Won't believe I am Agnostic?!!

HavingCrack

Hey everyone. I've always been quite sceptical about Chrisitanity but it's only within the last year or so that I've really begun to identify as an Agnostic and quite recently I've begun to flirt quite heavily with Buddhism :P

But anyway in a couple of conversations I've had about religion etc. the question of beliefs has come up and being in the company of friends I had no problem telling them I was an agnostic. However on all occasions people go ah but you're still a Catholic really and you'll give up that atheist guff as you get older. It's as if people just can't accept that I am not a Catholic anymore

Has anyone else had this sort of experience?? It's slightly weird to say the least...

bionic.laura

This is fairly common I believe.

You also commonly get. We are Catholic but sure we don't believe that stuff about
1. Contraception
2. Abortion
3. Gays
4. Weekly Cannibalism
5. Virgin Birth
6. Resurrection
7. Pre marital sex
8. Euthanasia
9. Suicide
10.Womens rights
11....100

So the argument you tend to get is . You are really Catholic even though you say you aren't and I am even though I hold several beliefs that mean in Catholic law I am not.

GLaDOS

My parents said something similar when I brought up the prospect of what they would say in the census, both said they were Catholics immediately, despite not practising it in any discernible way. It's just bet into some people I suppose.

Teferi

bionic.laura wrote: »

This is fairly common I believe.

You also commonly get. We are Catholic but sure we don't believe that stuff about
1. Contraception
2. Abortion
3. Gays
4. Weekly Cannibalism
5. Virgin Birth
6. Resurrection
7. Pre marital sex
8. Euthanasia
9. Suicide
10.Womens rights
11....100

So the argument you tend to get is . You are really Catholic even though you say you aren't and I am even though I hold several beliefs that mean in Catholic law I am not.

I'm an Atheist...still Catholic... [/Dara O'Brien]

hiorta

There is a term for those who refute notions of the Trinity, the Divinity of Jesus and the Atonement - Socinians.
This seems a more honest stance for many who might be at a transitional stage of evolution.

Zillah

HavingCrack wrote: »

Has anyone else had this sort of experience?? It's slightly weird to say the least...

See, I'd usually handle this by going off on a scathing rant about how corrupt the Church is, how absurd and embarassing their beliefs are, how intellectually laughable their claims and how sick and depressing their values are.

After that they'd find it pretty difficult to consider me a Catholic. Being agnostic might make such a polemic more difficult but I think you can throw something together.

HavingCrack

Teferi wrote: »

I'm an Atheist...still Catholic... [/Dara O'Brien]

HavingCrack

Zillah wrote: »

See, I'd usually handle this by going off on a scathing rant about how corrupt the Church is, how absurd and embarassing their beliefs are, how intellectually laughable their claims and how sick and depressing their values are.

After that they'd find it pretty difficult to consider me a Catholic. Being agnostic might make such a polemic more difficult but I think you can throw something together.

Yeah I'm usually quite respectful of others religious beliefs as long as they don't attempt to force them upon me so attacking them in such a manner wouldn't be my usual course of action unless someone was really pissing me off! I might try cobble together an argument for furture occasions though :rolleyes:

Galvasean

bionic.laura wrote: »

This is fairly common I believe.

You also commonly get. We are Catholic but sure we don't believe that stuff about
1. Contraception
2. Abortion
3. Gays
4. Weekly Cannibalism
5. Virgin Birth
6. Resurrection
7. Pre marital sex
8. Euthanasia
9. Suicide
10.Womens rights
11....100

So the argument you tend to get is . You are really Catholic even though you say you aren't and I am even though I hold several beliefs that mean in Catholic law I am not.

I've said this to a lot of people. Some of them stopped and said, "Hey that's a good point" while others simply get hyper defensive, "YOU CANT MAKE YOURSELF UNCATHOLIC, YOU GOT BAPTISED DID THE CONFIRMATION THAT MEANS YOURE A CATHOLIC!!!".
I prefer talking to people in the former style.

Truley

So are you a Catholic athiest or a Protestant athiest?

unamused

Im an atheist and due to give birth in the next few months and had a recent conversation with the in-laws about christening my baby as they are quite religious when I told them i was an atheist they just laughed and said yeah but your just a non practising catholic at which point I informed them that whether practising or non practising you still believe there is a god whereas I know there is no such thing as god to which i got a stunned silence reply

I plan on having a baby naming ceremony to introduce the little one to the family and unlike religious affairs it wont rotate around the adults getting pissed

Galvasean

unamused wrote: »

Im an atheist and due to give birth in the next few months and had a recent conversation with the in-laws about christening my baby as they are quite religious when I told them i was an atheist they just laughed and said yeah but your just a non practising catholic at which point I informed them that whether practising or non practising you still believe there is a god whereas I know there is no such thing as god to which i got a stunned silence reply

I plan on having a baby naming ceremony to introduce the little one to the family and unlike religious affairs it wont rotate around the adults getting pissed

I wish more people had that kind of attitude toward raising their children. Far too many people pump money into a church they don't believe in by means of christenings, communions etc. just because it's 'the done thing' or 'everybody else does it'.

furiousox

You CAN make yourself 'uncatholic' here www.countmeout.ie

I've done it and I don't regret it for a second, quite liberating to be free of the shackles of organised religion actually.

Peanut

HavingCrack wrote: »

..the question of beliefs has come up and being in the company of friends I had no problem telling them I was an agnostic. However on all occasions people go ah but you're still a Catholic really and you'll give up that atheist guff as you get older.

Tell them you're not an atheist then.

In my opinion most people identify as Catholics in this country for cultural rather than religious reasons. Their real religious persuasion usually has elements of agnosticism and humanism in it, they just don't realise that's what it is.

Zillah

unamused wrote: »

I plan on having a baby naming ceremony to introduce the little one to the family and unlike religious affairs it wont rotate around the adults getting pissed

Ah here, let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater.

sensibleken

yep.

i identified myself as 'not a christian' from about 16 yrs old. several guys in school argued 'you are a catholic, your irish therefore your a catholic, its the same thing', to which i replied he was a moron.

and recently it was 'you cant be an athiest that means you believe in nothing, you have to belive in something' to which i replied no thats a nihilist, i believe its your round.

just shout 'hail satan' and theyll leave you alone

axer

furiousox wrote: »

You CAN make yourself 'uncatholic' here www.countmeout.ie

I've done it and I don't regret it for a second, quite liberating to be free of the shackles of organised religion actually.

Yes, this was part of the reason I defected. You can unequivocally say you are not a member of the RCC and I find people accept that more.

HavingCrack

Peanut wrote: »

Tell them you're not an atheist then.

In my opinion most people identify as Catholics in this country for cultural rather than religious reasons. Their real religious persuasion usually has elements of agnosticism and humanism in it, they just don't realise that's what it is.

A lot of people seem to be confused as to the difference between an atheist and an agnostic even after I explain it to them!:mad:

HavingCrack

sensibleken wrote: »

yep.



just shout 'hail satan' and theyll leave you alone

Galvasean

sensibleken wrote: »

i identified myself as 'not a christian' from about 16 yrs old. several guys in school argued 'you are a catholic, your irish therefore your a catholic, its the same thing', to which i replied he was a moron.

Oh my gawd, you atheists, always calling religious people stupid!

axer

Galvasean wrote: »

Oh my gawd, you atheists, always calling religious people stupid!

Are they not fundamentally so?

Galvasean

axer wrote: »

Are they not fundamentally so?

Bigot! *writes to Daily Mail*

axer

Galvasean wrote: »

Bigot! *writes to Daily Mail*

:pac:

strobe

sensibleken wrote: »

just shout 'hail satan' and theyll leave you alone

:pac: This became pretty much my standard response as a young teenager when questioned on why I wasn't a Catholic/Christian. Telling someone I was an atheist and having to get into that whole conversation with them got very tedious pretty quickly. So for years I just claimed to be a commited Satanist when questioned on my religious affiliation.

Bizarely I found that in a lot of cases some Christians seemed to have far less of a problem with me being a worshiper of the architect of all the sin and evil in the universe than a worshiper of nobody....... I guess it was just easier for them to wrap their heads around that idea.

"Well he might worship the eternal enemy of my God, but at least he worships" sort of thing. Weird.

Galvasean

strobe wrote: »

"Well he might worship the eternal enemy of my God, but at least he worships" sort of thing. Weird.

"I mean not believing in God is one thing, but an atheist?!?!?!?"

sensibleken

sensibleken wrote: »

and recently it was 'you cant be an athiest that means you believe in nothing, you have to belive in something'

I got that when I was away in irish college at 14... she launched into "atheists believe in NOTHING that's so depressing " etc
I was a bit

cypharius

strobe wrote: »

:pac: This became pretty much my standard response as a young teenager when questioned on why I wasn't a Catholic/Christian. Telling someone I was an atheist and having to get into that whole conversation with them got very tedious pretty quickly. So for years I just claimed to be a commited Satanist when questioned on my religious affiliation.

Bizarely I found that in a lot of cases some Christians seemed to have far less of a problem with me being a worshiper of the architect of all the sin and evil in the universe than a worshiper of nobody....... I guess it was just easier for them to wrap their heads around that idea.

"Well he might worship the eternal enemy of my God, but at least he worships" sort of thing. Weird.

Before, during and after my confo(Which I technicly didn't make because I didn't know the words and just mumbled instead) I was an Atheist and my Mother just wouldn't accept that. So one day I told her I was a Satanist(When talking about how Metal was asociated with such), and ever since she has accepted that I am indeed an Atheist.

Galvasean

You can be an atheist and still worship the devil. Last time I checked he failed in hid attempt to become a God.

Gregor Samsa

unamused wrote: »

I plan on having a baby naming ceremony to introduce the little one to the family and unlike religious affairs it wont rotate around the adults getting pissed

we had a naming ceremony for my daughter last year, and I bought €300 worth of drink for the Christian hoard that came to be bemused at our heathen folly. I endded up getting a refund on €255 of it. My atheist mates were the only ones who drank any of it, and even then, they didn't go mad.

Invite some Jews celebrating Purim if you want to see real religious sanctioned drunkeness.

sensibleken

ooh ooh i got it!

next time someone says they dont believe your an athiest, just say
'have faith'

booo-yah!

franklyshocked

HavingCrack wrote: »

Hey everyone. I've always been quite sceptical about Chrisitanity but it's only within the last year or so that I've really begun to identify as an Agnostic and quite recently I've begun to flirt quite heavily with Buddhism :P .

Well done at taking the first step. However. Grow a pair and lose the religious crutches.
Lets put the hocus pocus magical nonsense of religion to one side for a second.
Surely you must understand that if you are smart enough to realise that you are capable of being a good functioning human being without following catholic teaching then you are capable of doing it without replacing one set of beliefs with another. I'll admit early in my process of development I read a lot of taoism, but it was a learning process.
Agnosticism is a crutch. I believe, I just don't believe in the system.
Take the next step and leave the crutch behind

cypharius

franklyshocked wrote: »

Well done at taking the first step. However. Grow a pair and lose the religious crutches.
Lets put the hocus pocus magical nonsense of religion to one side for a second.
Surely you must understand that if you are smart enough to realise that you are capable of being a good functioning human being without following catholic teaching then you are capable of doing it without replacing one set of beliefs with another. I'll admit early in my process of development I read a lot of taoism, but it was a learning process.
Agnosticism is a crutch. I believe, I just don't believe in the system.
Take the next step and leave the crutch behind

Don't troll.

franklyshocked

cypharius wrote: »

Don't troll.

And you got trolling out of that from?

Its an amazing sense of liberation when you wake up from needing to follow a structured belief system.
I Genuinely believe that this person is on the right path but the next step needs a leap of "faith" or sometimes a push.
Apologies to the agnostics for sounding harsh

cypharius

franklyshocked wrote: »

And you got trolling out of that from?

Its an amazing sense of liberation when you wake up from needing to follow a structured belief system.
I Genuinely believe that this person is on the right path but the next step needs a leap of "faith" or sometimes a push.
Apologies to the agnostics for sounding harsh

I know all about liberation from not following a belief system... but that doesn't mean being an Atheist. Agnostics and Deists don't follow a structure either.

axer

franklyshocked wrote: »

Its an amazing sense of liberation when you wake up from needing to follow a structured belief system.
I Genuinely believe that this person is on the right path but the next step needs a leap of "faith" or sometimes a push.

No he/she doesn't need any leap of "faith" or push - doing that makes you no better than any religious people doing the same thing.

franklyshocked wrote: »

Its an amazing sense of liberation when you wake up from needing to follow a structured belief system not recognising God.
I Genuinely believe that this person is on the right path but the next step needs a leap of faith or sometimes a push.

How would you like if a religious person said this to you?

Dades

cypharius wrote: »

Don't troll.

People are far to quick to accuse people of trolling. If you think someone is a troll - report the post.

Turtwig

Dades wrote: »

People are far to quick to accuse people of trolling. If you think someone is a troll - report the post.

Don't troll Dades.....oh!:o

HavingCrack

franklyshocked wrote: »

Well done at taking the first step. However. Grow a pair and lose the religious crutches.
Lets put the hocus pocus magical nonsense of religion to one side for a second.
Surely you must understand that if you are smart enough to realise that you are capable of being a good functioning human being without following catholic teaching then you are capable of doing it without replacing one set of beliefs with another. I'll admit early in my process of development I read a lot of taoism, but it was a learning process.
Agnosticism is a crutch. I believe, I just don't believe in the system.
Take the next step and leave the crutch behind

I think you misunderstand my religious viewpoint to be honest. While I am extremely sceptical of any form of God existing Buddhism does not have any belief in a God. Most of the rest of Buddhism (meditation, peacefulness etc. are things i quite enjoy ). Buddhism can't really be classified as a religion anyway.

[-0-]

furiousox wrote: »

You CAN make yourself 'uncatholic' here www.countmeout.ie

I've done it and I don't regret it for a second, quite liberating to be free of the shackles of organised religion actually.

I've just completed this and I'll be sending it around to all of my Atheist mates. Thanks!