Villa gone to Barca

gimmick

HHH wrote: »

. Possibly adding a top class defensive midfielder too. Signing Cesc is not the answer for that problem either...

Barca have a top class DM. Yaya Toure, but it seems he is on the way out.

event

Headshot wrote: »

barca wanted ibra badly so they lumped eto'o into the deal, if they reduce the price tag of eto'o they could of used the money for villa

eto'o is a better player than ibra, quite simple to see that and getting rid of him is one of biggest mistakes around

the price tag was not the issue, it was his wages

if you read my post, realistically there were two clubs who could have signed him. he was not that easy to sell at all

and getting rid of him was not a mistake. no one doubts his ability, but its his attitude and disruptiveness that Pep wanted gone from the team

gimmick

Headshot wrote: »

so he has been ****e for the majority of the season so that makes him a flop no ?

At this stage, I reckon you are just looking for a reaction.

If you think Ibra has been a flop, thats your opinion. Sure, he could have been better, but as I have said already, could have been a damn sight worse. I would not say flop, but I also would not say a raging success.

Anyway, Villa has agreed to sign for Barca I hear.

Headshot

aaronh007 wrote: »

I really would like to know where you're getting your information from cos Barça's defence only conceded 24 league goals this season, and only lost one league game and with four defeats in all competitions

This myth of a rubbish defence is well...rubbish

actually its quite easy to see

barca have so much position that their defence isnt really tested

censuspro

Few questions maybe someone could answer definitively:

• What was the final fee/deal that was agreed for Ibra?
• Why is Ibra perceived to have had a bad season, my perception was that he was doing well?
• Can someone remind me what was the orignal problem with Etoo and Guardiola was?
• Where exactly would Villa play in the team?
• Will Fabregas get his game for Barca in light of the fact that Villa has now been signed?
• Who will lose their place if both Villa and Fabregas are sigend?
• Finally, where is Barca getting all the cash?

TheDoc

There is no doubt the stats are compelling, but I tend to try look past number crunching on a number of topics.

Theres no stat for
" How many times said defence got sliced open"
" How many saves did goalkeeper make"

For as long as I can remember wathcing barcelona they looked vunrebal at the back.


I'm not a week in week out la liga watcher, but I would hazard a guess that the lower half to bottom tier of the league, dont pose a tremendous amount of offensive threat for say 70 minutes of a game.

However in Europe, I think Barcelonas defensive frailities were exposed on a number of occasions.

I know its an age old saying how their defence is weak, but theres no smoke without fire.

When you look and analyse the individual defensive line you cant help but feel the negetives are more then the positives.

Compared to the likes of United and Chelsea in my opinion, Barca would have the weaker defence.

Anyways just my opinions lads dont take it to heart, I cant admit to being a week in week out la liga viewer but i try catch as much of it as i can.

Always get the feeling Barcelona and Real Madrid , when going into the market, and when they look at their player list, the defenders column must be missing everytime.

Its mental to think of the money thats being spent by both clubs in two seasons, and not one high profile defender has been signed.

Might be an indication of just how scarce good defenders are perhaps.

Glico Man

Headshot wrote: »

actually its quite easy to see

barca have so much position that their defence isnt really tested

But when it is tested,like most teams, they tend to defend very well, as shown by their goals conceded and games lost stats over the past two seasons under Pep

This season alone, Barça won 31 games, drew 6 and lost 1

They kept 20 clean sheets in 38 games

Le King

Oh Shit

Were all doomed!

Headshot

event wrote: »

the price tag was not the issue, it was his wages

if you read my post, realistically there were two clubs who could have signed him. he was not that easy to sell at all

and getting rid of him was not a mistake. no one doubts his ability, but its his attitude and disruptiveness that Pep wanted gone from the team

if they reduce the price tag, teams would be prepared to pay that wage, plus your getting the info from the tabloids so it's far from gospel

gimmick wrote: »

At this stage, I reckon you are just looking for a reaction.

If you think Ibra has been a flop, thats your opinion. Sure, he could have been better, but as I have said already, could have been a damn sight worse. I would not say flop, but I also would not say a raging success.

Anyway, Villa has agreed to sign for Barca I hear.

it was anti barca and now a reaction, sigh.

slingerz

gimmick wrote: »

I cannot for the life of me understand why people still say Barca are dodgy at the back. Sure, they may leave in the odd soft goal, but show me a defense who does not make a comedy error every one in a while. As i mentioned in another thread, 94 goals conceded in 2 seasons in all competitions is not going to make a good argument to say they are poor.

Regarding Bojan, have to disagree there. I think he is an excellent striker as it is. Certainly has a lot to learn, but I would have have him in my team than anyone elses.

In fairness they are only challenged by 2/3 teams in the league.

When it comes to the champions league fraility appears against the better sides.

Frisbee

Barca are very good at defense. If the other team don't have the ball they can't score. Barca are probably the best at keeping possession.

Not giving your opponents a chance to score is brilliant defensive work. I'd certainly rather it than having some clogger centre back being reduced to making last ditch tackles all the time.

Ush1

Frisbee wrote: »

Barca are very good at defense. If the other team don't have the ball they can't score. Barca are probably the best at keeping possession.

Not giving your opponents a chance to score is brilliant defensive work. I'd certainly rather it than having some clogger centre back being reduced to making last ditch tackles all the time.

At least someone gets it.

Good defending is about more than throwing your head and sliding into to every tackle you see.

Keeping possession IS a form of defence. Wrong place for this type of chat though. I see alot of people have Eamon Dunphy syndrome when it comes to Spain.

eagle eye

Headshot wrote: »

stats to win an argument eh , bloody hell

by that reasoning, your joking right, iirc eto'o wanted more money and barca werent going to pay up so he left for pastures new and is in the CL and on for a treble. One thing for sure if he was still at barca they would be way better than ibra

My argument is that Ibra was not a flop by any stretch. He didn't have his best season ever but he didn't have a bad season. He was still one of the top scorers in La Liga.
He will only get better too the longer he is there, he had to get used to playing in a team that play extremely high up the pitch unlike at Inter where he had a lot more space to do his thing.

Johner

Messi,Villa and Pedro. :mad:

Also that is a bargain of a price for Villa imo.

gustavo

Headshot wrote: »

so they are playing one of the best strikers in the world out of position ?
seriously ? and where will pedro go

Villa can play out left ,and it's hardly that much out of position.It's still up front

Messi managed to score 47 goals this season from the other side

MisterAnarchy

Great signing for Barca ,a pity it wasnt a year earlier it would have saved Barca a nice few pound.
Villa is a goal machine and with the service he will get at Barca he could set a record or two.
As for the defence being poor did anyone see Revista De La liga last night and their team of the season ?
Back five,Valdes,Alves,Puyol,Pique and Maxwell ,hmmm

Headshot

gustavo wrote: »

Villa can play out left ,and it's hardly that much out of position.It's still up front

Messi managed to score 47 goals this season from the other side

Gus

iv never seen villa positioned on the left, there's a slight difference between the middle and left tbf

regarding messi

come on that's messi's best position, thought that would of been simple

SlickRic

the 'bad defence' thing is a myth.

plain and simple.

Ush1

Playing a centre forward on the left never works at Barca, who's that Henry fella again?

the_monkey

GAME OVER .

Barça will win everything again in 2011.

I will be ignoring all CL games next season.

Done deal for the fascists.

Auvers

the_monkey wrote: »

GAME OVER .Barça will win everything again in 2011.

yeah right they won the league by the skin of their teeth and got knocked out of the CL by a medicore defensive team and by signing one striker they are going to be unbeatable :pac:

the_monkey wrote: »

Done deal for the fascists.

joe123

Great bit of business. I could go on to mention how if you add up the numerous flop signings Liverpool have made in the last 18 months we would of happily afforded Villa....But I wont.

Le King

the_monkey wrote: »

Done deal for the fascists.

Red your history. You couldn't have it more wrong if you tried.

the_monkey

the_monkey wrote: »

GAME OVER .

Barça will win everything again in 2011.

I will be ignoring all CL games next season.

Done deal for the fascists.

So a brain of a monkey too is it?

Raskolnikov

The real issue with Ibrahimovic was that he simply isn't a Barcelona player (sulking, dubious work ethic and zero determination) and didn't fit in with their style of play (lots of passing, interchangement of positions, lots of pressing).

Villa however fits that mould perfectly, it's hard to not see him fitting in at Barcelona.

rossie1977

was Ibrahimovic any worse of a signing than say berbatov or shevchenko

gimmick

slingerz wrote: »

In fairness they are only challenged by 2/3 teams in the league.

When it comes to the champions league fraility appears against the better sides.

This does not stand up either. Man utd score 1 goal against them in 270 minutes of football over 2 seasons.

Chelsea scored 1 goal against them in 180 mins of football.

Inter got 3, one of which was offside, in 180 mins of football

Arsenal got 3 in 180 mins of football, one of which was a penaltyy that was never.

Stuttgart, Bayern, Lyon all got one each.

AC Milan in 2007 got 1 goal in 180 minutes of football.

Bad defense???

the_monkey wrote: »

Done deal for the fascists.

Really??

rossie1977 wrote: »

was Ibrahimovic any worse of a signing than say berbatov or shevchenko

It has worked about 1000000 times better than both so far anyway.

Johner

gimmick wrote: »

Chelsea scored 1 goal against them in 180 mins of football.

I'm not saying Barca's defense is bad, I think it's actually pretty good but they were terrible against us at the bridge and were really lucky not to concede a couple more, Drogba missed a few sitters and I thought Barca's defense that day was pretty poor.

But there isn't really anything wrong with the defence, Puyol and Pique have a great partnership, Alves is one of the best RB's in the world and when fit Abidal is quality as well.

CorkMan

Johner wrote: »

Messi,Villa and Pedro. :mad:

Also that is a bargain of a price for Villa imo.

depends, Shevchenko moved to Chelsea for 30 million.

Hank Scorpio

if ibra was a flop i cant find the words to describe berbatovs season

CorkMan

nuxxx wrote: »

if ibra was a flop i cant find the words to describe berbatovs season

Absolutely floptaculous.

timetogetfit

TheDoc wrote: »

If I was ibrah I'd be worried.


Alot of talk on numerous threads of a villa, messi ibra combination.

But dont see that happening and Ibra may have mad himself another nice flop move : /

Pique wil be worried too:D

Warper

Thank you Barcelona for this as now you look nailed on for next years Champions League. Barca @ 5-1 and Brazil @ 5-1 for this years World Cup pays 35-1 as a double. We need never work again - Praise Allah.

Scorpion Sting

A brilliant signing for Barca. Their attack will be strengthened enormously with the addition of Villa.

speedboatchase

rossie1977 wrote: »

was Ibrahimovic any worse of a signing than say berbatov or shevchenko

Absolutely, not only did they spend €46m on him, they gave Inter Eto'o (36 goals the year before) and money to buy Motta, Sneijder and Milito (the last two the main contenders imo for CL player of the year and Serie A player of the year respectively) - that's four new first team regulars. Then the new Inter knock Barca out of the CL they're defending and Barca have to take off their new guy after 60 mins in BOTH legs because he's playing rubbish. He's possibly the worst signing of the modern age imo

Seaneh

Frisbee wrote: »

Barca are very good at defense. If the other team don't have the ball they can't score. Barca are probably the best at keeping possession.

Not giving your opponents a chance to score is brilliant defensive work. I'd certainly rather it than having some clogger centre back being reduced to making last ditch tackles all the time.

You're right on your first point.

Barca's midfield does such a good job keeping the ball that their defenders are rarely tested. this doesn't actually mean their defence is any good.


That said, Pique is a very good young player and has a loy of potential, very few CB's are as good on the ball as the big young fella they let UTD develop for them for a few years before stealing him back.
They also have the mexican captain who is as solid as they come and Milito who can read the game very well.


However, they have the most over rated CB of all time as their club captain. a clogger center back who is reduced to making last ditch tackles all the time because he cannot read the game and doesn't have the positional sense needed to be a top center back.

He was too slow and clumsy to be a good RB so got pushed into the middle where his lack of intelligence has been exposed again and again. Only in the team for the same reason Sergio is in the team. Where he is from.

gimmick

Seaneh wrote: »

You're right on your first point.

Barca's midfield does such a good job keeping the ball that their defenders are rarely tested. this doesn't actually mean their defence is any good.


That said, Pique is a very good young player and has a loy of potential, very few CB's are as good on the ball as the big young fella they let UTD develop for them for a few years before stealing him back.
They also have the mexican captain who is as solid as they come and Milito who can read the game very well.


However, they have the most over rated CB of all time as their club captain. a clogger center back who is reduced to making last ditch tackles all the time because he cannot read the game and doesn't have the positional sense needed to be a top center back.

He was too slow and clumsy to be a good RB so got pushed into the middle where his lack of intelligence has been exposed again and again. Only in the team for the same reason Sergio is in the team. Where he is from.

Bloody hell, you are jokuing and looking for a rise I assume? I'll bite. Where to start with this?

First things first - Marquez has been terrible for about 3-4 years now. He is not dependable and he is far from solid, hence his lack of game time this season. I would ahve him packing his bags tbh.

Secondly, Barca did not steal back Pique. He left with Fergies blessing as Fergie saw no place for him just yet.

But then you say that about Puyol? Bad positional sense? Cannot read the game? Sorry, but no, that is completely 100% incorrect. he has been 1st choice, and captain under 3 successive managers, not to mention the heart of the Spanish international defense. There is not a captain, or centre half in the world I would have over Puyol.

And just to finish

Barca's midfield does such a good job keeping the ball that their defenders are rarely tested - this doesn't actually mean their defence is any good.

No comment.

noodler

Ush1 wrote: »

lmao @ Ibra being a "flop".

Not sure how many goals he scored, I believe it was a decent return even if alot of people seemd to criticise him for not scoring in big games. Not sure how true it is.

I think the real source of the flop claims would be the face they sold a better player (IMO) and gave £40m to Inter for him. Not really his fault I guess.

Seaneh

gimmick wrote: »

Bloody hell, you are jokuing and looking for a rise I assume? I'll bite. Where to start with this?

First things first - Marquez has been terrible for about 3-4 years now. He is not dependable and he is far from solid, hence his lack of game time this season. I would ahve him packing his bags tbh.

Secondly, Barca did not steal back Pique. He left with Fergies blessing as Fergie saw no place for him just yet.

But then you say that about Puyol? Bad positional sense? Cannot read the game? Sorry, but no, that is completely 100% incorrect. he has been 1st choice, and captain under 3 successive managers, not to mention the heart of the Spanish international defense. There is not a captain, or centre half in the world I would have over Puyol.

And just to finish



No comment.

Pique left for the same reason Fabregas did, he was sick of playing in a team that won their games 14-0 because in spain the under age teams up until 18 play in the regional leagues, so barca under 14's play the likes of Cheery Orchard/St. Peters/Tullamore week in week out and some players feel that their development is stunted because of it. and I ment getitng him back for 3m was a steal, not that it was illegal or under handed. Stupid sell by united IMHO, they could have just loaned to to Zaragoza/whoever for another year or two. Marquez was a good player, lack of game time means he's lacking match fittness now, he should have left a few years ago.

I still maintain that Puyol is Barca's 4th best CB.

I could name several CB's off the top of my head I'd take over Puyol in a heartbeat. There are 2 of them at UTD, 3 at Chelsea, 2 at Milan, 2 at Inter, 2 at Barca, 2 at Spurs, 1 at Fiorentina, 1 at Juve, 1 at Bayern.

As for being the heart of spains defense, Jesus, up until recently they have been terrible,so thats not hard, he's surely, by rights, behind Pique and Albiol now? Marchena too.

Dont be at yourself

He's a flop because he wasn't brought in to be a flat track bully. They had a perfectly good striker in Etoo to bang them in as it was.

He was brought in to offer a new dimension for Barca, for when their usual brand of football wasn't working. For those tight European second legs where they need a goal against a parked bus. And he didn't perform, at all. When Barca needed him most, he was nowhere to be seen, substituted and upstaged by the centre-back Pique scoring the goal that Ibra was brought in at great expense to score.

noodler

Seaneh wrote: »

As for being the heart of spains defense, Jesus, up until recently they have been terrible,

Can I just remind you that when people highlight Barca's defense, it is becasue they are looking for some relative weakness in an otherwise stellar setup.

Their defense is by no means crap as two titles in a row and two CL finals in a row(and one CL win) would highlight.

GLaDOS

Have to laugh at people saying Barca's defence is poor, they conceded 24 goals this season, 10 less than next placed Madrid, in a league that is typically considered more attack minded than the EPL.

Chelsea conceded 32. United conceded 28.

Over 2 legs Barca conceded 3 against Inter.
Chelsea conceded 3 against the same team over 2 legs.
United conceded 4 against Bayern.

What more do you want them to do?

PHB

I think Puyol is a bleh defender, reminds me of Terry. All fluster due to poor positioning then last minute tackles and everyone thinks of him as the big man. He personifies the club, b ut frankly, is a good, but not great defender. Pique is the future of the Barca defence, and I've no doubt that they are looking already long-term to find his partner for the next 10 years.

Peyton Manning

Anyone else reeeeally looking forward to the new FIFA/Pro Evo with all these big transfers?

IvySlayer

Stop saying Barca have a bad defence!

Sound like ****ing Giles and Dunphy.

'Ohh yeah they're good going forward but they're not good at the back'

Ush1

noodler wrote: »

Can I just remind you that when people highlight Barca's defense, it is becasue they are looking for some relative weakness in an otherwise stellar setup.

Their defense is by no means crap as two titles in a row and two CL finals in a row(and one CL win) would highlight.

They didn't reach 2 CL finals in a row.

Ush1

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

He's a flop because he wasn't brought in to be a flat track bully. They had a perfectly good striker in Etoo to bang them in as it was.

He was brought in to offer a new dimension for Barca, for when their usual brand of football wasn't working. For those tight European second legs where they need a goal against a parked bus. And he didn't perform, at all. When Barca needed him most, he was nowhere to be seen, substituted and upstaged by the centre-back Pique scoring the goal that Ibra was brought in at great expense to score.

Unfortunately Eto'o leaving wasn't that simple.

Jigga

Question for the Ibra defenders - why was he taken off after 60 minutes in both legs versus Inter? The fact that Guardiola thought putting a central defender in Pique up front was a better option instead spoke volumes. Fair play to Barca for acknowledging that it was a poor transfer in buying Villa.

parker kent

gimmick wrote: »

Iniesta is better deployed in midfield. In that you also forget about Pedro who has made his place own this season.

Pedro is still very young, if Fabregas is signed (and that is still an if!) I would be very surprised to see his starting regularly. They could also try Fabregas in the advanced role, would not be too dissimilar to where he plays for Spain (when he actually gets a game that is!)

Frisbee wrote: »

Barca are very good at defense. If the other team don't have the ball they can't score. Barca are probably the best at keeping possession.

Not giving your opponents a chance to score is brilliant defensive work. I'd certainly rather it than having some clogger centre back being reduced to making last ditch tackles all the time.

To imply that it is a choice between a clogger and using possession as a form of defence is just wrong. Arsenal and Barca fans often think that having a strong CB is some form of cheating, it is not! It is just another aspect of the game, one that any all-time great team should be looking to do well. Of course, considering the amount of possession Barca have, they will give away few chances. But all the huffing and puffing of Barca fans with stats cannot eliminate the obvious issues they suffer from at times. Some here are comparing goals against with United or Chelsea. Apart from ignoring United's injuries at the back this season, the fact that they play in different leagues against different teams and that the Premiership is much more competitive than La Liga at the minute makes any such points irrelevant.

To say that they would not be improved by adding a top class centre back and holding midfielder is just wrong. The Arsenal games are great examples of them giving away a lot of chances, especially considering how little of the ball Arsenal actually had. Puyol has been a liability for years IMO. Sure he has lots of passion and makes last gasp tackles etc. But he is so often horribly out of position. An armband and cult status does not make a great defender. Just look at Gary Neville!

Anyway...back to David Villa! He will add a extra dimension to what they currently have. Continually freshening up the front three each year is a great move that Barca have been doing now for a few years. Prevents teams from learning how to stop them. The evolution from the Ronaldinho/Eto'o/Giuly days to today has been wonderful to watch.

flahavaj

gimmick wrote: »

At this stage, I reckon you are just looking for a reaction.

If you think Ibra has been a flop, thats your opinion. Sure, he could have been better, but as I have said already, could have been a damn sight worse. I would not say flop, but I also would not say a raging success.

Anyway, Villa has agreed to sign for Barca I hear.

Your words were stronger the night of the Inter match.;):pac: