Anti-Muslim threads

irishconvert

Hi Guys,

I am getting really fed up of reading all the ignorant anti-Muslim threads on boards, especially in the After Hours forum. Unfounded comments implying such things as all Muslim men beat their wives, Islam supports honour killing or FGM, appear time and time again. In my eyes it comes down to religious hatred and it is totally unacceptable.

Is there something that can be done about this?

Thanks,
IrishConvert

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=66017689#post66017689

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=66018017#post66018017

Darlughda

What are trying to do, Irishconvert?

Get threads closed down because you don't like some people highlighting the issues of domestic abuse, rape, torture, forced marriages and silence endured by SOME (see my last post re: problem of statistics) muslim women?

Sharpshooter

irishconvert wrote: »

Hi Guys,

I am getting really fed up of reading all the ignorant anti-Muslim threads on boards, especially in the After Hours forum. Unfounded comments implying such things as all Muslim men beat their wives, Islam supports honour killing or FGM, appear time and time again. In my eyes it comes down to religious hatred and it is totally unacceptable.

Is there something that can be done about this?

Thanks,
IrishConvert

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=66017689#post66017689

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=66018017#post66018017

I agree, they are not threads for After Hours for obvious reasons, see above.

As an AH mod I too would like to see an end to these threads in our forum.

They have no place there and really belong in the Islam Forum where facts can be dealt with by mods who know the score when it comes down to dealing with threads and posts on this topic.

Darlughda

So the thread has been locked.
I understand, Sharpshooter, that such a thread dealing with islam would be a hassle to moderate, but I disagree strongly with the idea of banning such threads.

I would not go near the Islam forum for any discussion because I am not an expert on Islamic law, custom and religious texts, and the charter is so prohibitive to an average poster, especially one who does not agree with the view of women in that particular culture, that it would be easy to get a ban and the discussion would be over before it had even started properly.

That is what is great about After Hours.
It is possible to have an easier discussion. The posts I made were concerning domestic violence and murder of Islamic women.
There are no official statistics available yet from womens' aid or the rape crisis centre on this.

This is for a number of reasons. In a few years this kind of evidence will probably be published. In the meantime, anecdotes, muslim women and men coming out as solo voices talking about this issue should not be ignored. The silence and fear that permeates this whole issue is part of the problem with recording statistics and then if anyone like myself talks about the issue, the immediate fashionable accusation is that we are islamophobic or sensationalist.

Is Islam worse or better that other cultures when it comes to these horrors? I don't honestly know, but the discussion of this should not be silenced on a forum such as After Hours.

Tom Dunne

irishconvert wrote: »

Is there something that can be done about this?

Yes, yes there is.

Darlughda wrote: »

What are trying to do, Irishconvert?

While I don't want to put words in his mouth, I would imagine he is trying to highlight the hypocritical, hysterical, one-sided, ill-informed nonsense that occurred in that particular thread.

I would wager the vast majority of people on that thread have no direct experience of either Muslims or Muslim society and as such, fail to see the one-sided version of things we get in the West.

Last time I checked, Irish society had problems with domestic abuse, child abuse, alcohol abuse and much more besides.

Kudos to Sharpshooter for closing that thread when she did.

Darlughda

Tom Dunne wrote: »

I would imagine he is trying to highlight the hypocritical, hysterical, one-sided, ill-informed nonsense that occurred in that particular thread.
.

Great. So you are telling me that the hidden and silenced issue of women being beaten, raped and murdered is what I have highlighted in bold, because I am talking about Islam, and therefore its just islamaphobia, not at all possibly the truth?

Tom Dunne

Darlughda wrote: »

Great. So you are telling me that the hidden and silenced issue of women being beaten, raped and murdered is what I have highlighted in bold, because I am talking about Islam, and therefore its just islamaphobia, not at all possibly the truth?

Show me where I said that. Nobody mentioned Islamaphobia until you did.

I have no problem with such discussions as long as they are reasoned, informed and avoid generalisations and stereotypes.

Digging up some random link on the internet does not make a discussion informed.

Tell me something - what direct exposure to Muslims and Muslim society do you have?

Darlughda

Tom Dunne wrote: »

Show me where I said that. Nobody mentioned Islamaphobia until you did.

A concise title for what Irish Convert was claiming.

I have no problem with such discussions as long as they are reasoned, informed and avoid generalisations and stereotypes.

Maybe you should avoid After Hours so. Discussions there are rarely like this, but usually those threads don't get locked.

Digging up some random link on the internet does not make a discussion informed.

Read my last post on that thread again. And as I mentioned in my post above, because of the silence and fear, there are enormous difficulties in collating statistics, therefore it could be some time before official figures are available from womens aid.

Tell me something - what direct exposure to Muslims and Muslim society do you have?

Again read my last post on that thread. I also know of many people working with Immigrant women in Ireland, and have had discussions where they have informed me about what is really happening in Britain and does not get reported.

Tom Dunne

Darlughda wrote: »

Again read my last post on that thread. I also know of many people working with Immigrant women in Ireland, and have had discussions where they have informed me about what is really happening in Britain and does not get reported.

So, correct me if I am wrong here, you have worked with one Muslim immigrant woman? Is that all?

Jazzy

oh sweet. shall we discuss that drain on western economies in a place with very obvious walls (islam forum - they say no to pics of mohammed) or a place where reason and anti-trolling is enforced and more opinions are garnered, such as after hours? is it too much hassle for AH mods? should it be limited to speech with respect just because of the image that exists or should it be speech in the gain of recognition of others and what they say and how they act?

do you want to limit or do you want to expand? probably limit, everyone is all ya know, sensitive over it. there is no reason to limit speech on islam at all on after hours, no more so then paedo-catholic priests and the flat earth society, but it will be done. why? because of derp de derp. people dont really know what to say, they run with a magic ball and when asked "is that a touchdown?" they can only give what rob schneider says - derp.

this thread is really a big load of my fat sweaty sack and doesnt really need to exist. it needs existence in the same way the flat earth society mocking needs to be toned down. unfortunately, islam is in no special position to not be ripped out of and if people get upset - fukin boo hoo. how about we bring up womens rights in iran and the great work of Shirin Ebadi. would that suit? would it suit to talk about how fukin utterly backwards some groups of islam extremists are?

where is the limit on talking about idiot christians who deny evolution and science and all that ****?


the only arguement i can actually give credit to in this case is the fact that there are tons and tons of retards that post on boards and they might not know how to post on islam normally and logically and will just turn it into a dribble fest where the loudest ultimately ruin the thread and leave any points in the dust and where dumbass zealots try and scrape some long forgotten barrel. if that is the case, ban any conversation that might have to do with anything important

Cabaal

Jazzy wrote: »

this thread is really a big load of my fat sweaty sack and doesnt really need to exist. it needs existence in the same way the flat earth society mocking needs to be toned down. unfortunately, islam is in no special position to not be ripped out of and if people get upset - fukin boo hoo. how about we bring up womens rights in iran and the great work of Shirin Ebadi. would that suit? would it suit to talk about how fukin utterly backwards some groups of islam extremists are?

The problem is is that alot of the time when people refer to Islam and Muslims but don't state that they are simply referring to extremists, there are extremists in every religion or belief system but its unfair to tar everyone with the one brush.

This goes for Catholics, Muslims etc

As such until people make it clear that they are referring to extremists and not the whole belief system then this thread imho is valid, its like referring to all Catholics as kid beating sexual perverts...your only doing it for a reaction when you know for a fact its not true.

Eliot Rosewater

Sharpshooter wrote: »

They have no place there and really belong in the Islam Forum ...

I disagree. From the Rule #1 sticky on the Islam forum:

This forum is not open for you to attack the Islam religon nor is it a forum for people of that faith to have to constantly defend their faith from attack.

I'd say Humanities would be better suited to these kind of conversations. The mod there is generally pretty strict on discussion standards, which would cut down on the kind of crap that came out in that AH thread. Saying that, the opening post wasn't exactly a Humanities style opening, and I don't know if that thread would have even been allowed to breath in Humanties.

Jazzy

Cabaal wrote: »

The problem is is that alot of the time when people refer to Islam and Muslims but don't state that they are simply referring to extremists, there are extremists in every religion or belief system but its unfair to tar everyone with the one brush.

This goes for Catholics, Muslims etc

As such until people make it clear that they are referring to extremists and not the whole belief system then this thread imho is valid, its like referring to all Catholics as kid beating sexual perverts...your only doing it for a reaction when you know for a fact its not true.

so why dont we tone down the calling of priests paedos? how about we tone down the calling of far right christian idiots, um idiots? islam isnt special. its not step above any other religion and just because some nasty little men who know how to manipulate other nasty, albeit stupider men, into blowing themselves and others up does not make them a fukin special case.

again, its a question of how much you trust the general public, the posters on after hours. are they that retarded is the question

Rabies

irishconvert wrote: »

Hi Guys,

I am getting really fed up of reading all the ignorant anti-Muslim threads on boards, especially in the After Hours forum. Unfounded comments implying such things as all Muslim men beat their wives, Islam supports honour killing or FGM, appear time and time again. In my eyes it comes down to religious hatred and it is totally unacceptable.

Is there something that can be done about this?

Thanks,
IrishConvert

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=66017689#post66017689

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=66018017#post66018017

It comes down to religious misunderstanding and ignorance.
Blame western media and pop culture.

People don't think for themselves anymore.

I welcome both sides of the argument over religion. Prove those that taking stereotypes to the extreme wrong. Get the proper info out there.
SS was right to close the thread if it was one sided and full of misinformed and disillusioned posters and not a proper debate.
I've no problem with a reasonable debate going on in AH or someone trying to explain to the AH masses how their point of view on the muslim culture is flawed.

Some of my mates are muslim, so I know where they're coming from. But hey, I mod Nein 11 so my opinion might be tarnished

DeVore

I love the way people say "isnt there anything that can be done"... well let me just look it up here in my Big Book Of Answers!!

I dunno, what do you want to see done OP?

Personally I:

1. wouldnt worry a great deal about a nasty thread in AH
2. would move it to Humanities

I'm with Jazzy on not locking up the right to criticise religions or indeed anything, but I'm also for civility (and a few people here, Jazzy included, could do with some).

It doesn't belong in the Islam Forum so I think Humanities would be the best place for them, or the bin if its just a soapbox rant.

DeV.

Darlughda

Considering Irishconverter singled out two of my posts and nobody else on the thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055918650

I will not accept his claim that I am 'anti-muslim'.

There's a lot of condescending stuff in this feedback thread about posting style. I'm not going to be a scapegoat for allegations of islamaphobia nor am I going to be an apologist for having a western viewpoint, the points I was trying to make were regarding women and violence.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=66023423&postcount=53

Dudess

I agree with Jazzy - why let hate-stirrers cause a thread to be locked? Surely just leave the thread open and warn/ban them - or at least ask them to provide back-up.
And yeah, I'm not a fan of the catholic church and I'm an atheist, but utter bile gets spewed in relation to the CC and it seems to be fair game - there aren't cries of sectarianism.

Bonito

You could always do what I do. Stay out of ALL religion threads. Why? Well, to start with, I can't be bothered reading throught tripe such as "Yeah, well, Muslim men beat their wives" and "Yeah, well, Irish priests rape your children".

These sort of arguments are for small minded people and remind me of those days as a kid were you'd see two kids having an argument consisting of "Yeah, well, my dad would kill your dad".

If it's stopping you sleeping soundly at night then maybe you should thicken your skin or just stay away from AH. Or, you could always, yano, not click in to the thread?

twinQuins

I think with the RCC it's a little different. There, it's a criticism of the religious leaders of the Church. Islam is much more fractured and lacks a similar, single larger denomination (I could be wrong about that but it's the impression I get.), so it's more difficult to simply target one denomination and say "they're the bad guys, the other ones are okay".

As well as that, the events of the previous number of years have caused people to attack not the religious leaders of Islam but ordinary Muslims. And this is where it gets interesting because it's not just the extremists but all Muslims that are painted as barbarous and a danger to Western society.

Are there Catholic analogues to the likes of Jihadwatch and FrontPage Magazine? If there are I haven't seen them but when you see sites like that and even books being published that are little more than thinly veiled xenophobic diatribes it's hard not to think that they're being unfairly targeted.

EDIT: Bonito, I see your point but shouldn't there be some standards? I'm not saying we should start censoring unpleasant viewpoints but where it's a case of ignorant soapboxing based on generalisations and hearsay what purpose does that serve?

WindSock

Cabaal wrote: »

The problem is is that alot of the time when people refer to Islam and Muslims but don't state that they are simply referring to extremists, there are extremists in every religion or belief system but its unfair to tar everyone with the one brush.

Surely the best place to challenge that attitude is in AH? Locking threads that come across as anti-Islamic while leaving open the paedo church ones make it look as if Islamic threads must get special treatment over others, and hardly does much but irk the anti-Islamicists even further.

Whatever happend to challenging the misinformed on a thread rather than out and out calling for it to be locked and telling posters to move along now?

irishconvert

Darlughda wrote: »

Tom Dunne wrote: »

While I don't want to put words in his mouth, I would imagine he is trying to highlight the hypocritical, hysterical, one-sided, ill-informed nonsense that occurred in that particular thread.

I would wager the vast majority of people on that thread have no direct experience of either Muslims or Muslim society and as such, fail to see the one-sided version of things we get in the West.

Last time I checked, Irish society had problems with domestic abuse, child abuse, alcohol abuse and much more besides.

Kudos to Sharpshooter for closing that thread when she did.

Exactly my feelings Tom. :-)

irishconvert

Darlughda wrote: »

Great. So you are telling me that the hidden and silenced issue of women being beaten, raped and murdered is what I have highlighted in bold, because I am talking about Islam, and therefore its just islamaphobia, not at all possibly the truth?

You seem to have come across one Muslim who is being abused (which I condem of course). Is this the only Muslim person you know? Why don't you also talk about the many Irish women who are abused by their husbands? Why single out Muslims?

And since you brought up honour killings, Honour killings are something that is totally forbidden in Islam. If you had bothered to do any research whatsoever you would have discovered that. You would also have discovered that it happend in Christian, Hindu and Sikh families also.

Are you aware that in 2003 at least 1 in 12 honour killings investigated by Scotland Yard was comitted by Christians?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3149030.stm

BBC wrote:

Scotland Yard believe there were 12 'honour killings' in the UK last year and said they were not restricted to Muslims, but also occurred in Sikh and Christian families.

A specialist police unit is researching the practice but police say only a handful of people believed 'honour killings' were an appropriate cultural response.

irishconvert

DeVore wrote: »

I love the way people say "isnt there anything that can be done"... well let me just look it up here in my Big Book Of Answers!!

I dunno, what do you want to see done OP?

Personally I:

1. wouldnt worry a great deal about a nasty thread in AH
2. would move it to Humanities

I'm with Jazzy on not locking up the right to criticise religions or indeed anything, but I'm also for civility (and a few people here, Jazzy included, could do with some).

It doesn't belong in the Islam Forum so I think Humanities would be the best place for them, or the bin if its just a soapbox rant.

DeV.

Hi DeVore,

Are anti-sematic posts allowed on Boards? Are anti-Black posts allowed? If they are not allowed then I think anti-Islam posts should be disallowed also. I have no problem with people bring up relevant questions about Islam, or talking about what they don't like about is, as long as it is informed discussion. But every day there is a new anti-Islamic post (especially in After Hours) with bull saying Islam promoted Female genital mutilation, encourages terrorist attacks against westerners, etc. It totally false and I feel it should not be allowed.

Thanks,
IrishConvert.

Doctor DooM

irishconvert wrote: »

You seem to have come across one Muslim who is being abused (which I condem of course). Is this the only Muslim person you know? Why don't you also talk about the many Irish women who are abused by their husbands? Why single out Muslims?

And since you brought up honour killings, Honour killings are something that is totally forbidden in Islam. If you had bothered to do any research whatsoever you would have discovered that. You would also have discovered that it happend in Christian, Hindu and Sikh families also.

Are you aware that in 2003 at least 1 in 12 honour killings investigated by Scotland Yard was comitted by Christians?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3149030.stm

Sorry, you're just playing the victim card here.

Go check out how many "paedo priest" threads have been made recently in AH.

It's all religion which is unpopular in Ireland right now, not just yours.

I have often said this and will continue to say this.

I respect your right to hold beliefs but I do not by definition respect those beliefs.

In this case, I don't think it's fair to decry the AH mods for not wanting to handle this thread though. Look at the job the Atheism, Christianity, and indeed Islam mods have looking after those single topics.

It should be an open topic imo- no religion should be placed above derision, that's when people get hurt, and I am talking about Christian religions when I say that- but you can't blame the AH mods for not being able to handle the kind of uninformed rubbish that can get posted on either side.

irishconvert

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Sorry, you're just playing the victim card here.

Go check out how many "paedo priest" threads have been made recently in AH.

It's all religion which is unpopular in Ireland right now, not just yours.

I have often said this and will continue to say this.

I respect your right to hold beliefs but I do not by definition respect those beliefs.

In this case, I don't think it's fair to decry the AH mods for not wanting to handle this thread though. Look at the job the Atheism, Christianity, and indeed Islam mods have looking after those single topics.

It should be an open topic imo- no religion should be placed above derision, that's when people get hurt, and I am talking about Christian religions when I say that- but you can't blame the AH mods for not being able to handle the kind of uninformed rubbish that can get posted on either side.

If there are priests who use boards, they too should be speaking up against the rubbish being written about them. But that is their call. I am here to speak up against the rising amount of anti-Islamic threads on boards, especially in After Hours.

All I am asking is that blatant anti-Islamic comments (the mods are clever enough to pick them out) are not allowed in the same way as anti-sematic or anti-black comments would not be allowed. By the way, I have no problem with critism of Islam or any religion.

dr.bollocko

Locking a thread on a contraversial topic that has descended into bile / trolling is not tantamount to a policy decision. It's just good moderating.

Scofferately,
Bollocko.

Doctor DooM

irishconvert wrote: »

If there are priests who use boards, they too should be speaking up against the rubbish being written about them. But that is their call. I am here to speak up against the rising amount of anti-Islamic threads on boards, especially in After Hours.

All I am asking is that blatant anti-Islamic comments (the mods are clever enough to pick them out) are not allowed in the same way as anti-sematic or anti-black comments would not be allowed. By the way, I have no problem with critism of Islam or any religion.

?

This directly conflicts the post which I quoted.

You have now changed from "my religion is getting picked on" to "my race is being picked on" when being disproved. Which is it? Both?

Racist comments are not allowed. Religious discussion is.

If someone posts inaccurate information about Islam, why don't you defend it like several members of the Christianity forum do in the Atheist forum?

The Recliner

irishconvert wrote: »

If there are priests who use boards, they too should be speaking up against the rubbish being written about them. But that is their call. I am here to speak up against the rising amount of anti-Islamic threads on boards, especially in After Hours.

All I am asking is that blatant anti-Islamic comments (the mods are clever enough to pick them out) are not allowed in the same way as anti-sematic or anti-black comments would not be allowed. By the way, I have no problem with critism of Islam or any religion.

Surely the best way of getting the truth about Islam out to the masses is to reply on these threads and explain where the mis-concieved ideas are

Report the trolling or malicious posts and let the mods deal with them and show people the error of their ideas in relation to Islam

No need to lock the threads just because of its subject matter unless there is absolutely no way of controlling them and they are causing too many bannings and too much work, let people talk and discuss, it is what we are here for

Dudess

irishconvert wrote: »

Are anti-sematic posts allowed on Boards? Are anti-Black posts allowed?

They're not - and anti Islam posts shouldn't be allowed either, but that doesn't mean threads containing them should be locked, nor should criticism of the customs of fanatics be deemed anti Islam.

irishconvert

The Recliner wrote: »

Surely the best way of getting the truth about Islam out to the masses is to reply on these threads and explain where the mis-concieved ideas are

Report the trolling or malicious posts and let the mods deal with them and show people the error of their ideas in relation to Islam

No need to lock the threads just because of its subject matter unless there is absolutely no way of controlling them and they are causing too many bannings and too much work, let people talk and discuss, it is what we are here for

I agree with you Recliner, and I am not calling for threads to be be locked. But certain people who continuously post anti-Islamic comments, stating them as facts without giving any evidence, should be warned and banned if they don't stop.

irishconvert

Dudess wrote: »

They're not - and anti Islam posts shouldn't be allowed either, but that doesn't mean threads containing them should be locked, nor should criticism of the customs of fanatics be deemed anti Islam.

I don't disagree with you. And I did not call for entire threads to be locked.