Anti-Muslim threads

Doctor DooM

irishconvert wrote: »

I agree with you Recliner, and I am not calling for threads to be be locked. But certain people who continuously post anti-Islamic comments, stating them as facts without giving any evidence, should be warned and banned if they don't stop.

Realistically speaking, this would mean every single mod on boards who may potentially run into discussion on religion should be an expert on every single religion. Otherwise, how can they judge what's made up or not?

This leads us back to "defend your position".

Darlughda

irishconvert wrote: »

You seem to have come across one Muslim who is being abused (which I condem of course). Is this the only Muslim person you know?

No. I have met many muslim people. That particular woman was how I became aware of the whole hidden area of violence and abuse that immigrant muslim women were subjected to. Don't try to use the old chestnut oh 'is this the only person of this culture you know' card. Am I now officially on 'trial' for being anti-muslim, or am I just a useful scapegoat here?

Why don't you also talk about the many Irish women who are abused by their husbands?

Oh I do. Frequently. When people are in denial and don't like to admit these things.

Why single out Muslims?

Because the thread was about Saudi women fighting back.

And since you brought up honour killings, Honour killings are something that is totally forbidden in Islam.

So, I hear. Doesn't stop it being prevalent though, like many things that are totally forbidden in Islam.

If you had bothered to do any research whatsoever you would have discovered that.

I did a lot of research. As I said above.

You would also have discovered that it happend in Christian, Hindu and Sikh families also.

Indeed, I did discover this too. Funny how it tends to happen most in Muslim majority countries.

Are you aware that in 2003 at least 1 in 12 honour killings investigated by Scotland Yard was comitted by Christians?

What about the other 11 out of 12?

I'm not a fan of any organised religion. But I have particular objections to authoritarian patriarchal ones.

Sugarcoat and deny it anyway you want, islam is objectionable to women's rights and freedoms. You find my posts offensive, I find another woman wearing the burkha offensive. Does that make me anti-muslim?

Dudess

Well as I understand it, the original ideals of Islam are not about violence, hatred, repressing women... but a bunch of zealots have twisted it and commanded enough power to indoctrinate an army of followers.

Something very familiar about that... :pac:

Thing is though Irish Convert, globally only a minority of muslims are fanatics and subscribe to what Darlughda is talking about, but it's nonetheless a significant minority - whole societies are built/have been built on it.

That said, saying the extremists represent all muslims and that they are what Islam is all about is just misinformed tripe, and I cringe when I see such posts. But the extremists are muslims so they are a part of the Islamic world that cannot just be brushed aside, even though it does not in the least justify hatred of all things Islam.

Cabaal

WindSock wrote: »

Surely the best place to challenge that attitude is in AH? Locking threads that come across as anti-Islamic while leaving open the paedo church ones make it look as if Islamic threads must get special treatment over others, and hardly does much but irk the anti-Islamicists even further.

Whatever happend to challenging the misinformed on a thread rather than out and out calling for it to be locked and telling posters to move along now?

I never said we should lock threads, I'm all for ensuring people know the facts.

Nobody should be allowed make crazy generalization of which I gave examples in my last post, it wouldn't be acceptable for to make them for blacks, gays or whoever but it seems to be for religion?

My name is URL

Cabaal wrote: »

I never said we should lock threads, I'm all for ensuring people know the facts.

Nobody should be allowed make crazy generalization of which I gave examples in my last post, it wouldn't be acceptable for to make them for blacks, gays or whoever but it seems to be for religion?

Being black or gay aren't matters of choice.. religion is, and therefor people should be able to question the belief and anything that goes with it. Though if personal abuse comes into play or if somebody feels offended then it should be dealt with in the normal way, imo

Darlughda

So, I seem to have become the poster girl for the average bigot who hangs out in AH.

Tell me this, since you have all decided that my posts were anti-muslim, how come I haven't been apprehened for racism as under the AH charter, and last time I checked, there was no special clause for kid gloves treatment of the Islam religion.

For the record, I have been very vocal on this site and active in my life campaigning against all religions that hide abuse and violence through smooth talking semantics, and oppressive regimes.

I am used to being called anti-christian, anti-catholic etc, but I got to say anti-muslim is a first.

Phyllis Chessler said that to critisize islam as a western feminist nowadays is to be accused of islamaphobia, anti-muslim, etc and especially from western apologists.

Not one of you on this thread nor on this whole website have said anything about the fact that I am being used here as a scapegoat for a moderator having a hissy fit about his pet religion being criticised.

Instead, without actually bothering to read the thread in question, you just take his word that I am obviously one of those mad ah savages.

How come he gets special treatment because he is peeved?

The amount of times my blood has boiled at threads on AH (full of all the stuff Tom Dunne has accused me of); regarding women, the homeless/begging, people on the dole, povery and crime well the list is endless.How come those generalisations are allowed?

D'ya know what I have to do, Irishconvert? Just suck it up.
Because hey, I'm just an average poster here, no one special, and has that been reinforced on this thread.

You must be very proud Devore, that your website truly represents Irish Society;hiding behind the perceived majority opinion and willing to slaughter whatever scapegoat is available.

I stand by the posts I made, sure I could have phrased things differently, and I probably would have retracted a couple of things had I the chance to do before the thread was locked.

Can you imagine the reception you would give me, Sharpshooter, if I had demanded an end to the bigoted 'cut the dole' thread that is still running, from which the op was incidentally banned?

The hidden story of too many muslim women hiding their bruises will eventually be collated in official statistics. In the meantime, just like in Ireland too recently, we won't even think about the uncomfortable truth and let silence prevail because the good old useful accusation of being anti-whatever is leveled at someone.

Dudess

Darlughda wrote: »

So, I seem to have become the poster girl for the average bigot who hangs out in AH.

Tell me this, since you have all decided that my posts were anti-muslim, how come I haven't been apprehened for racism as under the AH charter, and last time I checked, there was no special clause for kid gloves treatment of the Islam religion.

For the record, I have been very vocal on this site and active in my life campaigning against all religions that hide abuse and violence through smooth talking semantics, and oppressive regimes.

I am used to being called anti-christian, anti-catholic etc, but I got to say anti-muslim is a first.

Phyllis Chessler said that to critisize islam as a western feminist nowadays is to be accused of islamaphobia, anti-muslim, etc and especially from western apologists.

Not one of you on this thread nor on this whole website have said anything about the fact that I am being used here as a scapegoat for a moderator having a hissy fit about his pet religion being criticised.

Instead, without actually bothering to read the thread in question, you just take his word that I am obviously one of those mad ah savages.

Don't know what that outburst is about seeing as people here are agreeing with you, including me. And they're speaking about such discussions in general, not the one involving you specifically - I didn't even realise the OP was referring to you, thought he just meant in general.

The amount of times my blood has boiled at threads on AH (full of all the stuff Tom Dunne has accused me of); regarding women, the homeless/begging, people on the dole, povery and crime well the list is endless.

Massive +1, although it can't be easy to police every last one of them though.

Darlughda

Dudess, the opening post from irishconvert singles out two of my posts, no one elses on this thread.

Therefore my 'outburst' as you call it is in response to me being used as the example of the AH poster that is being talked about on this thread, which is why I am forced to defend myself.

Read Tom Dunne's condescending posts to me on this thread. If he has done a ninja edit one one of them, irishconverter has quoted it on page 2 or 3.

Dudess

Darlughda wrote: »

Dudess, the opening post from irishconvert singles out two of my posts, no one elses on this thread.

Therefore my 'outburst' as you call it is in response to me being used as the example of the AH poster that is being talked about on this thread, which is why I am forced to defend myself.

Read Tom Dunne's condescending posts to me on this thread. If he has done a ninja edit one one of them, irishconverter has quoted it on page 2 or 3.

What about all the posts where people say they don't think such threads should be locked? They're treating this thread as a discussion about posts deemed anti Islamic, not specifically what you said.
I said "outburst" because you were saying everyone here is calling you a bigot - wtf?

DeVore

irishconvert wrote: »

Hi DeVore,

Are anti-sematic posts allowed on Boards? Are anti-Black posts allowed? If they are not allowed then I think anti-Islam posts should be disallowed also. I have no problem with people bring up relevant questions about Islam, or talking about what they don't like about is, as long as it is informed discussion. But every day there is a new anti-Islamic post (especially in After Hours) with bull saying Islam promoted Female genital mutilation, encourages terrorist attacks against westerners, etc. It totally false and I feel it should not be allowed.

Thanks,
IrishConvert.

Actually they are, up to a point. Roughly the same point as criticisms of Islam. If you look back through Feedback we have had about racism and immigration.

Also, people are born into a their skin colour and race, where as religion is a conscious choice, and that makes a certain difference in my mind.


This isnt a thread for continuing the discussion from AH... its for discussing how we handle this sort of thing. Please, all of you, desist from debating the merits of Islam on this thread.

IrishConvert, you would ban all discussion of Islam as a topic? Including the islam forum?
If not, on what basis would you decide to (dis)allow topics?

DeV.

Darlughda

DeVore wrote: »

This isnt a thread for continuing the discussion from AH... its for discussing how we handle this sort of thing. Please, all of you, desist from debating the merits of Islam on this thread.

DeV.

Actually, Devore, considering that I am the only poster from that AH thread that was singled out by irishconverter as evidence forwhatever ludricous claims he made in the opening post, and this was blindly accepted by every poster on this thread since, I think I am fully entitled to defend my postion here, and that may include debating the merits of Islam.

Nevyn

The oppressive regimes and the abuses which happen due to them are to my mind fúck all to do with Islam but due to cultural traditions in certain countries. Culture not creed, people need to learn to seperate the two.

Darlughda

Thaedydal wrote: »

The oppressive regimes and the abuses which happen due to them are to my mind fúck all to do with Islam but due to cultural traditions in certain countries. Culture not creed, people need to learn to seperate the two.

Your opinion, Thaedydal, only. I was wondering when you'd show up.

Scripture, religious texts, cult big books of shadows whatever are full of great sentiments, the interperters create the tradition.

I thought you were the great feminist of Boards, no?

All the women who suffer from the inextricable mixture of culture and creed will surely be thanking your post.

DeVore

Darlughda wrote: »

So, I seem to have become the poster girl for the average bigot who hangs out in AH.

Tell me this, since you have all decided that my posts were anti-muslim, how come I haven't been apprehened for racism as under the AH charter, and last time I checked, there was no special clause for kid gloves treatment of the Islam religion.

For the record, I have been very vocal on this site and active in my life campaigning against all religions that hide abuse and violence through smooth talking semantics, and oppressive regimes.

I am used to being called anti-christian, anti-catholic etc, but I got to say anti-muslim is a first.

Phyllis Chessler said that to critisize islam as a western feminist nowadays is to be accused of islamaphobia, anti-muslim, etc and especially from western apologists.

Not one of you on this thread nor on this whole website have said anything about the fact that I am being used here as a scapegoat for a moderator having a hissy fit about his pet religion being criticised.

Instead, without actually bothering to read the thread in question, you just take his word that I am obviously one of those mad ah savages.

How come he gets special treatment because he is peeved?

The amount of times my blood has boiled at threads on AH (full of all the stuff Tom Dunne has accused me of); regarding women, the homeless/begging, people on the dole, povery and crime well the list is endless.How come those generalisations are allowed?

D'ya know what I have to do, Irishconvert? Just suck it up.
Because hey, I'm just an average poster here, no one special, and has that been reinforced on this thread.

You must be very proud Devore, that your website truly represents Irish Society;hiding behind the perceived majority opinion and willing to slaughter whatever scapegoat is available.

I stand by the posts I made, sure I could have phrased things differently, and I probably would have retracted a couple of things had I the chance to do before the thread was locked.

Can you imagine the reception you would give me, Sharpshooter, if I had demanded an end to the bigoted 'cut the dole' thread that is still running, from which the op was incidentally banned?

The hidden story of too many muslim women hiding their bruises will eventually be collated in official statistics. In the meantime, just like in Ireland too recently, we won't even think about the uncomfortable truth and let silence prevail because the good old useful accusation of being anti-whatever is leveled at someone.

WTF are you on about?

Seriously, my site which you then caustically abuse me for, gave you a platform. Now were are discussing if thats appropriate. You are so hypocritical its breath taking. I'm seriously so fncking angry with you about your comments its hard to be logical so I'm going to step out of this thread for the evening shortly. But how fncking dare you use the platform *I* have fought long and hard to build to abuse me over your ability to use it, an ability I'll point out, hasnt even been rescinded from you.

Wow.


DeV.

DeVore

Darlughda wrote: »

Actually, Devore, considering that I am the only poster from that AH thread that was singled out by irishconverter as evidence forwhatever ludricous claims he made in the opening post, and this was blindly accepted by every poster on this thread since, I think I am fully entitled to defend my postion here, and that may include debating the merits of Islam.

No, you arent. This is Feedback, you'll follow the charter here like everyone else. The topic is how to handle threads on islam, NOT the merits of Islam as a religion.

You and everyone else will follow that charter and stay on topic.

DeV.

Nevyn

Wearing a burka can be a choice for some muslim women and there for be a feminist act.
I loathe those who will use any holy scripture to justify acts of abuse, but painting all followers of Islam to women/wife oppressors and abuses is like saying all catholics are pedos.

I am happy to discuss the topic but will not be responding to snide personal remarks or emotive clap trap.

There are female scholars of the Koran who are feminist and there interpretations are very intresting esp when they point out what is Creed and what is Culture. I suggest you try reading some of their works. Professor Wadud is a good place to start.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_feminism

DeVore

Darlughda wrote: »

Actually, Devore, considering that I am the only poster from that AH thread that was singled out by irishconverter as evidence forwhatever ludricous claims he made in the opening post, and this was blindly accepted by every poster on this thread since, I think I am fully entitled to defend my postion here, and that may include debating the merits of Islam.

Get off the cross, theres enough of that in the world as it is.

DeV.

Darlughda

DeVore wrote: »

WTF are you on about?

Seriously, my site which you then caustically abuse me for, gave you a platform. Now were are discussing if thats appropriate. You are so hypocritical its breath taking. I'm seriously so fncking angry with you about your comments its hard to be logical so I'm going to step out of this thread for the evening. But how fncking dare you use the platform *I* have fought long and hard to build to abuse me over your ability to use it, an ability that hasnt even been rescinded from you.

Wow.


DeV.

Whats your problem?

How the hell am I hypocritical, I could level that at you +1000.

Can you not see what I am saying? Dont give me crap that I am abusing you.
You have blithely ignored the fact that a poster here was held as the only and sole example for an anti-muslim thread. How dare you pander to irishconverter and not read the two posts he cited as examples in his opening thread to this whole charade of a thread?

You did not give a damn that I was being held as THE example of AH bigotry, don't give me the claptrap that I am somehow honoured to be using your site, unless you are prepared to defend the side of the average poster.

How would you like if two of your posts had been used as the evidence for the nonesense that Irishconverter used to open this thread, and everyone who posted afterwards blithely agreed that the posts were, illinformed, ignorant, stupid, etc.?

Dudess

Darlughda wrote: »

Actually, Devore, considering that I am the only poster from that AH thread that was singled out by irishconverter as evidence forwhatever ludricous claims he made in the opening post, and this was blindly accepted by every poster on this thread since, I think I am fully entitled to defend my postion here, and that may include debating the merits of Islam.

Nobody's "blindly accepting" it, they're just not paying attention to it. You see Irishconvert's opening post as an attack on you, everyone else sees it as an invitation to discuss anti muslim sentiment in threads (real or perceived).

Darlughda

Dudess wrote: »

Nobody's "blindly accepting" it, they're just not paying attention to it. You see Irishconvert's opening post as an attack on you, everyone else sees it as an invitation to discuss anti muslim sentiment in threads (real or perceived).

Dudess, had that opening post contained only two posts as evidence for the specific claim made by irishconverter, and those two posts were yours, the only ones singled out from the thread, which were assumed by everybody else to rock solid evidence of mad AH savage on the loose, would you be so reluctant to see it as an attack on you?

Nevyn

Darlughda wrote: »

You did not give a damn that I was being held as THE example of AH bigotry, don't give me the claptrap that I am somehow honoured to be using your site, unless you are prepared to defend the side of the average poster.

How would you like if two of your posts had been used as the evidence for the nonesense that Irishconverter used to open this thread, and everyone who posted afterwards blithely agreed that the posts were, illinformed, ignorant, stupid, etc.?

If you see it as a personal attack or slur then report the posts as that and let them be reviewed rather then derailing the thread the premise of which has been laid out by one of the owners.

This is a private site and you have only what rights and entitlements which the owners bestow.

Dudess

Darlughda wrote: »

Dudess, had that opening post contained only two posts as evidence for the specific claim made by irishconverter, and those two posts were yours, the only ones singled out from the thread, which were assumed by everybody else to rock solid evidence of mad AH savage on the loose, would you be so reluctant to see it as an attack on you?

Possibly, but it's understandable that you'd notice it yourself, whereas the others whom you seem to think are supporting it, aren't taking any notice. I personally just read the opening post - didn't even link to the posts taken issue with, and viewed it as a general discussion. I don't think you're being bigoted, I think you raise some fair points - when I was referring to people who stir up hatred, I didn't mean you.
Ok, I appreciate you feel pissed off at the OP singling you out, but there have been anti Islamic posts along the lines of "They're all backward, violent nut jobs" - I took the opening post to be referring to the likes of those.

Darlughda

Thaedydal wrote: »

Wearing a burka can be a choice for some muslim women and there for be a feminist act.

If you buy into that claptrap, that's your business.

I loathe those who will use any holy scripture to justify acts of abuse, but painting all followers of Islam to women/wife oppressors and abuses is like saying all catholics are pedos.

Who the hell said anything about ALL followers of Islam?

I am happy to discuss the topic but will not be responding to snide personal remarks or emotive clap trap.

Same for me, babe.

There are female scholars of the Koran who are feminist and there interpretations are very intresting esp when they point out what is Creed and what is Culture. I suggest you try reading some of their works. Professor Wadud is a good place to start.

.

Thanks, but you are not my first choice to go to for recommendations on feminism. Why don't you read Phyllis Chesler, you might learn something about feminism and the backlash of the islamophobe label.

Nevyn

[noparse]

posters name wrote:

What they said

[/noparse] =

posters name wrote:

What they said

Darlughda

DeVore wrote: »

Get off the cross, theres enough of that in the world as it is.

DeV.

Would you be so quick and smart to say that if I was somebody with clout and a legal team behind me, who were willing to defend the fact that I have been held as an example of racism and anti-muslim on your site?

Thought not. No. I'm just jo bloggs to you. No biggie, so you feel you can dismiss me, ridicule me as you want and act the authoritarion school master.

Dudess wrote: »

Ok, I appreciate you feel pissed off at the OP singling you out, but there have been anti Islamic posts along the lines of "They're all backward, violent nut jobs" - I took the opening post to be referring to the likes of those.

Yes. But Dudess, not all people reading this have your cop on. For most, the two posts evidenced by irishconverter will be enough to villify me as a mad AH bigot.

My name is URL

Darlughda wrote: »

Dudess, had that opening post contained only two posts as evidence for the specific claim made by irishconverter, and those two posts were yours, the only ones singled out from the thread, which were assumed by everybody else to rock solid evidence of mad AH savage on the loose, would you be so reluctant to see it as an attack on you?

You're not doing yourself any favors by being so abrupt and quick to point out the injustice towards you by irishconvert.. who probably only used your posts as an example because they was there at an opportunate time for them to do so

Help Desk is for issues pertaining to decisions taken against you by mods, Feedback is for discussing what people feel is useful for ensuring it's easier for such things to be averted before they happen

I've been guilty of mistaking one for the other myself, so I'm not trying to talk down to you.. just trying to be helpful

Darlughda

My name is URL wrote: »

just trying to be helpful

You're not.

I was used as the example in this thread of anti-muslim whatever, so here I will stay.

Nevyn

Darlughda stop protesting so much, seriously I've been called worse on here over the years and getting het up about it doens't help. Take the issue to helpdesk instead of swinging wildly here.

My name is URL

Darlughda wrote: »

You're not.

I was used as the example in this thread of anti-muslim whatever, so here I will stay.

Oh ok, well maybe the thread should be shut down so that only you can reply to it.. you obviously don't want anyone else's input

Rabies

Darlughda wrote: »

Would you be so quick and smart to say that if I was somebody with clout and a legal team behind me, who were willing to defend the fact that I have been held as an example of racism and anti-muslim on your site?

Your posts were used as an example of what the OP didn't agree with in the thread. There is nothing wrong with that.
You're taking it too personal