Open Street Map expansion project

Alun

lamaq wrote: »

Thanks for the heads up on the new imagery. Does anyone know if Dublin will be re-done? The aerial photos look like they were done in mid-winter and are poor compared with what Google Maps has.

Also, when they get around to doing the remaining parts of Wicklow they could do with revisiting the upland areas around Lugnaquilla, if possible at a time of year and time of day when the sun is higher in the sky. There are huge patches of black where the sun is too low and it's all in shadow.

Although to be fair, other mountain ranges including the major ones on the west coast exhibit the same problem. The parts that aren't in shadow are great though.

Irish and Proud

lamaq wrote: »

Thanks for the heads up on the new imagery. Does anyone know if Dublin will be re-done? The aerial photos look like they were done in mid-winter and are poor compared with what Google Maps has.

...and with the M1 Airport to Balbriggan clearly under constuction - no, not the widening works, the M1 itself! :rolleyes::eek::rolleyes: - We're talking 2003 (might even be 2002) here! :eek::eek::eek:

The aerial view over Dublin (from Bing) would want to be updated very soon - Googlemaps aerial is around 2009-2010 with the M50 upgrade well under construction - even that's not good IMO. Apart from more remote areas, Openstreetmap is great IMO - especially for Dublin! Did you guys get to see Limericks Rossbrien Interchange (M7/N18/M20) on Bing's new aerial maps - I don't know about actually using it, but it looks good from the air!

Bring on the Dublin Updates - I'm fed up waiting for aerials of the completed M50 junctions (although the Palmerstown and Ballymount junctions are shown as completed on Googlemaps). The M50.ie site have bird's eye views of most upgraded junctions.

Sponge Bob

Alun wrote: »

Also, when they get around to doing the remaining parts of Wicklow they could do with revisiting the upland areas around Lugnaquilla, if possible at a time of year and time of day when the sun is higher in the sky.

They go for "leaf off" coverage see why here...next April would be the best time.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/02/idUS139658+02-Apr-2012+MW20120402

civis_liberalis

I've been filling out my local area since the new imagery became available.

Any idea why the "Food and Drink" tab wouldn't be showing up for me when I go to add local watering holes...?

You using Potlatch 2?

IrlJidel

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Local roads will either be Highway <> Unclassified ( if paved) or Highway <> Track (if gravel)

Paths will be highway track see this short guide.

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Ireland/Roads#Local_Roads

You forgot highway=tertiary

Local Primary Roads (L1000-L4999) will be highway=tertiary
Local Tertiary Roads (L9000-L99999) should be highway=unclassified
Local Secondary Roads ( L5000-L8999) is a judgement call, use highway=tertiary if you think it should be preferred over other highway=unclassified when routing, otherwise highway=unclassified


I don't use highway=track if is a public road.

see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Ireland/Roads#Highway

Anyone living in small villages or towns around the country, or those of you with a long daily commute, this will show you unmapped places that are setup as villages etc but with little or no data present

Unmapped villages & towns in OSM

The same for N Ireland

Courtesy of Pascal Neis

Click on any of the red dots to get the name

Some difference in the stats since the new imagery came up

Sponge Bob

Just so people know. The the three leading OSMers in Ireland, at present, are all Boards users and use their Boards names on OSM. These would be Mackerski (who started everything worthwhile) Irljidel who is the standards expert and Dacor who is the 'urban streetscape expert.

I am only a normal contributor who twiddles and fiddles on occasion.

If it comes to 'standards' always follow whatever Mackersi and Irljidel say.

This OSM 'stats' site is cool, eg

http://osmstats.altogetherlost.com/index.php?item=countries

Look what happened when the word got out about Bing.

http://osmstats.altogetherlost.com/index.php?item=countries&country=Ireland

Sponge Bob

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Dacor who is the 'urban streetscape expert.

eh, thanks I think but I'm a long way from being an expert. There are many others (who mainly hang out in the IRC channel) who have been at this way longer than I have.

I know a bit and know my way around the wiki but always glad to help out anyone if they're stuck on anything OSM related

Sponge Bob

Deleted User wrote: »

eh, thanks I think but I'm a long way from being an expert. There are many others (who mainly hang out in the IRC channel) who have been at this way longer than I have.

You have alot to do with Galway City looking like a collection of buildings and spaces in the last year instead of a grid of roads.

IrlJidel

I've been playing with making my own garmin map, which fixes a few bugs vs the one you can get on http://garmin.openstreetmap.nl/.

It also renders roads using a more Irish style.

http://dev2.openstreetmap.ie/garminmap/

The ga directory contains versions that favour name:ga (Irish language) names if they exist.

You can either install the gmapsupp.img directly on your device and/or install the exe so you can use on Basecamp or Mapsource. The gmapsupp.img already has a street search index built in.

I'll probably update every few days....

Sponge Bob

2 Interesting Mapping fragments for you from past Road Forum activity.

1. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=68208949 ( Correct Link seeing as they broke it is here http://archive.org/details/deviahiberniaroa00daggrich )
2. The Zoomable Map referred to in 1. (high res) http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33619456/johnston%20ireland%20circa%201860%20v%20hidef.jpg

PrzemoF

Anyone tried to setup building Ireland map for OSMAnd?
Manual here [1], but I failed with java crashing all the time.

[1] http://code.google.com/p/osmand/wiki/OsmandMapUpdates

homer simpson

Deleted User wrote: »

Anyone living in small villages or towns around the country, or those of you with a long daily commute, this will show you unmapped places that are setup as villages etc but with little or no data present

Unmapped villages & towns in OSM

The same for N Ireland

Courtesy of Pascal Neis

Click on any of the red dots to get the name

I can give a few of the Donegal one's a lash. I don't need to do traces like before just use the imagery as reference right?

yup

I got 2 in Galway this evening, Castleblakeny and Caltra. Took a spin over, got the info I needed, came home and added it to the map



Took all of about 90 mins including the driving. Gotta love the new imagery!

Sponge Bob

homer simpson wrote: »

I can give a few of the Donegal one's a lash. I don't need to do traces like before just use the imagery as reference right?

No, you log in.

Then select Potlatch 2 as editor.

Then select BING from Background when you have zoomed well in.

THEN trace off Bing background not off any other background.

ManAboutCouch

homer simpson wrote: »

I can give a few of the Donegal one's a lash.

Nice one. I'm slowly working my way along the coast, from Dunfanaghy to Dungloe. The coastline itself is a bit of a mess and there are very few roads, lakes, rivers etc mapped.

Sponge Bob

The coastline is a mess everywhere but you gotta gett it approx right so that you can fit the correct data 'on land' and not have roads and paths beyond it at sea. I'd say it was traced off satellite photos originally.

lamaq

I noticed that when you change (extend) the coastline it still shows up as water, does this take longer to update or am I missing something?

IrlJidel

ManAboutCouch wrote: »

Nice one. I'm slowly working my way along the coast, from Dunfanaghy to Dungloe. The coastline itself is a bit of a mess and there are very few roads, lakes, rivers etc mapped.

Don't forget we have an out of copyright map available in Potlatch2 or Josm to help us idenify features when you are mapping from imagery.

Map we have is British War Office One Inch to the mile (1:63,360) 1941-43 - (GSGS 4136)

Original announcement here

The maps are not rectified well enough to use for geometry but perfect for naming rivers, lakes etc.

In P2 it is available as "Ireland NLS Historic Maps". In Josm it is available as "Ireland British War Office One-Inch 1941-43 GSGS 4136".

P2 only allows you to have one background map at a time so you can also view it here:
http://maps.openstreetmap.ie/oocmaps.html

ManAboutCouch

Sponge Bob wrote: »

I'd say it was traced off satellite photos originally.

Yep - from LandSat, and it was done by machine, rather than by hand - http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Prototype_Global_Shoreline

ManAboutCouch

lamaq wrote: »

I noticed that when you change (extend) the coastline it still shows up as water, does this take longer to update or am I missing something?

Yes, it does take longer to show up. This is because rendering the coastlines is a very intensive task, so it isn't done by the standard map renderer (Mapnik) on the fly. It is usually run once a month or so, IIRC.

Sponge Bob

If you go down and measure the 'tip' of a pier with GPS and if Bing 'agrees' with that then the problem is the Openstreetmap delay in rerendering coastline. You can force OSM to rerender most stuff 'on the fly' at any zoom level, EXCEPT for coastlines.

So make sure all your features like roads are on land and check a few key locations with GPS to confirm...and wait for OSM to catch up on the corrected coastline some time in future.

I think a coastline is a high water mark by the way.

lamaq

Sponge Bob wrote: »

I think a coastline is a high water mark by the way.

Mean high water spring according to this - http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Coastline

lamaq

IrlJidel wrote: »

You forgot highway=tertiary

Local Primary Roads (L1000-L4999) will be highway=tertiary
Local Tertiary Roads (L9000-L99999) should be highway=unclassified
Local Secondary Roads ( L5000-L8999) is a judgement call, use highway=tertiary if you think it should be preferred over other highway=unclassified when routing, otherwise highway=unclassified


I don't use highway=track if is a public road.

see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Ireland/Roads#Highway

I'm sure this has been asked in other threads before but is there a way to find out the L numbers if the roads aren't yet signed? I'm doing parts of Galway currently and couldn't find anything on the county council website.

Sponge Bob

The only way is to get the list off the district engineering office and they are not very clear a lot of the time. The covention for a 'tendril' boreen is that the main boreen off a Local Primary or Regional is numbered 4 digit , eg L6123 ( also known as LS6123)

A Public road is 'taken in charge (nationalised) and then designated to the end of that taken in charge section...eg for 213m off the N61 in the Townland of Ballyhoo.. The council must then surface it. Where the surfacing ends is not a public road any more even if publically accessible...such as a bog road.

Boreens branching off that are then L61231 L61232 also known....confusingly....as LT61231 LT61232 ...at least that is how Galway does it.

The number of digits indicates LP LS or LT. However only LP roads are Tertiary Road sin OSM and perhaps an LS that crosses from an LP to an R

Roads that end up nowhere, be they LS or LT roads are Minor Roads. If a road is not taken over ( and estate road) it is neither Teriary or Minor but Residential.

For OSM purposes all Regional Roads are Secondary and they are all mapped already. The local road network is the remaining challenge and will all be Tertiary Minor or Residential.

Note on Road numbering here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_roads_in_Ireland#Local_Road_numbering

Specimen map of Galway Local roads produced by council here. You can see how they number them.

http://www.galway.ie/en/Services/RoadsTransportation/RoadProjects/N59MoycullenBypass/FilesTable/Addenda%20May%202012%20V02%20-%20Final%20Version.pdf ( page 49)

Sponge Bob

The narrow definition of a public road is

1. It leads to an inhabited house
2. It is taken in charge
3. It is designated with an L number.

However there are some anomalies.

1. Last House anomalies. Everyone is familiar with roads where a new house is built at the end and a new bit of tarmac goes down. This last bit may not be a public road in the strict sense. It may have been funded by the public under 2 circumstances.

The road may serve more than one landowner ( and of course one house) and the tarmac may have been funded under

i) The Local Improvement Scheme ( road remains private but public pays 80-90% of cost of improvement
ii) The local councilor has a discretionar fund and may have disbursed a few quid, normally councillors can 'direct' €20k of roads expenditure each per annum)

or

iii) Both of those.

However the road may not be public after all our money was spent. see a description http://www.laois.ie/CommunityandLiving/Neighbourhood/CommunityRoadworkSchemes/

2. Bog Roads

Many are familiar with a road that is paved to the last house, gravel for a bit and peters out as a dirt track. The GRAVEL may have been paid for by the public purse.

Various schemes were run by Bord na Mona and Coillte and the Dept of the Gaeltacht to access bogs and forests. These are publicly funded roads, generally gravelled as they carry lorries and tractors. Note here

http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/D/0335/D.0335.198205260015.html

However they are not maintained by the local road engineer and are not 'in charge public' despite a public right of access. The Bog Development grants terminated in 1987 , see http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/1992/03/11/00050.asp

3.Bord na Mona roads. These were built by Bord Na Mona ( midlands mainly) under the 1946 act and were never taken in charge by Local Authorities to force Bord na Mona to maintain them, see

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1946/en/act/pub/0010/sec0023.html

4. Coillte ( and ex Coillte) forest roads ( inside and leading to forest) are open access for walking but NOT YET for mountain biking save in some cases.

see http://www.coillte.ie/fileadmin/templates/pdfs/dsp/W2-Draft-2011-2015-DSP-new1.pdf

5. If a road is funded by the public it may not be gated save where private land leads off it...or a state forestry.

So do try understand the difference between publicly accessible, publicly owned and publicly funded ...but private.

civis_liberalis

I've being doing some work on Co. Galway.

Some places seem to be waaaay off. Is it worth the time to re-align everything to the bing imagery or is this likely to happen every time newer imagery is available?

I'm aware there was no coverage for the most of the county before.

jmkennedyie

Actually some bing imagery is not perfectly lined up. The best thing to do is upload a gps trace, or view gps traces that others have uploaded, and then move the Bing image to align with that.

I don't know how other editors do it, but in the JOSM editor there is a menu option to create and save an offset for the imagery.