Should there be an end period for the Dole?

rossie1977

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Is there a generous Dole in Greece or Iceland that would match ours? I doubt it.

There are plenty of countries in the EU with duck egg offered for those out of work.

ours is well below the eu average actually, these are 2006 figures http://www.irishleftreview.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/a1_1_aaa_b_unemploymentbenefitsingle.jpg

€385 a week on umemployment benefit in luxembourg in 2006, not bad

stupidusername

The dole absolutely should be cut off for people that are long term unemployed i.e. definitely 5 years or more. Maybe even 3.

I posted this somewhere else but I'll throw it in here too. The government could make a saving of an average of €245 million a year if they were to cut off those that are unemployed 3 years or more.

Where's the argument in that? People unemployed that length of time have to be just takin the piss. And I'm unemployed myself, before anyone starts at me about that.

starbelgrade

theboxer wrote: »

The crazy thing is, if your pal "breaks up" with the missus and moves out, he would be able to claim rent allowance and receive 200 euro every week. It is a deeply, deeply flawed system.

That's not actually true. He looked into this - if he did move out & told the welfare that they'd seperated due to "marraige / money problems" due to his unemployment, the social welfare would pay him, but they would take his missus to court to reclaim any maintenance payments made to him.

Basically, he is now her dependant in the eyes of the system. Not an easy thing to stomach for any man, especially one who is used to working hard & paying his way.

recylingbin

I'm sure someone has already said this, but there already is an end period - when you get a job.

Darlughda

stupidusername wrote: »

The dole absolutely should be cut off for people that are long term unemployed i.e. definitely 5 years or more. Maybe even 3.

I posted this somewhere else but I'll throw it in here too. The government could make a saving of an average of €245 million a year if they were to cut off those that are unemployed 3 years or more.

Where's the argument in that? People unemployed that length of time have to be just takin the piss. And I'm unemployed myself, before anyone starts at me about that.

Sigh. Maybe just your dole should be cut off after 3 yrs.
Good luck job hunting!

Run_to_da_hills

rossie1977 wrote: »

ours is well below the eu average actually, these are 2006 figures http://www.irishleftreview.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/a1_1_aaa_b_unemploymentbenefitsingle.jpg

€385 a week on umemployment benefit in luxembourg in 2006, not bad

That is not including other benefits which could be added such as the micky money and rent allowance.

stupidusername

Darlughda wrote: »

Sigh. Maybe just your dole should be cut off after 3 yrs.
Good luck job hunting!

I'd have absolutely no problem with that. I wouldn't want to be unemployed for three years in the first place. I'm desperate as it is. I don't really get the sarcasm though. Why is it acceptable to be unemployed since 2007??

RayM

stupidusername wrote: »

I posted this somewhere else but I'll throw it in here too. The government could make a saving of an average of €245 million a year if they were to cut off those that are unemployed 3 years or more.

That's quite the modest proposal...

It doesn't address how those people (and, in many cases, their dependants) would survive without any money. It goes without saying that simply "getting a job" isn't that straightforward right now. Furthermore, even if we didn't have a massive unemployment crisis, would you employ somebody who has been out of the workforce for over three years? That old saying, "It's easier to find a job when you already have one" isn't just some hollow, bullshit cliché.

Darlughda

stupidusername wrote: »

I'd have absolutely no problem with that. I wouldn't want to be unemployed for three years in the first place. I'm desperate as it is. I don't really get the sarcasm though. Why is it acceptable to be unemployed since 2007??

Acceptable?
Do you have any comprehension of what it is like to be unemployed since 2007?

DarkJager

stupidusername wrote: »

I'd have absolutely no problem with that. I wouldn't want to be unemployed for three years in the first place. I'm desperate as it is. I don't really get the sarcasm though. Why is it acceptable to be unemployed since 2007??

You are forgetting that a lot of people who are now unemployed are in the age of 50+. Ageism is still alive and well in most employers (I have seen proof of this myself), so the truth is many of these people may never work again. So lets say a person of 56~ loses his job and signs on the dole. He applies for numerous vacancies but just gets PFO letters back. In your theory, his dole is cut off after 3 years despite his lack of employment being caused by bad business ethics.This makes him 59 years old, 6 years away from his pension and without a single source of income. Do you see how flawed and badly thought out your idea is?

Executive Steve

Darlughda wrote: »

Acceptable?
Do you have any comprehension of what it is like to be unemployed since 2007?

The chap is probably 19 years old and posting it from his parent's house.

Ouijaboard

Typically Irish, this seething being directed at people on the dole lately is getting out of hand.

We'll end up rioting and burning the dole offices to the ground when we should be directing our anger at a different group altogether.....

...those fcking FF cnuts!

starbelgrade

cougar1 wrote: »

Typically Irish, this seething being directed at people on the dole lately is getting out of hand.

We'll end up rioting and burning the dole offices to the ground when we should be directing our anger at a different group altogether.....

...those fcking FF cnuts!

In fairness, I don't think it's wrong to question anything, whether it be the performance of our government, the payment of long term unemployment benefits, or the wages of the public / private sectors. In fact, it's healthy to discuss these things & the fact that our government are screw ups, doesn't mean that no other debates should be held.

Sure, you get some flippant, stupid & angry comments, but you get that no matter what you're talking about.

Boxoffrogs

starbelgrade wrote: »

I have another mate who went straight onto the dole when he left school & has been getting welfare benefits for almost 15 years now. He knows every trick in the book - he works part time, but only on the days & up to the number of hours such that they won't reduce his dole payments. His girlfriend is the same. They've also got a kid & she gets single mothers benefit as they say they aren't living together. They've also got a rather nice house from the council, basically rent free.

This is a guy who is not educated, wants to work as little as possible, couldn't be ars*d going to college & has paid feck all PRSI into a system that gives him a lot back (& keeps on giving).

There is something deeply & inheritantly flawed with our social welfare system. It breeds dependancy on handouts, promotes single motherhood and fails to support those who paid into the system, even in times when they need it the most.

One question, why are you so friendly with this character? They are clearly breaking the law and stealing from you, the taxpayer, so have you done your duty and reported them?

Ouijaboard

starbelgrade wrote: »

In fairness, I don't think it's wrong to question anything, whether it be the performance of our government, the payment of long term unemployment benefits, or the wages of the public / private sectors. In fact, it's healthy to discuss these things & the fact that our government are screw ups, doesn't mean that no other debates should be held.

Sure, you get some flippant, stupid & angry comments, but you get that no matter what you're talking about.

I agree totally, It was meant tongue in cheek. There is a bit much vitriol being directed at the dole queues recently tho. The media are partly to blame....recently there was much talk about a border town having more people signing on than there were living in the town. There was even a section on primetime about it.

What came out later was the truth that a large number of people signing on there were sent there to alleviate pressure on a couple of adjacent towns dole offices which were overflowing with newcomers....do ya think that got a primetime slot or a six one news explanation or even a decent paper spread, no it was a minor section on a few national news sheets that cleared that mistake up.

Also back in the good times?? Quite often a large number of people on seasonal , contract or part time work signed on at different periods....so I would say that that 100K who were signing on when the country was in full employment were mostly taken up with these people and not the dutch gold drinkin/rollie smoking trisha viewers we all like to blame for this countrys ills.

Alot of sensationalist crap doing the rounds about the dole.......imo FF are the big target and need to be ejected if we are going to get the country running again.

Bootsy.

Has nobody considered that if the dole was cut off after a certain period, it's very likely the crime rate would go through the roof?
People have to get money from somewhere to survive... muggings, burglaries, theft, drug dealing??? It's called 'Social Welfare' for a reason and as a society we're lucky to have it.

starbelgrade

diddledum wrote: »

One question, why are you so friendly with this character? They are clearly breaking the law and stealing from you, the taxpayer, so have you done your duty and reported them?

I have no truck with him & I would never grass up a friend, no matter what they did, bar something like murder or a sex crime. My gripe is with the system as it clearly allows itself to be open to corruption & abuse, whilst providing little or no protection or support to those who have contributed to it the most.

sponsoredwalk

mise_me_fein1 wrote: »

They're not contributing.

I've never minded paying for people who don't want to work, it's their choice. Not all people work because they have to, some people want to :eek:, others don't, all live with the consequences. I believe one of the finer aspects of human morality is the right to choice, is it not?

Who knows how many people the spire could have housed (4 million worth!), or not buying them voting machines that are still in storage (over 50 million!), or the infamous Bertie Bowl (estimated at between 450 to 550 million from online browsing - do your own!), or the 60 million government jet & the many, MANY costly trips about 5 links there . Would this ridiculous amount of expenditure imply that these would be the ares to focus on in the future?

No! Take the money away from the poorer people instead


One might call it slavery encouragement to get a job by taking away all of their money, inadvertently, implying they have no right to live if they are not a happy cog in the machine, it doesn't change the patriarchal & forceful nature of the act, impersonal I might add & luckily so for it's hard to actually do these things to someone in person.

Just because they do not contribute does not mean they do not deserve to live ffs..

I only wish there was a way to pay for those people who have to sleep outside & that more people cared instead of theorizing of more ways to put more people out with them ...

If we were to follow up on some of the comments in this thread for real people would die because of it, that's not a joke either :mad:

It's sick how some of you view other people as wage liabilities because the country is now in a mess, suddenly everybody becomes a walking euro sign & an expense.

Boxoffrogs

starbelgrade wrote: »

I have no truck with him & I would never grass up a friend, no matter what they did, bar something like murder or a sex crime. My gripe is with the system as it clearly allows itself to be open to corruption & abuse, whilst providing little or no protection or support to those who have contributed to it the most.

I get where you're coming from, I don't really think I could either in spite of the fact that it is blatant thieving.

I am myself, currently receiving support from the state. I also happen to be parenting alone, so I am lambasted on several fronts in spite of the fact that I've worked solidly in decently paid employment for ten of the twelve years of my son's life. He will be going to secondary school this September and I am desperate to go back to full time working then.

We really do need to ditch the mindset which says that everyone claiming benefit is having a rare ould time and sure it's such fun that they don't bother applying for the gazillion jobs that are available.

Gunsfortoys

DarkJager wrote: »

You are forgetting that a lot of people who are now unemployed are in the age of 50+. Ageism is still alive and well in most employers (I have seen proof of this myself), so the truth is many of these people may never work again. So lets say a person of 56~ loses his job and signs on the dole. He applies for numerous vacancies but just gets PFO letters back. In your theory, his dole is cut off after 3 years despite his lack of employment being caused by bad business ethics.This makes him 59 years old, 6 years away from his pension and without a single source of income. Do you see how flawed and badly thought out your idea is?

This is a great point, people would never think of this aspect in the state of affairs the country is in.

theboxer

sponsoredwalk wrote: »

I've never minded paying for people who don't want to work, it's their choice. Not all people work because they have to, some people want to :eek:, others don't, all live with the consequences. I believe one of the finer aspects of human morality is the right to choice, is it not?

Its their choice not to want to work alright. Unfortunately, the working man has to subsidise them. He has no choice in the matter.

There are hundreds of thousands of people unemployed through no fault of their own. No issue with them. But why should ordinary workers subsidise parasites?

Nobody wants to get up at 6am and do an eight hour shift, but functioning members of society realise that it is a necessary evil.

thebaldsoprano

starbelgrade wrote: »

I have another mate who went straight onto the dole when he left school & has been getting welfare benefits for almost 15 years now. He knows every trick in the book - he works part time, but only on the days & up to the number of hours such that they won't reduce his dole payments. His girlfriend is the same. They've also got a kid & she gets single mothers benefit as they say they aren't living together. They've also got a rather nice house from the council, basically rent free.

This is a guy who is not educated, wants to work as little as possible, couldn't be ars*d going to college & has paid feck all PRSI into a system that gives him a lot back (& keeps on giving).

Your mate is thankfully in the minority. In the boom years, around 2% of the workforce were long term unemployed (1 year or more). You can find the figures here and here if you're nerdishly inclined like meself

The system does need to change alright, but the last thing we need is those FF buffoons whipping up some media frenzy to take money away from a lot of people who badly need it and it would work at the drop of a hat. All the while hanging on to pay and entitlements themselves that'd dwarf Cowen's bulging spare tyre.

theboxer wrote: »

We should scratch the one payment across the board system. Why should the worker get the same payment as the leeches?

Ist Six Months - 75% of your previous salary.
After Six Months - 50%
After a Year - 25%
Second Year - Congratulations, your food stamps are in the post.

For those whom have paid less than 100 PRSI contributions, heres a nice and crisp fifty euro note. Dont spend it all at once. Gotta last you the week.:)

Spain has something like this AFAIK.

melekalikimaka

i think alot of people turn down jobs cos the dole pays more, i detest this, dunnes and other super markets are almost constantly hiring... i find it bull that people can't find jobs... people just cant find jobs to suit themselves.

Run_to_da_hills

The other thing I could possibly see being introduced (as is being proposed in the UK) is to usher in some kind of community service, Ie those signing on do a certain amount of work for the state to earn their keep.

I could see no harm in it provided it is not abused. People would feel better off contributing than sitting on their hole all day. Those that refuse to cooperate would have to get the boat.

inforfun

theboxer wrote: »

We should scratch the one payment across the board system. Why should the worker get the same payment as the leeches?

Ist Six Months - 75% of your previous salary.
After Six Months - 50%
After a Year - 25%
Second Year - Congratulations, your food stamps are in the post.

For those whom have paid less than 100 PRSI contributions, heres a nice and crisp fifty euro note. Dont spend it all at once. Gotta last you the week.:)

thebaldsoprano wrote: »

Spain has something like this AFAIK.

Holland has a system like that.
First 6 months = 90% of last earned salary.
After this it is 70% for 2,5 years
Both upto a certain maximum.

After this is back to something you would call the dole here. Which used to be +/- €600 a month for a single person. Might be a bit more nowadyas.
Then of course there is all kinds of exra benefits as childsupport, rent relief and so on.

It is not a miracle that in Holland after tax has been taken off your salary you are left with only half of your money.
People in Ireland might think it is heaven here for those who don't want to work. Well... try Holland.

The system here is really unfair on 1 point for sure and that is that someone who dropped out of school, arsing around since is getting as much as someone who recently lost his of her job after working for X amount of years.

Just look at the post of Starbelgrade to see how seriously f*cked up the system is and it should be overhauled fast.

Mister men

Only if you wear a tracksuit and complain about the lack of faciliteeeeees.

super_furry

melekalikimaka wrote: »

i think alot of people turn down jobs cos the dole pays more, i detest this, dunnes and other super markets are almost constantly hiring... i find it bull that people can't find jobs... people just cant find jobs to suit themselves.

Never been on the scratcher in my life but seriously, why would you go to work for less than you get paid on the dole? It doesn't make any sense.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

All that the poll shows is that "yes" people have jobs and haven't a fcuking clue what they are talking about...

Same whiners will be sprinting to the dole offices to claim as much as they can when they lose their jobs, which I hope they do, will give them perspective and maybe a little bit of cop on.

The only time you should look down on somebody is when you are helping them up.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

melekalikimaka wrote: »

i think alot of people turn down jobs cos the dole pays more, i detest this, dunnes and other super markets are almost constantly hiring... i find it bull that people can't find jobs... people just cant find jobs to suit themselves.

Well that's the biggest load of shíte I have heard to date... Stop talking crap. Fancy showing these 450K jobs that are out there?

Get of that fcuking high horse of yours...

syklops

A complete over haul of the social system is whats needed. Ill give you an example. My gf got laid off last march. She has a masters degree and computer systems, and has always wanted to be a sys admin, but during the boom years all she could ever get was support jobs. She got laid off and went on the dole. Now that she had extra time on her hands she decided to try and get some experience, so she went to a couple of IT companies and asked could she intern as a junior sys admin. She said she would do any and all work that she was aked to do, including going for coffee for people if asked. In return she would get hands on experience with servers and learn some of the skills a sys admin has, at the end of which she could get a reference and it would be some relevant experience. Alot of the companies she spoke to were very keen on the idea and would give time off for her for interviews and the like, but the social welfare said she couldnt do it because to get Job seekers you have to be available for work at all times. If she wanted to continue getting the dole, she had to bin her intern idea and basically stay at home.

So the system doesnt reward people trying to better themselves. Instead it closes doors for them.

Thats what really irked me about bill cullens comment on prime time when he said people should go out and get experiences etc. while on the dole. It really irked me, because the system does not let you do that.

No there shouldn't be a cut off of the dole, the system needs a complete overhaul, and it needs to work for people not against them. The majority of people on the dole at the moment paid for it in the past and will pay for it again. Benefits fraud is a seperate issue, and therefore should be dealt with differently. Someone on the dole for 10 years unskilled, never contributed to the dole, who says they cant get any work should be given work to do, and if they dont do it, then their dole should be cut.

Greyfox

Mise mé féin (Me Myself) Your username sums you up.

Go educate yourself. Better still apply for over 300 jobs over 5 years and not a chance of an interview, yet still keep going.

Find out what life is really like for the majority of people who are long term unemployed and absolutely ****ing hate it every day of their waking lives and would do anything to be in a job.

Do not lie. You do not know lots of people who are content they are ****ing accepting their situation and how dare you make such ignorant threads and make such assumptions about people who are struggling day to day?

But what about the people who aren't making that much of an effort to get another job?

Yes most people on the dole would do anything for a job and are fighting hard to get off it and us employed people understand this, it's a horrible situation to be in. BUT what loads of people defending the dole seem to convenienely ignor is the FACT that their are still plenty of people out their that are CONTENT with staying on the dole and can't be bothered looking for another job.I was at a house party last week and a guy their gets his dole and €90 rent allowance, he spends all day every day either on the net, reading books from the libruary or playing computer games and shops in Lidl all the time. Now most people out would be miserable with this but this guy is VERY HAPPY with been on the dole and has no intention of looking for a job and theirs loads of people like him out their.

Their are two groups of people on the dole, theirs the majority which are decent, honest people who don't have a job because through no fault of their own their are no jobs out their and their fighing an uphill battle to get a job, I don't slate these people because I could be one of these people in 2 or 3 years time. But theirs a minority of people who are lazy wasters getting free money and benifits that aren't trying to get off the dole, some of the money wasted on these people could be used to help give all Irish people a future again.

Greyfox

mise_me_fein1 wrote: »

Thanks...

self employed = create employment, pay tax, work hard and perhaps deal with stress.....NO DOLE

Long term unemployed = large possibilty not trained in anything, never contributed to society, free house, free health, many allowances, no intention on looking for work...... SUSTAINED BY THE VERY PEOPLE THAT WILL NOT RECEIVE DOLE IF THEY GO BELLY UP

+100

Of all the things wrong with the country this is the biggest. We desperately need people to create jobs so our children might have a future but instead of the govenment encouraging this their making sure to put off as many potential self employed people as possible...this pretty much sums up the intelligence of the people in power

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Greyfox wrote: »

But what about the people who aren't making that much of an effort to get another job?

Yes most people on the dole would do anything for a job and are fighting hard to get off it and us employed people understand this, it's a horrible situation to be in. BUT what loads of people defending the dole seem to convenienely ignor is the FACT that their are still plenty of people out their that are CONTENT with staying on the dole and can't be bothered looking for another job.I was at a house party last week and a guy their gets his dole and €90 rent allowance, he spends all day every day either on the net, reading books from the libruary or playing computer games and shops in Lidl all the time. Now most people out would be miserable with this but this guy is VERY HAPPY with been on the dole and has no intention of looking for a job and theirs loads of people like him out their.

Their are two groups of people on the dole, theirs the majority which are decent, honest people who don't have a job because through no fault of their own their are no jobs out their and their fighing an uphill battle to get a job, I don't slate these people because I could be one of these people in 2 or 3 years time. But theirs a minority of people who are lazy wasters getting free money and benifits that aren't trying to get off the dole, some of the money wasted on these people could be used to help give all Irish people a future again.

Sure lets change everything because of your one encounter with some random guy who's happy with what he has. Fcuking unbelieveable...

syklops

Antonio Warm Limousine wrote: »

Sure lets change everything because of your one encounter with some random guy who's happy with what he has. Fcuking unbelieveable...

So basically you support benefit fraud and think there is nothing wrong with it?

Greyfox

starbelgrade wrote: »

There is something deeply & inheritantly flawed with our social welfare system. It breeds dependancy on handouts, promotes single motherhood and fails to support those who paid into the system, even in times when they need it the most.

+100

furiousox

melekalikimaka wrote: »

i find it bull that people can't find jobs... people just cant find jobs to suit themselves.

Ya think??
I've applied for jobs that offer NO salary and received no reply or acknowledgement of my application.
Now tell me where do I go from there?

omahaid

Surely if you're on the dole with 30 years then you didn't try very hard to get a job?

Greyfox

Fago! wrote: »

Not a fucking chance. What if someone who genuinly can't get a job and has a family to support? So now because it's taking him a bit of time to find work, he has to suffer, and therefore, so do his family?

Fuck right off!!!

A bit of time?? 5 f**king years?? how the f**k is that a "bit of time"??? No wonder our country is gone to sh** when some people think this. OUR COUNTRY CANNOT AFFORD to pay someone to sit at home for 5 years scratching their ar**! It's simply not fair on all the poor sods with a morgage and kids that after spending at least 50 hours a week working and traveling to and from work they still cannot afford a decent social life, but sure nodody cares about hard working people earning well below the average wage.

ninebeanrows

Depends on the situation.

Some people just can't get jobs.

Problem with the dole is that it is just too high.

It should just cover basic costs for fuel, eating, transport etc.

Dole should be around 100/120 euro p/week

Also increases incentives for people to get minimum paying jobs.

What needs to clamped down is the young scummers sucking the country dry.

Getting there 200 quid a week, living in there parents house heading to the pub, bookies most days spending 50euro a week on spliff and complaining about their lifes. Need to be given a kick up the arse.

Also pains me to think that some good lad could struggle through a partly full-time job, get his 300 a week and see this lazy f'er doing nothing.

doncarlos

Darlughda wrote: »

Go educate yourself. Better still apply for over 300 jobs over 5 years and not a chance of an interview, yet still keep going.

If you've applied for 300 jobs and not got an interview there must be something seriously wrong with either your CV or the jobs that you are aiming for

bonerm

DarkJager wrote: »

In your theory, his dole is cut off after 3 years despite his lack of employment being caused by bad business ethics.This makes him 59 years old, 6 years away from his pension

On the plus-side thanks to our wonderful FF-lead government he is now actually 9 years away from retirement.

bonerm

Bootsy. wrote: »

Has nobody considered that if the dole was cut off after a certain period, it's very likely the crime rate would go through the roof?
People have to get money from somewhere to survive... muggings, burglaries, theft, drug dealing??? It's called 'Social Welfare' for a reason and as a society we're lucky to have it.

I agree with this. I don't consider it a hand-out. I consider it "protection" money to stop those undesirable elements of our society from going on a rampage of violence and crime.

Some clever economist worked out that it cost approx €204 a week to stop this country from tearing itself apart. I'll happily pay it for now.

gurramok

bonerm wrote: »

I agree with this. I don't consider it a hand-out. I consider it "protection" money to stop those undesirable elements of our society from going on a rampage of violence and crime.

Some clever economist worked out that it cost approx €204 a week to stop this country from tearing itself apart. I'll happily pay it for now.

204 is too much for the layabout type scammers portion of the dole recipients.

The dole in the UK i think is 73quid, their crime rate is not through the roof as a result. Reduce the dole here for the layabouts and keep it at the 204(or 196 as it is now!) level for those who actually worked and lost their jobs recently.

admiralofthefleet

i know a fella that has been on the dole since 1983, if he was cut off he would be on the streets because he wouldnt know how to live without it

Antar Bolaeisk

I don't necessarily see a major problem with the dole, sure there are people who abuse the system and more than likely don't deserve the dole in the first place (I know at least two of these lazy gits who wouldn't know work if it hit them square in the eye). However, I do believe money for nothing is insane, I think everyone on the dole should perhaps register the skills they have and be put to work for the country, the government is paying them after all and their only problem it would appear is finding work, not actually doing it.

There are a lot of streets to be cleaned, there are a lot of roads that need repairing and I'm sure plenty of other tasks (skilled and non-skilled) that would be of benefit to the country at large that these people could be used for.

Now, I'm not suggesting they work a forty hour week, merely that they make a contribution say two days, eight hours each day. Also, it would be important that such work not be taking away from those who are currently employed, merely complement their efforts.

BigEejit

There was a program on the telly here in the UK last year where they compared the working ethic of two unemployed people, they were interviewed on the street before they went into the job centre and again when they came out.

One was made unemployed recently, and the other was a long term unemployed, both looked to be late twenties. The first guy had never been to a job centre before and had a good deal of trepidation, the second guy was required to go there weekly. They were asked what kind of jobs they would like, the guy who lost his job recently said he just wanted a job, any job. The long term guy said he would love a forklift driver or warehousing or possibly management ... anything that was mostly sitting on your arse with fairly good pay basically.

The recently unemployed guy came out with several leads and interviews lined up, he went off with a spring in his step. The long term guy came out saying there was nothing there he liked the look of....

It should be noted that the long term guy then cracked open a can of dutch gold.

Also, my company here in London advertised 3 jobs and got just 6 applicants. There are millions unemployed here but just 6 CV's sent in, I honestly have no idea why so few.... maybe because they were not advertised on monster or jobsite, but they were with loads of small recruitment companies.

topper75

JimiTime wrote: »

There will be a class divide, and a bitterness that will fester. No good will come of it.

You really haven't thought about this at all have you?

Let's talk about bitterness.
Somebody is entitled to be bitter if they are out of work.
Somebody is entitled to be bitter if they, as workers, and others who don't put in effort are similarly rewarded.
Somebody is not entitled to be bitter at the prospect of free payments being withdrawn, because this money is only state generousity after all. There is no constitutional entitlement to it.

..Brian..

syklops wrote: »

A complete over haul of the social system is whats needed. Ill give you an example. My gf got laid off last march. She has a masters degree and computer systems, and has always wanted to be a sys admin, but during the boom years all she could ever get was support jobs. She got laid off and went on the dole. Now that she had extra time on her hands she decided to try and get some experience, so she went to a couple of IT companies and asked could she intern as a junior sys admin. She said she would do any and all work that she was aked to do, including going for coffee for people if asked. In return she would get hands on experience with servers and learn some of the skills a sys admin has, at the end of which she could get a reference and it would be some relevant experience. Alot of the companies she spoke to were very keen on the idea and would give time off for her for interviews and the like, but the social welfare said she couldnt do it because to get Job seekers you have to be available for work at all times. If she wanted to continue getting the dole, she had to bin her intern idea and basically stay at home.

So the system doesnt reward people trying to better themselves. Instead it closes doors for them.

And ....... if you were young an stupid like me 10 years ago and didnt bother with school much, if you find yourself in you late 20's and thinking about getting a degree, you MUST go on the dole for a year to qualify for back to education and be considered for a mature student place!

Yet you cannot get the dole unless you are actively engaged in looking for full time work .....

Antar Bolaeisk

..Brian.. wrote: »

And ....... if you were young an stupid like me 10 years ago and didnt bother with school much, if you find yourself in you late 20's and thinking about getting a degree, you MUST go on the dole for a year to qualify for back to education and be considered for a mature student place!

Yet you cannot get the dole unless you are actively engaged in looking for full time work .....

The grant and back to education system is a joke, the majority of people who get the grant use the money to go out all the time and buy themselves a new, shiney car.

Sorry, I'm a bit bitter over this as I work hard for the entire Summer and throughout the year for them to be handed over half my annual earnings for free when I can't get any free money at all and support myself through uni so as not to be a drain on my parents.

It would be nice to have just my registration fee paid as the initial month of Uni can be very expensive with deposits, new books and supplies.

DarkJager

Weathercheck wrote: »

Depends on the situation.

Some people just can't get jobs.

Problem with the dole is that it is just too high.

It should just cover basic costs for fuel, eating, transport etc.

Dole should be around 100/120 euro p/week

Also increases incentives for people to get minimum paying jobs.

What needs to clamped down is the young scummers sucking the country dry.

Getting there 200 quid a week, living in there parents house heading to the pub, bookies most days spending 50euro a week on spliff and complaining about their lifes. Need to be given a kick up the arse.

Also pains me to think that some good lad could struggle through a partly full-time job, get his 300 a week and see this lazy f'er doing nothing.

100/120 per week wouldn't last pissing time in this country. What about the bills, loans, finances etc that don't stop just because you're on the dole? People are depressed enough about being unemployed without being further punished with a piss poor welfare payment each week.