Attempted abductions in Kildare/North Dublin [mod warning in effect #162 ]

caseyann

amdublin wrote: »

This thread is heading towards Conspiracy Theories I think!

Hey, anyone have an update on that child that was abducted last night?? You know, the one that wasn't reported via the media but was reported via bingo hall.

Oh i get it now because you don't believe it and other people are taking it seriously and listening it must be hysterical or conspiracy theories.Just because they don't agree with you.
And the schools and the people who have reported these incidents are liars and you know it all.

Diddler1977

caseyann wrote: »

Oh i get it now because you don't believe it and other people are taking it seriously and listening it must be hysterical or conspiracy theories.Just because they don't agree with you.
And the schools and the people who have reported these incidents are liars and you know it all.

Does anyone on here truly believe that there was a child abducted in Crumlin as reported by the "bingo hall circuit"??!!!!

Like, cmoin!!!!

Oh I know "better to be safe then sorry"....... - I'm sorry this doesn't cut the mustard with me.

Just because we want out children to be safe doesn't mean we should leave our common sense on the doorstep and believe any old thing we hear on the internet. As parents we abviously have to discern what is a real risk and what is not.

caseyann

Diddler1977 wrote: »

Does anyone on here truly believe that there was a child abducted in Crumlin as reported by the "bingo hall circuit"??!!!!

Like, cmoin!!!!

Oh I know "better to be safe then sorry"....... - I'm sorry this doesn't cut the mustard with me.

Just because we want out children to be safe doesn't mean we should leave our common sense on the doorstep and believe any old thing we hear on the internet. As parents we abviously have to discern what is a real risk and what is not.

Have i mentioned a single thing about that at all?

I am not believing what i see on Internet,i opened a thread for the exact same thing in Dublin section,because of the letter i got home and the letters that neighbours from other schools got,and because of the secretary i know who was there when reported in the school she works in in clondalkin,on top of that the first post and links the op supplied and also.
Other then that keep your common sense for your self i have plenty of my own thanks.

You decided for yourself what real risk is dont try and tell me what you think is or isnt.

smelltheglove

Wow, I got to work for the afternoon, tonnes of posts yet we still havent moved anywhere. Doubters v believers.

So to me its like this, I know the FACTS I have been presented with, hell even if it was only the case of my daughters school I'd be worried and warning other parents. So to me, I have facts, to the doubters the presence of a stranger on a playschool wall along with other information presented her is just internet rumour. Ok there are exagerrations which most of us believers understand, the Crumlin thing, yes most likely exagerration which grows from person to person since there have been no reports but tell me this, Diddler and amdublin mainly I aim at you guys as you are more vocal about your doubt, how would you fel if a stranger approached your child and youpresented the information here and that information was cast asde as internet rumour? It would be quite belittling wouldnt it?

Anyway, I hope to God no child gets abducted, I wish to God none of these reports were true but some of them are, maybe not all but some. The whole beware of men in white vans is a bit over the top, the arrest of a man at a school is ridiculous but we do need to remember, just because there have been no recent abductions doesnt mean there wont be again. Thinkk about it, if we base only on the 30 and 20 yr old cases alreayd quoted, 30 yrs ago a child goes. 10 yrs later many people would have thought, well it hasnt happened in 10 yrs its not likely to happen now, then another child goes missing. So now here we are 20 yrs later almost dismissing the possibility because it hasnt happened in 20 yrs? Listen just because it hasnt happened in a while does not mean it wont happen again and believe me here it is very easy to do, my brother at 14 got pulled into a car by 3 men, it was mistaken identity and after a few hours he was dropped off at the end of my dads road thank God for that bt jesus, my dad barely knew he was gone and nobody saw it happen!

Deliverance

This thread is getting a bit more about tit for tat and questioning about who is hyping or not, isn't it? Facts are facts and some facts have been put up. Although some 'stories' have been put up as well.

Also interestingly the Cons' as opposed to the Pros' of this thread seem to be getting some enjoyment out of just pure debating the hype trying to debunk the 'hysterical' parents' as a new internet social networking internet type of phenomena type of hysteria. This is clear due to the 'smart' and 'snarky' comments that have been posted. Let's not deny that folks, it would be annoying to do so.

If parents' have opinions and views combined with facts then they and I have a right to be concerned and not considered to be hysterical. If anything all the comments made by the Cons' to counter the concerned Pros' i.e. 'hysterical' parents concerns have not been backed up as much with v.little counter evidence as opposed to real evidence other than subjective, borderline passive agressive insults.

Ironically this type of behaviour is undermining the real concern of the thread. As a parent I see some value and realisation in this thread. Some of which I will take seriously i.e. the points with actual evidence. Some points I will ignore i.e. the 'stories' that are possibly based on chinese whispers. That is what parents do a course by being reponsible thinking people by design.

Bottom line about this thread as a concerned parent for me is:

1. I won't get hysterical about it what I read,
2. I won't add to this thread unless I have real evidence or experiences of recent attempts,
3. I will be more aware via real evidence put up by members, thankyou for the real evidence and input folks.
4. I will now instruct my child to be more careful about stranger danger without scaring her. this thread has given me a mission teach her about it more.
5. I will not ignore the possibility of it happening despite the Cons' over enthusiasm to debunk the thread.

Hey that is just me, I am a parent.

caseyann

Deliverance wrote: »

This thread is getting a bit more about tit for tat and questioning about who is hyping or not, isn't it? Facts are facts and some facts have been put up. Although some 'stories' have been put up as well.

Also interestingly the Cons' as opposed to the Pros' of this thread seem to be getting some enjoyment out of just pure debating the hype trying to debunk the 'hysterical' parents' as a new internet social networking internet type of phenomena type of hysteria. This is clear due to the 'smart' and 'snarky' comments that have been posted. Let's not deny that folks, it would be annoying to do so.

If parents' have opinions and views combined with facts then they and I have a right to be concerned and not considered to be hysterical. If anything all the comments made by the Cons' to counter the concerned Pros' i.e. 'hysterical' parents concerns have not been backed up as much with v.little counter evidence as opposed to real evidence other than subjective, borderline passive agressive insults.

Ironically this type of behaviour is undermining the real concern of the thread. As a parent I see some value and realisation in this thread. Some of which I will take seriously i.e. the points with actual evidence. Some points I will ignore i.e. the 'stories' that are possibly based on chinese whispers. That is what parents do a course by being reponsible thinking people by design.

Bottom line about this thread as a concerned parent for me is:

1. I won't get hysterical about it what I read,
2. I won't add to this thread unless I have real evidence or experiences of recent attempts,
3. I will be more aware via real evidence put up by members, thankyou for the real evidence and input folks.
4. I will now instruct my child to be more careful about stranger danger without scaring her. this thread has given me a mission teach her about it more.
5. I will not ignore the possibility of it happening despite the Cons' over enthusiasm to debunk the thread.

Hey that is just me, I am a parent.

Very well said thanks Deliverance:)

smelltheglove

Deliverance wrote: »

Hey that is just me, I am a parent.

You have a great way with words Deliverance. Very well put.

MarcoPolo23

I have decided to make my kids aware of people attempting child abductions and telling them what they will do to try to get you and all but inside i don't believe it but just incase it is true i will tell them. The reson why i don't believe it is because there is no evidence that there is people goin around trying to take kids. It hasn't been on the news radio or even Lucan,Wicklow ect...Gazette. or even the Lucan newsletter.
So i have made my children aware of the people and what they will do to try get you like using excuses such as Do you want some candy or I know where you live i can drop you home if you like or any of them excuses.

Elzer

This is mad why hasent this been on the national news???? I have young children and would hope we would be informed of this.....

Someone posted above its because of the influx of immagrents (these are mainly from the eastern block)..... Think they may have a point there, as these people may be on registers in europe but not here and we need better immigration laws here to stop such people being able to immigrate here........ Better checks should be enforced from any european country to allow access, and they wouldent allow a sex offender from here to enter their country so why are we so Lax....... Lobby the government to sort this problem now......:mad::mad::mad: Im not saying every person is a sex offender form these areas but come on we need structure to enforce what they would..... and we need to be fully aware this could also be someone local who is using foreign immegration to attack our vunrable children......

Diddler1977

Elzer wrote: »

This is mad why hasent this been on the national news???? I have young children and would hope we would be informed of this.....

Someone posted above its because of the influx of immagrents (these are mainly from the eastern block)..... Think they may have a point there, as these people may be on registers in europe but not here and we need better immigration laws here to stop such people being able to immigrate here........ Better checks should be enforced from any european country to allow access, and they wouldent allow a sex offender from here to enter their country so why are we so Lax....... Lobby the government to sort this problem now......:mad::mad::mad: Im not saying every person is a sex offender form these areas but come on we need structure to enforce what they would..... and we need to be fully aware this could also be someone local who is using foreign immegration to attack our vunrable children......

Being concerned for our childrens safety is not an excuse to target or label a particular group of people or nationality as being more likely to carry out certain crimes. This is called profiling and it is a very dangerous thing to get in to.

alrightcuz

“We are deeply concerned by figures released to Fine Gael’s Immigration & Integration Spokesman, Denis Naughten TD, today, revealing that 29 more children have gone missing from State care since January. This is shocking and we thank Deputy Naughten for drawing this to our attention. Children who go missing are extremely vulnerable and at grave risk.

A growing problem in Ireland, child trafficking is a serious human rights abuse that destroys childhoods. In 2008, nearly 400 separated children came to Ireland; 10% went missing, many of whom are likely to have been trafficked. Since 2000, a total of 496 children placed in the care of the HSE have gone missing; the vast majority, 434 vulnerable children, remain missing.

We have repeatedly called on the Irish State to acknowledge the existence of child trafficking in Ireland and to put in place measures to tackle trafficking, including the provision of adequate care and accommodation for separated children, and raising their level of care to the same standard as other children in HSE care. Furthermore, there is an urgent need to provide legal protection, safe accommodation and therapeutic supports for child victims of trafficking. We can, and must, stop child trafficking, and put an end to this very modern slave trade, here in Ireland.”


According to figures from the Department of Justice, seven sexual predators have been investigated for failing to comply with the requirements of the Sex Offenders Act 2001. Six of them have since left the state and escaped prosecution while one remained in Ireland and was prosecuted.


A total of 1,093 people in Ireland are now on the sex offenders register and are obliged to sign on with gardaÃ* and notify them of any change of address. Most of the 69 who have come from abroad arrived from the UK and US.


According the figures, seven rapists, paedophiles and other sex criminals have come into the state this year. Eight arrived in 2008.


In previous years, the figures have been far higher, with 17 and 18 sex offenders landing in Ireland in 2007 and 2006 respectively. An unÂ*known number of sex offenders are also likely to have travelled here without the knowledge of gardaÃ*.


Of the 1,093 convicted criminals on the list, fewer than five are women, according to garda sources familiar with the register. It is also understood that around 40 of the offenders are priests or members of other religious orders.

October 4, 2009

caseyann

alrightcuz wrote: »

“We are deeply concerned by figures released to Fine Gael’s Immigration & Integration Spokesman, Denis Naughten TD, today, revealing that 29 more children have gone missing from State care since January. This is shocking and we thank Deputy Naughten for drawing this to our attention. Children who go missing are extremely vulnerable and at grave risk.

A growing problem in Ireland, child trafficking is a serious human rights abuse that destroys childhoods. In 2008, nearly 400 separated children came to Ireland; 10% went missing, many of whom are likely to have been trafficked. Since 2000, a total of 496 children placed in the care of the HSE have gone missing; the vast majority, 434 vulnerable children, remain missing.

We have repeatedly called on the Irish State to acknowledge the existence of child trafficking in Ireland and to put in place measures to tackle trafficking, including the provision of adequate care and accommodation for separated children, and raising their level of care to the same standard as other children in HSE care. Furthermore, there is an urgent need to provide legal protection, safe accommodation and therapeutic supports for child victims of trafficking. We can, and must, stop child trafficking, and put an end to this very modern slave trade, here in Ireland.”


According to figures from the Department of Justice, seven sexual predators have been investigated for failing to comply with the requirements of the Sex Offenders Act 2001. Six of them have since left the state and escaped prosecution while one remained in Ireland and was prosecuted.


A total of 1,093 people in Ireland are now on the sex offenders register and are obliged to sign on with gardaÃ* and notify them of any change of address. Most of the 69 who have come from abroad arrived from the UK and US.


According the figures, seven rapists, paedophiles and other sex criminals have come into the state this year. Eight arrived in 2008.


In previous years, the figures have been far higher, with 17 and 18 sex offenders landing in Ireland in 2007 and 2006 respectively. An unÂ*known number of sex offenders are also likely to have travelled here without the knowledge of gardaÃ*.


Of the 1,093 convicted criminals on the list, fewer than five are women, according to garda sources familiar with the register. It is also understood that around 40 of the offenders are priests or members of other religious orders.

October 4, 2009

Disgraceful,country is cesspool:( Those people should not be allowed travel to different countries.

smelltheglove

Diddler1977 wrote: »

Being concerned for our childrens safety is not an excuse to target or label a particular group of people or nationality as being more likely to carry out certain crimes. This is called profiling and it is a very dangerous thing to get in to.

I know it sounds terrible, I wouldnt be racist in any sense of the word but I have felt this view very seriously myself.

As I said ion a post previous, at 14 my brother was dragged into a car by 3 men. I wont go into the details of the incident because it was quite complicated. It took my brother years to get over this. Being 7 years older, and fro a broken family, I was very close to my brother and I swear to God if I had have been in a room with those men no matter how much stronger than I they would be, I would have torn them to shreds!

My point here being, these men were foreigners. At the time all I could think was, these f****** could be murderers, paedophiles, rapists, anything but we cant know because they come to this country as asylum seekers, give a name, could be any name and we have no record of their past. I am not tarring all with this name, far from it believe me, but this is a fact, for a vast number of immigrants we have no details of their past, possible criminal records etc etc so there is a danger there. I remember about a year after the incident my brother went to get his hair cut at the local barbers. He came home without his hair cut, I tried talking to him to find out why, he was still obviously affected by this. You know what he said? 2 guys sat down beside him and started talking a different language. I wont say the nationality but he was convinced that these guys were sitting there laughing and mocking him. He felt so intimidated he got up and left.

Boxoffrogs

alrightcuz wrote: »

[/COLOR]A total of 1,093 people in Ireland are now on the sex offenders register and are obliged to sign on with gardaÃ* and notify them of any change of address. Most of the 69 who have come from abroad arrived from the UK and US.

Forgive me, but doesn't this indicate that the vast majority are home grown?

i.e. 1093-69=1024

dynamick

I remembered this story when I was reading this thread:

BBC News wrote:

Neglect ruling in girl pond death
The death of a toddler who fell into a pond after wandering away from her Warwickshire playgroup was an accident resulting from neglect, a jury ruled.
Two-year-old Abigail Rae disappeared from the Ready Teddy Go nursery in Lower Brailes, near Shipston-on-Stour.

She was found an hour later when her mother Victoria pulled her from the weed-covered pond.
...
Abigail, who had started at the nursery 10 days earlier, is believed to have got out through a back gate which staff believed had been bolted shut.

The door leading into the courtyard, near the gate, was left open for about 10 minutes as children and staff wheeled toys to a shed to be stored, on 28 November 2002.

Abduction fear

During the three-day hearing at Stratford-upon-Avon Town Hall, the court heard how a bricklayer had passed a toddler, believed to be Abigail, walking alone near the nursery.

But he did not stop to help in case he was suspected of abducting her.

there is more

It's a very sad story and a reflection on a society where adults are afraid to speak to children.

caseyann

dynamick wrote: »

I remembered this story when I was reading this thread:

there is more[/URL]

It's a very sad story and a reflection on a society where adults are afraid to speak to children.

He should have rang police and followed her while on phone to the police.

Or ran into the nursery and told them what he saw.Didnt have to talk to her at all.

Slick50

You don't go ringing the gardai, or running to the nearest creche every time you see an unaccompanied child.

smelltheglove

dynamick wrote: »

I remembered this story when I was reading this thread:

there is more[/URL]

It's a very sad story and a reflection on a society where adults are afraid to speak to children.

A very sad story indeed. There is a fear, particularily amongst men about things like this. My daughter will be going on a school trip, we got a note home to say one of us has to accompany them, they pulled names from a hat to see which parents should go, my husband point blank refused as the thought of being around the kids scared him, he'd hate to be accused of anything and I'm sure a lot of men in particular feel this way.

caseyann

Slick50 wrote: »

You don't go ringing the gardai, or running to the nearest creche every time you see an unaccompanied child.

An unaccompanied toddler wandering around with no parents around near a nursery?
I dont know about you but common sense would tell me parent is negligent or lost the child,and either way would ring them and report it.

I was walking past a store one day and there was this four year old little girl strolling around,i stopped as i could see no parent in sight and watched her,waited for couple of mins and saw no parent coming.I walked straight to the security inside the door,and told him.He ran out the door and caught up with the little girl and brought her back.The mother was after been frantic running around looking for her.
So i tell you what you hide scared and i will ring the police or call security or go into the nursery and tell them what i saw.

Slick50

Congratulations on your initiative. But common sense would tell you that not every child, that doesn't have an adult or older sibling in their immediate vicinity, warrants hitting the panic button. I personally don't have the time to hang around to investigate the circumstances of every lone child on the street.

caseyann

Slick50 wrote: »

Congratulations on your initiative. But common sense would tell you that not every child, that doesn't have an adult or older sibling in their immediate vicinity, warrants hitting the panic button. I personally don't have the time to hang around to investigate the circumstances of every lone child on the street.

Did i say all? Are you saying if you saw a small child alone wandering around non residental estate you wouldnt ring and report it? Just because you think its not worthy of been concerned?Because in all sceanrios either the parent doesnt care,warrants police intervention and social services,or parent is going out of their mind,or child has gotten lost.
I would rather take my chances and ring and report it then ignore it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFz-Yyw7uQI

Slick50

If you hadn't said "all", you did in your last post. I think it's easy to say what someone should have done in hind sight. In the circumstances of the bricklayer, it probably never occured to him to make a call to the police, untill he realised that the young girl he had seen, was the same girl that drowned. I would be suprised if he was the only person to see the young girl alone that morning. He may not have even known there was a creche near by. It is a tragic event.
But just to clarify what "I" am saying is, "I" don't ring the gardai, or go running around to see if there is a creche in the immediate vicinity, every time I see an unacompanied child. I don't think it is a natural reaction, and I don't know anyone that does. So, before you go conjuring up any further scenarios, apply a little of that common sense.

caseyann

Slick50 wrote: »

If you hadn't said "all", you did in your last post. I think it's easy to say what someone should have done in hind sight. In the circumstances of the bricklayer, it probably never occured to him to make a call to the police, untill he realised that the young girl he had seen, was the same girl that drowned. I would be suprised if he was the only person to see the young girl alone that morning. He may not have even known there was a creche near by. It is a tragic event.
But just to clarify what "I" am saying is, "I" don't ring the gardai, or go running around to see if there is a creche in the immediate vicinity, every time I see an unacompanied child. I don't think it is a natural reaction, and I don't know anyone that does. So, before you go conjuring up any further scenarios, apply a little of that common sense.

Ofc you wouldn't because its perfectly natural to see toddlers wandering around with no adult around?
There in lies the problem.
Someone is hardly going to call you an abuser or anything if you call the police if you feel it doesn't look right.Or the child and i am talking a small child not a 10 year old and up or even 8 year olds,because likely hood is the parents know where they are or don't care.
I have plenty of common sense don't imply i don't thanks.
And i added the youtube video to show people how easy it is for an abductor to snatch a child, and she didn't look like a very young in the cctv at beginning of the you tube video.

dan_d

I think it's more the difference between "hitting the panic button" and approaching the child calmly and using your common sense where necessary.
I'd certainly notice a child personally, but I'd take a long hard look around first...maybe hang around for a minute to see if someone appears...before I decided to approach them.

EGOSHEA

For anybody who is interested:

I am the helpline coordinator for a missing persons organisation based in Dublin. We have trained volunteers and regular contact with the Gardai and related organisations. If you would like to check out our site, it can be found at www.missingpersons.ie

Our helpline number is: 1890 442 552

If any of you would like to become a member of our organisation, PM me and I can email you our membership form - this will result in you being sent quarterly newsletters and being kept up-to-date on related events in Ireland - as well as invitation to our annual AGM.

All the best,

Eoin O'Shea
Helpline Coordinator
Missing in Ireland Support Service (MISS)

Deliverance

dan_d wrote: »

I think it's more the difference between "hitting the panic button" and approaching the child calmly and using your common sense where necessary.
I'd certainly notice a child personally, but I'd take a long hard look around first...maybe hang around for a minute to see if someone appears...before I decided to approach them.

I had an experience before I was a parent i.e. A 2-3yr old was wandering on her own along a footpath and she was clearly on her own on a busy street. I immediately followed her and kept an eye on her as she could have easily walked out into traffic unexpectedly.

I did not approach the child being a male, because I was fearful of being seen as a 'bad man' i.e. a stranger. I followed the little one for awhile making sure she was safe traffic wise, until I saw a friendly local female and asked her to approach the child.

She approached the child and talked to her and kept her in place with chat. In the meantime I noticed the inevitable concerned, panicked parent emerging from a nearby house. I called to her and pointed her towards her missing child.

The parent ran out and picked her up and ran back into her house without thanking the people that kept her child safe out of concern. Understandable really I think, as she was embarrassed and a bit panicked as well.

Just goes to show how easily it can happen to any parent. At the same time ignoring a lone child on the street is definitely something that should not done. Being a single man or a male in general is a concern in such a situation for sure but it does not mean that a walk away is an option.

SerialComplaint

smelltheglove wrote: »

My daughter will be going on a school trip, we got a note home to say one of us has to accompany them, they pulled names from a hat to see which parents should go, my husband point blank refused as the thought of being around the kids scared him, he'd hate to be accused of anything and I'm sure a lot of men in particular feel this way.

That's easily solved - all he has to do is make sure that he is never alone with a child. Have another adult around at all time. Men shouldn't be running scared of these roles.

smelltheglove

SerialComplaint wrote: »

That's easily solved - all he has to do is make sure that he is never alone with a child. Have another adult around at all time. Men shouldn't be running scared of these roles.

The fact is though many of them are afraid to be alone. I remember when I had my first my older brother looked after her for a couple of hours, he had a baby boy himself. Well the little one did a number 2 and my brother called me and asked would it be ok for him to change it or did I want him to wait for his wife to come home? He didnt know if it would be appropriate for a man to change the nappy of a girl who was not his daughter. I thought it was strange at the time but now I am a bit older I see why men are fearful.

On the school trip, I went instead, there was only one daddy there. I was telling him what my hubbie said and he felt the same only he didnt have a chice as his partner had a hospital appointment.

Deliverance

SerialComplaint wrote: »

That's easily solved - all he has to do is make sure that he is never alone with a child. Have another adult around at all time. Men shouldn't be running scared of these roles.

Very true, despite the unfortunate fear that exists, There is always a way around it. As a further point isn't is really odd how men are viewed in these circumstances as being more likely to be potential sexual predators?

Davidth88

Ok , this tread has moved on somewhat to a more general theme.

Last summer we were in the Phoenix park playground ( very good one by the way ) .

We took our 3 YO girl to the toilet , outside was a gentleman with two girls about the same age. It transpired the girls were his daughter and friend . He asked my wife to take them to the toilet because he felt uncomfortable taking a little girl other than his daughter to the toilet .

Understandable , but sad !

I think I have posted this before , years ago my father told a story where he was walking to work and a little girl fell over in front of him ( having run on ahead of her mother about 200yds away ). His instinct as a father of 4 was to pick the girl up and comfort her, however he felt he couldn't !

Again understandable but sad !

All men are not sexual predators , I wish we could reverse this in some way .