Sexual Discrimination (Theortical Question)

Iago

Bonito wrote: »

Sensationalism? OK. At a big beers, a female poster was approached by someone who doesn't even use the site, I've stated it above in my other post. Imagine the greater risk to the girls if they're in an even smaller, all female group?

While I personally couldn't give a fiddlers and think that any group that wants a private forum and can satisfy the admins as to the reasoning should have an opportunity to have one and run it as they see fit the above point is spurious and ridiculous to be honest.

Bonito

Iago wrote: »

While I personally couldn't give a fiddlers and think that any group that wants a private forum and can satisfy the admins as to the reasoning should have an opportunity to have one and run it as they see fit the above point is spurious and ridiculous to be honest.

How? You're basically saying that the ladies are safer in a smaller group on their own. That, is what's spurious and ridiculous.

If it happened at a major event you can be damned sure some weirdo's would try it while they're out on their own in a smaller group.

Otis Driftwood

Bonito wrote: »

Sensationalism? OK. At a big beers, a female poster was approached by someone who doesn't even use the site, I've stated it above in my other post. Imagine the greater risk to the girls if they're in an even smaller, all female group? At least at the beers there's some male posters. (maybe a bit too much but still they're there to deter outside stalkers).

What is the problem with letting the ladies meet up while feeling safe? Seriously, just get over it.

So the member,or anyone for that matter,wouldnt get approached in a bar if they wernt boards members then?


I know the reason for the private forum and agree it was neccessary as LL beers were been over ran with blokes,it makes sense that they (female posters) can organize stuff among themselves.I have no issue/complaint/gripe or anything of the sort with this,why would I?

My previous post was because Xiney implied that by having public beers,female members were at some kind of risk/danger.That is sensationalist.

My point is that no matter where women go on a night out they are probably going to be approached by blokes.

Iago

Bonito wrote: »

How? You're basically saying that the ladies are safer in a smaller group on their own. That, is what's spurious and ridiculous.

If it happened at a major event you can be damned sure some weirdo's would try it while they're out on their own in a smaller group.

No, what I'm saying is that your original point which was "A lady was out with a group of people in a bar, and somebody that wasn't even in that group approached her" as a reason for having a private forum is spurious and ridiculous.

I guarantee you that at any night that this private forum organises in any bar in Dublin at least one of the ladies present will be approached by at least one man that wasn't with the group.

Have the private forum by all means, invite whoever you want into it, but safety is not the primary concern. The whole point of the private group, imo, is to avoid a situation where male posters outnumber female posters on a girls night out. I get that, but that won't stop them being approached and propositioned, it just means they don't start out with more men than women.

tbh

nedtheshed wrote: »

Pray tell,how would they be any more dangerous than going out on a regular night with their own circle of friends?
.

it's the difference between "Hi! I saw you from across the bar. Can i buy you a drink?"
and

"Hi! I've been reading your posts in TLL. I see you work for x and you recently broke up with your boyfriend, and you're on the pill and you always wear matching undies and I've seen your pic and you once had a disasterous sexual encounter with a farmer from Tipperary and kittens and pizza make you happy. Can i buy you your favourite drink?"

Bonito

Bonito wrote: »

I know of one of the posters who were at a beers and was approached by a man who wasn't a boards.ie user. The man had been stalking her posts/pics/profile as a guest and because TLL is visible to all, he was able to see where they'd all be on a particular night.

tbh wrote: »

it's the difference between "Hi! I saw you from across the bar. Can i buy you a drink?"
and

"Hi! I've been reading your posts in TLL. I see you work for x and you recently broke up with your boyfriend, and you're on the pill and you always wear matching undies and I've seen your pic and you once had a disasterous sexual encounter with a farmer from Tipperary and kittens and pizza make you happy. Can i buy you your favourite drink?"

Thank you tbh. I don't know how that wasn't picked up from my post above. Selective reading and all that.

shellyboo

nedtheshed wrote: »

My point is that no matter where women go on a night out they are probably going to be approached by blokes.

Blokes who've been following their posts and pictures online without signing up to the site at all. That is massively different to any old random bloke, it's threatening and scary, and anyone who genuinely can't see how it would be is seriously lacking in empathy towards women and their personal safety.


As for the "whingers" part of the post... way to prove a point, everyone. Are you seriously getting annoyed about women trying to stay safe online? That's both scary and pathetic.

Otis Driftwood

tbh wrote: »

it's the difference between "Hi! I saw you from across the bar. Can i buy you a drink?"
and

"Hi! I've been reading your posts in TLL. I see you work for x and you recently broke up with your boyfriend, and you're on the pill and you always wear matching undies and I've seen your pic and you once had a disasterous sexual encounter with a farmer from Tipperary and kittens and pizza make you happy. Can i buy you your favourite drink?"

Point taken,Im obviously having a slow day.:o

I genuinely didnt even think of it that way,my bad.

Bonito

You're forgiven.

To summarise tbh's post.

"Hi, can I get you a drink"

Does not equal.

"Hi, I stalk you on boards, it's OK no need to tell me what drink you would like I already have it here, 2 roofies, yes? I see your bra is black, so your nickers must be too."

*shudder*

Dudess

shellyboo wrote: »

As for the "whingers" part of the post... way to prove a point, everyone. Are you seriously getting annoyed about women trying to stay safe online? That's both scary and pathetic.

Actually Shellyboo, I don't think it's taking issue with ensuring women's safety, I think it's more an objection to the way a forum with a heavy anti gender discrimination ethos... has a sub forum with a gender discrimination ethos.
Whatever the ins and outs are, that's what it is, and it doesn't sit well with me personally. That's just my opinion.
It comes down to: a tiny few guys act the perv and it's decided "Well they have a penis, so let's prohibit all with penises".

Handsome Bob

tbh wrote: »

it's the difference between "Hi! I saw you from across the bar. Can i buy you a drink?"
and

"Hi! I've been reading your posts in TLL. I see you work for x and you recently broke up with your boyfriend, and you're on the pill and you always wear matching undies and I've seen your pic and you once had a disasterous sexual encounter with a farmer from Tipperary and kittens and pizza make you happy. Can i buy you your favourite drink?"

You would rightfully describe the bloke as a bit of a nutter, but I would also say to his victim TMI to be putting on the internet.

Silverfish

Dudess wrote: »

Actually Shellyboo, I don't think it's taking issue with ensuring women's safety, I think it's more an objection to the way a forum with a heavy anti gender discrimination ethos... has a sub forum with a gender discrimination ethos.
Whatever the ins and outs are, that's what it is, and it doesn't sit well with me personally. That's just my opinion.
It comes down to: a tiny few guys act the perv and it's decided "Well they have a penis, so let's prohibit all with penises".

Do you or have you ever obeyed the rules of a lads night out? Or do you go along anyway on the basis that they cannot discriminate?

Look, some girls wanted to make new female friends, they want to meet up and go shopping or go for coffee without all of boards a) knowing about it or b) showing up.

If it helps, we can rename the private forum, to something unrelated to the ladies lounge, but I think the issue is more with the 'Ladies Lounge' part of that rather than what the forum is for, am I correct?

shellyboo

Dudess wrote: »

Actually Shellyboo, I don't think it's taking issue with ensuring women's safety, I think it's more an objection to the way a forum with a heavy anti gender discrimination ethos... has a sub forum with a gender discrimination ethos.
Whatever the ins and outs are, that's what it is, and it doesn't sit well with me personally. That's just my opinion.
It comes down to: a tiny few guys act the perv and it's decided "Well they have a penis, so let's prohibit all with penises".

I take your point, but I also think that objecting to having a space where the women of tLL can organise girls' nights out (as some forum members simply will not attend mixed nights out for various reasons, as is their perogative) is, at this stage, entirely necessary.

The alternative is to state at the start of every meetup thread - this is a women-only event/a mixed event. Which descends very quickly into this discussion we're having right now, every. single. time. That's not fair on the mods or the users, and especially not on the people who want to make new friends through the forum, as they're being put off by all the sniping and infighting that goes on the whole time. I see why people have an issue with it, I really do... but what's the better alternative? I'd love to hear some.

You could argue that women who want to meet other women off boards get eachothers' numbers and do it off-site, but personally I think the private meetup forum is a fantastic gesture from the admins in allowing tLL to function as a space *for women*, as it was intended to be.

Is it sexist? Yes. So are many private fora across the site. Is it hypocritical? Probably. But then, complaining about being called a "whinger" and then coming on and having a good old whinge (simply on point of principle) is pretty hypocritical too.

I genuinely think that people think this is a way to "get back" at the men on that forum or shut them out, or exclude them. It's not. It's simply an attempt to create some sort of female community on what's supposed to be a female-oriented forum. But yet again, as happens every single time tLL tries to do something positive for its female posters, it's decried as sexist and unfair.

It's getting really, really tiring.

billy the squid

Berty wrote: »

How does this fit in?



http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=65606932&postcount=1

point (3) in that link is a little condesending, and is unnecessary, particularly as the reasoning behind why men are not allowed has already been mentioned further up the post.

the desire to have female only access to a forum for meetups is perfectly reasonable, however the afformentioned point comes accross as a little snotty.

Nerin

Hardly a big deal. It's actually a pretty clever idea, since its simple and keeps all the hassle thats supposedly happenening to a minimum.
From Bonitos post, it looks pretty serious too. Wow.
Beers can be a pain in the hole when people show up that are pervy or creepy.

No need for the whinger comment though, it's just inviting a ****storm. Seems like a really silly comment to leave there.
Its more of that crap thats really tiring.

To sum up, grand idea, no big deal, snotty comment is sad and not needed.

WindSock

If The Gentlemens Club had the similar problems with women meeting up to hit on the guys in the same fashion that men do for LL events, to a point where they were put off or deterred from organising events publicly then I would see no problem with them having a private forum to do that in. The demographic for each forum is gender specific. In order to organise a lads/girls night out online, you really have to do it privately, don't you?

I mean, that's all the private forum is for. It is not as if it is something men would have been included in in the first place, or even wanted to have been, unless to cause annoyance.

I do agree though that it could perhaps be worded a little differently.

Silverfish

Okay, so if the 'whingers' comment (which was presumably a joke ) is removed, will that help?

John Mason

so, say if a/many male boardies just happens to be in the same venue as the meet up will he still be publicly named and shamed in the TLL and perma banned ? as this was stated previously as to what would happen - which IMHO was an absolute disgrace.


i am not a member of the restricted forum nor do i have any interest in being a member but i hear about things that are said and organised, so if i hear, i am pretty sure male boardies hear too.

boards is a small world, you would be amazed at who is related to who or friends with who:)

it just doesnt sit well on me but then i was never afraid of men

Handsome Bob

irishbird wrote: »

so, say if a/many male boardies just happens to be in the same venue as the meet up will he still be publicly named and shamed in the TLL and perma banned ? as this was stated previously as to what would happen - which IMHO was an absolute disgrace.

I'd say it'd be looked at like this: If the guy stays away and among his own crowd, maybe saying a brief hello, then he's fine. But if he makes himself at home among the TLLers, or in other words if he gatecrashes the party, then that might be worth some reprimand.

John Mason

LZ5by5 wrote: »

I'd say it'd be looked at like this: If the guy stays away and among his own crowd, maybe saying a brief hello, then he's fine. But if he makes himself at home among the TLLers, or in other words if he gatecrashes the party, then that might be worth some reprimand.

see, this makes me feel uncomfortable what it if happens to be other female boardies not in the private forum? should the lesbians be stopped as well just in case they hit on one of the girls.

exclusion worries me because once it starts where does it stop

Silverfish

irishbird wrote: »

so, say if a/many male boardies just happens to be in the same venue as the meet up will he still be publicly named and shamed in the TLL and perma banned ? as this was stated previously as to what would happen - which IMHO was an absolute disgrace.

No, I don't believe that was ever or will ever be a serious proposal on the ladies lounge.

irishbird wrote: »

i am not a member of the restricted forum nor do i have any interest in being a member but i hear about things that are said and organised, so if i hear, i am pretty sure male boardies hear too.

boards is a small world, you would be amazed at who is related to who or friends with who:)

Fine if they hear about it, I would assume if the girls have arranged a meetup to go shopping or have coffee in town or at one of their houses, it would be noticeable if one of them was male, no? I wouldn't show up somewhere I wasn't invited, personally. But that's me.

irishbird wrote: »

it just doesnt sit well on me but then i was never afraid of men

...I don't think it's a fear of men. I think it's wanting girls meetups.

Nobody has addressed my question relating to lads nights out yet.

WindSock

Presumably the night is organised for people who posted in the thread that they expressed interest in going. If other boardsies happen to be in the same place at the same time by coincidence then of course there is nothing wrong with that, I can't see how there would be.
However if other boardsies have decided they are going to co ordinate a meet up specifically to crash the other party then that's a little off, if not sad.

Handsome Bob

irishbird wrote: »

see, this makes me feel uncomfortable what it if happens to be other female boardies not in the private forum? should the lesbians be stopped as well just in case they hit on one of the girls.

exclusion worries me because once it starts where does it stop

Touche, it would be a bit much if randomers who weren't members of the private forum were accepted into the party just because they were female. Good point indeed. :pac:

WindSock

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Touche, it would be a bit much if randomers who weren't members of the private forum were accepted into the party just because they were female. Good point indeed. :pac:

Well, I don't know many people who would be comfortable with going in on someone elses party uninvited, just because they have tits and use boards. It'd be like crashing someone whom you knows birthday party or something, just because you know them doesn't mean you automatically get to hang around when you bump into them and their posse.

Maple

shellyboo wrote: »

The alternative is to state at the start of every meetup thread - this is a women-only event/a mixed event. Which descends very quickly into this discussion we're having right now, every. single. time.

QFT. It's like some tiresome roundabout.

shellyboo wrote: »

I genuinely think that people think this is a way to "get back" at the men on that forum or shut them out, or exclude them. It's not. It's simply an attempt to create some sort of female community on what's supposed to be a female-oriented forum. But yet again, as happens every single time tLL tries to do something positive for its female posters, it's decried as sexist and unfair.

Again spot on, there will be future TLL events for both sexes but there's nothing wrong with the women of TLL arranging nights out for just themselves. Perhaps it all could have been organised via PM but given the hassles and awkwardness in that we asked if a private forum could be formed, as a branch of TLL, it was considered and we were successful. If the guys in TGC felt the need to do the same would we be having this discussion? I personally wouldn't be bothered. Let them have their boys night if that's what they want.

shellyboo wrote: »

It's getting really, really tiring.

Yawn-some in fact.

Silverfish wrote: »

Okay, so if the 'whingers' comment (which was presumably a joke ) is removed, will that help?

I would have thought the whingers comment tongue in cheek, however if it's causing such offense then lets just remove it.

tbh

Just to clarify, the gc will never seek to exclude ladies. It's not cause we're all about the equality. It's cause... Well, you know why. Totally support the ladies private forum, if that's what they want.

Xiney

Since I was the one who wrote the original "whingers" comment, allow me to apologise to everyone who lacks a sense of humour. :rolleyes:

g'em

Tonight I went to my second ladies-only Muay Thai class. A fellow boardsie had alerted me to this class which is being run in a club where I trained in the regular class alongside the blokes for a while at Christmas. I enjoye it (the mixed class that is) until it got to the point that I was constantly being made aware that I wa the only girl in class and it pretty much started to lose it's appeal. So the club started to run a girls only class. Last week there were 4 girls, this week there were 9. I'm fully expecting that number to keep growing.

I don't care if this is discrimination, the simple fact is this: the girls feel more comfortable in the company of only their own sex. The exact same principle applies to meet ups. It really is as simple as some of the female members wanting their own little corner to talk about meeting up to go to the cinema or shopping or whatever. Why on earth is his concept being dragged through the mill *again*??

It's creating friendships and bonds and enhancing people social scene, giving them funthings to do with new people. Why on earth would anyone want to put a negative spin on this??!

I genuinely smile when I look into the private form and I see all the plans and organising that's being done, it's one of the huge positives of the forum, it's bringing people closer not just on-line but in real life. And if having a ladies-only policy encourages that, then so be it. I'm pulling together a ladies-only weightlifting session for sometime in June - am I goin to get accused of sexual discrimination for trying to encourage girls to start enjoying exercise in a comfortable environment?

So far, from my real-life observations, ladies only events are proving succesful and enjoyable, an at no-ones expense. Leave well alone, please.

Dudess

Xiney wrote: »

Since I was the one who wrote the original "whingers" comment, allow me to apologise to everyone who lacks a sense of humour. :rolleyes:

Didn't see any humour meself, just what others here have said about it. And your response there complete with rolleyes just reaffirms it tbh.

g'em wrote: »

Leave well alone, please.

What?

Xiney

Does it reaffirm that I have had enough of this particular argument, that I've heard it all before, that I don't care anymore because it's been done to death, and if anyone still has a problem I'm not likely to be extremely sympathetic?