Landis admits doping, points finger at LA - Please read Mod Warning post 1

DirkVoodoo

Lumen wrote: »

No I don't think that the Olympics is clean, but you're suggesting that Wiggins doped throughout his consistently successful 11 year track career, then continued in his transition to road racing, without once getting caught or attracting allegations, despite slagging the dopers. That's a bit hard to believe.

He also went through a complete metamorphosis. He wasn't beating all the skinny climbers as a big powerful rider, he was a skinny climber beating other skinny climbers.

DirkVoodoo

mloc123 wrote: »

Perhaps the real competition is in who can dope the best. You have to hand it to Lance, he is the most tested athlete in the world and has never been caught...

Or else gets caught and just has a bigger cheque book than everyone else....

davyjose

biker_joe wrote: »

Lumen
Do you think that the Olympics are clean ???? Don't think so !!!

I would think once you have doped the once and got away with it .. I would imagine it would be very hard to just stop and count your blessings ....

I would like to think that they are all clean, or innocent until proven guilty .. but in the case of cycling it's the other way around !!!!

Having watched alot of cycling over the years.. I always take results with a pinch of salt cos for the most part the results do become null and void in alot of cases .due to doping etc ....( take all of lance's Tour Podiums, is there one clean podium out of the 7 ? )

Joe

It's definitely not the same thing. Wiggins may well have won the Olympics clean; he'd been training, and winning on the track his entire life. The difference lies in the fact that he was able to go from also-ran to contender on the road.

the type of doping required to wn on the track vs the road are totally different also. The hematocrit levels are not nearly as affected by track racing, than the wear and tear of a 3 week road race.

Signal_ rabbit

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

He also went through a complete metamorphosis. He wasn't beating all the skinny climbers as a big powerful rider, he was a skinny climber beating other skinny climbers.

Hence the nickname 'Twiggo'.

Chips Lovell

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Does it not even warrant investigation or are these just the rantings of a madman?

USADA and the feds are investigating. WADA has also just said they'll investigate

davyjose

el tonto wrote: »

USADA and the feds are investigating. WADA has also just said they'll investigate

and they already haven't in the 4 years since Landis failed his test and lost the yellow Jersey?

ROK ON

I would be astonished if the bribery allegation goes uninvestigated.

biker_joe

yes lets get back to Tom Cruise and his team of lawyers !!! eh I meant to say ... pants armstrong !!!

RobFowl

biker_joe wrote: »

Lumen
Do you think that the Olympics are clean ???? Don't think so !!!

I would think once you have doped the once and got away with it .. I would imagine it would be very hard to just stop and count your blessings ....

I would like to think that they are all clean, or innocent until proven guilty .. but in the case of cycling it's the other way around !!!!

Having watched alot of cycling over the years.. I always take results with a pinch of salt cos for the most part the results do become null and void in alot of cases .due to doping etc ....( take all of lance's Tour Podiums, is there one clean podium out of the 7 ? )

Joe

In my memory the only "clean" podium finishers were maybe LeMond, Evans, possibly Sastre (but wary of the ONCE connection). Caahrly Mottet and Eric Caritoux were also supposed to be "clean" and they podiumed in grand tours.
I've grave doubts about almost everyone else.

Chips Lovell

davyjose wrote: »

and they already haven't in the 4 years since Landis failed his test and lost the yellow Jersey?

USADA were the ones who issued his suspension.

biker_joe

RobFowl wrote: »

In my memory the only "clean" podium finishers were maybe LeMond, Evans, possibly Sastre (but wary of the ONCE connection). Caahrly Mottet and Eric Caritoux were also supposed to be "clean" and they podiumed in grand tours.
I've grave doubts about almost everyone else.

Nevermind the ONCE connection, it's the Riis one I would be concerned about !! :eek:

Chips Lovell

biker_joe wrote: »

Nevermind the ONCE connection, it's the Riis one I would be concerned about !! :eek:

The two of them had a very difficult relationship by all accounts.

davyjose

el tonto wrote: »

USADA were the ones who issued his suspension.

Exactly, so anything the say they're going to investigate now, is just lip-service.

Chips Lovell

davyjose wrote: »

Exactly, so anything the say they're going to investigate now, is just lip-service.

Eh? Last time out they were investigating his 2006 positive test. Now it's career length doping and allegations about other riders and directors.

davyjose

el tonto wrote: »

Eh? Last time out they were investigating his 2006 positive test. Now it's career length doping and allegations about other riders and directors.

I have to say, I'm still not convinced. I'm not sure they're going to topple the LA house of cards, merely because an already proven cheat decided to come clean.

If they were waiting for Landis to make this admission before investigating the USPS team Landis was a part of, then they're bumbling fools, tbh.

Chips Lovell

davyjose wrote: »

I have to say, I'm still not convinced. I'm not sure they're going to topple the LA house of cards, merely because an already proven cheat decided to come clean.

If they were waiting for Landis to make this admission before investigating the USPS team Landis was a part of, then they're bumbling fools, tbh.

He's the first person who has come out and not only admitted doing it, but said he saw everyone else doing it to. Contrast that with Andreau, for example, who would only admit his own guilt and say nothing about Armstrong.

davyjose

el tonto wrote: »

He's the first person who has come out and not only admitted doing it, but said he saw everyone else doing it to. Contrast that with Andreau, for example, who would only admit his own guilt and say nothing about Armstrong.

Yeah, but that brings us back to "proven cheat and liar says Armstrong used drugs". I can't see how that carrys any weight.

Surely any viable, tangible evidence is now long gone?

It's not a credibility issue with Armstrong - it's a proof issue.

Chips Lovell

davyjose wrote: »

Yeah, but that brings us back to "proven cheat and liar says Armstrong used drugs". I can't see how that carrys any weight.

Surely any viable, tangible evidence is now long gone?

It's not a credibility issue with Armstrong - it's a proof issue.

Something tells me Landis would not stick his neck on the line unless he can back himself up. He's already said he kept detailed training diaries throughout those years. His last line in that email also sounds ominious "Look forward to much more detail as soon as you can demonstrate that you can be trusted to do the right thing."

davyjose

el tonto wrote: »

Something tells me Landis would not stick his neck on the line unless he can back himself up.

Perhaps, but right now, Armstrong issue aside, he looks pretty damn stupid. He's a bone fide cheat, and worst of all he made money out of his lies. he's an out-and-out clown, IMO.

This isn't (supposed to be) an anti-Landis rant, but if you're counting on the guy to mastermind the collapse of the Lance Armstrong machine, expect to be disappointed. that's all I'm saying.

ednwireland

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

He also went through a complete metamorphosis. He wasn't beating all the skinny climbers as a big powerful rider, he was a skinny climber beating other skinny climbers.

oh you mean not like "big mig" hes got big engine - honest

Chips Lovell

davyjose wrote: »

Perhaps, but right now, Armstrong issue aside, he looks pretty damn stupid. He's a bone fide cheat, and worst of all he made money out of his lies. he's an out-and-out clown, IMO.

This isn't (supposed to be) an anti-Landis rant, but if you're counting on the guy to mastermind the collapse of the Lance Armstrong machine, expect to be disappointed. that's all I'm saying.

I see where you're coming from alright. I just think it's going to be very hard to sweep this under the carpet. Landis isn't necessarily the mastermind, rather the guy who's pulled the cork out of the bottle.

If all of this is ture, in order to cover it up, everyone named (and there's a lot of them) is going to have to lie. That includes the die hards but also the guys who it never sat easily with and did it because it was expected of them. And they'd all have to lie consistantly, because every journalist worth their salt will be picking at their stories looking for holes.

Also, if the feds are getting involved, some people might start getting nervous. It's one thing lying to a doping hearing, another lying under oath.

Secondly, what motivation would he have for lying now? If it's money, he's gone about it the wrong way. He deliberately did it before the statute of limitations expired, thus exposing himself to sanction as well as others. He could have written a book and done TV interviews and netted himself a nice deal but instead he emailed officials quietly. For all we know, it was them, not him, who leaked the story.

teufelswerk

Hungrycol wrote: »

Stockholm Syndrome. Maybe if enough people are saying you're doping you'll begin to start thinking you did.

Stockholm Syndrome? He was being kept hostage by his team?Can't blame him for doping in that case!!

Chips Lovell

Pat McQuaid is going down in my estimation by the minute:

UCI President Pat McQuaid told the Associated Press that Landis' allegations were "scandalous and mischievous."

"These guys coming out now with things like this from the past is only damaging the sport. If they've any love for the sport they wouldn't do it," he said.

Pherekydes

RobFowl wrote: »

In my memory the only "clean" podium finishers were maybe LeMond, Evans, possibly Sastre (but wary of the ONCE connection). Caahrly Mottet and Eric Caritoux were also supposed to be "clean" and they podiumed in grand tours.
I've grave doubts about almost everyone else.

Gee, and there was I thinking Kimmage was the only clean TdF rider ever. In fact, I think Kimmage is the only clean cyclist ever. At least in his own mind.

godihatedehills

Pherekydes wrote: »

Gee, and there was I thinking Kimmage was the only clean TdF rider ever. In fact, I think Kimmage is the only clean cyclist ever. At least in his own mind.

Only Kimmage wasn't.

ednwireland

el tonto wrote: »

Pat McQuaid is going down in my estimation by the minute:

UCI President Pat McQuaid told the Associated Press that Landis' allegations were "scandalous and mischievous."

"These guys coming out now with things like this from the past is only damaging the sport. If they've any love for the sport they wouldn't do it," he said.

i knew he was an a**hole but jeez

isnt that the attitude that got us here in the first place ?
move along no doping to see here !

Chips Lovell

ednwireland wrote: »

i knew he was an a**hole but jeez

isnt that the attitude that got us here in the first place ?
move along no doping to see here !

If I was doing PR for the UCI, I'd be wrestling McQuaid to the ground right now with a bottle of chloroform.

Busloads of riders getting blood transfusions is what's damaging the sport Pat.

davyjose

Pherekydes wrote: »

Gee, and there was I thinking Kimmage was the only clean TdF rider ever. In fact, I think Kimmage is the only clean cyclist ever. At least in his own mind.

Kimmage admitted, in his book, to taking amphetamines.... just saying.

davyjose

el tonto wrote: »

I see where you're coming from alright. I just think it's going to be very hard to sweep this under the carpet. Landis isn't necessarily the mastermind, rather the guy who's pulled the cork out of the bottle.

If all of this is ture, in order to cover it up, everyone named (and there's a lot of them) is going to have to lie. That includes the die hards but also the guys who it never sat easily with and did it because it was expected of them. And they'd all have to lie consistantly, because every journalist worth their salt will be picking at their stories looking for holes.

Also, if the feds are getting involved, some people might start getting nervous. It's one thing lying to a doping hearing, another lying under oath.

Secondly, what motivation would he have for lying now? If it's money, he's gone about it the wrong way. He deliberately did it before the statute of limitations expired, thus exposing himself to sanction as well as others. He could have written a book and done TV interviews and netted himself a nice deal but instead he emailed officials quietly. For all we know, it was them, not him, who leaked the story.

We'll see. It'll be a very interesting summer anyway.

petethedrummer

Pherekydes wrote: »

Gee, and there was I thinking Kimmage was the only clean TdF rider ever. In fact, I think Kimmage is the only clean cyclist ever. At least in his own mind.

you're misrepresenting kimmage. He has said in an article that he is prepared to believe lemond did it clean. Anyways everything kimmage has been saying about the sport is turning out to be true.

And someone said earlier that armstrong is the world's most tested athlete. I'd wager that eric zabel has been tested way more times, given his record of wins.

@robfowl: would any of the team sky doctors be the same people who didn't think to get rob hayles an exemption for his naturally high hematocrit? The famous team gb attention to detail was missing there.

petethedrummer

el tonto wrote: »

Pat McQuaid is going down in my estimation by the minute:

how is that even possible?
Sure he bent the rules to facilitate his holiness' return.

Some difference between pat's response to this and barry hearn's response to john higgins' shenanigans.

Chips Lovell

petethedrummer wrote: »

how is that even possible?
Sure he bent the rules to facilitate his holiness' return.

I never said it was very high in the first place.

petethedrummer

el tonto wrote: »

I never said it was very high in the first place.

all lance needs is to produce a video of landis having sex with cancer, since he loves it so much.

poochiem

From Off The Ball on Newstalk: "Lance Armstrong's former team-mate Floyd Landis has admitted doping throughout his cycling career, and claims Lance was also guilty of doping. We'll hear what Paul Kimmage has to say about this after 8 tonight. "

sorry if this was already posted

Chips Lovell

Armstrong press conference quotes here:

I would remind everybody that this is a man, that first of all…we have nothing to hide. We have nothing to run from. If anyone has any questions we'd be more than happy to answer them.

This is a man that has been (under) oath several times…this is somebody that wrote a book, under a different premise….the story changes…we’re a little confused.

They’re not even worth getting into. I think his story speaks for itself.

The timeline is off…ultimately all of the other emails to myself will come out

Why are you sending emails to other people's sponsors? …that has nothing to do with your conscience.

Floyd lost his credibility a long time ago.

Some of it’s off. The timing, the dates, the people are off.

It speaks volumes to his mental state.

The timing of the race is obvious (in releasing it now).

These emails have been out there for quite some time.

Legal action takes time, energy. It takes a lot of money…I have sued a few people in my day.

(The accusations are) definitely juicy and salacious.

At the end of the day, bike fans…they’ll know the truth.

bbosco

el tonto wrote: »

At the end of the day, bike fans…they’ll know the truth.

<puke>

Chips Lovell

Vaughters avoids the question entirely:

Asked what the team’s next steps would be Vaughters said: “What were going to do is simply move forward in making sure that sport in general and this team is clean and real. We’re simply absolutely committed to the future of cycling and what we’re doing right here and right now. That’s been our line since the beginning.”

Vaughters was also quick to add that the team would not pull Zabriskie from the race and that he himself had expressed no desire to leave. “No, absolutely not. He can win this race and do it clean. He can win this race with clear conscience and an open heart and I think he will.

“My conversation with Dave was very simple. I just said to him you can and will win this race clean and we’ll support you in that mission. He’s a private person but he seems very resolved to continue the race and to win.”

Nobody's asking if Dave is riding clean today. It's what happened back then that's the issue.

Diarmuid

On Matt Cooper now!
Kimmage as a guest

Chips Lovell

BMC has just issued a statement, along with one from Hincapie. Hincapie's one is odd:

anta Rosa, California, 2010-05-20

Statement From The BMC Racing Team

Statement from Jim Ochowicz, BMC Racing Team President:

"The BMC Racing Team is aware of the allegations leveled against some of its management team and one of its riders, U.S. national champion George Hincapie. These allegations are not true, absolutely unfounded and unproven. This is disappointing to anyone who works in the sport or is a fan of the sport."

Statement from George Hincapie, U.S. national champion:

"I have been a professional on the circuit for 17 years – which is one of the longest careers in the peloton. During that time, I have earned the respect of my peers and a reputation for working hard, honestly and honorably. I'm really disappointed to hear these accusations."

aidanbike

Pat McQ
"These guys coming out now with things like this from the past is only damaging the sport. If they've any love for the sport they wouldn't do it"

Doesnt he realise Lance, Bruyneel etc are still in the show, Showing his true colors now.
Seems a bit like Tiger to golf : Lance drags in a lot of $, so must be appeased at almost any cost. Pat says it is now a different day, but thats pretty thin, just this last month Pelizotti etc caught for doping.

He says Landis should not say anything until there was a full investigation yet he can instantly proclaim Landis a complete liar. Too men with agendas i think.

Good day for all true cycling fans, alas the machinery of cycling is so often infused with those who have chosen the rough road.

Vaughter with his "clean team" which may well be, yet he cant tell the truth on his past.
Sean Kelly and Eurosport commentry. Harmon wont address the fact he cocomentates with a convicted doper. And Kelly stays stum as usual.
All the ex dopers in DS seats and team leadership.

Read what Hushovd said about being embaressed about who was leading the Giro.
Even many pros see how bad the sport looks.

It seems often one needs to be a monumental hypocrite to keep good standing in procycling. How many riders have told the truth and are ostracised?

I hope the cheaters go away soon, but i have no confidence with the leadership present.
Valverde is still riding, enough said.

I think we should all try to enjoy cycling for what it is and stop hero worshipping some guy who can ride a bike fast.
Its embaressing, all the people who turned out for the phenoix park ride last year with Lance. And unfortunately many people still do not care and still think they are heroes.

And on a positive note, much credit to anyone in the pro peloton who has chosen to ride clean. We need to celebrate them much more, not just the "winners".

Funkyzeit

McQuaid on Sport at 7 now.

Junior

Landis admits it wasn't him that leaked the emails

Junior

Ha Ha ! From todays race stateside, I wonder how this is going to affect the story ..

johanbruyneel Sorry to report there was a huge crash, with Chechu and Lance involved. Lance had to abandon and is going to the hospital for Xrays.

Fredo

Off topic but news from the Tour of California:

Lance Arstrong out, massive crash soon after the start...

coincidence or not

Chips Lovell

Funny coincidence alright.

Hermy

aidanbike wrote: »

Pat McQ
"These guys coming out now with things like this from the past is only damaging the sport. If they've any love for the sport they wouldn't do it"

How very Irish of you Pat.
Shame on you.:mad:

Diarmuid

Popular man today

poochiem

Hermy wrote: »

How very Irish of you Pat.
Shame on you.:mad:

...he could be an Archbishop with that kind of thinking

ednwireland

Fredo wrote: »

Off topic but news from the Tour of California:

Lance Arstrong out, massive crash soon after the start...

coincidence or not

off to hospital for x-rays,coveniently out of le tour ?

TinyExplosions

ednwireland wrote: »

off to hospital for x-rays,coveniently out of le tour ?

A convenient place to get a blood transfusion too....