most the the lads on here could not tell the difference between a solid state amp and a loud voice if they had to decide solely by listening.

However this is the internet it is better these opinions exist here on message boards where they are ultimately inconsequential than in a forum that actually matters.

However there are a lot of reasonable posters who don't make ridiculous proclamations and are a valuable resource for top notch information.

I've personally never seen anyone make claims like that on here or anywhere else that I can think of.
Do you have any links, or are you also making ridiculous proclamations?

Grolschevik

Paolo_M wrote: »

I've personally never seen anyone make claims like that on here or anywhere else that I can think of.
Do you have any links, or are you also making ridiculous proclamations?

I think Orando was being humbly self-deprecating, as he says in another thread that he plays an LP Studio through an MG!

Anyway, slightly off-topic -- but maybe not, given the frequency of "avoid Gibson" and "Microcube FTW" type advice -- but certain forums seem to develop a particular culture that may be at variance with, er, other people's experience.

For example, most people who frequent this forum know that any mention of wanting to buy a Gibson LP will be immediately followed by a "Bacchus is better" reply. Because that's the conventional wisdom of this board (not saying it's not true, though; but I haven't played a Bacchus, so I don't know if they're better for me).

Reminds me a bit of when I accidentally wandered into the fitness forum and came across a thread asking about the nutritional content of cereal bars. The poster of this simple question felt they had to preface the question with the information that they had bought such a bar because they "had inadvertently left home without their usual bags of nuts and berries [+blushing face]", which a quick read of the forum convinced me is their equivalent of "Microcube FTW" conventional wisdom.

Hence, here, we have quasi-apologetic posts about wanting to buy a first amp that are prefaced with the statement "I know MGs are shi'ite, but I like the look of Marshalls and it's all I can afford"...

Rigsby

Paolo_M wrote: »

I've personally never seen anyone make claims like that on here

Me neither !!

What I have seen here is people giving their honost opinions (be they good or bad) on certain brands that someone might be inquiring about. If someone does say "dont go near "X" brand", it is generally because they have had a bad experience with it, possibly more than once, or it is not good value for money.

Hardly "brand bashing" IMO.

Vomit

If I play a Squier people will think I'm poor, and a failure.

Alanstrainor

I don't know whether i'd be universally loyal to any brand over another. I'm probably one of those people who will post that bacchus ****e around the place, but i'll usually talk about a specific model that i've played or that i own. So i can safely say that those particular models are fantastic, and imo they can't be beaten for the cash!
But Bacchus makes some crap too! I wouldn't buy a cheap Bacchus just because of the name on the head stock. I'd do my research and if it was between a 1000 euro Bacchus Duke, or and similarly priced Gibson LP i'd go Bacchus, because i know they are far superior.
It's not about being "loyal" one way or another, it's about one guitar being superior. Fair enough a lot of this stuff is subjective, but a lot isn't too. Like the quality of the woods, electronics, necks, finishes etc etc.

I own a Squire Telecaster(My second electric), Fender 60's Strat Mex(My third), Bacchus 07 G-Player Strat(fifth), Squire classic Vibe Strat(sixth), Edwards LP 92(seventh).

I think that list of guitars shows just how diverse my purchases have been, and i even bought a squire after the Bacchus because i liked it so much! I like strats, but not necessarily Fender.

Randy Shafter

I agree with most of what you said there Alan. Especially about the brand loyalty. What annoys me at times though is that some people would be looking for new guitar advice (not on this forum of anything, just in general) and they are sometimes met with replies such as 'dude, you should get such and such a guitar' because of the name on the headstock and as you already mentioned, the percieved quality. I think that beginners can be put off guitar when they're told that whatever guitar they have is crap just because it's not Fender, Gibson, PRS etc.

reniwren

All brands can crap out on you....FACT!!!

That enough brand bashing?

The_g-man

Bashing a brand for the sake of the name I'll never agree with, but it's when a company that puts out the sheer volume of the big names lets their quality control slip, that's the gripe.

There is no sign of attempts to improve by Gibson as an example:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055710264&highlight=gibson+quality

I was happy to buy my Gibson from chrisguitars, with an honest description before taking the plunge. I don't think I would risk buying a new Gibson blind. Some of what they make is still great, but the odds of finding the good ones are only getting worse.

When I link to something other than the big names, it's as much to let someone know there are choices to be had, nothing wrong with getting to try several options to suit personal needs.

You can end up with a gem instead of just being handed the all too readily available brands like I did starting off, and having to return several duds before you get a chance to start enjoying playing.

Malice

I don't like Gibsons because they just feel wrong to me. The neck is too fat and the bridge feels odd. I am quite partial to Ibanez guitars and basses but I could easily imagine a Gibson fan posting the opposite to me and giving out about the thin Ibanez neck .

It's all about personal taste in the end.

Banjo

It has it's place - it's good for people who don't know any better to question the quality of the big brands and get exposure to some of the other names out there. When I were a lad and the closest thing we had to the internet was a mate's older brother who could play Master Of Puppets, there was no question that your first guitar had to be an Epi-by-Gibson or Squire-by-Fender and a Les Paul Custom was the ultimate meaning of life. At least nowadays you tend to get stripped of any foolish notions you might have that a €2,500 guitar is automatically fantastic pretty damned quickly.

Does get on your tits after a while though, eh?

Orando Broom

Banjo wrote: »

It has it's place - it's good for people who don't know any better to question the quality of the big brands and get exposure to some of the other names out there. When I were a lad and the closest thing we had to the internet was a mate's older brother who could play Master Of Puppets, there was no question that your first guitar had to be an Epi-by-Gibson or Squire-by-Fender and a Les Paul Custom was the ultimate meaning of life. At least nowadays you tend to get stripped of any foolish notions you might have that a €2,500 guitar is automatically fantastic pretty damned quickly.

Does get on your tits after a while though, eh?

I do think that the denizens of this board are perhaps a lot more clued in about the tools of their trade that 90% of those who play music. If they weren't they would really post as much here would they? I suppose the fact is a lot of these lads have owned played Strats, Les Pauls', you name it and in more obscure brands they have found what they are looking for.

The big brands appeal to the mass market I don't think this can be considered a good overview of the mass market.

Welease

Orando Broom wrote: »

I do think that the denizens of this board are perhaps a lot more clued in about the tools of their trade that 90% of those who play music. If they weren't they would really post as much here would they? I suppose the fact is a lot of these lads have owned played Strats, Les Pauls', you name it and in more obscure brands they have found what they are looking for.

The big brands appeal to the mass market I don't think this can be considered a good overview of the mass market.

There is a flip side to this arguement.. Looks at the top players around the world and which brands they are using.. The vast majority of those use big brands, sometimes folks shying away from Fenders/Gibsons is just anti-fashion for the sake of it... There is no doubt most of those guys know their stuff

At the end of the day, most decent guitarists will find one or more guitars they like, and the brand will make very little difference compared to feel, sound etc. Don't discount a big name brand until (like small name brands) you have sat down and played it.

Orando Broom

Welease wrote: »

There is a flip side to this arguement.. Looks at the top players around the world and which brands they are using.. The vast majority of those use big brands, sometimes folks shying away from Fenders/Gibsons is just anti-fashion for the sake of it... There is no doubt most of those guys know their stuff

At the end of the day, most decent guitarists will find one or more guitars they like, and the brand will make very little difference compared to feel, sound etc. Don't discount a big name brand until (like small name brands) you have sat down and played it.

True, but David Beckham does not buy his Adidas Predator's out of Lifestyle. His boot is handmade specific for him. It bears no resemblance to anything you or I might own no matter how much we paid for them.

It is unlikely that Zakk Wylde's, or Kirk Hamnett's guitar's are shop spec either. They may endorse the brand but more than likely they are not playing a guitar that even closely resembles the model you'd buy off the shelf. YOu have to contextualise this board that the lads here are not sitting round whose Les Paul is better for a reason. They are interested in their instruments, they are intrested in the minute of how their instruments function and are prepared to do anything to make them perfect for their needs. Naturally they will gravitate towards more obscure brands and designs.

Welease

Orando Broom wrote: »

True, but David Beckham does not buy his Adidas Predator's out of Lifestyle. His boot is handmade specific for him. It bears no resemblance to anything you or I might own no matter how much we paid for them.

It is unlikely that Zakk Wylde's, or Kirk Hamnett's guitar's are shop spec either. They may endorse the brand but more than likely they are not playing a guitar that even closely resembles the model you'd buy off the shelf. YOu have to contextualise this board that the lads here are not sitting round whose Les Paul is better for a reason. They are interested in their instruments, they are intrested in the minute of how their instruments function and are prepared to do anything to make them perfect for their needs. Naturally they will gravitate towards more obscure brands and designs.

The vast vast majority of professional musicians do not have special hand made custom versions of their instruments

Orando Broom

Welease wrote: »

The vast vast majority of professional musicians do not have special hand made custom versions of their instruments

Absolutely, the vast majority don't derive pleasure in taking asunder perfectly viable guitars either!

darrenw5094

PRS make fantastic guitars.:)

Welease

Orando Broom wrote: »

Absolutely, the vast majority don't derive pleasure in taking asunder perfectly viable guitars either!

But thats nothing to do with the thread

My point was.. most people who discount certain brands because of the brand probably know as little as those who only use a certain brand because of the name.. The big guys are big for a reason, and millions of professional guitarists use their instruments stock (or with minor mods)..

As with all brands there will be good instruments and bad instruments.. quality does vary.. It varies too much with Gibson (I have had both good and bad), but for people to label them all as bad is just prejudice (same goes with smaller brands).

A decent guitarist will play an instrument and should decide on the quality of that guitar based on sounds, feel, setup etc. rather than the label on the headstock.

Johnny Storm

Microcube FTW!

darrenw5094

Johnny Storm wrote: »

Microcube FTW!

It's a little bit of an animal.

novarock

Everyone has there own tastes - Im partial to guitars designed by Leo Fender - I just like how they look, feel, play and sound...

There are some facts out there about gibsons that would make me not want to buy one, and advise other people not to, because they are so expensive. Such as the fact that to get the weight down they were drilling huge chambers out of the bodies of their guitars.. these are facts - not rumours.

Other than that everyting else is down to preference.. A metal head will not like my bass tone - I wont like his. But i know roughly what equipment someone into that genre should buy because ive had an interest in instruments for a long time..

Quattroste

I'd have mentioned Bacchus and Tokai as Gibson LP alternatives and this is why.

I had always wanted a Gibson LP. I had bought a few other guitars all for under €1000 simply because I couldn't bring myself to pay double for a Gibson. In the end the GAS got to me and I sold to buy a Gibson LP. At first when I got it home I though it was the business and it did sound great, no doubt. However after a while I just started to dislike it. The feel wasn't right. I didn't like the fretboard or the frets(too high) and the finish was only OK. I sold it.

My replacement guitar was a Tokai LS200. I got a great deal by getting it for €1200. Its a single slab of mahogany with a thick flamed maple cap. Mahogany neck with an ebony fretboard. It feels better and plays better and I have only seen €3500+ Gibsons with similar spec. For me this represents better value than Gibson. I am not knocking Gibson.

I have a similar story with a Fender Strat that was replaced with a Bacchus Strat. The Bacchus Strat cost as much as the Fender Strat but there was no comparison on the spec, and more importantly the feel and playability.

I don't bash Gibson or Fender. I do however feel there is better value for money out there and that is generally the basis of my advice.

I also would say that I am not a very accomplished guitarist but I know what I like and I have experience in buying and selling guitars to finds the one I want.

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

Randy Shafter wrote: »

"Gibson is much better than any Fender guitar" or "I wouldn't touch a Squier with a 10ft barge pole!"

Cant stand people who say gibson is better than fender, like saying an apple is better than an orange! As for squire, there are some very nice squires out there, the black custom tele with P90s is very nice, for the price.

Some brands do deserve bashing though, like the Marshall MG. No matter what type of music you play, there is a better amp available for that price!

darrenw5094

Crazy statement to say that Gibson are better than any Fender. :pac:

Probably the most distinctive guitar tone in the guitar business has to be the Fender Strat. They were good enough for Jimi.........

rcaz

darrenw5094 wrote: »

Probably the most distinctive guitar tone in the guitar business has to be the Fender Strat. They were good enough for Jimi.........

I thought the appeal of the strat was its versatility? When I think 'distinctive', I think Tele bridge pickup.

darrenw5094

El Pr0n wrote: »

I thought the appeal of the strat was its versatility? When I think 'distinctive', I think Tele bridge pickup.

Not me.......distinctive is the Strat for me.

Vomit

Strats comes in many configurations, so they are versatile. H-S-S would be the most versatile I think, and that's before you even talk about different kinds of pickups.

But yeah if I pass some guy busking with a Strat I check the headstock... if it's a Squier then I don't bother sticking around to listen to him because he's a nOOOOOb

Rigsby

In general, I dont see anything wrong with brand bashing. People are entitled to their opinions if they are constructive and informing. It is a good thing in a way. It encourages people to do some research where they might come across, and end up liking, a brand they might otherwise have avoided.

boycey

Vomit wrote: »

But yeah if I pass some guy busking with a Strat I check the headstock... if it's a Squier then I don't bother sticking around to listen to him because he's a nOOOOOb

I do hope that bit was a joke!
I could easily make the finest Fender Custom shop creation sound like muck, I'm talented like that. On the flip side I've heard some fine music being played on Squiers - our own Alan Strainor can sure make 'em sound sweet!! Jerry Hendricks would be another fine Squier player who springs to mind (RTE session player and general Irish music scene legend - his battered old Squier and AC30 sure sound good to my ears!) .

slavetothegrind

Very much a case of try before you buy.
A mate has an acoustic he bought new for 110 pounds.
We have had it in a studio with alsorts of the most expensive brands available and it stood up next to them!

For me brand schmand.

I got me a burny les paul i wouldn't swop for the latest most expensive gibson lp

i also got a new gibson explorer. Agree the finish is slightly lacking but there is feck all wrong with the tone! Sure listen....do you hear that sustain?.......:D

Taxpayer

Vomit wrote: »

If I play a Squier people will think I'm poor, and a failure.

and it's obvious Vomit (or is that Mr Vomit?), that this is clearly not the case.......

Dord

I don't care... I'll bash any brand (with a pick)!

darrenw5094

Dord wrote: »

I don't care... I'll bash any brand (with a pick)!

Not a new PRS CU22 with all the trim. They are art.......plays savage too.

Dord

darrenw5094 wrote: »

Not a new PRS CU22 with all the trim. They are art.......plays savage too.

Too right I would. I wouldn't buy one though.

Seriously... I'm the guy who said in the Marshall thread recently that if he had the cash he'd buy the 2nd Marshall ever made and get a master volume added. I was serious.

Sandvich

Vomit wrote: »

Strats comes in many configurations, so they are versatile. H-S-S would be the most versatile I think, and that's before you even talk about different kinds of pickups.

But yeah if I pass some guy busking with a Strat I check the headstock... if it's a Squier then I don't bother sticking around to listen to him because he's a nOOOOOb

Hurrr squier bad. The Squier classic vibes are as good as the MIMs, and general Squiers alternate between good and a bit naff depending on era so you can't make any sweeping judgements.

My guitars are cheap as ****, but I like them. They don't play as well as a $1000 instrument but I realistically can't afford that so I don't care. They definitely play better than guitars several times their price - just as some squiers do.

I might be a bit inclined to dismiss someone playing through an MG or Spider III due to the n00b factor, but I know better.

novarock

A bad amp is a bad amp - doesnt matter about the brand.. Nothing worse than having to sit through a gig listening to a guitarist with truly awful tone... painful stuff altogether.

Sandvich

Bad tone is often more about production/set up than the amp. In reality the vast majority of amps people gig with don't sound so incredibly different as to really wander into unlistenable territory.

If an amp has the bass cranked and is miced from an awkward angle, it'll sound muddy, for example. Most amps will have at least one acceptable gig worthy setting.

novarock

Sandvich wrote: »

Bad tone is often more about production/set up than the amp. In reality the vast majority of amps people gig with don't sound so incredibly different as to really wander into unlistenable territory.

If an amp has the bass cranked and is miced from an awkward angle, it'll sound muddy, for example. Most amps will have at least one acceptable gig worthy setting.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree with that one. Ive played gigs with people who have used our bands gear which is pretty top notch and its sounds like crap because of bad guitars..

Sandvich

Most of your tone generally comes from the amp though. What guitars were they using? The playing can be worse due to less comfortable guitars. If they were playing a lot of cleans or lower gain stuff it could sound pretty bad, but mid to high gain, most of the sound comes from the amp. You'll still hear the "character" of the pickups like a Tele bridge pickup sound is almost impossible to dial out, but especially with humbuckers, at higher gain any kind of fancy detail tends to be lost.

Dead strings can be pretty awful though.

Grolschevik

novarock wrote: »

I think we'll have to agree to disagree with that one. Ive played gigs with people who have used our bands gear which is pretty top notch and its sounds like crap because of bad guitars..

Sandvich wrote: »

Most of your tone generally comes from the amp though. What guitars were they using? The playing can be worse due to less comfortable guitars. If they were playing a lot of cleans or lower gain stuff it could sound pretty bad, but mid to high gain, most of the sound comes from the amp. You'll still hear the "character" of the pickups like a Tele bridge pickup sound is almost impossible to dial out, but especially with humbuckers, at higher gain any kind of fancy detail tends to be lost.

Dead strings can be pretty awful though.

Any amp will sound bad if someone is playing through a badly set Metal Zone or [insert pedal here]...

Sandvich

A distortion pedal is a preamp that distorts your signal, so obviously yes.

Grolschevik

Sandvich wrote: »

A distortion pedal is a preamp that distorts your signal, so obviously yes.

Really? Something that changes your sound actually changes your sound? Who'd have thunk it? Those crazy kids!

Anyway...

I really meant that, no matter how good your guitar and amp are, badly thought-out pedal settings can ruin your tone...

darrenw5094

Grolschevik wrote: »

Really? Something that changes your sound actually changes your sound? Who'd have thunk it? Those crazy kids!

Anyway...

I really meant that, no matter how good your guitar and amp are, badly thought-out pedal settings can ruin your tone...

Tone comes from the link of finger tips, right along to the speaker at the end.

Tone is only as good as your weakest link.