Demolition of Victorian railway station at Carlilse pier ruled illegal

Tabnabs

Rebuild the pier! Rebuild the pier! they cry.

Eh, the pier is still there. The pier was never touched. It stands unmolested. The took down the structure on the pier, asbestos and all. The structures that "were not protected structures" according to ABP.

What happens now? Do they reinstate the asbestos monstrosity? Or do we go round in circles with consultants benefiting the most?

There is no victory for any party in this ruling. Very interesting to see where it goes from here?

(and for the harbour users, another year rumbles by where the pier is off limits)

dynamick

Dyflin wrote: »

Eh, the pier is still there. The pier was never touched. It stands unmolested. The took down the structure on the pier, asbestos and all.

Referring to the structure on the pier as 'the pier' is a simple synecdoche.

What happens now?

Now the harbour company has learnt that it is not above the law. Its officers ought to be held to account for wasting public money by refusing to apply for planning permission before illegally demolishing a 150yr old historic structure. The public has won because the principle of the rule of law has been reasserted.

The harbour company can now opt to restore the entire structure or apply for retention planning permission for a full or partial demolition.

Victor

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

That building should have been flattened that day the station was closed and something useful built instead or simply opened up to the public.

Station closed 1980. Ferry terminal closed c. 1996. It would have been nice to be able to wait indoors for the ferry.

Cookie_Monster

Dyflin wrote: »

(and for the harbour users, another year rumbles by where the pier is off limits)

it is not off limits, in fact I parked on it earlier :P

dynamick wrote: »

Referring to the structure on the pier as 'the pier' is a simple synecdoche.

The peir is still there, the terminal and station were removed. Pretty clear distinction.

The harbour company can now opt to restore the entire structure or apply for retention planning permission for a full or partial demolition.

well hopefully they'll just apply for and be granted retention. there was nothing worth saving about that decrepid, ugly shed. It was a hazard and an eyesore, nothing more.

Fratton Fred

All this fuss about a decrepit building no one went near, whilst the sea front from the east pier to and including the baths is a rat infested junkie filled eyesore.

Why do people worry about the past and not care about the future. There are plenty of historic features in DL, it does not need the old station.

Run_to_da_hills

Dunlaoghaire Harbour Company may have to reinstate a Victorian railway station on Carlisle Pier following a ruling by An Bord Pleanála that its demolition last autumn required planning permission.

To most of us the Carlilse pier was an ugly grey monstrosity that looked as if it was falling apart but beneath the decaying 1960's facade was a historic Victorian Railway station built in 1859.

I hope this railway station is rebuilt to its former glory as this was another "fast one" pulled on the people of Dunlaoghaire just like the demolishment of the former court house up the town.

As it was prior to the 1960's



Amazing wroth iron structure.



Post 1960.

Ugly 1960's cladding that covered this magnificant building for almost half a century.





As it is now.



http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0522/1224270894714.html

Cookie_Monster

what is the point in rebuilding a rail station? It won't be used.

They should put the new library there, maybe with something else like an aquarium or something

Run_to_da_hills

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

what is the point in rebuilding a rail station?

Principal.

They broke the law and thought they could get away with it, just like what happened to the old Dun laoghaire court house. . .

Tabnabs

Surely it's all or nothing? The whole building goes back up and the bit of old iron gets covered over again (as it's useless anyway) and maybe we can have shops and apartments?

Run_to_da_hills

Dyflin wrote: »

Surely it's all or nothing? The whole building goes back up and the bit of old iron gets covered over again (as it's useless anyway) and maybe we can have shops and apartments?

The original was never cladded.

If Dunlaoghaire has serious tennancy problems filling the Shopping centre what hope in hell has it got filling Carlilse pier also with over 200,000 vacant properties in the country, we don't need any more. Additional problems of parking etc would incur.

The original Station would have been an ideal cover for open air markets, artists displaying their works, food stalls etc during the summer.

Agent Smith

illegal or not, The Decaying Building was a Complete Eyesore.

Run_to_da_hills

Agent Smith wrote: »

illegal or not, The Decaying Building was a Complete Eyesore.

You are deceived like every almost everyone else in town.

That dirty old pigeon shi*ted on grey cladded building is of no historical value at all

What was beneath all this was an irreplaceable cast iron frame work of a Victorian railway station.

Its the same as a stupid farmer setting fire to an delapidated barn because he didn't like the look of it and in the process he destroys the Aston Martin DB Mark III that was contained inside it.

Cookie_Monster

Agent Smith wrote: »

illegal or not, The Decaying Building was a Complete Eyesore.

Indeed. They do need to put something there but not the corregated thing that wass there.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

The original was never cladded.

It is cladded though, the roof is covered in that horrible corregated iron muck.

Tabnabs

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

You are deceived like every almost everyone else in town.

That dirty old pigeon shi*ted on grey cladded building is of no historical value at all

What was beneath all this was an irreplaceable cast iron frame work of a Victorian railway station.

ZZZZzzzzz.

Pity ABP don't agree with you. They reckon it had no historical significance and was as important as the rest of the old pigeon shi*ted building.

The Sparrow

The Victorian iron railway station actually looks really interesting and it could be a great place for a really good market and other events. Get rid of the rest and just rebuild that.

They should have to rebuild it as far as I'm concerned. You can't just go pulling down historical buildings without the necessary permission.

dynamick

Dyflin wrote: »

Pity ABP don't agree with you. They reckon it had no historical significance and was as important as the rest of the old pigeon shi*ted building.

ABP did not assess the historical significance of the structure. Instead they decided that Carlisle Pier was not on the Record of Protected Structures in Dun Laoghaire and that it was not within the curtilage of a protected structure.

Tabnabs

And protected structures "form part of the architectural heritage and which are of special architectural, historical, archaeological, artistic, cultural, scientific, social or technical interest."

Planning and Development Act, 2000

If it quacks like a duck and swims like a duck...

casio4

Victor wrote: »

That still does change the fact that what they did was illegal.

When people say it was closed for "decades", perhaps they should realise that the period 1996-2009 doesn't quite constitute "decades".

http://www.sealink-holyhead.com/ports/dun_laoghaire/carlisle_pier/home.html

thanks for that link Victor some brilliant pictures there:)

bijapos

Was in Dun Laoghaire a couple of times over the last fortnight. Yes, they should have left the original Victorian structure, would make a good cover for markets, concerts etc. The open air films last weekend were washed out to a point, it would have been the ideal spot for them.

From a cultural point it is very significant place. Hundreds of thousands, probably millions of Irish left through DL over the ca 150 years it was there, most probably never returned, a memorial or a small museum would not go astray. maybe an idea for the battery at the end of the East Pier.

Fratton Fred

Why were people not this interested in the shed when it was covered in ugly asbestos cladding?

Cookie_Monster

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Why were people not this interested in the shed when it was covered in ugly asbestos cladding?

same reason no-one cares enough to do anything about the derelict baths. Heaven forbid they actually demolish them as they should though, then all the moaners, like that Boyd Barret loony and his PBP alliance nazis, come out trying to block it and just leave a rotting hulk rather than something useable.

Fratton Fred

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

same reason no-one cares enough to do anything about the derelict baths. Heaven forbid they actually demolish them as they should though, then all the moaners, like that Boyd Barret loony and his PBP alliance nazis, come out trying to block it and just leave a rotting hulk rather than something useable.

Theu should sell that off to domeone like JD Weatherspoons to build a big pub/restaurant/cafe there. It is never going to be public baths again and somewhere to sit and have a meal/drink would be perfect.

That would mean someone making a profit though, much better the rats have somewhere to breed....

xia

Just had a look at the DL Harbour Company Site.

http://www.dlharbour.ie/content/ms/detail.php?newid=1190&catid=5&category=News&locid=62

One Part in it:

The so called “Train Shed” which was housed within the larger structure, was utterly derelict (pictures below), and the steel gables were in an advanced state of disintegration and were beyond repair. Those elements of the old train shed which could be salvaged – such as the iron columns - have been preserved and kept in storage – and it is intended that they will be integrated into the long term plan for the development of the Carlisle Pier in accord with the objective of the recently published County Development Plan.

Oh, and they try to attract cruise ships...Have pros and cons about that in my head right now.

Run_to_da_hills

xia wrote: »

"The so called “Train Shed” which was housed within the larger structure, was utterly derelict (pictures below), and the steel gables were in an advanced state of disintegration and were beyond repair. Those elements of the old train shed which could be salvaged – such as the iron columns - have been preserved and kept in storage – and it is intended that they will be integrated into the long term plan for the development of the Carlisle Pier in accord with the objective of the recently published County Development Plan".
.

They can count themselves lucky.