Customs seize car after six-hour stand-off

murraymarmalade

Stekelly wrote: »

Well that would be her own fault again. Your supposed to get it (minus the permenant export section) when you buy the car.

haha....yeah! your supposed to.
i didnt get my log book at the time when i purchased a car in the nrth.

Guy:Incognito

murraymarmalade wrote: »

haha....yeah! your supposed to.
i didnt get my log book at the time when i purchased a car in the nrth.

Well then you went about it wrong. I got the full V5 minus the permenant export section when I bought my car in the UK.

The fact that you didnt is not the fault of the government here, it's yours.

Would you buy a car here that didnt have a VLC?

murraymarmalade

Stekelly wrote: »

Well then you went about it wrong. I got the full V5 minus the permenant export section when I bought my car in the UK.

The fact that you didnt is not the fault of the government here, it's yours.

Would you buy a car here that didnt have a VLC?

woah,woah,woah kelly!

i didnt get the log book at the time because the guy misplaced it/lost it.
he sent away for a copy and sent it on to me. simples.

these kind of things happen you know. now peace out:)

Anan1

murraymarmalade wrote: »

woah,woah,woah kelly!

i didnt get the log book at the time because the guy misplaced it/lost it.
he sent away for a copy and sent it on to me. simples.

these kind of things happen you know. now peace out:)

You were lucky. There's no way i'd buy a UK car without the V5. Quite apart from needing it to register the car here, how can one tell without it that the car even belongs to the seller? Also, the serial number and issue date are necessary to run the HPI check.

Tea 1000

Stinicker wrote: »

The customs are scumbags and VRT is an immoral tax contrary to the ethos of the free market European Union. In Ireland we have no public transport so driving is a basic freedom and to curb this freedom with excessive taxation is impinging upon our human rights.

It is okay to pay taxation to the central government if you get something back from the government but in this country we have Scandinavian levels of taxation with 3rd world services and infrastructure.

I would have no problem paying taxation if we got proper tarmacadam surfaced roads and infrastrucuture to match accordingly however in Ireland all we have is bailouts for banks and friends of Fianna Fail.

If the customs and guards came onto my property to steal my car I would take any necessary actions to defend my property and if they attempted to lift a car of mine I would open fire on them first with a warning shot and if they continued I would warn them to back down or I would shoot to kill, if the were stupid enough to persist I would open fire against the taxcollectors of this illegal undemocratic government.

I imported a car a few years ago and paid my VRT then as it was too expensive being under a €1,000 but would not pay anything more expensive. The citizens of Ireland are in charge of this country and if guards and tax collectors try to steal my property or infringe my rights then they would get the full rigours of my wrath.

Then again for that woman I have no real pity for her because if she can afford the lexus (and its alcoholic fuel habit) then she should have been able to pay the tax.

Ah now. What a load of kak. You're a tough man there, hiding behind the internet, but in reality I reckon you wouldn't even throw your keyboard at them! Shoot to kill? Customs scumbags?
Customs are doing their jobs. If you don't like what they're doing, then start a protest. All people driving NI or UK reg cars who object strongly to VRT should drive up outside Dail Eireann and park them causing an obstruction, then get out and chain them all together so a truck can't lift them and start your protest.
I reckon you're playing a bit too much GTA to be honest, thinking you can pick off Guards, Customs... the lot from the window of your house!

Regarding the log book, you are supposed to tell customs that you're waiting on it and they'll give you a letter stating that you have applied for VRT and are waiting on the logbook to clear your car. You can produce that letter to any officer who enquires.

murraymarmalade

Anan1 wrote: »

You were lucky. There's no way i'd buy a UK car without the V5. Quite apart from needing it to register the car here, how can one tell without it that the car even belongs to the seller? Also, the serial number and issue date are necessary to run the HPI check.

well he had about 20 cars parked on his property for sale,that aside i was put in contact with this guy through someone i knew,so i knew it was all legit.

Drake66

Hopefully the hundreds of other northern irish reg SUV's driving on our roads and their tax evading owners will be equally dealt with.

Anan1

murraymarmalade wrote: »

well he had about 20 cars parked on his property for sale,that aside i was put in contact with this guy through someone i knew,so i knew it was all legit.

You're a lot more easily convinced than I am.;)

alo1587

Vrt prices are extortionate,they're just too high,if they were lower, people would (probably) pay them.Simple.

murraymarmalade

Drake66 wrote: »

Hopefully the hundreds of other northern irish reg SUV's driving on our roads and their tax evading owners will be equally dealt with.

small chance of that happening though,few resources my man.

thankfully may i add.

murraymarmalade

Anan1 wrote: »

You're a lot more easily convinced than I am.;)

im a trusting kinda guy!

seriously though my contact and the seller do a lot of trade between them so i new it was kosher.

Anan1

alo1587 wrote: »

Vrt prices are extortionate,they're just too high,if they were lower, people would (probably) pay them.Simple.

You choose how much VRT falls due when you choose which car to import. Simple.;)

alo1587

Anan1 wrote: »

You choose how much VRT falls due when you choose which car to import. Simple.;)

True but why not cut the vrt rates to 5 or 10 percent,they're just too high.30k car at 36% is over 10k.Crazy money.

ocokev

Anan1 wrote: »

You choose how much VRT falls due when you choose which car to import. Simple.;)

And what extras are on the car eg alloys leather seats etc

Anan1

murraymarmalade wrote: »

im a trusting kinda guy!

seriously though my contact and the seller do a lot of trade between them so i new it was kosher.

Honestly, it doesn't matter. ALWAYS do all the checks when buying a car, especially a UK import. You wouldn't believe how many people post here complaining that their new purchase is clocked/damaged repaired/stolen/hasn't been serviced/finance owing etc. All of them could have been saved had they just checked everything rather than simply trusting someone else.

Anan1

alo1587 wrote: »

True but why not cut the vrt rates to 5 or 10 percent,they're just too high.30k car at 36% is over 10k.Crazy money.

The 36% is discretionary, you can better than half that by buying a more fuel-efficient car.

It BeeMee

Stinicker wrote: »

In Ireland we have no public transport so driving is a basic freedom and to curb this freedom with excessive taxation is impinging upon our human rights.

No, driving is a PRIVILEGE, not a right or freedom. There's nothing stopping you from hopping on a bicycle or, heaven forbid, walking from A to B.

Stinicker wrote: »

If the customs and guards came onto my property to steal my car I would take any necessary actions to defend my property and if they attempted to lift a car of mine I would open fire on them first with a warning shot and if they continued I would warn them to back down or I would shoot to kill, if the were stupid enough to persist I would open fire against the taxcollectors of this illegal undemocratic government.

Do you have a license for that gun you'll use?
Does that license allow you to shoot at other human beings?
Do you think would the guards be right to confiscate that gun off you if/when you do shoot at somebody?

The same way with the car you're protecting. You're perfectly entitled to buy it wherever you like, import it from whenever you like, park it in your garage to admire whenever you like.

But the law says you are not entitled to use it on a publc road without registering it.

So in the case of both the car and the gun, while you are entitled to own them both, you are not entitled to use them in an illegal way.

Thanks for providing the perfect analogy

Drake66

murraymarmalade wrote: »

small chance of that happening though,few resources my man.

thankfully may i add.

Well they are going to have to put the resources into it won't they. These people need to understand that tax evasion is illegal and ordinary law abiding citizens are fed up having to subsidise the crimes of others.

alo1587

Anan1 wrote: »

The 36% is discretionary, you can better than half that by buying a more fuel-efficient car.

Still 16% at that rate.Too high imo.

MagicSean

Stinicker wrote: »

The customs are scumbags and VRT is an immoral tax contrary to the ethos of the free market European Union. In Ireland we have no public transport so driving is a basic freedom and to curb this freedom with excessive taxation is impinging upon our human rights.

It is okay to pay taxation to the central government if you get something back from the government but in this country we have Scandinavian levels of taxation with 3rd world services and infrastructure.

I would have no problem paying taxation if we got proper tarmacadam surfaced roads and infrastrucuture to match accordingly however in Ireland all we have is bailouts for banks and friends of Fianna Fail.

If the customs and guards came onto my property to steal my car I would take any necessary actions to defend my property and if they attempted to lift a car of mine I would open fire on them first with a warning shot and if they continued I would warn them to back down or I would shoot to kill, if the were stupid enough to persist I would open fire against the taxcollectors of this illegal undemocratic government.

I imported a car a few years ago and paid my VRT then as it was too expensive being under a €1,000 but would not pay anything more expensive. The citizens of Ireland are in charge of this country and if guards and tax collectors try to steal my property or infringe my rights then they would get the full rigours of my wrath.

Then again for that woman I have no real pity for her because if she can afford the lexus (and its alcoholic fuel habit) then she should have been able to pay the tax.

An internet strongman. Send those sentiments to the department of justice if you are so tough. We can all look forward to the show.

It BeeMee

ocokev wrote: »

And what extras are on the car eg alloys leather seats etc

Those things are luxuries, though, not necessities.
It's hard to argue against the government taxing luxuries at a rate they see fit, like they do with alcohol and cigarettes.

EPM

alo1587 wrote: »

Still 16% at that rate.Too high imo.

Cutting it will leave a lot of people in negative equity with the resulting loss in residuals. Phased year by year if anything was ever going to be done about it is the only way to go to minimize the shock to the market.

Getting rid of it would be great - but doing it overnight is dreamer talk...

Anan1

alo1587 wrote: »

Still 16% at that rate.Too high imo.

So buy a cheaper car.

Lobster

Stekelly wrote: »

The people of Donegal and the other border counties will definately agree to it. In fact, the more thats added to fuel and the less other taxes they pay the better, they will just go across the border and buy fuel.



They're not stupid enough to take another county off us to pour money in to.:)

I don't agree. Like most people in Donegal with uk cars, I have paid my VRT (It is the law afterall) and do not want to see tax added to fuel etc. Even if it were, with the roads we have and the distance involved, I wouldn't "just go across the border and buy fuel."

Enough with the Donegal bashing

steph1

I'm laughing at the fact that it took 16 officers plus 8 gardai to seize a car.:rolleyes:

slimjimmc

steph1 wrote: »

I'm laughing at the fact that it took 16 officers plus 8 gardai to seize a car.:rolleyes:

I suspect they were expecting to have to take on her, her family and half the townland, such are anti-VRT feelings running in Doengal

Xios

Stinicker wrote: »

The customs are scumbags and VRT is an immoral tax contrary to the ethos of the free market European Union. In Ireland we have no public transport so driving is a basic freedom and to curb this freedom with excessive taxation is impinging upon our human rights.

It is okay to pay taxation to the central government if you get something back from the government but in this country we have Scandinavian levels of taxation with 3rd world services and infrastructure.

I would have no problem paying taxation if we got proper tarmacadam surfaced roads and infrastrucuture to match accordingly however in Ireland all we have is bailouts for banks and friends of Fianna Fail.

If the customs and guards came onto my property to steal my car I would take any necessary actions to defend my property and if they attempted to lift a car of mine I would open fire on them first with a warning shot and if they continued I would warn them to back down or I would shoot to kill, if the were stupid enough to persist I would open fire against the taxcollectors of this illegal undemocratic government.

I imported a car a few years ago and paid my VRT then as it was too expensive being under a €1,000 but would not pay anything more expensive. The citizens of Ireland are in charge of this country and if guards and tax collectors try to steal my property or infringe my rights then they would get the full rigours of my wrath.

Then again for that woman I have no real pity for her because if she can afford the lexus (and its alcoholic fuel habit) then she should have been able to pay the tax.

You're so full of sh1t

Groinshot

keithclancy wrote: »

Like the Road your Cycling on, the facilities and infrastructure for your house, the Gardai, the Emergency Services (Fire Brigade etc)

The list goes on.

I said pay less taxes. not no taxes, less taxes. We pay for the emergency services every time we use them no? our optional health insurance pays for ambulance charges, you pay 100 quid if you ring the fire brigade. Sure it doesnt pay all their wages, but thats why we pay taxes, for that and to provide the services in the first place.

Matt Simis wrote: »

How utterly hypocritical considering a cyclist utilises a mode of transport that robs the community of Fuel Duty/Taxes, the state coffers of VRT, local council of Motor Tax and generally a chunk of VAT all round. You contribute far less than someone with a large petrol guzzling car, you are having your cake and eating it compared to, for example, someone so villainous to be a car driver living in the country side. Im gobsmacked you dont see this.

My two "beefs" with this thread are:
- Im on for fair taxation, not taxation on a few, with no consideration to their income or burden (or lack of) on society. I wholeheartedly do think if you dont make use of social schemes then you shouldnt pay as much for them (a portion is ok to keep them aloat). Is this concept so bizarre? A tiered Socal welfare system, like a Credit Union/ Community approach to Social care.
- I dont believe just because something is a law (some lines on paper approved by a governing body) than I should automatically sign up to it "or leave". I just cannot understand that attitude on any level.

I paid my taxes when I bought my bike, I pay my VAT on the new tires that I buy, the new tubes etc, all the repairs I have to get on my bike. All caused by the state of the roads- hardly the fault of a cyclist that theres potholes, my bike isnt THAT heavy. I live in Dublin city, not the country so its handier for me to cycle, I appreciate that people live in the country, and that they have to drive, but they dont have to buy their car new or from the north and pay the VRT. The point here is that she bought a car up north, and drove it without paying the tax she knew she couldnt pay. If she knew she couldn't afford it, why did she buy the car? I can't afford a lovely new bike that I want, so I dont go in and try to pay for it tax-free(I know its different im just saying.) I agree the system is flawed, and that there should be (more of) a tiered tax system (income tax is tiered slightly is it not?) but your never gonna please everyone.

It was her decision to buy the car, and not to pay the tax, she deserved it, no questions really is there?

Anan1

Xios wrote: »

You're so full of sh1t

Surely you can come up with a better argument than that. If you really can't then best not post at all.

Xios

Anan1 wrote: »

Surely you can come up with a better argument than that. If you really can't then best not post at all.

My apologies, i'm just being a troll, usually i'd take part in the topic and present my views, but i'd be just repeating what many people have said. But to be perfectly honest and fair, he totally is full of...


Actually, Let me present an analogy, purchasing a vehicle from the UK is a choice, there are many many cars in the south up for sale, if it's a case of just getting from A to B, then you're spoiled for choice. So seeking to purchase abroad is a privilage that comes at a cost (VRT)

Also, Anyone with a basic understanding of Economics, knows that buying your car abroad hurts the Irish Economy. Buying a car here at home for €4000, from a dealer, who pays tax, says €200 euro tax or some price. His wife then says, "hey you got some money, How bout that kitchen i keep nagging about"
So he pays for the kitchen, €3800 to pat the kitchen guy, who pays tax, - €300 and then he buys a car from another dealer for €3500 euro and the cycle goes on and on. Unless it's leaked out of the system, either through imports or being logged into a bank. Buying from the north, cuts that €4000 out of the economy, unless you go on to sell your car in the future, then it's in the loop again.

Can you guess what exam i had today?

smash

Xios wrote: »

Can you guess what exam i had today?

No, but i'd say you might have failed...

Xios wrote: »

Also, Anyone with a basic understanding of Economics, knows that buying your car abroad hurts the Irish Economy. Buying a car here at home for €4000, from a dealer, who pays tax, says €200 euro tax or some price. His wife then says, "hey you got some money, How bout that kitchen i keep nagging about"........

By bringing in a car from abroad and paying VRT on the €4,000 - the government would make more from the VRT than they would from the €200 tax you're saying the dealer would pay. Then the dealer would buy a slightly cheaper kitchen bla bla bla...

Remember there's a counter argument for every argument.

Drummerboy08

I hope the car gets crushed. Not only because she hasnt paid VRT, but because she looks quite annoying too.

Only too delighted for her.

Oh, and for those of you keyboard warriors here who are claiming VRT is illegal, and that you would kill any Customs officer etc etc etc, I suggest
you do some research on the topic. Because you clearly know nothing on the subject.

I hope to see much more of this kind of action from Customs and Gardai over the coming months.

Xios

steve06 wrote: »

No, but i'd say you might have failed...


By bringing in a car from abroad and paying VRT on the €4,000 - the government would make more from the VRT than they would from the €200 tax you're saying the dealer would pay. Then the dealer would buy a slightly cheaper kitchen bla bla bla...

Remember there's a counter argument for every argument.

Well, i was arguing that imports are leakage out of our economy, buying a used car here, keeps the money, and the car in the economy, whilst importing just brings in the car, but loses the money. VRT is, in a way combating this loss of potential taxation.

Stinicker

The problem I would have is for the customs and Gardai to come onto private property and steal your vehicle for not paying what is an immoral tax. Now hypothetically say for instance I import a used Veyron into Ireland from another EU country, how can anyone here condone the theft of a persons car because they have not paid a stupid tax.

I could have a car polished in my garage that I only ever look at or drive on the track and for the customs and excise to be allowed to impound it is a disgrace and stealing whether by a heroin junkie or a customs official is no different in my opinion, the state have no right to steal someones property unless it is the proceeds of crime by CAB.

Xios

Stinicker wrote: »

The problem I would have is for the customs and Gardai to come onto private property and steal your vehicle for not paying what is an immoral tax. Now hypothetically say for instance I import a used Veyron into Ireland from another EU country, how can anyone here condone the theft of a persons car because they have not paid a stupid tax.

I could have a car polished in my garage that I only ever look at or drive on the track and for the customs and excise to be allowed to impound it is a disgrace and stealing whether by a heroin junkie or a customs official is no different in my opinion, the state have no right to steal someones property unless it is the proceeds of crime by CAB.

I'm sure if you informed Customs of your intended use of the vehicle to not be used on public roads, then you should be able to avoid the VRT, no? (i'm just guessing here) But a classic car museum importing cars for display wouldn't need to pay VRT as the cars won't be used.
Had she brought in the car to the country in the hopes that no one had noticed? Or had she informed customs that it was coming in?

hoodie6029

If you can't afford VRT, road tax, insurance etc. you don't get to drive.

Driving is a priviledge with responsiblities, not a right as so many people seem to think.

Shane732

Did the Gardai and Customs have a warrant to enter her private property?

Ignoring that point I think the Customs officers were completely justified although there was probably no need for the excessive amount officers present.

In relation to VRT - the tax itself is not illegal. I've made an application to the EU Commission in relation to it and posted the reply on a few occasions in this forum - I'm not going to be bothered posting it again.

While in principal VRT is not illegal there is a train of thought out there that the operation of the tax may well be (i.e. applying a registration tax is certainly not illegal but apply various different rates based on the value of the vehicle etc... may be.) - if anyone has €250,000 then we'll have our day in the ECJ (and more than likely lose) otherwise I suggest people abide with the law and pay the tax.

Could ill informed people just not bother posting? It would make the thread much easier to read.

Yawns

At the end of it all no one cares for the woman.

If you don't agree with VRT and choose not to pay it, then that's fine. When you get caught this is what happens. Deal with it. None of these sob stories

freighter

Yawns wrote: »

At the end of it all no one cares for the woman.

If you don't agree with VRT and choose not to pay it, then that's fine. When you get caught this is what happens. Deal with it. None of these sob stories

Thats the holy all of it;).. If i dont pay my vat every two months ill be getting letters in the door and then a visitor

MagicSean

Stinicker wrote: »

The problem I would have is for the customs and Gardai to come onto private property and steal your vehicle for not paying what is an immoral tax. Now hypothetically say for instance I import a used Veyron into Ireland from another EU country, how can anyone here condone the theft of a persons car because they have not paid a stupid tax.

I could have a car polished in my garage that I only ever look at or drive on the track and for the customs and excise to be allowed to impound it is a disgrace and stealing whether by a heroin junkie or a customs official is no different in my opinion, the state have no right to steal someones property unless it is the proceeds of crime by CAB.

How is it any different than someone importing thousands of cigarettes without paying the duty? If they are seized by customs is that stealing too?

freighter

k_mac wrote: »

How is it any different than someone importing thousands of cigarettes without paying the duty? If they are seized by customs is that stealing too?

Yes but stincker forgets that woman was driving about on the roads on foreign plates and not parked in the garage,,

stimpson

I have to say this is one of the funniest threads I've ever read on boards. I'm amazed how people will back tax evaders to the hilt while hundreds of thousands are on the dole and they are shutting hospitals everywhere.

I hope they charge her for the VRT, charge her for the road tax she evaded, give her a big fine, charge her for wasting police time, crush her car into a little cube and leave it on her driveway and charge her for the privilege.

I'm glad it got so much coverage too - people will think twice about it in future.

ceduffy

feckers i better not go out in mine ha ha

dr.fuzzenstein

With the general attitude of "It's the law you gotta pay up, ah sure nothing I can do, I agree with it, it's only right and it's completely alright for the state to impose VRT" it's no wonder that ireland is the biggest rip off in Europe.
Because the people are doormats and can only be pushed so far before they say "oh excuse me, I'll get out of your way", then when they have enough they vote FG before voting FF right back in and they know that and they're laughing at you.

Macca6

I just had a look at this facebook page 'VRT - IT'S ILLEGAL - ABOLISH IT NOW'. The guy who set it up has posted a comment saying .... I'm afraid they are right about the fact that VRT is technically a "legal" tax....

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm???????????

stimpson

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

With the general attitude of "It's the law you gotta pay up, ah sure nothing I can do, I agree with it, it's only right and it's completely alright for the state to impose VRT" it's no wonder that ireland is the biggest rip off in Europe.

Yeah - it's all the fault of the taxpayers. Even when it was the tax evaders, I knew it was dem taxpayers. :rolleyes:

worded

Matt Simis wrote: »

Because when looking at "what actually happened" without the colour of history (our history at that) allows the simplistic and frankly sheepish comments like "its the law, end of discussion". The comparison to the Window tax is valid as it was an unpopular tax, enforced heavily and plenty of idiots followed it, but some didnt. Ironically, unlike the Window Tax, Vehicle Registration Tax is in a manner more unfair, it penalises a subset of our society to pay for everything, if we need a replacement tax, it should be rolled into something everyone pays, like VAT.

Anyhow, its been indirectly answered that once its a "Law" most of you would indeed, "just do it", so Window Tax etc are entirely on the cards. According to Wikipedia its being considered as a Green Tax, so you guys may get your wish to comply with illogical and unfair laws sooner than you think! :rolleyes:


Hi there, welcome to Ireland. I invite you to my town, where there are no buses, taxies, or trains. How do you propose I get to work, where I pay nearly half my salary in tax to support the people who are meant to be implementing these services?
The VRT I paid went "somewhere" else, but it isnt helping me or my community in any useful manner.
Given the realities of Ireland, owning a car is frankly not a choice and car owners (given they are plenty and we as a people compliant and short sighted) are burdened with supporting everyone else for no good reason other than, its the law.


PS: Even buying a Used Irish car, part of the pricing structure includes VRT, once it existed at the start of the chain, its rather obviously is always a component of the price.

+1. Most people are too sheepish now. The fight has been bred out of us.

Macca6

Macca6 wrote: »

I just had a look at this facebook page 'VRT - IT'S ILLEGAL - ABOLISH IT NOW'. The guy who set it up has posted a comment saying .... I'm afraid they are right about the fact that VRT is technically a "legal" tax....

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm???????????

My point above being - if this guy was advising her that VRT is illegal during her 6 hour sit in protest, what is he saying to her now?

If she does get brought to court I wonder will her foot her legal bills???

dr.fuzzenstein

stimpson wrote: »

Yeah - it's all the fault of the taxpayers. Even when it was the tax evaders, I knew it was dem taxpayers. :rolleyes:

The problem is that you're getting feck all in return for the taxes you pay for transport here, example are all these shiny new motorways, gotta pay again, your VRT, VAT, fuel duty, road tax and god knows what else only buys you crap roads strewn with potholes.
Ireland has now 1 motorway link between two major cities, whoopdifcukingdooda, welcome to the 20th century!
All because the Irish will have a rant down the pub, but that's about it.
Also, by your attitude you must be on good money.
Others are not so lucky and had to take any job going and things are a bit tighter than they used to be.
You may have a good cushion in your earnings but for people who feel the pinch it's difficult, the state is not helping and those green cnuts certainly aren't helping.

Guy:Incognito

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

With the general attitude of "It's the law you gotta pay up, ah sure nothing I can do, I agree with it, it's only right and it's completely alright for the state to impose VRT" it's no wonder that ireland is the biggest rip off in Europe..

We're not even the most expensive for VRT in Europe.:rolleyes: