Landis admits doping, points finger at LA - Please read Mod Warning post 1

TinyExplosions

petethedrummer wrote: »

I think he said that in the CBS interview. Maybe not the long version, but there are indivual segments that are more detailed than the long one.

I'm think what's coming to light now is confirmation that it's Martí, rather than "a trainer I worked with", though it was widely speculated that that's who was being alluded to (either him or ferrari)

Hermy

This year, the only people responsible for Alberto’s calendar and preparation are the members of the Saxo Bank team and Bjarne Riis.

That's reassuring!

Junior

TinyExplosions wrote: »

I'm think what's coming to light now is confirmation that it's Martí, rather than "a trainer I worked with", though it was widely speculated that that's who was being alluded to (either him or ferrari)

I'm sure he said it in that interview about Nascar that was up on yahoo.com - he was asked about Bertie and said all I know for sure is his trainer was my supplier.

Slideshowbob

Anyone know?

Sr. Assumpta

And tonight's Lotto numbers while you're at it......

sy

When he becomes Governor of Texas..

feck sake lads

the greatest cyclist of all time
ok ssb wait for the **** to hit the fan:D:D

C3PO

No matter what the end result is ...... it will go on for years! Personally I don't care anymore, life's too short!

Beasty

RPL1 wrote: »

No matter what the end result is ...... it will go on for years! Personally I don't care anymore, life's too short!

Same here - couldn't stand the thought of another 80 odd pages going over the same old stuff again, so thought it best to merge the threads;)

-Trek-

sy wrote: »

When he becomes Governor of Texas..

Is that likely to happen? run for governor that is?

kumate_champ07

-Trek- wrote: »

Is that likely to happen? run for governor that is?

he bet cancer.

hardCopy

iTalkSport had an interview with Bill Gifford about his article on the Lance Armstrong Foundation.

Gifford visited the foundation and questions how their money is spent. Apparently they don't fund any cancer research and haven't done since 2005 and the vast majority of their money goes on marketing and Cancer Awareness programs.

It may not be huge news to those who follow the whole Lance drama but it highlights how much he personally benefits from the cross promotion of charitable sponsorship and his personal brand.

The dodgiest bit was probably the sale of the livestrong.com domain to Demand Media. The foundation sold the web address to a content farm, the foundation, Lance and his agents each received shares in Demand Media.

Kimmage interviewed Gifford on the show, it'll probably be repeated all week.

iregk

Am I suffering from deja vu or did I not read an article almost identical to that one last year?

RobFowl

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056518750&page=4

Interesting to see how the Athletics forum is reacting to Martin Fagan's positive for EPO !

dave2pvd

hardCopy wrote: »

Apparently they don't fund any cancer research and haven't done since 2005 and the vast majority of their money goes on marketing and Cancer Awareness programs.

Please don't equate the following with supporting LA, but:

Cancer awareness is just as important as cancer treatment. So many people die from cancer because they are unaware of symptoms, or put off going to the doctor despite symptoms. This prevents early diagnosis, a key factor in successful treatment.

hardCopy

dave2pvd wrote: »

Please don't equate the following with supporting LA, but:

Cancer awareness is just as important as cancer treatment. So many people die from cancer because they are unaware of symptoms, or put off going to the doctor despite symptoms. This prevents early diagnosis, a key factor in successful treatment.

True, I think Gifford's problem is that Livestrong seems to be about raising awareness of Lance more than anything else.

drogdub

BREAKING NEWS: Associated Press is reporting that Federal investigation into Lance Armstrong is now closed. No charges to be brought

RobFowl

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/CYC_DOPING_ARMSTRONG?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Prosecutors close Armstrong inquiry, no charges
By GREG RISLING
Associated Press
Federal prosecutors closed their investigation of Lance Armstrong without charging him over allegations he used performance-enhancing drugs Friday, ending a nearly two-year effort aimed at examining whether a doping program was created to keep the seven-time Tour de France winner and his teammates running at the head of the pack.
Armstrong has steadfastly denied he doped during his unparalleled career, but the possibility of criminal charges threatened to stain his legacy as the world's greatest cyclist and could have cast a shadow over his cancer charity work.
The probe, anchored in Los Angeles where a grand jury was presented evidence by federal prosecutors and heard testimony from Armstrong's former teammates and associates, began with a separate investigation of Rock Racing, a cycling team owned by fashion entrepreneur Michael Ball.
United States Attorney Andre Birotte Jr. announced in a press release that his office "is closing an investigation into allegations of federal criminal conduct by members and associates of a professional bicycle racing team owned in part by Lance Armstrong."
He didn't disclose the reason for the decision.
The pronouncement comes after a pair of less-than-successful cases against top athletes accused of doping. Home run king Barry Bonds was found guilty of obstruction of justice and sentenced in December to 30 days' home detention - a conviction he's appealing - but prosecutors were unable to convince a jury he lied about using steroids. Roger Clemens' steroid trial is slated for April 17 after a judge declared a mistrial last summer when prosecutors showed jurors inadmissible evidence.
Investigators looked at whether a doping program was established for Armstrong's team while, at least part of the time, they received government sponsorship from the U.S. Postal Service. They also examined whether Armstrong encouraged or facilitated doping on the team.
Armstrong won the Tour de France every year from 1999-2005.
Led by federal agent Jeff Novitzky, who also investigated Bonds and Clemens, U.S. authorities sought assistance overseas, requesting urine samples of U.S. Postal riders from France's anti-doping agency and also meeting with officials from Belgium, Spain and Italy.
Prosecutors also subpoenaed Armstrong supporters and ex-teammates to testify in Los Angeles. Among them were Ukrainian cyclist Yaroslav Popovych, who rode on three Armstrong teams dating back to 2005; Allen Lim, an exercise physiologist for Team Radioshack; and longtime Armstrong friend Stephanie McIlvain.
The investigation began after Novitzky was told about a cache of PEDs found by a landlord in the vacated apartment of Kyle Leogrande, a cyclist who rode for Rock Racing and had a doping ban, according to several people familiar with the case.
The investigation also was spurred by disgraced cyclist Floyd Landis, who claims Armstrong had a long-running doping system in place while they were teammates. Landis, who was stripped of the 2006 Tour de France title for drug use, acknowledged in 2010 he used performance-enhancing drugs after years of denying he cheated.
One of the most serious accusations came during a "60 Minutes" interview last May when former teammate Tyler Hamilton said he saw Armstrong use EPO during the 1999 Tour de France and in preparation for the 2000 and 2001 tours.
The report also said Armstrong loyalist George Hincapie, another ex-teammate, told federal authorities that he and Armstrong supplied each other with PEDs and discussed them. Hincapie released a statement after the segment aired, saying he did not speak with the show and didn't know where it got its information.
As the investigation progressed, Armstrong assembled a legal team, hired a spokesman and briefly created a website to address any of the allegations reported by the media.
Frustrated by a slew of news articles about the investigation, Armstrong's attorneys filed a motion in July, asking a judge to order federal agents to testify about their contacts with reporters

uberwolf

wow. I didn't actually see this coming.

morana

RobFowl wrote: »

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/CYC_DOPING_ARMSTRONG?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Prosecutors close Armstrong inquiry, no charges
By GREG RISLING
Associated Press
Federal prosecutors closed their investigation of Lance Armstrong without charging him over allegations he used performance-enhancing drugs Friday, ending a nearly two-year effort aimed at examining whether a doping program was created to keep the seven-time Tour de France winner and his teammates running at the head of the pack.
Armstrong has steadfastly denied he doped during his unparalleled career, but the possibility of criminal charges threatened to stain his legacy as the world's greatest cyclist and could have cast a shadow over his cancer charity work.
The probe, anchored in Los Angeles where a grand jury was presented evidence by federal prosecutors and heard testimony from Armstrong's former teammates and associates, began with a separate investigation of Rock Racing, a cycling team owned by fashion entrepreneur Michael Ball.
United States Attorney Andre Birotte Jr. announced in a press release that his office "is closing an investigation into allegations of federal criminal conduct by members and associates of a professional bicycle racing team owned in part by Lance Armstrong."
He didn't disclose the reason for the decision.
The pronouncement comes after a pair of less-than-successful cases against top athletes accused of doping. Home run king Barry Bonds was found guilty of obstruction of justice and sentenced in December to 30 days' home detention - a conviction he's appealing - but prosecutors were unable to convince a jury he lied about using steroids. Roger Clemens' steroid trial is slated for April 17 after a judge declared a mistrial last summer when prosecutors showed jurors inadmissible evidence.
Investigators looked at whether a doping program was established for Armstrong's team while, at least part of the time, they received government sponsorship from the U.S. Postal Service. They also examined whether Armstrong encouraged or facilitated doping on the team.
Armstrong won the Tour de France every year from 1999-2005.
Led by federal agent Jeff Novitzky, who also investigated Bonds and Clemens, U.S. authorities sought assistance overseas, requesting urine samples of U.S. Postal riders from France's anti-doping agency and also meeting with officials from Belgium, Spain and Italy.
Prosecutors also subpoenaed Armstrong supporters and ex-teammates to testify in Los Angeles. Among them were Ukrainian cyclist Yaroslav Popovych, who rode on three Armstrong teams dating back to 2005; Allen Lim, an exercise physiologist for Team Radioshack; and longtime Armstrong friend Stephanie McIlvain.
The investigation began after Novitzky was told about a cache of PEDs found by a landlord in the vacated apartment of Kyle Leogrande, a cyclist who rode for Rock Racing and had a doping ban, according to several people familiar with the case.
The investigation also was spurred by disgraced cyclist Floyd Landis, who claims Armstrong had a long-running doping system in place while they were teammates. Landis, who was stripped of the 2006 Tour de France title for drug use, acknowledged in 2010 he used performance-enhancing drugs after years of denying he cheated.
One of the most serious accusations came during a "60 Minutes" interview last May when former teammate Tyler Hamilton said he saw Armstrong use EPO during the 1999 Tour de France and in preparation for the 2000 and 2001 tours.
The report also said Armstrong loyalist George Hincapie, another ex-teammate, told federal authorities that he and Armstrong supplied each other with PEDs and discussed them. Hincapie released a statement after the segment aired, saying he did not speak with the show and didn't know where it got its information.
As the investigation progressed, Armstrong assembled a legal team, hired a spokesman and briefly created a website to address any of the allegations reported by the media.
Frustrated by a slew of news articles about the investigation, Armstrong's attorneys filed a motion in July, asking a judge to order federal agents to testify about their contacts with reporters

bollox!!! This is the worst result for cycling in the history of the sport bar none!

C3PO

Well I'm really pleased but I don't suppose his detractors will be shut up for long!

C3PO

morana wrote: »

bollox!!! This is the worst result for cycling in the history of the sport bar none!

Why? Is it not possible that, despite all the efforts of the investigators, there was no real evidence against him? While he is a deeply unpleasant personality he was, in my opinion, one of the great athletes of his generation!

drogdub

Meanwhile over at the Kimmage house

morana

RPL1 wrote: »

Why? Is it not possible that, despite all the efforts of the investigators, there was no real evidence against him? While he is a deeply unpleasant personality he was, in my opinion, one of the great athletes of his generation!

No.

ROK ON

Not an LA or BC fan for that matter, but if prosecutors cannot make a case in a reasonable time frame there is no case.

If these were criminal investigations I don not believe the DPP would ever prosecute.
Everyone of note doped in that era. Authorities should focus on routing out present day cheating.
The past literally is a different country.

NickDrake

Greatest shame in sporting history.

Absolutely disgraceful.

C3PO

morana wrote: »

No.

Ah well ... we'll just have to agree to disagree! I'm just glad that some of my favourite sporting memories are still intact (so far!)

NickDrake

Contador will more than likely get off on Monday too. What a joke of a sport.

Beasty

Please remember doping speculation is not allowed. None of us are privvy to the fine details of the investgation, or the reasons for this decision (which appears not to have been disclosed)

I've repeated this warning in post #1 to ensure everyone sees it without having to trawl through the whole thread

Thanks

Beasty

morana

I love cycling! I love watching youngsters leanring to ride their bikes, I love watching vets fighting like their life depended on a race, I love watching guys like bracken, shaun gray, gerry mccabe etc. etc. and the enjoyment they get from the sport. the cyclo cross champs were sensational.....and then we have this cancer.

If I committed a murder back in 1976 and the person I killed happened to get some tiny part of my dna on them they could convict me know. Lets use that technology here.

lets end the deception now. retest all of his samples from those tours. I bet they would turn up some peculiar results probably wrong showing some traces of H*h or e*o due to deterioration or something like that.

this is the the worst result for the sport. I was looking forward to the day when the UCI announced his results were expunged. sadly not to be.....

Beasty

morana wrote: »

Lets use that technology here.

Can we please have this discussion in general terms and not specific to any identifiable individual(s)

If posters continue to make posts implicating specific individuals who have not been proven to have taken drugs, infractions and or bans will be handed out, and posts deleted

morana

Beasty wrote: »

Can we please have this discussion in general terms and not specific to any identifiable individual(s)

If posters continue to make posts implicating specific individuals who have not been proven to have taken drugs, infractions and or bans will be handed out, and posts deleted

Beasty I apologise profusely!!! I hope nobody thinks Lance committed murder and has DNA on any dead bodies and btw I didnt kill anybody yet either...

C3PO

morana wrote: »

I was looking forward to the day when the UCI announced his results were expunged. sadly not to be.....

Like the US Federal Prosecutors they would probably require some real proof ....

morana

RPL1 wrote: »

Like the US Federal Prosecutors they would probably require some real proof ....

I think it would be wrong of me to accuse any (american) person of drug taking in this forum.

They have no proof of the misappropriation of government funds into buying drugs thats all.

I suggest somebody put the coffee on and we all start sniffing it

drogdub

Its not over yet. The feds may have given up, according to Shane Stokes on Twitter media coverage the reason case dropped.

But USADA haven't closed their investigation "look forward to obtaining the information developed during the federal investigation." as per link:

http://www.usada.org/media/statement232012

Now thats fighting talk if ever I heard (read) it

Harrybelafonte

Ugh, sometimes I regret starting this thread. It was inevitably going to be a disappointing result. However, I'll still stand over my dislike for Armstrong, for many reasons, beyond any allegations of doping, but mostly because of his treatment of Filippo Simeoni. He is not someone I would offer up as a role model to my son. A lot of the great cycling names had some bad habits, made mistakes, but their strength of character and attitude always stand to them. The same cannot, for me, be said of Armstrong. Unfortunately, more often than not, the real world is a place where bullying and ungentlemanly behaviour is king in the misunderstanding for many that "winning" at all costs is the key to success. I think Mr Armstrong will most likely finally fade away now, and maybe at last we can get on with concentrating on cleaning up contemporary cycling and leave him in the pile of cyclists who made in it in the most dubious of times for cycling.

Fr D Maugire

I just find it strange that after two years they just dropped the case. Surely they turned up something.

I never really cared if he was prosecuted, just want to see him revealed for the complete sham he is.

I dont really put much faith in the USADA either, if the FEDs cant get it done I highly doubt if anyone else can.

I guess, once again money and lawyers triumphed over justice.

happytramp

Just watched coverage on Sky News. It wasn't really making out that Armstrong was innocent or exonerated in any way. Merely stated that the Feds felt that they could not continue with the case due to coverage in the media? Weird.

drogdub

Fr D Maugire wrote: »

I just find it strange that after two years they just dropped the case. Surely they turned up something.

I never really cared if he was prosecuted, just want to see him revealed for the complete sham he is.

I dont really put much faith in the USADA either, if the FEDs cant get it done I highly doubt if anyone else can.

I guess, once again money and lawyers triumphed over justice.

In fairness the Feds may have felt that the adverse publicity may have led to a successful defense that a fair hearing would be impossible as a jury would be prejudiced. This may have been reflected in the Grand Jury. Remember the Haughey and Harney farce here. USADA don't have the same issue here.

velopeloton

I'm sure more will be revealed over time. It would seem that the investigation was botched from the start, enough leaks took place to ensure that it would not be a fair trial and was unlikely to be successful. That would be reason to drop it. If there was no case to answer that means that Landis, Hamilton Andreu and many others lied to federal agents under oath and would now face charges themselves. I don't think that is the case.

AstraMonti

Or.. LA is too big of a face in US to have him prosecuted... Just saying..

happytramp

I know Paul Kimmage would punch me in the mouth for suggesting this but is there anyway a guilty verdict (no matter how satisfying on a personal level) would do cycling more harm than good at this stage? Or do you think it could have served to act as a final nail in the coffin to the drug culture within the sport?

Fr D Maugire

happytramp wrote: »

I know Paul Kimmage would punch me in the mouth for suggesting this but is there anyway a guilty verdict (no matter how satisfying on a personal level) would do cycling more harm than good at this stage? Or do you think it could have served to act as a final nail in the coffin to the drug culture within the sport?

I dont think the outcome of Armstrong case would have had any major effect on doping itself. Unfortunately it will always exist. Maybe if he was found guilty, a lot more people would be open about talking about doping.

I just think it will be sad if a person who intertwined cancer and cheating so shamelessly to enrich himself and his ego will get away totally free. To think Contador could likely go down Monday and this guy is walking around spotuing the same crap over and over.

furiousox

"Make it go away George.."

Surveyor11

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/04/sports/cycling/federal-prosecutors-drop-lance-armstrong-investigation.html

AstraMonti

RPL1 wrote: »

Why? Is it not possible that, despite all the efforts of the investigators, there was no real evidence against him? While he is a deeply unpleasant personality he was, in my opinion, one of the great athletes of his generation!

That's all the evidence you need right here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXPXHK7I1iQ

A dopped up to his eyeballs Pantani vs a clean Armstrong. :rolleyes:

Chips Lovell

Threads merged

Bluefoam

AstraMonti wrote: »

RPL1 wrote: »

Why? Is it not possible that, despite all the efforts of the investigators, there was no real evidence against him? While he is a deeply unpleasant personality he was, in my opinion, one of the great athletes of his generation!

That's all the evidence you need right here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXPXHK7I1iQ

A dopped up to his eyeballs Pantani vs a clean Armstrong. :rolleyes:

Your interpretation of the word evidence is somewhat confused...

L'Enfer du Nord

Bluefoam wrote: »

Your interpretation of the word evidence is somewhat confused...

"Afterwards [Armstrong] claimed he gave the stage to Pantani", what a gracless creep! Didn't look like it to me, but who knows.

Leroy42

So the french hace been chasing LA for years, then the feds get involved, yet none have been able to uncover sufficient evidence (sufficient being the important word) that would allow a prosecution.

Yet somehow, all of you guys just 'know' that he doped. Based on what evidence. Circumstantial, certainly, but is that enough to wipe out the achievments of the greatest TdF champion in history (in terms of victories).

Is he a nice person? don't know, only met him at that cycle in the Phenix Park and he certianly seemed perfectly reasonable to me. Is he a egomanic, self centered, and willing to ditch everyone in pursuit of his goals? In all likelyhood, but then that is the same for very many (but not all) great champions. They have to be ruthless, totally focused on their own goals.

At the end of the day he was trying, and succeeding, in winning the greatest cycle race in the world. He was not trying to win person of the year awards.

You don't have to like him, you don't have to admire his achievments (which on face value should be admired) but it would appear that like the moon landings conspiracy theorists no amount of evidence (or non evidence) will ever satisfy them.

Imagine someone accused you of something, and despite nobody being able to give any strong evidence you where labeled as a thief etc. Doesn't seem fair to me.

I am not saying for one second that he didn't dope, but this constant line from people that he is cancer on the sport based on nothing more than their personal dislike of the man seems extreme.