If There Was A Referendum on Abortion Tomorrow, How Would You Vote?

Hannibal Smith

Jakkass wrote: »

I don't consider there to be much difference between abortion-by-choice and infanticide. Just to clarify.



Your post is a bit contradictory.


Abortion isn't the only option. Neither is keeping the child. The adoptive services are also there, and it leaves the child with a chance to be with a loving family that really cares for them rather than being denied their basic right to life.

What about a necessary abortion? Is there difference between that and infanticide in your opinion?

Have you had a child? Do you know what it does to your body? Why should a woman go through this when she doesn't want to?

cynder

Smart Bug wrote: »

Also @ Grindewald - did I see a post saying you wish women who had abortions should themselves have their brains extracted? Pro-life eh? :rolleyes:

Who the hell said i was pro life? I agree with euthanasia and assisted suicide! oh and the death sentence!!!!!!!


I'm dead against abortion, i think its only a selfish woman who aborts her baby....

DrumSteve

im sure someone has said something about miniture american flags already so ill leave it out.

anyway i voted no.

JP Liz V1

I voted no

Hannibal Smith

Smart Bug wrote: »

Also @ Grindewald - did I see a post saying you wish women who had abortions should themselves have their brains extracted? Pro-life eh? :rolleyes:

Sorry to intrude, but this is what really confuses me. On the one hand you have people who are against abortion because of concern for the feotus, but then on the other hand you have the absolute disregard for the health and well being of the woman.

Smart Bug

grindelwald wrote: »

Who the hell said i was pro life? I agree with euthanasia and assisted suicide! oh and the death sentence!!!!!!!


I'm dead against abortion, i think its only a selfish woman who aborts her baby....

You're serious? You're not trolling? Really?!

(there's no raised eyebrow smiley)

ash23

Jakkass wrote: »

Your post is a bit contradictory.

Not at all. A foetus grows into a child. I wouldn't need to provide a foetus with warmth, food (it's parasitic so will take from me whether I want to give or not). I don't need to provide an education for a foetus. But odds are, unless I abort that foetus it will become a child and will require me to provide those things.

Abortion isn't the only option. Neither is keeping the child. The adoptive services are also there, and it leaves the child with a chance to be with a loving family that really cares for them rather than being denied their basic right to life.

Agreed, there are other options but I still think it's the womans right to choose which option she takes.

I never considered adoption. For me, I knew I would be able to have an abortion as I believe it to be a foetus, a cluster of cells, not a baby. If I grew that foetus for ten months, felt it kick and move and grow, went through labour and heard it cry, then it's a baby. And I couldn't give my child away.


I admire anyone who can proceed with adoption but no, I don't think it's a viable option for most.

Hannibal Smith

grindelwald wrote: »

Who the hell said i was pro life? I agree with euthanasia and assisted suicide! oh and the death sentence!!!!!!!


I'm dead against abortion, i think its only a selfish woman who aborts her baby....

I doubt they'll have much of an opinion about you too

Smart Bug

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

Sorry to intrude, but this is what really confuses me. On the one hand you have people who are against abortion because of concern for the feotus, but then on the other hand you have the absolute disregard for the health and well being of the woman.

Ayuh. There's a serious need for a study on pro-lifers & their opinions (especially the religious ones) and other misogynist views they may hold. Imo it can just seem like another reason to hate/alienate women.

cynder

Its not me lying and covering up the fact i had an abortion. Im not the one pretending it didnt happen. Im not the one keeping a deep dark secret from my family because they would be ashamed of me.

Im here for the ones they dont give a dam about, the ones who dont have a voice, the ones who are sliced and diced alive inside there mommys. Im here to say they they feel pain, they are human, they have eyes, ears, nose, mouth, legs, arms, fingers, toes and a heart that beats.

Smart Bug

grindelwald wrote: »

Its not me lying and covering up the fact i had an abortion. Im not the one pretending it didnt happen. Im not the one keeping a deep dark secret from my family because they would be ashamed of me.

Im here for the ones they dont give a dam about, the ones who dont have a voice, the ones who are sliced and diced alive inside there mommys. Im here to say they they feel pain, they are human, they have eyes, ears, nose, mouth, legs, arms, fingers, toes and a heart that beats.

So do those on death row, or in euthanasia clinics.

cynder

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

I doubt they'll have much of an opinion about you too

As if i care. I already think they are as bad as murderers, you cant get much worse than that. Oh and the ones who have more than 2 abortions would be in my books like serial baby killers.

drkpower

grindelwald wrote: »

Im here for the ones they dont give a dam about, the ones who dont have a voice, the ones who are sliced and diced alive inside there mommys. Im here to say they they feel pain, they are human, they have eyes, ears, nose, mouth, legs, arms, fingers, toes and a heart that beats.

If you are the only one who is 'here for them', they are fooked.....:D

cynder

Smart Bug wrote: »

So do those on death row, or in euthanasia clinics.

so?

Hannibal Smith

Smart Bug wrote: »

Ayuh. There's a serious need for a study on pro-lifers & their opinions (especially the religious ones) and other misogynist views they may hold. Imo it can just seem like another reason to hate/alienate women.

Definitely. I do think there is a misogynistic religious strand behind the anti abortion protestors. Some genuinely don't agree with it, that's fair enough it's not something to sing about from the rooftops. But some are so passionate in denouncing the woman that there's something more at the core of it than a dislike of what they're doing.

Hannibal Smith

grindelwald wrote: »

Its not me lying and covering up the fact i had an abortion. Im not the one pretending it didnt happen. Im not the one keeping a deep dark secret from my family because they would be ashamed of me.

Im here for the ones they dont give a dam about, the ones who dont have a voice, the ones who are sliced and diced alive inside there mommys. Im here to say they they feel pain, they are human, they have eyes, ears, nose, mouth, legs, arms, fingers, toes and a heart that beats.

Please educate yourself and stop trolling :rolleyes:

Hannibal Smith

grindelwald wrote: »

As if i care. I already think they are as bad as murderers, you cant get much worse than that. Oh and the ones who have more than 2 abortions would be in my books like serial baby killers.

you're embarrassing yourself now

Hannibal Smith

grindelwald wrote: »

so?

So you're quite happy to kill them, I think is the point the other poster was making

Hazlittle

From reading that last few pages it is clear that pro-choice peoples main motivation is greed and a twisted ideology.

Smart Bug

grindelwald wrote: »

so?

sigh


Do we really need to roll this one out?

ash23

The ironic thing is that keeping abortion illegal probably doesn't decrease the numer of Irish woman having them.

However it does mean they are unable to have early abortions between procedure (Irish women are not allowed to have early abortions in the UK) and the added cost of travelling means the abortion happens later rather than sooner, making the actual procedure more difficult and meaning that the foetus is furthur developed.

philologos

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

What about a necessary abortion? Is there difference between that and infanticide in your opinion?

What do you consider as necessary? - In Irish law it is permitted in the case of medical emergencies. Something which I would be in agreement with. It is better to save one life than lose two. That's as far as it goes.

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

Have you had a child? Do you know what it does to your body? Why should a woman go through this when she doesn't want to?

I've heard this line of argument before. IMO, I still defend the rights of the child to live, and I support the rights of the mother in every respect apart from in denying another person their rights.

Many women are pro-life also.

cynder

drkpower wrote: »

If you are the only one who is 'here for them', they are fooked.....:D

Well the are many more that want them dead. Im not a one man army. I just putting down what i think, that women who abort are no worse than murders, they are the same.

Im not here to stop people getting an abortion after all its their choice, i just so happen not to agree with it and have stated why.


Some people are that into killing babies they have to pick on every comment made to make themselves look better and support the killing innocent babies, sometimes in the most horrific way (slicing and dicing).

I am well within my rights to disagree with abortion just as women are well within their rights to get an abortion (in the uk anyway).

cynder

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

So you're quite happy to kill them, I think is the point the other poster was making

YES!

Cant really go into the in's and out's of it as it will change the topic.

efb

If I could I'd abort Catholic Dogma, but sure, such is life.

I promise to do all in my power never to do anything that could lead to an abortion, but my actions are just as henios apparently...

Abortions for some, sun apparitions for others...

cynder

ash23 wrote: »

The ironic thing is that keeping abortion illegal probably doesn't decrease the numer of Irish woman having them.

However it does mean they are unable to have early abortions between procedure (Irish women are not allowed to have early abortions in the UK) and the added cost of travelling means the abortion happens later rather than sooner, making the actual procedure more difficult and meaning that the foetus is furthur developed.

Poor pets, should have used a contraceptive and be thankful they didn't get AIDS instead.

Smart Bug

grindelwald wrote: »

Poor pets, should have used a contraceptive and be thankful they didn't get AIDS instead.

My, you've seriously got your hate on haven't you?

DrumSteve

grindelwald wrote: »

YES!

Cant really go into the in's and out's of it as it will change the topic.

tbh honest trying to kill women (if i get you correctly) who have or procure abortions doesn't solve anything.

what needs to happen is that women are made aware of every available option to them. Abortion doesnt have to be the only choice (in fact id go so far as to say it shouldn't be one unless the baby is an absolute direct threat to the mothers life).

There are plenty of capable parents out there who would love a child but cant have one.

I think that if you blind yourself into thinking it is just a mass of cells then your taking away from the fact you are killing something. which is pretty sad. Abortion does not equal birth control. Abortion is prevention of life.

ash23

grindelwald wrote: »

Poor pets, should have used a contraceptive and be thankful they didn't get AIDS instead.

Ah I love the OTT nonsense. It's hilarious.

Yes, I am down on my hands and knees every day alternating between flagellating myself for having sex and praising Jeebus that I didn't get AIDS.



Of course everyone who has had unprotected sex is careless with contraception and their sexual health. Silly little girls! :rolleyes:

efb

Do you know the statistical likelyhood of getting AIDS (HIV) from unprotected hetrosexual vaginal intercourse?

More likely to spot a virgin in Mayo...

philologos

efb wrote: »

If I could I'd abort Catholic Dogma, but sure, such is life.

What about pro-lifers who are atheist, agnostic, Buddhist, Hindu, Jewish, Sikh, Jain, Protestant, Orthodox, Muslim, and so on?

Should we do away with every demographic of people that contain pro-lifers?

efb

Not at all, just the extremest views, I don't advocate killing anyone!!!

philologos

Is it really "extreme" to suggest that the unborn should be allowed to live?

cynder

Smart Bug wrote: »

My, you've seriously got your hate on haven't you?

Im as much against it as you are for it.

efb

To Refer to those that have abortions as murderers is, to enforce your beliefs on others that have no wish to share them would be to.

Smart Bug

Jakkass wrote: »

Is it really "extreme" to suggest that the unborn should be allowed to live?

Of course not. Depends on how you say/rationalise it of course.

Is it really "extreme" to say that people should have a choice?

efb

Jakkass wrote: »

Is it really "extreme" to suggest that the unborn should be allowed to live?

And if was a suggestion that would be fine... Dictats are an entirely different matter!

Smart Bug

grindelwald wrote: »

Im as much against it as you are for it.

And this you know how? I haven't stated my ideas beyond my support for the right to choose.

Hannibal Smith

Jakkass wrote: »

What do you consider as necessary? - In Irish law it is permitted in the case of medical emergencies. Something which I would be in agreement with. It is better to save one life than lose two. That's as far as it goes.



I've heard this line of argument before. IMO, I still defend the rights of the child to live, and I support the rights of the mother in every respect apart from in denying another person their rights.

Many women are pro-life also.

That is what I meant by a necessary abortion, one which is necessary to save the life of the mother, or where as regards the case a couple of years ago where the child's skull hadn't properly formed. My point was, that they still abort the feotus the same way.

You didn't answer my second question

philologos

I dealt with it sufficiently. It's a fallacious argument.

cynder

Smart Bug wrote: »

And this you know how? I haven't stated my ideas beyond my support for the right to choose.

But if anyone disagrees you jump down their thoat!

Smart Bug

grindelwald wrote: »

But if anyone disagrees you jump down their thoat!

Only when sensationalist/religious/contradictory statements were borught into it.

I'm the police for those things you see.

philologos

Smart Bug wrote: »

Only when sensationalist/religious/contradictory statements were borught into it.

I'm the police for those things you see.

Actually, if you read back through the comments and compare them, there is a good case to be made that most of the sensationalism and contradiction has arisen in the pro-choice crowd.

cynder

Smart Bug wrote: »

Only when sensationalist/religious/contradictory statements were borught into it.

I'm the police for those things you see.

Everyone has a right to an opinion!


ive never been baptised!


babies get sliced and diced that's abortion, i'm not sensationalising it, its fact.

Hannibal Smith

grindelwald wrote: »

Poor pets, should have used a contraceptive and be thankful they didn't get AIDS instead.

*mustn't feed the trolls, mustn'd feed the trolls*:rolleyes:

Hannibal Smith

Jakkass wrote: »

I dealt with it sufficiently. It's a fallacious argument.

That would be a no then

Hannibal Smith

grindelwald wrote: »

But if anyone disagrees you jump down their thoat!

as opposed to the multiple exclamation calm stance I suppose

Hannibal Smith

Jakkass wrote: »

Actually, if you read back through the comments and compare them, there is a good case to be made that most of the sensationalism and contradiction has arisen in the pro-choice crowd.

*face palm*

UnknownSpecies

People should be able to choose

efb

grindelwald wrote: »

Everyone has a right to an opinion!


ive never been baptised!


cells get sliced and diced that's abortion, i'm not sensationalising it, its fact.

ftp