Jose Mourinho, the greatest football manager of all time.......

Kess73

GavRedKing wrote: »

Are you forgetting his time with Porto and the UEFA cup and domestic cups he won there?

I wouldnt say Del Bosque and Jose are easily ahead of Fergie but they're certainly right up there with him in a very elite group, I'd throw Ancelotti in that group as well.

Would have Hitzfeld in that group also.

j8wk2feszrnpao

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Does not matter.

Well, it does when comparing managers.

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

with bit of luck could easily have won more.

And without John Terry slipping he could have won less.
Good luck/bad luck is rarely recorded in the trophy cabinet

Alfred Borden

Not a hope, Im an Arsenal fan and its Sir Alex. Come back in 20 years time, then we can judge.

Mont

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

In last 20 years only Barcelona and Real Madrid have won more Cl then United. Both on 3. United have 2.

Real and Barca have had far more quality at their disposal too when it comes to star players.

The last team to win 2 in a row was Milan in 1990.

I think Ferguson should have maybe 1 more CL, but no more really.[/QUOTE]

I think he should have one less. Utd have never dominated the European scene as say Barcelona or Milan have.

The_Kew_Tour

Mont wrote: »

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

In last 20 years only Barcelona and Real Madrid have won more Cl then United. Both on 3. United have 2.

Real and Barca have had far more quality at their disposal too when it comes to star players.

The last team to win 2 in a row was Milan in 1990.

I think Ferguson should have maybe 1 more CL, but no more really.[/QUOTE]

I think he should have one less. Utd have never dominated the European scene as say Barcelona or Milan have.

So he has overachieved?

Mont

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Mont wrote: »

So he has overachieved?

Domestically he is king, European-wise not so much.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Mont wrote: »

I think he should have one less. Utd have never dominated the European scene as say Barcelona or Milan have.

2010/11 UEFA Champions League Final
2009/10 UEFA Champions League Quarter-finals
2008/09 UEFA Champions League Final
2007/08 UEFA Champions League Winner
2006/07 UEFA Champions League Semi-finals

That's a pretty good run that most teams would have been happy with.
But just one win isn't a great return for that. Underachieved a little. Not sure time is on his side to get another CL win under his belt.

The_Kew_Tour

Mont wrote: »

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Domestically he is king, European-wise not so much.

You are looking for best of both worlds.

Simple answer yes or no.

Has he overacheived in Europe if you are saying he should only have won 1 European Cup?

The_Kew_Tour

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Mont wrote: »

2010/11 UEFA Champions League Final
2009/10 UEFA Champions League Quarter-finals
2008/09 UEFA Champions League Final
2007/08 UEFA Champions League Winner
2006/07 UEFA Champions League Semi-finals

That's a pretty good run that most teams would have been happy with.
But just one win isn't a great return for that. Underachieved a little. Not sure time is on his side to get another CL win under his belt.

Thats fair enough. Dont have problem with you saying that. I see your point and thanks for making a logic explanation.

In his defense he has come up against 2 Barcelona sides who were at their peak especially in 2011 when we were destroyed.

v3ttel

Eduardo Howling Cylinder wrote: »

2010/11 UEFA Champions League Final
2009/10 UEFA Champions League Quarter-finals
2008/09 UEFA Champions League Final
2007/08 UEFA Champions League Winner
2006/07 UEFA Champions League Semi-finals

That's a pretty good run that most teams would have been happy with.
But just one win isn't a great return for that. Underachieved a little. Not sure time is on his side to get another CL win under his belt.

On the flip side, he has came up against one of the strongest club sides ever, possibly with the greatest player to ever play the game in their ranks, in two finals around the time that United seemed at the peak of their powers in Europe.

I wouldn't say that that record is underachieving at all. I would say that possibly you could make a strong case for underachievement from 2000 to 2006, and throughout the 90s, with the obvious exception of 99.

The record in the years you've posted is pretty imperious.

Johnny Utah

Another great managerial performance today!

Vito Corleone

Without question (from a Pool fan).

bur

A rich man's Sam Allardyce.

MayoSalmon

Peyton Manning wrote: »

No.

Just no.

Yes.

Just Yes

Johnny Utah

bur wrote: »

A rich man's Sam Allardyce.

LOL, Jose Mourinho is a masterful tactician; Big Sam is a hoofmaster!

mike65

Nah others won multiple trophies at the top level without spending vast sums and did so at one club rather than hopping like a magpie from well feathered nest to well feathered nest.

Johnny Utah

mike65 wrote: »

Nah others won multiple trophies at the top level without spending vast sums and did so at one club rather than hopping like a magpie from well feathered nest to well feathered nest.

Like who Mike?

(Please don't say Fergie!)

Dozen Wicked Words

I think Mourinho is great, is a Chelsea legend and probably always will be, but his team this season has showed an inability to break down stubborn defences just as Liverpool did today.

MD1990

He would make a even better Rugby coach

j8wk2feszrnpao

10 men behind the ball, genius stuff.
It worked, and that's probably what matters most.
But it's dreadful to watch, even more so considering the money spent.

Imagine two teams setup like Chelsea today. Hoofball and long throws.
Brutal stuff.

mike65

Johnny Utah wrote: »

Like who Mike?

(Please don't say Fergie!)

I present to you Bob Paisley

Football League First Division (6): 1975–76, 1976–77, 1978–79, 1979–80, 1981–82, 1982–83
League Cup (3): 1980–81, 1981–82, 1982–83
European Cup (3): 1976–77, 1977–78, 1980–81
UEFA Cup (1): 1975–76

and small change of

FA Charity Shield (6): 1974, 1976, 1977, 1979, 1980, 1982
UEFA Super Cup (1): 1977

bradlente

munstermagic11 wrote: »

10 men behind the ball, genius stuff.
It worked, and that's probably what matters most.
But it's dreadful to watch, even more so considering the money spent.

Imagine two teams setup like Chelsea today. Hoofball and long throws.
Brutal stuff.

Wait til Wednesday night :-P

MayoSalmon

mike65 wrote: »

I present to you Bob Paisley

Football League First Division (6): 1975–76, 1976–77, 1978–79, 1979–80, 1981–82, 1982–83
League Cup (3): 1980–81, 1981–82, 1982–83
European Cup (3): 1976–77, 1977–78, 1980–81
UEFA Cup (1): 1975–76

and small change of

FA Charity Shield (6): 1974, 1976, 1977, 1979, 1980, 1982
UEFA Super Cup (1): 1977

Granted but all with one team in one country.

Jose has done it in the top 3 leagues in the world. This is why he regarded as the greatest.

I would imagine he will gone on on win much more than Paisley ever did in time.

Hannibal

mike65 wrote: »

I present to you Bob Paisley

Football League First Division (6): 1975–76, 1976–77, 1978–79, 1979–80, 1981–82, 1982–83
League Cup (3): 1980–81, 1981–82, 1982–83
European Cup (3): 1976–77, 1977–78, 1980–81
UEFA Cup (1): 1975–76

and small change of

FA Charity Shield (6): 1974, 1976, 1977, 1979, 1980, 1982
UEFA Super Cup (1): 1977

and with Paisley you have to bear in mind he was only manager for 9 years so his rate of success in that time span is unsurpassable

j8wk2feszrnpao

bradlente wrote: »

Wait til Wednesday night :-P

I know
Jose does have to be given credit; in a results based business, he does the job.
But if that's successful, and becomes the norm, then the sport will be in a poorer position.

niallo27

munstermagic11 wrote: »

I know
Jose does have to be given credit; in a results based business, he does the job.
But if that's successful, and becomes the norm, then the sport will be in a poorer position.

Is he doing the job though. He is two points behind a liverpool side that finished 7th last season. City will pass them out next week. All this playing ****e football.

j8wk2feszrnpao

MayoSalmon wrote: »

Jose has done it in the top 3 leagues in the world. This is why he regarded as the greatest.

And done it in a dour and negative manner, spending huge money achieving success..
And that's why he may be considered one of the most boring and negative successful managers. And therefore, maybe never the greatest.

mike65

MayoSalmon wrote: »

Granted but all with one team in one country.

Jose has done it in the top 3 leagues in the world. This is why he regarded as the greatest.

I would imagine he will gone on on win much more than Paisley ever did in time.

Sure but he only goes to the club that will throw the most money at the trophy to be won - lets see him at Spurs, Leverkusen, Valencia, Torino and see what he can really do.

MayoSalmon

mike65 wrote: »

Sure but he only goes to the club that will throw the most money at the trophy to be won - lets see him at Spurs, Leverkusen, Valencia, Torino and see what he can really do.

Porto???

MayoSalmon

munstermagic11 wrote: »

And done it in a dour and negative manner, spending huge money achieving success..
And that's why he may be considered one of the most boring and negative successful managers. And therefore, maybe never the greatest.

Again Porto????

j8wk2feszrnpao

MayoSalmon wrote: »

Again Porto????

Who's denying Porto????
You quoted the top 3 league, and that's what I commented on.

MD1990

Mourinho's Porto success was great but a bit overated.They only knocked out one big team in Man U in 03/04.
It was a weak CL that year.

mike65

Porto? Porto are the Arsenal of Portugal - quite big you know.

MayoSalmon

MD1990 wrote: »

Mourinho's Porto success was great but a bit overated.They only knocked out one big team in Man U in 03/04.
It was a weak CL that year.

:rolleyes: Denial..still have to go and win it end of.

MayoSalmon

mike65 wrote: »

Porto? Porto are the Arsenal of Portugal - quite big you know.

Your point?

Ulysses Gaze

There are a couple of other great Managers who have achieved as much as Mourinho. Here are a couple of others leaving out Ferguson & Paisley and Capello.

Helenio Herrera - 4 League Titles in Spain with Barcelona & Atletico Madrid.

3 League Titles with Inter

Back to Back European Cups with Inter (something Mourinho has not done) and two Fairs Cups with Barcelona

Giovanni Trapattoni

7 Scudetti, 1 Bundesliga, 1 Title in Portugal, 1 in Austria

European Cup, Cup Winner Cups & Uefa Cup as well with Juventus.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Ehhhh, I'm unfollowing this thread.
MayoSalmon is just trolling at this stage, boring.

Turtwig

The greatest football manager of all time may very well be one who never wins and trophy and who never sees his name in the spotlight.

Mourinho is good but to echo the parlance of Gerry Armstrong, for me, he sets his teams out far too negatively and that often bites them in the ass. If Mourinho was a little more proactive and let his teams attack the opposition when it is generally safe to do so. Play with a bit more balance he'd win more and be a far better manager. Conceding that much possession and playing too deep requires a considerable amount of luck to go your way.

homer simpson

Jose is a great manager, possibly the greatest in a defensive / team work ethic sense yes, but not the overall greatest, yet

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Ehhhh, I'm unfollowing this thread.
MayoSalmon is just trolling at this stage, boring.

Hannibal

Fabio Capello
Serie A (7): 1991-92, 1992-93, 1993-94, 1995-96, 2000-01, 2004-05, 2005-06
La Liga (2): 1996-97, 2006-07
UEFA Champs League (1): 1993-94
Supercoppa Italiana (4): 1992, 1993, 1994, 2001
European Super Cup (1): 1994

Marcello Lippi
FIFA World Cup (1): 2006
Serie A (5): 1994-95, 1996-97, 1997-98, 2001-02, 2002-03
Coppa Italia (1): 1995
UEFA Champs League (1): 1996
Supercoppa Italiana (4): 1995, 1997, 2002, 2003
European Super Cup (1): 1996
Intercontinental Cup (1): 1996
Chinese Super League (2): 2012, 2013
Chinese FA Cup (1): 2012
Asian Champions League (1): 2013


Giovanni Trapattoni
Serie A (7): 1976-77, 1977-78, 1980-81, 1981-82, 1983-84, 1988-89
Bundesliga (1): 1996-97
Portuguese Primera Liga (1): 2004-05
Austrian Bundesliga (1): 2006-07
UEFA European Cup (1): 1985
UEFA Cup (3): 1977, 1993
UEFA Cup Winners Cup (1): 1984
Coppa Italia (2): 1979, 1983
German Cup (1): 1997-98
German League Cup (1): 1996-97
Supercoppa Italiana (1): 1989
European Super Cup (1): 1984
Intercontinental Cup (1): 1985
Nations Cup (1): 2011 (with Ireland)

MD1990

MayoSalmon wrote: »

Your point?

he just said his point. You love asking questions don't u.
?????????????????????????????????????

Turtwig

How many times does it have to be said?

Trophies don't mean the best manager (or players). The best manager could easily be the guy who keeps a team punching above their weight for several seasons.

MayoSalmon

Turtwig wrote: »

How many times does it have to be said?

Trophies don't mean the best manager (or players). The best manager could easily be the guy who keeps a team punching above their weight for several seasons.

Like David Moyes:pac::pac:

Turtwig

Decent manager just didn't work out for him at United.

Hannibal

Turtwig wrote: »

How many times does it have to be said?
Trophies don't mean the best manager (or players). The best manager could easily be the guy who keeps a team punching above their weight for several seasons.

that term was one that David Moyes once laid claim to!!

You could have a manager like Brian Clough for example. Got Derby promoted and won the English league and got to the semis of the European Cup.
He got Nottm Forest promoted and won the English league and then won consecutive European Cups

bradlente

niallo27 wrote: »

Is he doing the job though. He is two points behind a liverpool side that finished 7th last season. City will pass them out next week. All this playing ****e football.

We only really see this style in the big games.When it comes down to every other team Chelsea can't do it because this only really works against the best teams.Hence the reason Sam used it on Chelsea earlier in the season.:pac:

He's a brilliant man manager.I think he consistently manages to convince his players that they're the underdogs and at the same time need to prove themselves.That siege mentality that the world is against you but you have your team and manager by your side no matter what.If Chelsea get their hands on a world beater a la Messi,Ronaldo or a Suarez type I can see him cleaning up next season.The only reason he didn't at Real is because they were up against arguably the greatest team and player ever.

TheFullDuck

to use a tired cliche, its a results business at the end of the day.. i saw on opta Chelsea have gained 16 points versus the big teams, City are the next closest with 7. Theyre phenomenal results. Its against the smaller teams Chelsea got complacent and slipped up. If they had bought a half decent striker in january it could be a very different table imo.

dfx-

TheFullDuck wrote: »

to use a tired cliche, its a results business at the end of the day.. i saw on opta Chelsea have gained 16 points versus the big teams, City are the next closest with 7. Theyre phenomenal results. Its against the smaller teams Chelsea got complacent and slipped up. If they had bought a half decent striker in january it could be a very different table imo.

If it's a results business, what happened against Sunderland, Palace, WBA and Villa. Why is it Mourinho gets the credit for big game 'results' and the strikers/complacency/FA/UEFA/Unicef/Mike Riley get the blame when they don't get small game results.

The truth is probably nearer that his style is as flawed as anyone else.

TheFullDuck

dfx- wrote: »

If it's a results business, what happened against Sunderland, Palace, WBA and Villa. Why is it Mourinho gets the credit for big game 'results' and the strikers/complacency/FA/UEFA/Unicef/Mike Riley get the blame when they don't get small game results.

The truth is probably nearer that his style is as flawed as anyone else.

good point, I would think that he's excellent at motivating his players up for the big games and against smaller opposition he sometimes considers his tactics and players superior to them and this complacency passes on to his players.
Blaming the FA/UEFA/Mike Riley is deflecting blame and attention from his players and the poor result and onto others, same as when he claimed chelsea were not ready to win the PL this year. A trick he played a bit too much I think which eventually got into his players heads. I do agree though, he has his flaws, interesting character though.

dfx-

Yet it doesn't always work in big games either.

The poor record in Clasicos against Guardiola. The 5-0 defeat in the Nou Camp. Seven CL semi-finals - 14 games - and only progression to two finals I think. People seem to choose which games to remember