FBD Insurance Ras 2010

giannip

Slideshowbob wrote: »

Is NP same as average power? or whats the difference in layman's (non sports science) terms?

No. NP takes into account the stocastic (stop / start) nature of cycling. If you think of a race, there are times of sharp bursts, lulls, long fast efforts etc. It's not linear or a consistant effort.

The longer the effort, the wider the difference between NP & AP.

E.g. A 10min interval's AP & NP would be very close. Single digit difference in watts, while a 1 hour crit / club race would show a much larger difference. 30,40,50 watts, depending on your efforts & how agressively you rode the race.

Here's a more detailed explanation.
http://www.cyclingtipsblog.com/2009/07/average-vs-normalized-power/

Slideshowbob

giannip wrote: »

No. NP takes into account the stocastic (stop / start) nature of cycling. If you think of a race, there are times of sharp bursts, lulls, long fast efforts etc. It's not linear or a consistant effort.

The longer the effort, the wider the difference between NP & AP.

E.g. A 10min interval's AP & NP would be very close. Single digit difference in watts, while a 1 hour crit / club race would show a much larger difference. 30,40,50 watts, depending on your efforts & how agressively you rode the race.

Here's a more detailed explanation.
http://www.cyclingtipsblog.com/2009/07/average-vs-normalized-power/

hmmm is NP when you actually making an effort as opposed to just spinning for sake of it?

will NP always be higher than AP?

@Ryan - what was your power output at end of stage 4 when you were sprinting for the stage win? Were you checking it while you sprinted?

ryan_sherlock

Yeah, my FTP is 400+ Watts...

The sprint - I'm not really a sprinter, peak 5 second was 1000W. Last 20 seconds was 810W

ryan_sherlock

Oh, and it feels like a truck hit me (not the tarmac and a bunch of other cyclists...)

Slideshowbob

Whats ftp?

thanks

Lumen

Slideshowbob wrote: »

Whats ftp?

Functional Threshold Power, the power you can sustain for one hour.

You have your threshold power, which is what you could theoretically sustain indefinitely if you had sufficient fuel and no personality, and then you have your anaerobic capacity, which is an amount of work you can put in over that until your legs fill with lactate and you have to crawl into a ditch.

Since you can't measure TP directly, people use FTP to indicate a similar thing, basic aerobic capacity. FTP has a sufficiently long duration that your anaerobic capacity plays a relatively small part.

In any case, the concept of chasing back solo to the lead group in the RAS after a crash is completely incomprehensible to me.

Beasty

Useful blog on average v normalised power here

Normalized Power combines two factors. First, the fact that physiological responses to rapid changes in intensity follow a time course that is predictable. Secondly, the fact that many physiological responses (e.g. lactate production, glycogen utilization, etc) are not linear when related to exercise intensity. For example, a ride that has massive accelerations and then lulls (perhaps a criterium) will be more demanding on your energy systems than a ride that is much more steady – even though they may average out to being the same wattage in the end. Normalized Power is basically an estimate of the power that you could have maintainted for the same physiological “cost” if your power output had been constant.

I need to check back to the textbook, but I think it is possible for average power to exceed normalised power (although it's never happened in my case)

Even with average power, there are two different measures (although I believe both are arithmetiuc averages). One is the average when pedalling and the other (which is normally going to be lower) includes time spent not pedalling

I guess it is possible to do a ride where all three measures are pretty much equal - this would involve constant power output, no wind, a flat course and no freewheeling (ie track cycling on an indoor velodrome)

(Lumen, I know we are going way off-topic here - do you think this warrants a separate thread?)

shaungil

(Lumen, I know we are going way off-topic here - do you think this warrants a separate thread?)[/QUOTE]

Please!!!! Just shows what the body can do when it has to. Adrenalin and sheer bloody mindedness put all this science malarkey to shame.

Lumen

Beasty wrote:

Lumen, I know we are going way off-topic here - do you think this warrants a separate thread?

Feel free to start one, although you might be having a conversation with yourself. I don't want to move the posts as they do relate to the RAS-specific stats posted by Ryan.

shaungil wrote: »

Just shows what the body can do when it has to. Adrenalin and sheer bloody mindedness put all this science malarkey to shame.

A lovely thought, except that Ryan has been using a power meter for years, so if you're looking for an example of luddite stem-chewing bloody mindedness you probably need to look elsewhere

jwshooter

i hope to be on corrabutt gap today ,MT leinster is as clear as a bell .will bring my camera

ROK ON

jwshooter wrote: »

i hope to be on corrabutt gap today ,MT leinster is as clear as a bell .will bring my camera

If you have a phone with web capability could you post some updates etc.

gman2k

jwshooter wrote: »

i hope to be on corrabutt gap today ,MT leinster is as clear as a bell .will bring my camera

Any idea of the timings for route locations today - the FBD Ras site seems to be missing the details for today.... It was up a few days ago, but I can't find it now.
Was going to head to Knocktopher, but Corrabutt may be better!

Slideshowbob

Lumen wrote: »

Functional Threshold Power, the power you can sustain for one hour.

You have your threshold power, which is what you could theoretically sustain indefinitely if you had sufficient fuel and no personality, and then you have your anaerobic capacity, which is an amount of work you can put in over that until your legs fill with lactate and you have to crawl into a ditch.

Since you can't measure TP directly, people use FTP to indicate a similar thing, basic aerobic capacity. FTP has a sufficiently long duration that your anaerobic capacity plays a relatively small part.

In any case, the concept of chasing back solo to the lead group in the RAS after a crash is completely incomprehensible to me.

indefinately? doesnt sleep and other bodily requirements come into it!?! :eek:

good ras updates on irishcycling.com and an post cycling twitter

shaungil

Lumen wrote:

A lovely thought, except that Ryan has been using a power meter for years, so if you're looking for an example of luddite stem-chewing bloody mindedness you probably need to look elsewhere

But I'd have thought that in that situation if you were looking at a power meter you'de be thinking that you're well over where you should be when in fact your body can do more than you'll ever realise.

Before I go off topic I will add it relates to a conversation myself and Beasty had at 6.30 this morning when I advocated that some people tend to become too reliant on technology and don't listen to their body. Some people were me and I ditched a HR monitor. I fully appreciate the benefits of technology but just think there is a balance to be had.

For me Ryan has been the revelation of the Ras by the way.

alfalad

Anyone know if there is a map for the Ras showing the exact route on google maps or the like?

Beasty

shaungil wrote: »

But I'd have thought that in that situation if you were looking at a power meter you'de be thinking that you're well over where you should be when in fact your body can do more than you'll ever realise.

Before I go off topic I will add it relates to a conversation myself and Beasty had at 6.30 this morning when I advocated that some people tend to become too reliant on technology and don't listen to their body. Some people were me and I ditched a HR monitor. I fully appreciate the benefits of technology but just think there is a balance to be had.

I'll post something in the training log tonight about how the powermeter helped me on Wednesday's TT. Interestingly I had the computers continuously showing 16 different fields, but I only actully looked at Power (3s and 30s averages), Normalised Power and Speed (and I only checked speed when I turned into the wind and slowed considerably)

Beasty

gman2k wrote: »

Any idea of the timings for route locations today - the FBD Ras site seems to be missing the details for today.... It was up a few days ago, but I can't find it now.
Was going to head to Knocktopher, but Corrabutt may be better!

It's there, although there does not seem to be anything on the website pointing to it (nhence some guesswork involved in finding it!)

ednwireland

nice to see the papers reportingthe racing :rolleyes:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/four-more-cyclists-hospitalised-after-latest-crash-causes-mayhem-on-ras-2198123.html?start=1

Lumen

ednwireland wrote: »

nice to see the papers reporting the racing

Cyclist John Lynch receives attention after the crash

From God himself, apparently. Or at least, that's what I'd always imagined Him to look like, except perhaps with different socks.

Beasty

Lumen wrote: »

Cyclist John Lynch receives attention after the crash

From God himself, apparently. Or at least, that's what I'd always imagined Him to look like, except perhaps with different socks.

There's a good one in the print version of RobFowl hovering over the same rider looking like he is slapping him in the face

bcmf

Update from the Rob Fowl car....... Rryan sherlock is now the leader in the county rider classment and todays stage is dedicated to paul healion

iregk

Does anyone know if the driver of the 4x4 will face any action? Clearly he didn't observe traffic and other road users prior to moving out onto the road? I'm assuming he would also have known due to signage that the race was due to come through that area. Also the two Gardai bikes, however far ahead of the race must have twigged something in his memory?

ROK ON

It has been mentioned previously, but I would highly recommend that folks read Brian Cantys race blog in the Examiner.
Fascinating and horrifying at the same time.

Lumen

Tweets from Anto Walsh (UCD):

"12:38 PM May 26th: Crashed with 25km to go today and lost a pile of time. Back a touch sore but should be fine for tomorrow
..
about 14 hours ago: Came down very heavy today. Bike smashed to bits and body pretty beat up. Will decide whether to race stage 6 in the morning"

Ouch.

shaungil

Believe Anto started today on a patched spare bike. They're all mad. you have to love it.

bcmf

I posted the above while out and about. he sent me another txt which reads "50 off the back already and only 15km into the stage".
I think its a case of ' flag dropped' 'hammer down'

bcmf

Got this e-mail yest.

STAGE 8, DÉ DOMHNAIGH 30ú BEALTAINE.- Sunday 30th May.- KILCULLEN - SKERRIES +2 LAPS OF 13.7KMS CIRCUIT, 140 KMS.
Hi Folks,
Just a brief reminder that this coming Sunday the FBD Rás finishes in Skerries, the estimated time(s) of arrival for the race to come through Balrothery and onto the Skerries circuit are:-

Estimated Time of Arrival at Kilometres per Hour. 48, 40, 32
Tail wind 48kms 14:10
Average 40kms 14:35
Head wind 32kms 15:15

For further details please log on to http://www.fbdinsuranceras.com/event/fbdras_652.shtml

Please note that there will be severe traffic restrictions in Skerries on the day. When the race comes through Balrothery the Skerries circuit will be locked down and the Town ring fenced for the duration, in the past this has been for approx 1 hour

Beasty

bcmf wrote: »

Got this e-mail yest.

STAGE 8, DÉ DOMHNAIGH 30ú BEALTAINE.- Sunday 30th May.- KILCULLEN - SKERRIES +2 LAPS OF 13.7KMS CIRCUIT, 140 KMS.
Hi Folks,
Just a brief reminder that this coming Sunday the FBD Rás finishes in Skerries, the estimated time(s) of arrival for the race to come through Balrothery and onto the Skerries circuit are:-

Estimated Time of Arrival at Kilometres per Hour. 48, 40, 32
Tail wind 48kms 14:10
Average 40kms 14:35
Head wind 32kms 15:15

For further details please log on to http://www.fbdinsuranceras.com/event/fbdras_652.shtml

Please note that there will be severe traffic restrictions in Skerries on the day. When the race comes through Balrothery the Skerries circuit will be locked down and the Town ring fenced for the duration, in the past this has been for approx 1 hour

Veggie burger please bcmf;)

LeoD

Another Rás rider - Kieran Keane on Twitter. Sounds torturous for the genuine Irish amateurs.

bcmf

Beasty wrote: »

"Veggie" and "burger"

2 words that should never be seen together

Beasty

bcmf wrote: »

2 words that should never be seen together

I anticipated that type of reaction from you:p

TBH, cheese sandwiches and crisps will do for me - the kids are looking forward to your burgers though (they like that big playground you have also):)

bcmf

As stated before my gates will be closed to keep peasants out and the hounds will be released

07Lapierre

Tiernan-Locke climbed Seskin Hill on a 39x23..not bad!

http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/cycling-weary-tiernanlocke-gets-over-final-hill-2198176.html

emtroche

iregk wrote: »

Clearly he didn't observe traffic and other road users prior to moving out onto the road?

Unless you know all the details theres nothing clear about it.

emtroche

Lumen wrote: »

Cyclist John Lynch receives attention after the crash

From God himself, apparently. Or at least, that's what I'd always imagined Him to look like, except perhaps with different socks.

Jaysus! Imagine waking up with him looking down on you!

jwshooter

on the corrabutt o loughlin ,in a 3 man break by 2 mins . some riders 20 mins off the group

Lumen

emtroche wrote: »

Jaysus! Imagine waking up with him looking down on you!

Upside down too. People always look freaky upside down. Maybe that's why he grew the beard.

Beasty

John Degenkolb (Germany Thuringer Energie) takes today's stage 6 ahead of Dan Craven

They were about a minute ahead of the chasing bunch

No change to yellow jersey

More here

killalanerr

super hard day flat out from the get go some picks here

http://s804.photobucket.com/albums/yy327/killalanerr/fbd%20ras%202010%20day%206/

jwshooter

some shot on corrabutt gap

ps. new tar down on the gap down to bunclody ,the road is brilant for cycling now .

ROK ON

jwshooter wrote: »

some shot on corrabutt gap

ps. new tar down on the gap down to bunclody ,the road is brilant for cycling now .

Lovely photos. I'm sure the riders don't need reminding about the pain gain tradeoff.

emtroche

Heres a map of tomorrows stage (stage 7). Some people might find it a bit handier than the manual directions.

Bear in mind it's unofficial but i'm fairly certain it's accurate!

http://ridewithgps.com/routes/81193

Junior

07Lapierre wrote: »

Tiernan-Locke climbed Seskin Hill on a 39x23..not bad!

http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/cycling-weary-tiernanlocke-gets-over-final-hill-2198176.html

Pfft, I TT'd up there in a 42*23

Slideshowbob

iregk wrote: »

Does anyone know if the driver of the 4x4 will face any action? Clearly he didn't observe traffic and other road users prior to moving out onto the road? I'm assuming he would also have known due to signage that the race was due to come through that area. Also the two Gardai bikes, however far ahead of the race must have twigged something in his memory?

Unless you have info to hand that's beyond the public domain you are off the mark here as it stands

It is not clear that he didnt observe traffic etc

The chap could be entirely innocent - also could well be still in shock by the event for all you know - indeed could be out of pocket with damage to his jeep.

Signage? care to be more specific? you mean the occasional Ras promotion poster in some shops en route? He was duty bound to take that info in and analyse?

in theory he could have seen no vehicles or riders before he pulled out.

How can you tell he was aware of what was going on?

As I said earlier in this thread:

I haven't heard that there was a motorbike marshall static at the junction he came out of.

Unfair to apportion blame til facts are known.

The driver could have done nothing wrong for all we know.

It's not beyond the bounds of possibility that the driver may have been on his side of the roads and the 4 Spanish riders may not have been (I don't want to assume anything just stating a possibility.

Anyway Alaistair McLennan was on rte radio 1 this week saying he was heading up an independent enquiry - any outcomes yet??

Slideshowbob

Lumen wrote: »

Cyclist John Lynch receives attention after the crash

From God himself, apparently. Or at least, that's what I'd always imagined Him to look like, except perhaps with different socks.

thats liam walker of kilcullen cc (the rider's team manager)

a very decent gent that has been involved in cycling since the early nineties at least. If everyone else involved in the sport did 10% of what Liam has done for the sport over the years cycling would be better off.

im sure the rider concerned was relieved to see a familiar face comforting him when he came through

btw the fact that the small paper edition of the irish independent carried this accident as a sensationalist news story rather than as part of a sports story shows the level of ignorance among their editors. you would swear it was a road traffic accident and not an unforunate an regretable, but all the same possible part of the rigours of an international bike race. The Irish Times gave much better perspective of the incident I felt, at least they kept it in the sports section.

emtroche

emtroche wrote: »

Heres a map of tomorrows stage (stage 7). Some people might find it a bit handier than the manual directions.

Bear in mind it's unofficial but i'm fairly certain it's accurate!

http://ridewithgps.com/routes/81193

Heres the map for Sundays (Stage 8).

Hope it helps because sundays stage is relatively complicated.

http://ridewithgps.com/routes/81295

gman2k

I was up on Corrabut today myself (taking photos) will try and up them somewhere tomorrow - some climb, some pain for the riders!

ryan_sherlock

A fun day today - that climb was steep, was wishing I had a 25 on the bike.

Blog post up for the day: http://ryansherlock.blogspot.com/2010/05/2010-fbd-ras-stage-6.html

Highest 20 minute NP wattage in the last few weeks today - funny what 6 days of racing does to you

cyclingphotos

http://www.fbdinsuranceras.com/event/fbdras_651.shtml

http://www.fbdinsuranceras.com/event/fbdras_652.shtml

for Photos try www.irishcyclingphotos.com

Rgds

Barry :)

eoghan95

does anybody know what time the ras enetrs wicklow at please becouse i want to build my ride around it