People from Northern Ireland are not British!

dlofnep

lugha wrote: »

It didn’t exist as a political entity in any meaningful way. Much of the rest of your post is predicated on this.

And how could it, under the control of a foreign Government?

lugha wrote: »

Yet nationalists have a valid claim to control the affairs of Irish unionists?

No, Irish people had a valid claim to control the affairs of Irish people. The 1918 elections gave them the mandate to do so - which was unfairly taken from them under duress.

lugha wrote: »

Your argument about the flaws in the creation of a Northern state are, to use your own words, a red herring. Nationalists insist that Ireland should not have been partitioned at all, not that it wasn’t portioned very fairly.

No, that's actually your argument. I was merely responding. You are attempting to make the claim that Unionists were merely being accommodated. They were not being just accommodated - they were being given privileges over counties that they did not even have a majority vote in.

The fact that Ireland was partitioned, is proof in itself that Ireland was a single entity. Even Britain considered it as such when it titled the Union as the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, rather than the Untied Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern and Southern Ireland.

And no - I don't believe that Ireland should have been partitioned at all. I've made this very clear to you on a number of occasions. There was not a mandate to do so and it caused more harm than good.

lugha wrote: »

I don’t believe the decades of conflict would necessarily have been avoided. There was going to be problems no matter what was done 90 years ago.

Ah yes - but so long as it's the nationalists who have a civil war - then it's all hunky for Britain, right?

lugha

ardmacha wrote: »

For inhabitants of a country to expect a democratic majority to prevail is simply the normal conduct of modern society at this point in history.

Ah but you are avoiding the point of contention. You assert that the country of Ireland (a geographical single entity but not a political one) is the "rightful" constituency. Not the larger one of GB + I, nor the smaller one of NI.

dlofnep

lugha wrote: »

Ah but you are avoiding the point of contention. You assert that the country of Ireland (a geographical single entity but not a political one) is the "rightful" constituency. Not the larger one of GB + I, nor the smaller one of NI.

GB is an Island, consisting of England, Scotland and Wales. Hence the title at the time - The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.

Northern Ireland did not exist prior to partition. Ireland however as a country did exist. Just like Wales, Scotland and England existed.

Your point is irrelevant. Ireland was a single entity. You're trying to excuse the partition of Ireland, which was done under duress - under the pretense that Unionists were just being accommodated. You're doing a very poor job of it.

owenc

dlofnep wrote: »

GB is an Island, consisting of England, Scotland and Wales. Hence the title at the time - The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.

Northern Ireland did not exist prior to partition. Ireland however as a country did exist. Just like Wales, Scotland and England existed.

Your point is irrelevant. Ireland was a single entity. You're trying to excuse the partition of Ireland, which was done under duress - under the pretense that Unionists were just being accommodated. You're doing a very poor job of it.

The irish news channels etc seem to use different terms to in the uk and ni, we don't call it "the north" and we don't say "derry" either (i don't like the idea of londonderry even though my family worked in the london companies, i see it as biogted but anyway), aswell as not using "great britiain and northern ireland"

sceptre

This thread's moved to the usual single entity or not thing that we've had many many times before as well as other things that are completely off-topic. Life support ended, it's no longer anything tangible to do with the original point of the thread and it was generous to let it live for this long. The irony of course is that some of you people know this but you're still toddling down that well-worn yellow brick road, despite the thread title. No points for you, if there was a "list", you'd be on it.

Locked. I suggest kicking a football or something instead.