why?

phantom_lord

What's your point? They have no relevance to what we're talking about.

Torakx

I posted the link for the thread on fractional reserves.
I also posted a statement i made further on in thatthread in the same post with my conclusion based on everything posted and that still stands.
Im not going to repost all my research for you because there are a couple pages of threads.
Read the thread if you are interested in why and how the banking syastem works.You will see the banks do have too much power for expanding the money in the economy.Yet we bail these same banks out so they can do it again next time.The system itself is a variation of a pyramid system by its nature and i would imagine design at this stage.
The info is on the net if you want to research the FED and how it was established,who was involved and what they have been doing since then.
You need a wide scope to view everything together.this could be seen as paranoia but i only agree with that when its true

Carra23

phantom_lord wrote: »

The board is presidentially appointed and the gov receives the profits from it. It's essentially an arm of the government. I've seen some ct stuff that paints it as some nefarious organisation when it's clearly not the case.

I have to be honest and say all I know about the Fed I found on the internet so can't be sure if it's fact or fiction but a clip I saw obn youtube made my mind up. In the clip Ben Bernanke is being qusetion by the American equivilant of a Dail standing committee and the politician who I think was Ron Paul asked him about loans the Fed had made to some International banks , loans which were billions of dollars and Ron Paul if thats who it was wanted to know exactly which banks the Fed had lent the money to. Now if the Fed is only a branch of the Government as you say, is a standing committe on finance not entitled to know who the Government are lending billions of dollars to ? you should go watch the clip if I could post a link I would and I'm sure someone here might find it but basically Ben Bernanke when asked this question simply replied ' No I'm not giving you that information ' ! ! ! also I think in the same clip it gets mentioned that in the Federal Reserves entire history they have never had an audit , is that not also a little bit odd ?

phantom_lord

Torakx wrote: »

I posted the link for the thread on fractional reserves.
I also posted a statement i made further on in thatthread in the same post with my conclusion based on everything posted and that still stands.
Im not going to repost all my research for you because there are a couple pages of threads.
Read the thread if you are interested in why and how the banking syastem works.You will see the banks do have too much power for expanding the money in the economy.Yet we bail these same banks out so they can do it again next time.The system itself is a variation of a pyramid system by its nature and i would imagine design at this stage.
The info is on the net if you want to research the FED and how it was established,who was involved and what they have been doing since then.
You need a wide scope to view everything together.this could be seen as paranoia but i only agree with that when its true

Ok I'll go have a read of that stuff. Wont get back to you tonight about it, but maybe tomorrow.

I really think you have a wrong impression on the banking system but i'll have a look.

Any conspicuous stuff about the FED is clearly nonsense though, it's a gov controlled organisation run for the good of the us gov. There's nothing nefarious about it at all.

squod

phantom_lord wrote: »

Ok I'll go have a read of that stuff. Wont get back to you tonight about it, but maybe tomorrow.

I really think you have a wrong impression on the banking system but i'll have a look.

Any conspicuous stuff about the FED is clearly nonsense though, it's a gov controlled organisation run for the good of the us gov. There's nothing nefarious about it at all.

If you do get back, could you maybe briefly outline your views on the FED?

Truthrevolution

phantom_lord wrote: »

Any conspicuous stuff about the FED is clearly nonsense though, it's a gov controlled organisation run for the good of the us gov. There's nothing nefarious about it at all.

ffs will you please do a bit of research on the fed.It is owned by the Rothschild family, anybody who has ever investigated the fed (and there are many) have come to the same conclusion - Rothschilds being the main stakeholder.

Truthrevolution

Carra23 wrote: »

I have to be honest and say all I know about the Fed I found on the internet so can't be sure if it's fact or fiction but a clip I saw obn youtube made my mind up. In the clip Ben Bernanke is being qusetion by the American equivilant of a Dail standing committee and the politician who I think was Ron Paul asked him about loans the Fed had made to some International banks , loans which were billions of dollars and Ron Paul if thats who it was wanted to know exactly which banks the Fed had lent the money to. Now if the Fed is only a branch of the Government as you say, is a standing committe on finance not entitled to know who the Government are lending billions of dollars to ? you should go watch the clip if I could post a link I would and I'm sure someone here might find it but basically Ben Bernanke when asked this question simply replied ' No I'm not giving you that information ' ! ! ! also I think in the same clip it gets mentioned that in the Federal Reserves entire history they have never had an audit , is that not also a little bit odd ?

Is this the video you are talking about?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dX2qvbznGKM

phantom_lord

Truthrevolution wrote: »

ffs will you please do a bit of research on the fed.It is owned by the Rothschild family, anybody who has ever investigated the fed (and there are many) have come to the same conclusion - Rothschilds being the main stakeholder.

You really believe the Rothschild family own and control the Fed?

By research do you mean look at webpages like this or videos like this?

phantom_lord

Truthrevolution wrote: »

Is this the video you are talking about?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dX2qvbznGKM

That's far from ideal, they were only short term liquidity loans though.

Banks oppose any release of information because it might signal weakness and spur short-selling or a run by depositors, said Scott Talbott, senior vice president of government affairs for the Financial Services Roundtable, a Washington trade group.

And this seems reasonable for what was going on at the time.

I don't think it adds much to any of the fed conspiracies.

Truthrevolution

phantom_lord wrote: »

You really believe the Rothschild family own and control the Fed?

By research do you mean look at webpages like this or videos like this?

No im talking about the works of G. Edward Griffins creature from Jeckyl island, Bill Hicks money masters, HS Keenans federal reserve bank, Casimir F. Guiruts savings and loan unethical bailout, Mullins secrets of the federal reserve, Gary H. Kahs En route to global occupation, and many more.
Youtube is probably not the best place to go if you want to properly research the federal reserve.

phantom_lord

Can i ask you a simple question?

If they own the bank, then how they come they don't control it or derive the profits from it?

Truthrevolution

phantom_lord wrote: »

Can i ask you a simple question?

If they own the bank, then how they come they don't control it or derive the profits from it?

Im sure they do derive profits from the fed but because they dont do a full audit it i guess we will never know how much they are making.Look the federal reserve is a private bank owned by a Jewish family and run by their jewish minnions, its no big secret.

phantom_lord

No it's not. It's something that has no credence or respect in the real world and only conspiracy theorists who listen to wackos like G. Edward Griffins believe in.

phantom_lord

enno99 wrote: »

http://jcs.biologists.org/cgi/content/short/118/6/1103

Hope this meets your standards

What are you trying to show me here? That journals are not infallible? I think we can all accept that, but they're a far better source that what's power for the course for most cts.

TalkieWalkie

phantom_lord wrote: »

No it's not. It's something that has no credence or respect in the real world and only conspiracy theorists who listen to wackos like G. Edward Griffins believe in.

I have a sneaky feeling you are placed here to wind people up. You're attitude is just out of this world. I have never seen the likes of it, certainly not in a moderator. How about showing some respect ?

phantom_lord

phantom_lord wrote: »

what's wrong in my post?

TalkieWalkie wrote: »

LMFOA:rolleyes:

phantom_lord wrote: »

explain plz?

excuse me?

Truthrevolution

phantom_lord wrote: »

No it's not. It's something that has no credence or respect in the real world and only conspiracy theorists who listen to wackos like G. Edward Griffins believe in.

Any chance you could explain how you came to this conclusion?

TalkieWalkie

phantom_lord wrote: »

excuse me?

Consider yourself excused.

phantom_lord

Truthrevolution wrote: »

Any chance you could explain how you came to this conclusion?

The last page or so I've been ridiculed because I don't subscribe to this conspiracy theory, and the best you can do to convince me is say "sur it's a big Jewish banking conspiracy, everyone knows that"

All the while I can be pretty much 100% sure that if I ask anyone I know that works in or knows anything about finance they're agree with me that this is a load of nonsense. And the only people who do believe in it are followers of a guy that believes crushed apricot pits cure cancer.

TalkieWalkie

phantom_lord wrote: »

The last page or so I've been ridiculed because I don't subscribe to this conspiracy theory, and the best you can do to convince me is say "sur it's a big Jewish banking conspiracy, everyone knows that"

All the while I can be pretty much 100% sure that if I ask anyone I know that works in or knows anything about finance they're agree with me that this is a load of nonsense. And the only people who do believe in it are followers of a guy that believes crushed apricot pits cure cancer.

This thread, you're thread, is based on ridiculing CT theorists, don't start crying if it turns around and bites you in the ass

squod

Pretty sure the OP is trolling. I've defo had enough here.

TalkieWalkie

squod wrote: »

Pretty sure the OP is trolling. I've defo had enough here.

Don't let it get to ya, treat it like any other troll

phantom_lord

Huh? Cause I don't believe in or have any respect for something that's clearly not true? If anything I've been trolled in this thread by other posters. Particularly you and walkietalkie.

TalkieWalkie

phantom_lord wrote: »

Huh? Cause I don't believe in or have any respect for something that's clearly not true? If anything I've been trolled in this thread by other posters. Particularly you and walkietalkie.

Troll

Truthrevolution

phantom_lord wrote: »

The last page or so I've been ridiculed because I don't subscribe to this conspiracy theory, and the best you can do to convince me is say "sur it's a big Jewish banking conspiracy, everyone knows that"

All the while I can be pretty much 100% sure that if I ask anyone I know that works in or knows anything about finance they're agree with me that this is a load of nonsense. And the only people who do believe in it are followers of a guy that believes crushed apricot pits cure cancer.

No, people are getting frustrated with you because you came here demanding to know why people believe what they do and when given reason you refused to look at the evidence or engage in discussion.I could waste my time putting up evidence here but i know you will refuse to even consider it, anyway the onus is on you the OP to provide evidence of your claims which you have failed to do.
You seriously believe that the fed is not owned by the Rothschild dynasty who have made trillions out of thin air then thats your problem but its very narrow minded to say that the only people who think this are followers of G Edward Griffin.
btw dont rely too heavily on wikipedia for your information.

phantom_lord

Truthrevolution wrote: »

No, people are getting frustrated with you because you came here demanding to know why people believe what they do and when given reason you refused to look at the evidence or engage in discussion.

Most people didn't bother even engaging in discussion with me. I haven't been given any evidence or basically any reasoning why what you're claiming is true. I've looked at the video and judgement summary that was posted and neither backed up your claim to any degree.

Truthrevolution wrote: »

I could waste my time putting up evidence here

Of course you could, and I'm sure it'd easily win me over, but sure, why bother when you can just say this and say sure it's a Jewish banking conspiricy that everyone knows is true.

Truthrevolution wrote: »

i know you will refuse to even consider it

If it's from the incredible sources that generally permeate most of this forum I probably wouldn't no. But go on, surprise me.

Truthrevolution wrote: »

anyway the onus is on you the OP to provide evidence of your claims which you have failed to do.

What claims are those exactly? You're the one making some outlandish irrational claim only believed in by a small subset of people, the onus of proof is on you.

Truthrevolution wrote: »

You seriously believe that the fed is not owned by the Rothschild dynasty who have made trillions out of thin air

No, and no rational person I know does either, or basically just about anyone other than a small subset of paranoid people.

Zombienosh

phantom_lord wrote: »

Huh? Cause I don't believe in or have any respect for something that's clearly not true? If anything I've been trolled in this thread by other posters. Particularly you and walkietalkie.

SO I can go troll in the religion forums?

TalkieWalkie

phantom_lord wrote: »

Most people didn't bother even engaging in discussion with me. I haven't been given any evidence or basically any reasoning why what you're claiming is true. I've looked at the video and judgement summary that was posted and neither backed up your claim to any degree.

Why would people engage in conversation with you? you have basically stated that you don't respect anyone who has a different opinion than you. Which is why you created this thread.

phantom_lord wrote: »

Of course you could, and I'm sure it'd easily win me over, but sure, why bother when you can just say this and say sure it's a Jewish banking conspiricy that everyone knows is true.

You are wrong. It is owned the the Rothchilds. Fact, research it.

phantom_lord wrote: »

If it's from the incredible sources that generally permeate most of this forum I probably wouldn't no. But go on, surprise me.

Trolling again. If you don't like what is being said in the forum, i guess you can figure out what to do about it. Stay and argue about or ignore it..

phantom_lord wrote: »

What claims are those exactly? You're the one making some outlandish irrational claim only believed in by a small subset of people, the onus of proof is on you.

Just because it is a new concept to YOU, does not make it "outlandish", this is a conspiracy forum, anything goes, people don't have to have proof to post here, it is based on THEORY !!! again, if you don't like it, do something about it. !!!

phantom_lord wrote: »

No, and no rational person I know does either, or basically just about anyone other than a small subset of paranoid people.

They are only rational through you're eyes. :rolleyes:

Torakx

It appears the Op has come in here with a pre-concieved idea that he is right because he represents the majority and everyone else is wrong because we use different sources than mainstream propoganda.He feels the onus is on everyone here to convince him of what some of us have researched and he has no time to do.
Unfortunatly propoganda goes on both sides.You must sift through all the crap on RTE,Alex Jones and anywhere else to find the coincedences and notice what is happening on a global scale or just a wider view of a situation.
How the hell do you base all your reality as truth when you only hear the mainstram half of the story and automatically agree thats true....because a guy or woman on tv says so? How do you know they arent lying? this mentality should cause me to be confused as to why you automaticlly believe such things..but i have researched and i totally understand where you are coming from OP...i was there too about 2-3 years ago and at first thought it an insane situation.I came out the other side and honestly most normal people imo are insane or suffering a neurosis due to the current system doing its magic.And yes that system runs the ct side aswell i would imagine.

I dont believe anyone fully.I can agree things sound plausible or possible but you need to keep an open mind and not forget your critical even logical thoughts when listening to rte type broadcasts (who misleads with purpose) and Alex Jones types(who misleads with purpose).

Also i think the reason we have CT's in the first place is because of people doing sneaky sh1t behind our backs and not getting caught except by the few who dont have proof.
We all know the USA wanted to go into Iraq and Afghanistan dont we?
We know big bankers make alot of money...infact so much so that they are among the richest people on this planet.
Also the monetary system is quite clearly a pyramid scheme of some sorts.
We are all competing to climb this ladder and on the way up we must push down everyone else.Eventually somebody has to lose because otherwise where does the debt go for printing the money?
Good look receiving a cetain amount of money from the ECB and having to pay back more than you recieved.People need to go back to school and learn basic maths lol

phantom_lord

TalkieWalkie wrote: »

You are wrong. It is owned the the Rothchilds. Fact, research it.

Well that's me convinced. So you say you've researched this. What exactly does that mean?

phantom_lord

As far as i can see you guys are all upset and think i'm trolling basically because I don't insta believe all the stuff your into?

phantom_lord

Torakx wrote: »

Also i think the reason we have CT's in the first place is because of people

being paranoid and lacking understanding about things which leads to delusions like this:

Torakx wrote: »

Also the monetary system is quite clearly a pyramid scheme of some sorts.
We are all competing to climb this ladder and on the way up we must push down everyone else.Eventually somebody has to lose because otherwise where does the debt go for printing the money?
Good look receiving a cetain amount of money from the ECB and having to pay back more than you recieved.People need to go back to school and learn basic maths lol

TalkieWalkie

phantom_lord wrote: »

As far as i can see you guys are all upset and think i'm trolling basically because I don't insta believe all the stuff your into?

phantom_lord wrote: »

being paranoid and lacking understanding about things which leads to delusions like this:

Are you going to contribute to YOUR thread ?:rolleyes:

phantom_lord

are you going to make sense at any stage?

Sparticle

It's pointless Phantom.

MS paint FTW.

Zombienosh

phantom_lord wrote: »

are you going to make sense at any stage?

well you coming into a conspiracy theory forum and saying, "whats it all about, its mad i dont believe it, surely u lads dont believe it?"

is like me going into the christianity forum and saying "Whats this about jesus and all, i think its all rubbish, ya dont all seriously believe in virgin marys and holy god and heaven hell and all that $hite do ya?"



Obvious troll is obvious

enno99

phantom_lord wrote: »

are you going to make sense at any stage?

maybe if you tell us your version of the FED like Squod asked earlier

Torakx

You could address my conclusion post in the economy forums since i have not been shown otherwise there.
You may call me delusional and thats your right to be bigoted,but i have shown with the help of others from the economy forums that the banks do cause inflation of the economy through loans and credit transactions.
You can bandy about with rates of interest regarding bidding between banks to see who is allowed to abuse this fractional reserve system,but the facts remain or facts according to the ECB website if thats anything to go by.
The ECB lowering its lending policy to 2% is not a competitive way to keep down inflation when the banks loaning that will expand it many times over or at least have that power.That kind of power could create housing booms lots of loans and credit cards and then backfire with recessions to take back the interest(yes banks add interest to loans to cover the ECB 2% and their own profit) for that expanded monetary system.
This is why we have so high inflation, because the economy would stand still if we didnt inflate it to cover loans and credit.But it also never answers the question of the 2% interest which needs to be paid back to the ECB along with the money loaned which i might add would be expanded many times..This in itself causes inflation to rise in some ways and also is a form of pyramid scheme.If anything i have said isnt true please show me via the same sources i used which is the ECB website and a few basic ideas on systems like fractional reserves from wiki why i am wrong as i always appreciate being informed as long as itsdetailed to cover siad explanation.Im willing to change my mind on this matter but calling me delusional and paranoid doesnt convince me about ECB fractional reserve practises.

squod

phantom_lord wrote: »

As far as i can see you guys are all upset and think i'm trolling basically because I don't insta believe all the stuff your into?

You're the one with the stories about the FED like! Give us your views, from my point of view it seems as if all you want to do here is argue. The most sensible thing to do (in my view) is just tell the good people of boards all about this FED story you heard.

Ken_Is_Here

Hay PHANTOM_LORD i'd like to get your opinion on this in regards to the way conspiracy theorys can be presented and rubbished in different medias.

Here's an interview from FOXNEWS, who some would say are a reputable and trustworthy news agency promoting a book: Manchurian President http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b19xZr6h9cM


And here is a blog website 'Media Matters For America' rubbishing the same book. This site descibes itself as:

Media Matters for America is a Web-based, not-for-profit, 501(c)(3) progressive research and information center dedicated to comprehensively monitoring, analyzing, and correcting conservative misinformation in the U.S. media.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/201005050034

It struck me as odd how the mainstream media outlet are touting the conspiracy theory while its an independant research centre who claim to correct misinformation (usually the cry of 'truthers') are the ones towing the Establishment line.



There's a video here where fox are slamming conspiracy theorys on 9/11
http://hotair.com/archives/2007/05/16/video-michelle-takes-on-ron-paul-and-the-truthers-on-the-big-story/

Truthrevolution

phantom_lord wrote: »

Most people didn't bother even engaging in discussion with me. I haven't been given any evidence or basically any reasoning why what you're claiming is true.

You have been asked by both Torack and squod to engage in discusion/debate and now im challenging you to put your money where your mouth is and back up your claims.Simply saying things like "thats clearly not true" or "the source is a nutcase" will not cut it with most people here who rely on evidence, what other reason have we got to believe in your version of events?

TalkieWalkie

phantom_lord wrote: »

The last page or so I've been ridiculed

It's you're thread, enjoy it.

Lab_Mouse

Truthrevolution wrote: »

now im challenging you to put your money where your mouth is and back up your claims.

Christ your starting to sound like a skeptic Truthrevolution!!!

humanji

phantom_lord wrote:

Most people didn't bother even engaging in discussion with me. I haven't been given any evidence or basically any reasoning why what you're claiming is true.

Now you know what CTer's feel like.

Truthrevolution wrote:

You have been asked by both Torack and squod to engage in discusion/debate and now im challenging you to put your money where your mouth is and back up your claims.Simply saying things like "thats clearly not true" or "the source is a nutcase" will not cut it with most people here who rely on evidence, what other reason have we got to believe in your version of events?

Now you know what sceptics feel like.

Sadly I really doubt anyone is going to learn from this irony.

Brown Bomber

phantom_lord wrote: »

I occasionally look at this forum in wonderment, and i just wonder why you guys believe in this stuff and expend so much time on it?

If you step back for a second and drop the jim corr type paranoia, you can't really believe based on any sort of logic or balance of probabilities that america is about to cause an earthquake in LA with some new technology, or that it caused the one in Haiti, or that planes are dropping stuff on us with chemtrails, or some secret organisation is trying to take over the world.

Do you just feel the need to believe you're in on this stuff and privy to things that "ordinary" people don't know?

Why is it that you pass up the normal explanations for things and most logical answers but swallow up anything that originates from ct sources?

You don't really believe that jay-z is a tool used by the illuminati to take over the world do you?

I just find the whole thing a bit bizarre and really don't understand it at all, and would just love some explanations!

I'd really like to see you go beyond pseudo-skepticism, if you can that is.

Your basic premise is that you are rational and everyone here is irrational. You've compartmentalised posters here into an irrational "paranoid" group and you've placed yourself into the rational mainstream group.

All you have done is demand unobtainable evidence and resorted to mockery. Hardly a credible pursuit I'm sure you would agree.

For you to gain any credibility and demonstrate that your mainstream views are based on actual scepticism (seperating falshoods from truth) and conclusions you have realised YOURSELF, not realised by your social circle.

IF and I think it is a big IF that you aren't a victim of groupthink (which I personally think so based on your posts) then you should be able to do one of two things.

Consider it a test:

1. Defend a non mainstream belief you hold (you must have some based on your high opinion of yourself) .

2. Share what beliefs you are skeptical of that other skeptics are not.

This shouldn't be a problem if you are as smart and rational as you believe yourself to be and you think for yourself.

Yitzhak Rabin

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Consider it a test:

1. Defend a non mainstream belief you hold.

2. Share what beliefs you are skeptical of that other skeptics are not.

This shouldn't be a problem if you are as smart and rational as you believe yourself to be and you think for yourself.

I think this could be interesting. Might rescue this thread from further pathetic squabbling. I'm going to take up that challenge. Just give me a while to get my **** together.

phantom_lord

enno99 wrote: »

maybe if you tell us your version of the FED like Squod asked earlier

What that it's a gov controlled organisation as opposed to the jewish banking conspiracy you guys think it is?

If this is so obvious and well known how come it's only something conspiracy theorists believe in? I'm sure an organisation creating billions out of nothing for the profit of some individuals would cause a bit of an outcry no? how come you guys haven't managed to show me any evidence of it what so ever?

TalkieWalkie

yekahs wrote: »

I think this could be interesting. Might rescue this thread from further pathetic squabbling. I'm going to take up that challenge. Just give me a while to get my **** together.

yay, can't wait

phantom_lord

Torakx wrote: »

You may call me delusional and thats your right to be bigoted,but i have shown with the help of others from the economy forums that the banks do cause inflation of the economy through loans and credit transactions.

I'm calling you paranoid because you seem to think this system is something nefarious.

Inflation is the growth in the money supply, it's a good thing, it spurs economic growth it's only when it gets larger than expected or forecast and out strips the growth in aggregate supply and causes large increases in the price of goods that it becomes a problem.

Torakx wrote: »

You can bandy about with rates of interest regarding bidding between banks to see who is allowed to abuse this fractional reserve system,but the facts remain or facts according to the ECB website if thats anything to go by.

They're not abusing the system. The ecb has control over the money supply not the banks anyway.

Torakx wrote: »

The ECB lowering its lending policy to 2% is not a competitive way to keep down inflation when the banks loaning that will expand it many times over or at least have that power.That kind of power could create housing booms lots of loans and credit cards and then backfire with recessions to take back the interest(yes banks add interest to loans to cover the ECB 2% and their own profit) for that expanded monetary system.

The banks can only create as much as ecb policy allows them. You're over estimating the individual banks power in this situation. If banks could simply create money out of thin area as easily as you seem to think for their own gain do you really think they would be in such a perilous state? Surely BOI could just magic themselves up a few billion and they'd be grand.

Torakx wrote: »

This is why we have so high inflation

No we don't. Other than in 2008 inflation has been below the 2% mark for the last ten years.

Torakx wrote: »

because the economy would stand still if we didnt inflate it to cover loans and credit.

Loans and credit inflate the money supply, these loans are used productively to grow the economy.

Torakx wrote: »

But it also never answers the question of the 2% interest which needs to be paid back to the ECB along with the money loaned which i might add would be expanded many times.This in itself causes inflation to rise in some ways and also is a form of pyramid scheme.

Look at this simply. The money you're paying back is worth less than the money you borrowed. Even though you're paying 2% interest, if the money supply has grown by that much, the actual real worth of the money you're paying in terms of the money you borrowed is the same.


You said something earlier on about it being a pyramid scheme and that the only way to go up is if someone else goes down. Clearly that's not true, just look at the tremendious growth in wealth in the world, it's not a zero sum game.

Brown Bomber

phantom_lord wrote: »

What that it's a gov controlled organisation

Define "controlled" please.