End of the line for the La Touche?

Wicklowandy

Even though we're in a recession, a site like that still has a value (its not like its in a field in leitrim) of course a lot less than boom time value, and less than the bank debt secured on the site.

Wicklow county council are a broke organisation (financially, they've been morally broken for a good many years now) and even if the value was a euro with a stipulation to reinstate the site, i doubt they could raise funding for it.

The fact that they didnt use powers available to them here, and in other buildings within the county demonstrates what a great thing it is that planning responsibilities are being removed from them. A lot of blighted sites exist here, and in the absence of government finance to fix them, we're going to have to look at things like this for at least 10 more years, or until it becomes profitable for a private investor to get involved.

The question should be, will we, and the people we entrust with our surroundings learn anything from this disgrace?

matt-dublin

Market value is still like €4 million euro, and would probably need more than a million to make structurally safety's even more money to just retain the facade!

Then on top of it there would be public liability insurance etc. the place is a bottomless money pit with little or no potential return on any investment in the current environment.

I say knock it down and give some people a nice view of the sea for a few years until a property developer puts something decent there.

Jimjay

matt-dublin wrote: »

Market value is still like €4 million euro, and would probably need more than a million to make structurally safety's even more money to just retain the facade!

Then on top of it there would be public liability insurance etc. the place is a bottomless money pit with little or no potential return on any investment in the current environment.

I say knock it down and give some people a nice view of the sea for a few years until a property developer puts something decent there.

Unfortunately I think I agree with you. I say that as it WAS a beautiful building and it would be a very sad day when it goes.

The only problem with your suggestion is that after a few years all those with the new view of the sea would object to any new plans

Macy0161

To remove the protected status, and allow it to be knocked, sets an awful precedent though - sure why bother even protecting structures, if there's such an easy way around it? Everything about the way development in Greystones and Wicklow is handled, from the council(s) to councillors would make you cynical.

matt-dublin

why keep the protected status? its old and run down. it will never be used again unless its knocked and rebuilt. realistically it has to go otherwise it will be an eyesore for generations to come.

the land would be in better use if it was a car park which potentially could be used as a weekend summer market. or even turn it into a park.

at the moment its an eyesore that reminds me of times gone and the poor girl who died on the rocks after being in the nightclub.

same logic with the harbour, yes the old one had historic value, yes part of it was the base of the kish, but its not functional.

Dunphus

I think it would be nice if there were some creative engineering/architecture work done on it. Knock it down but retain the façade, construct a new modern hotel on the inside while maintaining the historic façade. Much like what was done with the O2. The more modern parts of the building could be demolished and recycled for use in the new structure to cut a small part of the costs.

It would be expensive of course, but would be quite a nice iconic project.

Edit: An example of this going terribly wrong is the shopping centre on Bray mainstreet which has been a supported façade with a car park behind it for years, the lesson here is to keep local politicians noses out of it.

matt-dublin

the reason the hotel went bust in the first place is because there was no business, why set up for another failure.

its that sorta talk that got the economy in the state it is!!!!!

The Durutti Column

Maudi wrote: »

fond memories of the hotel but as some said what can be saved? even if the facade could be saved it would be great for the history/heritage of g.stones..however that woman galleher?(she was on east coast earlier..really annoying voice)she was pushing to get it demolished..this is the same one who keeps harping on about how "beautiful"the harbour is and how we should all love it..

That's our wonderful current 'Mayor' you're talking about, Maudi. Kathleen Kelleher, a Fianna Failure town councillor (only one left).

http://www.kathleenkelleher.com/

Wicklowandy

matt-dublin wrote: »

the reason the hotel went bust in the first place is because there was no business, why set up for another failure.

its that sorta talk that got the economy in the state it is!!!!!

The problem is the precedent has already been set; allow your protected structure to be destroyed, and then and only then will local representatives decide to intervene and say lets remove its protected status and demolish this eyesore.

I don't believe a good operator could not have made a go of the La Touche at the time. Unfortunately owners were not interested in business then; they decided to make their fortune through property development.

Thats what got the economy intothe state its in.

loyatemu

Hotel, bar, restaurant, function rooms - properly run it might have been possible to make a go of it. other small towns manage to support a hotel.

If they demolished the Lautrex wing and restored the back gardens, with easy access from the seafront they could do weddings, christenings, pull in the weekenders for teas and lunches. The old hotel was always full on 5 nations weekends when Ireland were playing at home.

The main problem is that even well run, it wouldn't be a major money-spinner - it could possibly function as a small family-run business but that wouldn't cover the costs of restoring it to a reasonable standard; and NAMA now own it and will want to make some money from its sale, which will only happen if it is sold as a development site.

Fiachra2

I believe TV3 are going to cover the issue.

With regard to some of the posts above its worth noting that there is no plan to demolish. There is no plan to build a hotel or anything else. If there were such a plan we could assess the proposal in that context and maybe we might agree to reduce the protection.
All that is proposed is the removal of the protection so that the owners (a bank, one of the ones we will all be bailing out for the rest of our lives) gets a better price for the building.
The building will almost certainly stay exactly as it is (except getting worse) for the next decade. While it has protection there is some chance that a developer will come up with a viable proposal which includes preserving the structure. Take the protection away and you kiss goodbye to that option.

irlirishkev

Fiachra2 wrote: »

I believe TV3 are going to cover the issue.

Seriously??

Maudi

The Durutti Column wrote: »

That's our wonderful current 'Mayor' you're talking about, Maudi. Kathleen Kelleher, a Fianna Failure town councillor (only one left).

http://www.kathleenkelleher.com/

kelleher sorry.

Fiachra2

irlirishkev wrote: »

Seriously??

Yes. It will be aired on their morning show next Monday.

Mitch Connor

If I won the Euro Millions I'd buy it in an instant if its value is as little as 4million. Keep the front, knock out much the back - build apartments from second floor upwards, some shops on the bottom and an underground carpark - get rid of the carpark that is/was there and turn it back into a greensite.

Nice apartments, in greystones, fabulous view of the sea and the police station right beside you.

Price right, and its a winnger. keeping the front facade would keep something iconic in greystones too.

matt-dublin

I'd knock the whole place and turn it into a pay and display car park

Fiachra2

On Monday, TV3's morning show are showing a piece about Wicklow County Council's plans to remove protection from the LaTouche hotel (paving the way for its demolition). The piece also covers the efforts of the community to rectify the dereliction of the harbour and other related topics. Show goes out at 11am

Mahogany

Keep it and do something with it

mariaalice

I cant understand why no body want to run it as hotel again ( just keeping the facade as its not great on the inside ) It would do fantastic business for weddings/ weekends away/food/bars. I always though it was a lovely hotel.

Or even a small apartment/ hotel development.

jpd

Whilst it would be nice to have a hotel on the site, I don't think that current hotel room rates/profits are high enough to justify the up-front investment/loan required to (re-)build a modern hotel. But who knows?

Fiachra2

Yesterday Wicklow county Council voted to remove the listed building status from the LaTouche and replace it with a lesser form of protection. A proposal from Tom Fortune that the status be retained was rejected but a further proposal from him that the LaTouche be specifically named as a building that could not be demolished was adopted.

Quackhart

McDonalds it like they did to that wonderful building at the top of the main street in Bray.........

But seriously now do we REALLY need to keep it and why??

It's a nice building, but I have seen better. It has no overriding architectural features, or value, I don't think it was designed and built by an architect of renown? I think it's only value is ensconced entirely in the sentimentality of the residents of Greystones. That is no reason to "save" an eyesore building like this in my opinion.

It's dilapidated as is, let it go, transform it into a public space, create something useful for the community on the whole to use. Maybe an outdoor market place, something that fits more with the boheme of Greystones.

Fiachra2

Thats one perspective but on the evidence available not one shared by most people in Greystones.
If there was a plan to create something else that had public support then consideration could be given to alternatives. However there is no plan and when one comes along I'd be prepared to put a substantial bet that it is for a large block of apartments which will almost certainly be less pleasing to the eye than a restored facade of the existing building.
And if you want a space for a market, why there is acres of it down at the harbour which will lie empty for a long time!

loyatemu

I like the La Touche, all things being equal I'd rather see it retained. But currently its an eyesore and we could be looking at it for a long time...

Options seem to be

1. Restore it as a hotel
2. Restore it as something else
3. Knock it and build something else
4. Leave it to moulder until 1 or 2 are viable, or (more likely) it burns down in the meantime.

here's its less-attractive Rathdrum cousin, currently on the market for 150K. Opinion on the property pin is that its worth less than nothing due the enormous cost of redeveloping it into anything useful.

does anyone know how much they currently want for the La Touche - it was 15m but to be in any way attractive to a developer (are there any left?) it would have to be very cheap.

Perhaps the correct people to be lobbying here are NAMA - currently they don't give a hoot what happens to it or what effect it has on the town. As long as they have it on the market for whatever stupid figure they want for it, it retains its book value - their remit is Manage Assets, not preserve old buildings.

doylerd

This has gone beyond a farce. How many years must the corpse of the La Touche be left to rot as a blight on the town before these idiotic politicians realise NOBODY IS GOING TO BUY THAT SITE UNLESS THEY CAN LEVEL WHAT'S THERE.

I'm as sentimental as the next Greystonian, in fact moreseo when it comes to the La Touche, but sorry lads this is now beyond fixing.

Fiachra2

doylerd wrote: »

NOBODY IS GOING TO BUY THAT SITE UNLESS THEY CAN LEVEL WHAT'S THERE.

I'm as sentimental as the next Greystonian, in fact moreseo when it comes to the La Touche, but sorry lads this is now beyond fixing.

Funnily enough thats exactly what developers said about Georgian buildings in Dublin and set about demolishing them and replacing them with (in some cases) some of the ugliest buildings in the Northern hemisphere. Eventually the planners bowed to public pressure and said "No you must preserve the facades at least"
Astonishing as it may seem the developers then came up with ways of preserving the facades and still making money out of the buildings and Dublin has benefited greatly since.

Same applies to the LaTouche. Certainly as an earlier post pointed out it means that its not worth very much to its owners which happens to be a bank. I for one wont loose a lot of sleep over a bank being out of pocket.

pixbyjohn

Fiachra2 wrote: »

Same applies to the LaTouche. Certainly as an earlier post pointed out it means that its not worth very much to its owners which happens to be a bank. I for one wont loose a lot of sleep over a bank being out of pocket.

But Fiachra who pays when the banks lose money, have you not been keeping up with the news in the past few years? :eek:

Fiachra2

pixbyjohn wrote: »

But Fiachra who pays when the banks lose money, have you not been keeping up with the news in the past few years? :eek:

We have already paid. Loses such as this have already been provided for in calculating how much they have lost to date and how much we have had to shore them up. It makes no difference to our taxes. And dont delude yourself for a minute in thinking that if the banks start making money again that any of it will be returned!

The critical point is that short term economic gain (for a reletivly small number of individuals) should never be a condsideration when planning the future of landscapes or heritage. The gain (both economic and non-economic)for future genarations of preservation vastly outweighs the short-term one.

pixbyjohn

And we continue to pay..........a derelict site is not much of a benefit to anyone. Complacency of our citizens doesn't help either but that is another story.

krieture

The la touche is such a sorry state these days. Like people have mentioned some folks have a nostalgic attachment to the building. I'm one of them. I've got great memories of being there with my parents, eating, drinking and enjoying the view. As a teenager i also frequented La Trex and Club Life.

Greystones is the perfect location for a hotel. There is no competition. Its got a great reputation. I suppose the financial sleuths have worked out that restoring it is too expensive.

But i feel on principle we should support it. It's part of greystones. Part of its identity. And yeah **** the developer who overpaid for it. But don't let it get to the bitter end. It's still (to my untrained eye)savable.