If There Was A Referendum on Abortion Tomorrow, How Would You Vote?

CorsetIsTight

segaBOY wrote: »

One could argue you are essentially killing a child if you are allowing late term abortions-where are you going to draw the line?
.

I'm not drawing the line anywhere. You are drawing a line by saying that late term abortions are essentially killing a child, whereas earlier ones are not.

starbelgrade

CorsetIsTight wrote: »

I'm not drawing the line anywhere. You are drawing a line by saying that late term abortions are essentially killing a child, whereas earlier ones are not.

A fetus cannot survive outside the womb before 23 weeks, after which point, it's chances of survival are greater the longer the pregnancy goes on.

Whilst I understand the argument, that any abortion is much the same, no matter what the time period, and in some ways agree with that, I don't see too many reasons for allowing it beyond the point in which a fetus could not survive on it's own if it were to be born prematurely.

FouxDaFaFa

Interesting thread. I actually didn't vote because I didn't feel my opinion was represented. (No offence Starbelgrade). I would be somewhere in the middle ground.

I'm not religious but the idea of abortion being widely available (and the reality of abortion clinics springing up) makes me uncomfortable. Currently in the UK, you can have an abortion up to 24 weeks. I was born prematurely at 28 weeks and am here typing this today. So I cannot help but think that these babies have the potential to live a worthwhile life like me. The only difference between them and me (someone who grew up healthy and could feel emotion and pain when born) is one month. Obviously, it is a personal bias.

I wish I had a decisive point really. I personally do not think I could have an abortion but it would be ridiculous of me to presume I should be allowed to tell other women what to think. But there has to be a point where the rights of the child are taken into account as well as the mother's.

Sorry this is so incoherent, there are so many issues to think about with a topic like this.

segaBOY

CorsetIsTight wrote: »

I'm not drawing the line anywhere. You are drawing a line by saying that late term abortions are essentially killing a child, whereas earlier ones are not.

So do you think an abortion should be carried out at 36 weeks if a mother wished to do so?

CorsetIsTight

segaBOY wrote: »

So do you think an abortion should be carried out at 36 weeks if a mother wished to do so?

No I don't.

The_Minister

starbelgrade wrote: »

A fetus cannot survive outside the womb before 23 weeks, after which point, it's chances of survival are greater the longer the pregnancy goes on.

Nitpick: Earliest ever was 21 weeks, 6 days - he is still alive and healthy.

It is possible and does happen that the baby's born before then survive - it is just very, very unlikely.

AgileMyth

Abortions for some...

Miniature American flags for others.

grenache

Wow - we'd have 119 dead children if some folk on here ever became parents*


*Not an opinion, merely an observation.

mise_me_fein1

Pro life....

I remember teaching in Spain and this one guy said his wife had 8 abortions. They never want kids and any time it got to that stage...abortion time.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Pro Choice here.

davyjose

I'm very, very, very wary of people using this as basically another form of contraception.
I'm against it, tbh, but I also believe as adults, we are responsible for our own lives. I also feel that sometimes, in the case of child rape, or severe problems with the baby, where the quality of life for the child/parents will be severely impeded, it's sometimes the better option.

So in that regard, pro-choice. But knowing society, it will be abused.

Edit: for that reason, I voted "Not sure" I'm not necessarily "for" abortion, but am pro-choice.

Optimalprimerib

snyper wrote: »

Epic fail.

Why?


Culchies drink well water.. you cant really tamper with that.

You'd be over run with much savages taking over dublin..

eh, oh wait....

What about when all the howeyas that migrate to muck savage land? They'd still manage to multiply.

Amazotheamazing

I'm anti-abortion, if that's the phrase you want to run with simply because every year medical science makes it possible for premature babies to live. Maybe 50 years ago being born at 24 weeks meant no chance of survival, now we now that that child does have a chance, however slight. I assume, perhaps incorrectly, that the viable age will continue to drop towards 18 weeks and lower, I mean, they've just made synthetic cells, someday in the distant future we might have the option of growing children in some weird sci-fi artificial womb. I just don't think we know enough about where life begins to be ok with anything other than the morning after pill and the contraceptive pill.

As an aside, I think every child in Ireland should receive proper sex-ed, condoms and the pill should be a lot cheaper.

Kasabian

mise_me_fein1 wrote: »

Pro life....

I remember teaching in Spain and this one guy said his wife had 8 abortions. They never want kids and any time it got to that stage...abortion time.

Thats what I was saying about abortion being a form of contraception to some people.

Didn't these people hear of the pill , condom or the tried and trusted rythnm method*

*sarcasm

Holsten

I'd vote to allow abortion.

philologos

Stinicker wrote: »

I don't think anyone takes abortion lightly and it is something the state should not interfere in what happens in the bedroom or the consequences thus of. Our ruling on abortion is not so much a government issue also as it is a hangover from days of our Catholic dictatorship oppression which saw even contraception and homosexuality banned.

I disagree here.

There are many pro-lifers from other belief systems other than Catholicism. Indeed, there are pro-lifers who are atheists and agnostics.

CorsetIsTight wrote: »

Why do my rights as a woman end at 12 weeks gestation...?

Is it a right to abort?

Abi

Stinicker wrote: »

I beleive firmly in the rights of the mother but think that abortion after 10 or 12 weeks should not be allowed. There should be proper councilling available to the misfortunate women in this sitatuion and aftercare facilities available.

^This.


Only would only agree with it if the pregnancy was terminated by this stage.

RocketFalls

Pro choice. I don't subscribe to the view that a neighbour doing something 'sinful' will lead to my home being destroyed by collateral damage when God sends down a cruise missile or locusts or whatever. I do think that the choice should only be allowed to be made very early in the pregnancy, before there's any chance of cognitive function.

Handsome Bob

I hate this debate, I really do, it only leaves me conflicted. I'm not religious so where I'm coming from is purely based on human rights.

On the one hand, the idea of abortion really doesn't sit well with me, but I can't make decisions for people. I would probably vote to legalise it in spite of my personal feelings on the subject simply because I can't force my beliefs on someone else.

On the other hand, I am only thinking about the mother, and not the life she is carrying. I am not interested in arguments about semantics, life is life to me, it's as simple as that (in my eyes of course). I can't help but think we're leaving a life defenceless.

Ultimately however, that is not my burden to carry, that is the responsibility of the mother (if she sees it as a burden, I'm not saying she has to see it as a burden). Putting myself in the shoes of the religious I can understand where pro-lifers are coming from on this. When they die they probably think they'll be met with an angry God asking them why they chose to abandon his children to death.

The_Minister wrote: »

Postscript: Isn't it funny how writing down your thoughts can help solidify them, and bring you to realisations that you would otherwise never have reached?
I don't think I would date a girl who had had an abortion, and I don't think I could forgive a girl who aborted my child without telling me.
I never realised how much I dislike abortion until wrote this post.

Not sure about the dating aspect, it would depend on the circumstance and how much I feel about her.

In regards to my own child, 100% agreed.

IT-Guy

The_Minister wrote: »

I'll be honest, I've always gone back and forth (I can't spell vacillated ) on the question of abortion.

On the one hand, I believe in free choice, and it is wrong to force a woman to go through with a pregnancy, not on economic grounds (there was a US study recently that showed that outcomes for single mothers were not significantly lower than those who weren't, accounting for economic status), but rather on her right to bodily integrity (I am aware of the cheekiness of justifying abortion on the grounds of a right which originated in a Catholic Encyclical:p).

On the other hand, abortion makes me queasy in a way which drug-taking, prostitution, sado-masochism or any other liberal-conservative issue do not. The feeling is strongest when I think of late term abortions (I cannot accept that a nine-month old isn't a baby just because it is separated from the world by a thin layer of blood and flesh), but even on early term abortions, I get the creeps.
I am an athiest, but something in me says that something gains value just from being human, without any need for thought or consciousness to back it up - otherwise there can be no real objection to killing the severely mentally disabled, if they are so mentally damaged as to be practically insentient.

It's one of those things where, if the vote came up, I'd probably vote for it, but would detest the practice of it, and support any measures to reduce its incidence.

Postscript: Isn't it funny how writing down your thoughts can help solidify them, and bring you to realisations that you would otherwise never have reached?
I don't think I would date a girl who had had an abortion, and I don't think I could forgive a girl who aborted my child without telling me.
I never realised how much I dislike abortion until wrote this post.

I'm pro choice after years of having guilt tripping, anti abortionists shoving their views down my throat via the popular Catholic mindset of assuming they can tell other people how to live their lives and what they can/can't do with their bodies. Took a hard lesson for me to realise how totally insensitive it can be:

I've bolded the part above that rings home the most for me. I was going out with a girl from Donaghmede who had a 5 year old son at the time, lovely happy kid and I got on well with both him and his father. Me and the ex were driving somewhere and the issue of abortion came up, I went on a bit of a rant about the rights of the child to life etc and I cringe now thinking about it. She stayed kinda quiet but just said that people are different and I thought no more of it. A couple of weeks later we were out and she was very quiet and said she wanted to talk so we went for a walk. She told me how she got pregnant by the father of her kid again after a few too many drinks one Xmas, a few years before we met. She couldn't stand her ex and didn't want another kid by him and was struggling financially with raising 1 child so her and the ex went for a trip to London and she had an abortion. There are fewer moments in my life when I realised how arrogant I'd been to assume I should be allowed tell any woman what she can or can't do with her body. The moral righteousness of my stance wasn't long being dissolved by the realities of modern life. It also made me reassess whether I'd have gone out with her if I'd known this about her. The more mature me now would say yes, the me back then probably no.

IMO, making abortion legal in this country doesn't mean every woman will want one come an unplanned pregnancy. It means that there is a choice there if she wants it, that choice isn't an easy one to make despite pro-choicers being portrayed as cold hearted baby killers. Abortion should be made available as a service by the HSE as the current "out of sight out of mind" approach is wrong. Dedicated, independent clinics would have too high a profile until the stigma of abortion is tempered by reality.

rovert

Where is the couldnt vote because Pro-Lifers wearing dead baby placards are blocking the enterance option?

WindSock

Do you think we will get another referendum on this soon?

It's been almost 30 years since the last one.

punchdrunk

Pro choice

Prof.Badass

Hank_Jones wrote: »

Never heard the term Anti-Choice before.

It's Pro-Life.

The terms "pro-life" and "pro-choice" are incredibly spun terms .

Also "pro-life" covers a lot more than just abortion (which i am against), such as the use of human embryos (which i am all for). There's actually a decent amount of people who are anti-abortion but not pro-life (such as myself ).

One thing that really annoys me is how pro-choicers try and make abortion look like a personal freedom argument (i am a staunch libertarian). This is an issue outside of personal freedom. The phrase "do what she likes with her own body" especially gets me- IT'S NOT HER BODY!!! The fetus is clearly a seperate organism from the mother. Don't even try this scientifically flawed argument.

One thing that amuses me is how people go on about cases of "rape and incest", the argument for abortion in cases of rape is fair enough, but the one for cases of incest........it's the just the way incest is labelled as seperate from rape. Surely incest would be rape? Unless you're talking about consensual incest, in which case does the sick cúnt really deserve any special sympathy?

Mrmoe

I would vote against introducing abortion here at any stage post implantation unless there is a clear and immediate threat to the life of the mother. In the latter case the decision should be made between medical professionals and the mother. People may see this as being anti choice but there are other choices available without this:

1. Contraception
2. Adoption
3. Raising the child

pow wow

Pro-choice. My moral compass (or lack of :P) shouldn't dictate anyone's right to an abortion. Judge not etc etc.

philologos

pow wow wrote: »

Pro-choice. My moral compass (or lack of :P) shouldn't dictate anyone's right to an abortion. Judge not etc etc.

Relativism can only go so far:

My moral compass shouldn't dictate anyone's right to steal, rape, or kill. Judge not etc etc.

pow wow

Not really an argument I'm going to get into. The thread is about abortion. :rolleyes:

philologos

I'm merely suggesting that the relativist position of saying, if you find abortion right, good for you, and if you find abortion wrong, good for you.

Let's just legalise it and you guys can just shut up is essentially the argument, which is about as much dictating as anything else.

kiwi123

pro choice, especially if someone is raped, but should't get to a point where it's considered a form of contraception