strike action is called for by the union in Teva.

dayshah

ryanf1 wrote: »

Alot of staff are not allowed join the union, its not their own choice.

Who doesn't allow them?

StarDust69r

my bf was supposed to be made PERMENANT about 2 years ago. they promised him and even though he works really hard they want to leave him go??? its not about the empolyees being unsatisfied with the redundancy, its about the company acting like (OCK SUCKERS. he shouldn't have to worry about losing his job because he's working there long enough to be made permanent but they LIED and tell him he his losing the job he desperatly needs by a fu(king email???? WTF? can't even be bothered to tell them in fu(king person. bull**** it what I say.

19.5V

I believe that TEVA decided to shut part of its manufacturing due to high costs of doing business in this wonderful country, not just labour costs but they were specific in stating that the costs of doing business, ie legal costs, power supply, telephone and broadband, and the unessential essential self feeding monster IBEC and other rent seeking services, were prohibitive.

I can understand the anger and frustration that the workers feel as I have been through this myself.
I think however that the real problem is this country and the elitism that has all but destroyed it in its rip off approach.
Your union should be fighting the root cause of the reduction in its workforce, fight the rip-off-merchants. In this climate no redundancy package is a good one, having said that I hope all works out well for those about to be made redundant and those who remain in the workforce

Yes Boss

19.5V wrote: »

I believe that TEVA decided to shut part of its manufacturing due to high costs of doing business in this wonderful country, not just labour costs but they were specific in stating that the costs of doing business, ie legal costs, power supply, telephone and broadband, and the unessential essential self feeding monster IBEC and other rent seeking services, were prohibitive.

I can understand the anger and frustration that the workers feel as I have been through this myself.
I think however that the real problem is this country and the elitism that has all but destroyed it in its rip off approach.
Your union should be fighting the root cause of the reduction in its workforce, fight the rip-off-merchants. In this climate no redundancy package is a good one, having said that I hope all works out well for those about to be made redundant and those who remain in the workforce

What have IBEC got to do with the cost of production here in Ireland. You mention rip-off-merchants but you haven't specified who you are talking about. Maybe we should start with the bloated/over paid public service/ semi-state bodies (like ESB). The costs in Ireland are indirect taxes to support the above.

Let's take the ESB - If you are looking for an upgrade in your supply here in Ireland it will cost in the region of €40,000.0 to €100,000.00, for the ESB to install a new sub-station. In American their equivalent will ask you how much extra power do you need and they will supply it at no cost with the understanding that a factory requiring more electricity will have a higher bill which is a win-win situation. However, in Ireland we skin you at every stage!!!!

19.5V

Yes Boss wrote: »

What have IBEC got to do with the cost of production here in Ireland. You mention rip-off-merchants but you haven't specified who you are talking about. Maybe we should start with the bloated/over paid public service/ semi-state bodies (like ESB). The costs in Ireland are indirect taxes to support the above.

Let's take the ESB - If you are looking for an upgrade in your supply here in Ireland it will cost in the region of €40,000.0 to €100,000.00, for the ESB to install a new sub-station. In American their equivalent will ask you how much extra power do you need and they will supply it at no cost with the understanding that a factory requiring more electricity will have a higher bill which is a win-win situation. However, in Ireland we skin you at every stage!!!!

aaaa...... i did mention power supply, phones and broadband, did you not see this in my post?

I mention IBEC for the unnecessary regulations that they indirectly support, I was at a few seminars held by IBEC and I firmly believe that in order to survive they thrive on the unnecessary, adding a cost to any company who must comply with the constant updates to regulations, business regulation updates in Ireland must rival Microsoft Vista updates.
IBEC dont fight against regulation, they offset regulation by making sure the company is compliant.

IBEC is a typical "rent seeking" organisation.

urhavinalaugh

19.5V wrote: »

aaaa...... i did mention power supply, phones and broadband, did you not see this in my post?

I mention IBEC for the unnecessary regulations that they indirectly support, I was at a few seminars held by IBEC and I firmly believe that in order to survive they thrive on the unnecessary, adding a cost to any company who must comply with the constant updates to regulations, business regulation updates in Ireland must rival Microsoft Vista updates.
IBEC dont fight against regulation, they offset regulation by making sure the company is compliant.

IBEC is a typical "rent seeking" organisation.

The reason its going to close is ,unit costs in the manufacturing of tablets ,we can make a tablet lets say for 10 cent, and in Hungary the cost maybe as low as say 5 cents, so in simple terms its GREED nothing else , the biggest factor in that is the crazy salaries that Managers here recieve , the basic wage in Teva for process operator is in no way the as high as several other Pharmaceutical plants in Ireland.

19.5V

urhavinalaugh wrote: »

The reason its going to close is ,unit costs in the manufacturing of tablets ,we can make a tablet lets say for 10 cent, and in Hungary the cost maybe as low as say 5 cents, so in simple terms its GREED nothing else , the biggest factor in that is the crazy salaries that Managers here recieve , the basic wage in Teva for process operator is in no way the as high as several other Pharmaceutical plants in Ireland.

Greed or another term could be maximising profit.
The costs that you point out in your post does include the "rent seekers" that pray on business and individuals, you have to work hard to pay these rent seekers and hold down your job, the greed of the irish system and government has outweighed the greed of any employer in this country.

we replaced the english landlord with a worse cute hoorisim, an irish landlord

Yes Boss

19.5V wrote: »

Greed or another term could be maximising profit.
The costs that you point out in your post does include the "rent seekers" that pray on business and individuals, you have to work hard to pay these rent seekers and hold down your job, the greed of the irish system and government has outweighed the greed of any employer in this country.

we replaced the english landlord with a worse cute hoorisim, an irish landlord

Unfortunately, the rent requested was normally to cover the exorbitant price paid for the unit in the first instance. That was made worse by Government promoted rent reviews that only went in one direction (up). The rising costs in Ireland were driven by the Irish Government with pro-cyclical economic policies. That is why we are where we are!!

19.5V

Yes Boss wrote: »

Unfortunately, the rent requested was normally to cover the exorbitant price paid for the unit in the first instance. That was made worse by Government promoted rent reviews that only went in one direction (up). The rising costs in Ireland were driven by the Irish Government with pro-cyclical economic policies. That is why we are where we are!!

I am using the words rent seekers as a phrase to catagorise systems that are set up to extract money from a business or individual

i.e. Auctioneers, if I want to buy or sell house I (more or less) need to engage an auctioneer........think about it.........., I need to pay someone a percentage to sell or buy something that I own, or want to own.............auctioneers are "rent seekers"

B.E.R
N.C.T
are the latest rent seekers to set up in Ireland, sorry for the content drift folks

jay.i.am

Most of the products manufactured in Waterford are going to eastern european sites or third party sites in India unless you work for nothing there is no way you can compete with labour cost in these countries.Anyway the main issue now is not that its closing or even the proposed 8 weeks but the refusal to recognise seniorority to a man. Having worked in both sites the companies stance of it being a skills issue is a blatant lie. There has been a constant flow of people between the 2 sites to suit buisness needs over the years. This announcement was made last september and the companys refusal to sit down with the union and engage in a method for a smooth transfer of people with service has us where we are today.Its always been a case of last in first out regardless of what site you were working why should it be any different now.

19.5V

jay.i.am wrote: »

Most of the products manufactured in Waterford are going to eastern european sites or third party sites in India unless you work for nothing there is no way you can compete with labour cost in these countries.Anyway the main issue now is not that its closing or even the proposed 8 weeks but the refusal to recognise seniorority to a man. Having worked in both sites the companies stance of it being a skills issue is a blatant lie. There has been a constant flow of people between the 2 sites to suit buisness needs over the years. This announcement was made last september and the companys refusal to sit down with the union and engage in a method for a smooth transfer of people with service has us where we are today.Its always been a case of last in first out regardless of what site you were working why should it be any different now.

I admire principals, for what are we without them.
I wish some of your fellow countrymen maintained basic human and business principals.


Fight for your rights.

tom111

Company are posting another letter to union members, expect it tomorrow will we finally get some answers or more lies........

Creamsoda

Oh I'm sure it will be another vague misleading letter that tells us nothing and just confuses us even more. That's wat the company want, divide and conquer seems to be their tactic and unfortunately it seems to be working.

Insane1

Are you people sick in the head or what???

I worked in the glass for 12 years and havn't received a cent!! 8weeks?? Seniority isn't going to matter a damn to the 300 and odd people signing on when the place closes is it??

You certainly won't be getting any support from me or a lot of the people I worked with if ye decide to reject it. Letters of intimidation you say? Gift horse in the mouth I say.. Wake up and try and inject a dose of reality....

jay.i.am

Insane1 wrote: »

Are you people sick in the head or what???

I worked in the glass for 12 years and havn't received a cent!! 8weeks?? Seniority isn't going to matter a damn to the 300 and odd people signing on when the place closes is it??

You certainly won't be getting any support from me or a lot of the people I worked with if ye decide to reject it. Letters of intimidation you say? Gift horse in the mouth I say.. Wake up and try and inject a dose of reality....

And how do you suggest they choose that 300 have a big game of musical chairs and if your left standing when the music stops your out???8 weeks is a good deal if you want to go but only if you want it.It would be very easy to get bitter if your there say 10yrs and someone with 3yrs service keeps there job.Bitterness now theres a feeling you must surely identify with!

urhavinalaugh

Insane1 wrote: »

Are you people sick in the head or what???

I worked in the glass for 12 years and havn't received a cent!! 8weeks?? Seniority isn't going to matter a damn to the 300 and odd people signing on when the place closes is it??

You certainly won't be getting any support from me or a lot of the people I worked with if ye decide to reject it. Letters of intimidation you say? Gift horse in the mouth I say.. Wake up and try and inject a dose of reality....

Well said ,i would be embarrassed to tell the Glass former workers a package like this was offered and they rejected it .

Hopefully the workers will wake up to reality and the times we live in .:eek:

Yes Boss

jay.i.am wrote: »

And how do you suggest they choose that 300 have a big game of musical chairs and if your left standing when the music stops your out???8 weeks is a good deal if you want to go but only if you want it.It would be very easy to get bitter if your there say 10yrs and someone with 3yrs service keeps there job.Bitterness now theres a feeling you must surely identify with!

You retain the people who are most competent which don't always equate to the most senior! If you were there only 3 years but performed much better than a person who was there 10 years - you wouldn't believe that is fair either!!

urhavinalaugh

jay.i.am wrote: »

And how do you suggest they choose that 300 have a big game of musical chairs and if your left standing when the music stops your out???8 weeks is a good deal if you want to go but only if you want it.It would be very easy to get bitter if your there say 10yrs and someone with 3yrs service keeps there job.Bitterness now theres a feeling you must surely identify with!

Thats right well said 8 weeks is a good deal ,too right .!!:D

Insane1

jay.i.am wrote: »

And how do you suggest they choose that 300 have a big game of musical chairs and if your left standing when the music stops your out???8 weeks is a good deal if you want to go but only if you want it.It would be very easy to get bitter if your there say 10yrs and someone with 3yrs service keeps there job.Bitterness now theres a feeling you must surely identify with!

I drink with a couple of employees of TEVA and have seen some of the communications that were sent out. My understanding is that 45 people will be transferring to the other plant based on seniority. This is in black and white signed by the company. Therefore the company has recognised seniority has it not? This with 8 weeks is an incredible outcome for the union for which its members should be proud.

Do you think that an organisation the size of TEVA dont have a contingency plan in the event of a strike? These people are experts at it..
Do you not think they might have been stock piling months worth of stock to keep their customers supplied in the event of a strike??
How many months does that give them to sit pretty?
How many months would you be willing to stand outside??
How many months will you allow your wife and children be affected for??
How much money will you lose if they decide that the stock pile is big enough to have enough time to move that part of the business abroad too?
If you do get full seniority after a strike, do you think they will invest another cent here in Waterford? The fate of TEVA inhalers in Waterford would well and truly be sealed including those very people that were transferred...

Don't go down the same Greed path as the Company... Accept the deal and put that place behind you, for if you dont I fear nobody will be behind you....

Bduffman

Who honestly thinks that the union are insisting on seniority on a matter of principle? It just so happens that the majority of the union committee are solid dose with long service. They are only looking after themselves. They can hardly get themselves to look at an Inhalations Operator in the eye who they know will lose their job if full seniority is enforced.
Selection should be based on skills first, ability second & all other things being equal, seniority. You can't transfer over 300 people in one go & expect the business to go on as normal.
There have been a lot of blatant lies on this thread about the redundancy as well.
The 8 weeks will be paid if the agreement is accepted.
Seniority will still be respected if the agreement is accepted. It will have even more relevance when there is only an Inhalations plant.
The company is complying with all the LRC recommendations if the agreement is accepted.
Temporaries are still temporaries because THEIR UNION DIDN'T FIGHT THEIR CASE. Thats supposed to be the unions job - to look after its members - no? Its no good crying about it now & blaming the company.

tom111

8 weeks is a good financial package major problem is people who want to leave arent been allowed, while other who want to stay are been forced out, there is more going on than just seniority as company do have a hidden agenda, All should be revealed in union meeting sun morning, unfortunately non unionised member are caught in middle, as for glass factory workers unfortunatley company went into administration so there was no money to pay out, the check would only have bounced, id be bitter if i was you, but this aint glass factory,and i have never heard loosing your job in these times as looking a gift horse in the mouth, and the figure to move is not 300, alot of non unionised office staff are in this fixgure, it really is only about 60 to 70 people.

Insane1

tom111 wrote: »

it really is only about 60 to 70 people.

With 45 already transferring you are happy for 250+ people to loose thousands in the package for 15-25 people?

Isn't collateral damage supposed to work the other way??

jay.i.am

Insane1 wrote: »

With 45 already transferring you are happy for 250+ people to loose thousands in the package for 15-25 people?

Isn't collateral damage supposed to work the other way??

You seem happy for a certain set of workers to lose their jobs but not another set.I wonder do you have a vested intrest?
Do your drinking mates work in the inhaler plant and are you happy to recommend the deal to them or are your mates staff?
Either way everyone union member will have a vote sunday and whatever way it goes ill accept it and weigh up my options then.

Insane1

You seem happy for a certain set of workers to lose their jobs but not another set.

Isn't this happening anyway??

My mates are unionised and have 5 or 6 years service in the tablet one so they are at the mercy of whatever way the vote goes. I don't see how I could have a vested interest (unless you call a free night out when they get the money a vested interest! lol)....Merely calling it how I see it....I might also add that most of what I have said here is their words and not mine....

tom111

Bduffman wrote: »

Who honestly thinks that the union are insisting on seniority on a matter of principle? It just so happens that the majority of the union committee are solid dose with long service. They are only looking after themselves. They can hardly get themselves to look at an Inhalations Operator in the eye who they know will lose their job if full seniority is enforced.
Selection should be based on skills first, ability second & all other things being equal, seniority. You can't transfer over 300 people in one go & expect the business to go on as normal.
There have been a lot of blatant lies on this thread about the redundancy as well.
The 8 weeks will be paid if the agreement is accepted.
Seniority will still be respected if the agreement is accepted. It will have even more relevance when there is only an Inhalations plant.
The company is complying with all the LRC recommendations if the agreement is accepted.
Temporaries are still temporaries because THEIR UNION DIDN'T FIGHT THEIR CASE. Thats supposed to be the unions job - to look after its members - no? Its no good crying about it now & blaming the company.

in tablet plant the union commitee are the senior people who will have the choice to take package or transfer if offer is accepted so if anything they have most to lose, so you have to question why they want it rejectd

Gogirl2010

Insane1 wrote: »

With 45 already transferring you are happy for 250+ people to loose thousands in the package for 15-25 people?

Isn't collateral damage supposed to work the other way??

I totally agree, this is what's happening. That extra money would buy them time when they leave but people are being bullied into rejecting and going on strike. Union haven't put anything down on paper in 9 months about what they were asking for so no-one knows exactly what they want as it seems to change all the time. Was 39 people to transfer but when company gave 45 union immediately jumped up to 75, joke. If people don't reject, the reps are frightening people to say that they'll have no union as they'll all stand down. I would say leave them because if there is a strike they should hang their heads in shame as they will cause the ruin of so many more people after TEVA is closed, which will happen sooner because of it.

Yes Boss

Gogirl2010 wrote: »

I totally agree, this is what's happening. That extra money would buy them time when they leave but people are being bullied into rejecting and going on strike. Union haven't put anything down on paper in 9 months about what they were asking for so no-one knows exactly what they want as it seems to change all the time. Was 39 people to transfer but when company gave 45 union immediately jumped up to 75, joke. If people don't reject, the reps are frightening people to say that they'll have no union as they'll all stand down. I would say leave them because if there is a strike they should hang their heads in shame as they will cause the ruin of so many more people after TEVA is closed, which will happen sooner because of it.

Bloody Unions have helped to distroy our City!!!!!:mad:

Cabaal

Yes Boss wrote: »

You retain the people who are most competent which don't always equate to the most senior! If you were there only 3 years but performed much better than a person who was there 10 years - you wouldn't believe that is fair either!!

Fully agree, just because your there 10 years does not make you the most suitable for the job. Keeping people just because they work somewhere for years often creates a dead weight...look at the public sector as an example.

dayshah

As best I know, the idea of seniority was to ensure fairness. In general the more senior people are better, and so should get promotions and so on. This was considered preferable to favouritism.

I'm not in favour of seniority as a principle, but if its removed there must be a way to prevent favouritism. The best people should be kept, but if who is 'best' is solely left to management then they will keep the lick-arses.

As for the union representatives being more senior: its sort of like moaning about the city council. If they are so bad you don't have to vote for them and you can run for election yourself. Anyway the final decision will be left with the members in a secret ballot, so the choice is theirs.

If there is a strike will all TEVA be on strike or just one plant?

19.5V

Cabaal wrote: »

Fully agree, just because your there 10 years does not make you the most suitable for the job. Keeping people just because they work somewhere for years often creates a dead weight...look at the public sector as an example.

It is the responsibility of management to ensure that there is adequate training for their employees, this would ensure that the “dead weight” as you suggest, would not exist.
Thank god there are unions, the law of the land and the Labour Court is there to protect the worker from the law-of-the-jungle cowboys. If you are there for a few more years than someone else you have gained seniority, whether you agree with this or not it dosent matter. The labour court will favour seniority over big boot tactics.
Dead weight is the result of poor management.