Customs seize car after six-hour stand-off

Anan1

DonJose wrote: »

I'd gladly pay an extra 10 cent a litre on fuel of VRT was abolished, we need a system like in the UK.

I'd say a lot of people would agree with you. Go lobby your TD/stand for election yourself, let's find out.;)

Matt Simis

Gophur wrote: »

How about sticking to what actually happened, what actually is the law and not drift off into some hypothetical tax discussion?

Because when looking at "what actually happened" without the colour of history (our history at that) allows the simplistic and frankly sheepish comments like "its the law, end of discussion". The comparison to the Window tax is valid as it was an unpopular tax, enforced heavily and plenty of idiots followed it, but some didnt. Ironically, unlike the Window Tax, Vehicle Registration Tax is in a manner more unfair, it penalises a subset of our society to pay for everything, if we need a replacement tax, it should be rolled into something everyone pays, like VAT.

Anyhow, its been indirectly answered that once its a "Law" most of you would indeed, "just do it", so Window Tax etc are entirely on the cards. According to Wikipedia its being considered as a Green Tax, so you guys may get your wish to comply with illogical and unfair laws sooner than you think! :rolleyes:

Gophur wrote: »

VRT is an elective tax, nobody is forced to pay it, nobody is forced to import a used car, or buy a new car.
We all know the rules.

Hi there, welcome to Ireland. I invite you to my town, where there are no buses, taxies, or trains. How do you propose I get to work, where I pay nearly half my salary in tax to support the people who are meant to be implementing these services?
The VRT I paid went "somewhere" else, but it isnt helping me or my community in any useful manner.
Given the realities of Ireland, owning a car is frankly not a choice and car owners (given they are plenty and we as a people compliant and short sighted) are burdened with supporting everyone else for no good reason other than, its the law.


PS: Even buying a Used Irish car, part of the pricing structure includes VRT, once it existed at the start of the chain, its rather obviously is always a component of the price.

Yawns

DonJose wrote: »

I'd gladly pay an extra 10 cent a litre on fuel of VRT was abolished, we need a system like in the UK.

Well I for one wouldn't and judging my the many posts complaining about petrol prices now I am not alone. I could have went north and bought my car, but I looked at wha tI would have to pay in VRT and decided against it and went with a used car down south.

I don't want to pay any more taxes for those that want to have a foreign car without the consequences. You want to buy a foreign reg car, go ahead and do so. The releant charges for VRT is readily available to you before you buy. I have no sympathy for people who don't pay VRT. It's not like it is an overnight charge that they lumped on last week.
VRT has been around long enough that there is no excuse not to pay it. People who don't pay it are just money hungry and generally if asked why the answer is "I don't wanna give my money to the goverment".

DonJose

Yawns wrote: »

I could have went north and bought my car, but I looked at wha tI would have to pay in VRT and decided against it and went with a used car down south.

Gophur wrote: »

VRT is an elective tax, nobody is forced to pay it, nobody is forced to import a used car, or buy a new car.

Well the VRT will be factored into the price of a second hand car, there is no way of avoiding it.

Gophur

DonJose wrote: »

Well the VRT will be factored into the price of a second hand car, there is no way of avoiding it.

There are many cars for sale in ROI, similarly priced to UK equivalents. For these, one can say the VRT element has disappeared.

It's what leaves your pocket that counts, not what it is called.

VRT is a tax, paid once. The market determines what the car is worth, after that.

JHMEG

Matt Simis wrote: »

Before we go off patting ourselves on the back for paying our VRT, lets just consider what a PR disaster and generally woeful handling of the situation this was.

PR disaster, yes, but I suspect that could easily be turned (cost of car, make and model).

Unfortunately the country is in a hole. Taxes are not optional, in fact we need to be paying a lot more than we currently are.

Looking at it county by county, Donegal has the highest rate of unemployment, registering a whopping 12.9% during the boom! (2006). The irony is not lost on me that they major objections to paying tax are originating from the county that's benefitting the most from central government. Next time someone from Donegal moans about Dublin politicians keeping everything for themselves, just remember Dublin pays your dole!

Dymo

Lando Griffin wrote: »

Correction, it was HONDA VRT

Registration : JJZ7940
Make: LEXUS
Model : RX300
Description : SE AUTO
Fuel Type : Petrol

Maybe someone can work out the VRT cost by the numberplate to get some perspective on the matter.

Mr Benevolent

JHMEG wrote: »

Unfortunately the country is in a hole. Taxes are not optional, in fact we need to be paying a lot more than we currently are.

True, we pay feck all tax and wonder why we get feck all services.

alias no.9

mullingar wrote: »

And from http://www.inishowennews.com/06VRTStandOff0477.htm She said she had a cheque for €1,740 for VRT. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

I wonder what year the Lexus RX is? (Assumption its an RX)

Looks fairly new so VRT would be many thousands

Perhaps it's an RX Hybrid, maybe €1,740 was all that was due after rebates etc... If so, she's an even bigger clown than I first thought.

Gophur

A 2003 RX300 would cost €3k, approx, in VRT.

JHMEG

Video here:

http://www.u.tv/UTVMediaPlayer/Default.aspx?vidid=130405&chapid=106227&arti_id=f9f35891-5926-4563-b043-adbb666ac639

Indeed a Lexus.

She could have bought something a little less top of the range and paid the VRT.

RX300 badge, not the hybrid. (And anyway a 7 year old hybrid is too old to qualify for VRT reductions)

Yawns

Speaking of taxes. If she has no VRT can we assume she has no RoI road tax either? I skipped a few pages so dunno if it was answered?

This lady strikes me as a typical idiot.

Bought a cheaper car, refuses to pay tax on it.
Can't afford it but apparently has a cheque coverign the VRT that she 'forgot' to post. Ah sure she can 'forget' to pay road tax and insurance while she's at it. 'Forget' to pay for the petrol at the pump too why not. After all your basically paying taxes there too.

furtzy

Yawns wrote: »

Speaking of taxes. If she has no VRT can we assume she has no RoI road tax either? I skipped a few pages so dunno if it was answered?

This lady strikes me as a typical idiot.

Bought a cheaper car, refuses to pay tax on it.
Can't afford it but apparently has a cheque coverign the VRT that she 'forgot' to post. Ah sure she can 'forget' to pay road tax and insurance while she's at it. 'Forget' to pay for the petrol at the pump too why not. After all your basically paying taxes there too.

Yeah she'll have to fork out the €1300 or so motor tax a year now as well

JHMEG

furtzy wrote: »

Yeah she'll have to fork out the €1300 or so motor tax a year now as well

I suspect the permanent evasion of that was all part of the plan.

She never had any intention of paying VRT or motor tax.

"There is a high level of non-compliance in this area" -- Sean Kelleher, Revenue Commissioners.

Cookie_Monster

Vegeta wrote: »

How many people in our society want to pay VRT?

how many actually want to pay tax full stop?

If you want to be able to avail of services like water, roads, hospitals, schools etc it has to be paid for whether you like it or not

Lando Griffin

Summoned witnesses who fail to appear in court face a fine for contempt and/or up to one month in prison.

What will happen here now she missed the court case?

Yawns

I'd sooner they abolished emergency room charges in hospitals and hiked the petrol up to make up the difference than to abolish the VRT and hike it up.

Matt Simis

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

how many actually want to pay tax full stop?

If you want to be able to avail of services like water, roads, hospitals, schools etc it has to be paid for whether you like it or not

Well if you really want to go down that route! Hmm, I have private water supply, had to build the well myself (wasnt eliglbe for government grant), the locals around me patch the roads ourselves (council no mans land), pay for private healthcare (rather not have to wait for goverment hospital beds in the hallway thanks), dont like the idea of sending my kids to State Church run schools so lets say private there too. Can I have my tax back?


Dont delude yourself that we are like Sweden or Germany and our high taxes pay for an awesome infrastructure and general support system. We are barely 1st world levels in many areas.

murraymarmalade

the link was posted already spud

Cookie_Monster

Matt Simis wrote: »

Hi there, welcome to Ireland. I invite you to my town, where there are no buses, taxies, or trains. How do you propose I get to work, where I pay nearly half my salary in tax to support the people who are meant to be implementing these services?
The VRT I paid went "somewhere" else, but it isnt helping me or my community in any useful manner.
Given the realities of Ireland, owning a car is frankly not a choice and car owners (given they are plenty and we as a people compliant and short sighted) are burdened with supporting everyone else for no good reason other than, its the law.


PS: Even buying a Used Irish car, part of the pricing structure includes VRT, once it existed at the start of the chain, its rather obviously is always a component of the price.

boo hoo.

you chose to live there, you chose to work somewhere not within a decent walking/cycling distance of you home, you chose to buy a car. If VRT is such a big deal for you buy an old 1k car and don't worry about it.

Yawns

Lando Griffin wrote: »

Summoned witnesses who fail to appear in court face a fine for contempt and/or up to one month in prison.

What will happen here now she missed the court case?

Her own tough ****, she shouldn't have been driving illieagally. No VRT or Tax she shouldn't have had the car on the road. She could have walked, bus, taxi, lift from a friend. I'd feel sorrier for the friend who had to go to court. The driver can have the book thrown at her for all I care.

Matt Simis

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

boo hoo.

you chose to live there, you chose to work somewhere not within a decent walking/cycling distance of you home, you chose to buy a car. If VRT is such a big deal for you buy an old 1k car and don't worry about it.

So I should move (by foot) with the jobs eh? What a well thought out answer !:eek:
The lack of public transport and sub-par infastruture isnt "my problem", its virtually everywhere unless we all cram into Dublin City centre. Please stop being so... wilfully ignorant.

Yawns

For all those who say that when a person sells it on they include the price of a VRT, they may not always sell it. A lil research whould show the real value of the car , that's what dictates the selling price. 5 years down the line if I sold a car that I had paid 3k VRT on, do you think the market price would allow me to sell it?

Someone doing a quick look would see what the real value of the car is and offer that.

Anan1

Matt Simis wrote: »

dont like the idea of sending my kids to State Church run schools so lets say private there too. Can I have my tax back?

I think we both know that private schools are state-aided too.;)

danbohan

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

how many actually want to pay tax full stop?

If you want to be able to avail of services like water, roads, hospitals, schools etc it has to be paid for whether you like it or not

most people in dublin have great hesitation about paying for their water , and bin charges , its similar to the vrt disease in donegal

mullingar

From the UTV video:

http://www.u.tv/UTVMediaPlayer/Default.aspx?vidid=130405&chapid=106227&arti_id=f9f35891-5926-4563-b043-adbb666ac639


They are already paying big money for road tax on the Toyota Soarer (with a Lexus badge) in the background

Yawns

the locals around me patch the roads ourselves (council no mans land)

I'd have more sympathy here. Start a campaign, You'd get more support than a group against vrt.

pay for private healthcare (rather not have to wait for goverment hospital beds in the hallway thanks)

Your choice, you choose a private healthcare you pay their fees.

dont like the idea of sending my kids to State Church run schools so lets say private there too.

Your choice, just like people choose to buy a foreign reg car. You choose a private school, you choose to pay their fees.

Yawns

mullingar wrote: »

From the UTV video:

http://www.u.tv/UTVMediaPlayer/Default.aspx?vidid=130405&chapid=106227&arti_id=f9f35891-5926-4563-b043-adbb666ac639


They are already paying big money for road tax on the Toyota Soarer (with a Lexus badge) in the background

Perhaps they should have taken that to the courthouse to give evidence

bad2dabone

I don't like VRT either but she knew she had to pay it. If you're buying a car from the UK you need to have the VRT cheque ready to go or else it WILL be seized, sooner or later. I've got even less sympathy for her since she bought a lexus, clearly she wanted to have her cake and eat it.

damoz

Tax evasion makes baby jesus cry.

And it hurts my pocket more. So i hope they throw the book at her and anyone else driving illegally in the Republic

Groinshot

Matt Simis wrote: »

Well if you really want to go down that route! Hmm, I have private water supply, had to build the well myself (wasnt eliglbe for government grant), the locals around me patch the roads ourselves (council no mans land), pay for private healthcare (rather not have to wait for goverment hospital beds in the hallway thanks), dont like the idea of sending my kids to State Church run schools so lets say private there too. Can I have my tax back?


Dont delude yourself that we are like Sweden or Germany and our high taxes pay for an awesome infrastructure and general support system. We are barely 1st world levels in many areas.

if YOU want to go down that route.
paying for private healthcare is optional, so is sending your children to private schools. its your choice as to whether you want to take advantage of these facilities. Do you think that because you claim to not use public healthcare, you should pay less than we do? Im a cyclist in dublin, and im pretty sure most taxes I pay aren't going towards anything that benefits me (no kids to send to school, dont have a car, have private healthcare) so should I, and everyone else in my situation, not have to pay as many taxes? where does the money come from then? Our high taxes are directly proportional to the high cost of living, and the high wages that are in our country, are they not?

Mena

Confab wrote: »

It's always the high-value cars that don't have VRT paid too. Saw a yellow plate R8 in Dublin on Wednesday :mad:

Because there's no way in hell someone with an R8 from NI or UK would ever, ever take a driving holiday to Dublin right?

Vegeta

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

how many actually want to pay tax full stop?

If you want to be able to avail of services like water, roads, hospitals, schools etc it has to be paid for whether you like it or not

Sigh :rolleyes:

I was not commenting on the necessity of taxation but Ana1's comment on social will.

dergside

If we take a more dispassionate look at this, setting aside the right's and wrong's of VRT for a moment, it goes something like this:

* the woman (or her family) bought a something (could have been anything, a house, a holiday, etc) that they could not truly or legitimately afford.

*she (they) thought they could have something more than they had earned by cutting a corner with rules (laws) that have been in place for 25 years.

* she (they) is actively living beyond her means.

* multiply this case many hundred's of thousands (or even millions) of times and the dire straits that the country is in, sinking under the weight of public and private debt suddenly makes sense. People, fuelled by greed, have made high risk choices.

* now its suddenly someone else's problem or fault now that she's been caught out.

* she is living in denial - as are many more in this country.

* Whether its this woman and her VRT or Seanie from the bank with reckless lending, or anyone else, the issue is the same, just so happened that Seanie had access to bigger stakes.

* Lets be clear, this woman is not taking a stand against VRT. She is simply trying to evade tax. Retrospectively others have tried to beatify her evasion as a stand against the machine.

* Nonsense.

Matt Simis

Groinshot wrote: »

if YOU want to go down that route.
paying for private healthcare is optional, so is sending your children to private schools. its your choice as to whether you want to take advantage of these facilities. Do you think that because you claim to not use public healthcare, you should pay less than we do? Im a cyclist in dublin, and im pretty sure most taxes I pay aren't going towards anything that benefits me (no kids to send to school, dont have a car, have private healthcare) so should I, and everyone else in my situation, not have to pay as many taxes? where does the money come from then? Our high taxes are directly proportional to the high cost of living, and the high wages that are in our country, are they not?

How utterly hypocritical considering a cyclist utilises a mode of transport that robs the community of Fuel Duty/Taxes, the state coffers of VRT, local council of Motor Tax and generally a chunk of VAT all round. You contribute far less than someone with a large petrol guzzling car, you are having your cake and eating it compared to, for example, someone so villainous to be a car driver living in the country side. Im gobsmacked you dont see this.

My two "beefs" with this thread are:
- Im on for fair taxation, not taxation on a few, with no consideration to their income or burden (or lack of) on society. I wholeheartedly do think if you dont make use of social schemes then you shouldnt pay as much for them (a portion is ok to keep them aloat). Is this concept so bizarre? A tiered Socal welfare system, like a Credit Union/ Community approach to Social care.
- I dont believe just because something is a law (some lines on paper approved by a governing body) than I should automatically sign up to it "or leave". I just cannot understand that attitude on any level.

robbie99

Lando Griffin wrote: »

This woman is no stranger to strange events.


Santa's Sleigh seen over Greencastle?
The Inish Times has reported the sighting of a 'glowing ball of fire' in the sky over Greencastle on Christmas Night. Margaret Davern was travelling with three children when they saw an orange ball of light in the sky above them.
'I looked up and it seemed to be travelling down towards us. I tried to brake but the roads were really slippy so I pulled in. We jumped out of the car and it started to come down towards us. It was about the height of the buildings and really difficult to explain. It was really big and bright, slightly bigger than a football and there was what seemed to be a glowing light or fire in the middle, like there was something inside it. I took a picture of it and it started going back up again towards the sky, in the direction of Shroove. It got smaller and smaller until it was just a tiny light like a wee star. It was the strangest thing I’ve ever seen.'
Did you see the unidentified object? If so, contact the Inish Times at 0749341055 or email The Inish Times

http://www.dun-na-ngall.com/nw109.html

That would be a Chinese lantern she saw.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XV7nQU7iaCg

smash

This thread was only going to go one direction from the start... maybe someone should ban VRT threads!

Cookie_Monster

Matt Simis wrote: »

How utterly hypocritical considering a cyclist utilises a mode of transport that robs the community of Fuel Duty/Taxes, the state coffers of VRT and VAT all round. You contribute far less than someone with a large petrol guzzling car, you are having your cake and eating it compared to the car driver living in the country side. Im gobsmacked you dont see this.

Wow, just wow.

Never mind the multiple social, health, environmental and congestion reducing benefits that will vastly outweigh a bit more income from a car driver.

Mr. Presentable

Matt Simis wrote: »

You contribute far less than someone with a large petrol guzzling car,

Yup. Unless the big gas-guzzling car is in Donegal.

There is a very serious issue being addressed in Inishowen. I saw the incident in the Supervalu car park, and there were more than a few other yellow reg'ed cars there. I'd guess there might be 1 in 10 cars in the town of Buncrana that are under five years old have yellow plates on.

Anan1

steve06 wrote: »

This thread was only going to go one direction from the start... maybe someone should ban VRT threads!

As long as everyone can keep it civil it's actually a pretty interesting discussion.:)

mullingar

I just checked the VRT value of this Lexus, assuming its a 06 model as I cant find the true year (That shape was around 04-08)

€ 8,000 :eek::eek:

I dont think her cheque of €1,740 would be accepted!!

Matt Simis

dergside wrote: »

* Lets be clear, this woman is not taking a stand against VRT. She is simply trying to evade tax. Retrospectively others have tried to beatify her evasion as a stand against the machine.

Completely true, as is:

* Lets be clear, Rosa Parks was not taking a stand against Civil Liberty Injustice. She was simply trying to get home. Retrospectively others have beatified her disregard for the City Code as a stand for Civil Rights.

Yes, her words, one act of defiance was later used to define a general sentiment and a boycot against an unjust law.

Clearly, high horsers, Im being a bit tongue in cheek here, VRT and Segregation are not on par, but dont be so fast to dismiss all acts of Law breaking that didnt declare themselves as pariahs from the start.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Wow, just wow.

Never mind the multiple social, health, environmental and congestion reducing benefits that will vastly outweigh a bit more income from a car driver.

We are talking about monetary contribution (a credit) and usage of Social schemes (a debit). Unless you can provide some numbers, my statement is completely correct is it not? There is no way a non-car owning cyclist is contributing as much to Health Care, Roads, Civil Servant Salaries, the Dole etc as a car driver, all else being equal. If we all switched to bikes tomorrow, there would be a BRT on your personal cycling license and 6 hour stand offs on bicycles would be the issue. I mean, thats not like a revelation to you is it?

ardmacha

Im on for fair taxation, not taxation on a few, with no consideration to their income or burden

VRT, for all its failings, is based on your ability to spend. You can choose to pay a lot for a new Merc or relatively little for a used Kia. What you cannot reasonably do is buy a relatively expensive car and then say you cannot afford the VRT.

I dont believe just because something is a law (some lines on paper approved by a governing body) than I should automatically sign up to it "or leave". I just cannot understand that attitude on any level.

This is a democracy. There have been half a dozen elections since VRT was introduced and it hasn't been an issue. You can campaign for it to be replaced with some other tax. Good luck with that at a time when other new taxes will have to introduced anyway as the State only raises 70% of its expenditure.

CONM

mullingar wrote: »

I just checked the VRT value of this Lexus, assuming its a 06 model as I cant find the true year (That shape was around 04-08)

€ 8,000 :eek::eek:

I dont think her cheque of €1,740 would be accepted!!

Thats the 98-03 model

Gophur

Rosa Parks, in a VRT thread?

MattSimms, you are really going to have to get some better analogies!

Matt Simis

Gophur wrote: »

Rosa Parks, in a VRT thread?

MattSimms, you are really going to have to get some better analogies!

Hey there!

Mattsimis already said wrote:

Clearly, high horsers, Im being a bit tongue in cheek here, VRT and Segregation are not on par, but dont be so fast to dismiss all acts of Law breaking that didnt declare themselves as pariahs from the start.

mullingar

CONM wrote: »

Thats the 98-03 model

You are right I stand corrected!

keithclancy

Groinshot wrote: »

if YOU want to go down that route.
paying for private healthcare is optional, so is sending your children to private schools. its your choice as to whether you want to take advantage of these facilities. Do you think that because you claim to not use public healthcare, you should pay less than we do? Im a cyclist in dublin, and im pretty sure most taxes I pay aren't going towards anything that benefits me (no kids to send to school, dont have a car, have private healthcare) so should I, and everyone else in my situation, not have to pay as many taxes? where does the money come from then? Our high taxes are directly proportional to the high cost of living, and the high wages that are in our country, are they not?

Like the Road your Cycling on, the facilities and infrastructure for your house, the Gardai, the Emergency Services (Fire Brigade etc)

The list goes on.

Henry Ford III

Back on topic

It's hard to feel any sympathy for the lady. Like it or not she knew she was liable and tried to dodge it.

I'd love to have cheaper and better cars, but the reality is I cannot. What makes her any different?

Zubeneschamali

Matt Simis wrote: »

- I dont believe just because something is a law (some lines on paper approved by a governing body) than I should automatically sign up to it "or leave".

I don't believe that either.

However, when you're caught by the cops/customs/Revenue men, I hope you can make a better case for your actions being a principled protest than this tax-doging Lexus-driving gombeen can.