Anti-Muslim threads

Darlughda

My name is URL wrote: »

Oh ok, well maybe the thread should be shut down so that only you can reply to it.. you obviously don't want anyone else's input

Just who do you think you are and what on earth qualifies you to give an opinion.
Hate to admit it, but Thaedydal is right that I'm swinging wildly here I am that cross.

Butt out mynameisurl you won't get modship sticking your oar in here. I'm off to bed to calm down.

irishconvert

Darlughda, will you calm down. I used your posts as they were the most recent I've read in a long string of posts by others in a similar vein. They were just the ones that broke the camel's back so to speak. If it makes you feel better I can find a load of posts by others.

My intention was not to single you out, but to start a discussion on the treatment Islam gets and to see if anything can be done about it.

irishconvert

DeVore wrote: »

Actually they are, up to a point. Roughly the same point as criticisms of Islam. If you look back through Feedback we have had about racism and immigration.

Also, people are born into a their skin colour and race, where as religion is a conscious choice, and that makes a certain difference in my mind.

Well I disagree. I am a different case as I choose Islam but most people are born into their religion.

DeVore wrote: »

This isnt a thread for continuing the discussion from AH... its for discussing how we handle this sort of thing. Please, all of you, desist from debating the merits of Islam on this thread.

IrishConvert, you would ban all discussion of Islam as a topic? Including the islam forum?
If not, on what basis would you decide to (dis)allow topics?

DeV.

No, I don't think discussion of Islam should be banned, in fact I would be totally against that. However I don't think posters should be able to make baseless statements which could be considered Islamophobic.

DeVore

You didnt answer my question of how we should differentiate posts that should be allowed, from posts that should be deleted or acted upon.

I dont get the luxury of dodging that question so I dont see why you should

DeV.

Rabies

irishconvert wrote: »

No, I don't think discussion of Islam should be banned, in fact I would be totally against that. However I don't think posters should be able to make baseless statements which could be considered Islamophobic.

But the problem is, its not just Islam. Its most if not all religions. There is a little more sometimes people try to tip toe a little around Islam due to the political climate in today's world.
No religion should get special treatment on Boards. I'm sure the Irish Catholic church has seen some of the posts on here too.
If a religious thread in AH becomes a one sided troll feeding frenzy, then its good to lock. No benefit. But if both sides can bring their points to the table, then there is no problem. Allow those in the know but explain how it really works.

Dohnny Jepp

Darlughda wrote: »

Would you be so quick and smart to say that if I was somebody with clout and a legal team behind me, who were willing to defend the fact that I have been held as an example of racism and anti-muslim on your site?

Thought not. No. I'm just jo bloggs to you. No biggie, so you feel you can dismiss me, ridicule me as you want and act the authoritarion school master.



Yes. But Dudess, not all people reading this have your cop on. For most, the two posts evidenced by irishconverter will be enough to villify me as a mad AH bigot.

The only thing you'd gain by having a legal team with you is a site ban :P.

Back on Topic.

Irishconvert, Why not have 2 or 3 mega threads in the islam forum to deal with the grittier stuff that is popping up on AH. So if somethin is posted that's making accusation or whatever you's can move it into the relevant mega thread and debate your side and enlighten the person to how they are wrong (or become enlightened and appreciate an "outsiders" point of view.)

The christianity forum used a mega thread to successfully deal with the peado stuff.

Tom Dunne

Darlughda wrote: »

Would you be so quick and smart to say that if I was somebody with clout and a legal team behind me, who were willing to defend the fact that I have been held as an example of racism and anti-muslim on your site?

We don't take to kindly to any kind of legal talk against the site, so please refrain from mentioning legal teams. I will not warn you about this again.

Darlughda wrote: »

I was used as the example in this thread of anti-muslim whatever, so here I will stay.

Darlughda wrote: »

Just who do you think you are and what on earth qualifies you to give an opinion.
Hate to admit it, but Thaedydal is right that I'm swinging wildly here I am that cross.

Butt out mynameisurl you won't get modship sticking your oar in here. I'm off to bed to calm down.

If you wish to stay posting in Feedback, please take some time to think rationally about what you are posting. As others have pointed out, you are doing yourself no favours here. The comments in the first post were not aimed at you personally, you are not being held up as a scapegoat, you are not being victimised.

So can I ask everyone to get back to the topic at hand. There will be no further warnings.

Tom Dunne

Back on topic, no religion should get any kind of special treatment. We, as Boards.ie members, should be free to question and debate religion but in a civilised and rational manner. Perhaps AH is not the place for such debate, I don't frequent the forum, so I cannot say for certain.

It wasn't brought to my attention that there were any paedophile priest threads on AH, if it was, my reaction would be no different. Ill-informed gross generalisations about any group is not acceptable.

As Dr. B pointed out much earlier, the thread in question was closed not because of any favouritism to Islam, but because the thread had descended into a trollfest.

Asiaprod

Dohnny Jepp wrote: »

Irishconvert, Why not have 2 or 3 mega threads in the islam forum to deal with the grittier stuff that is popping up on AH. So if somethin is posted that's making accusation or whatever you's can move it into the relevant mega thread and debate your side and enlighten the person to how they are wrong (or become enlightened and appreciate an "outsiders" point of view.)

The christianity forum used a mega thread to successfully deal with the peado stuff.

I like this idea. We did the same in Christianity with the mega creation thread.

Wibbs

irishconvert wrote: »

No, I don't think discussion of Islam should be banned, in fact I would be totally against that. However I don't think posters should be able to make baseless statements which could be considered Islamophobic.

Who draws the line? How do you define "Islamophobic"? Obviously "All Muslims are terrorists who hate freedom of speech" is Islamophobic and baseless. How about "Some of the teachings of Islam are more likely to lead to terrorism and restrictions on personal expression?" What about that? That's arguable on both sides. Ditto "All Muslims are misogynists" versus "Islam is a patriarchal religion which leads to misogyny". Similar to "all priests are kiddie fiddlers" versus "the structure of the church leads to cases of abuse being covered up".

All of the former in those examples are beyond the pale, the latter IMHO are not. In the Islam forum I wouldnt bring those subjects up. I did in the past, but its like being invited to a private house party and complaining about the food. In the public forums like AH and Humanities(much better bet for this) all bets should be off so long as the "don't be a dick" rule is observed.

My 3 cents

Darlughda

I was not making any threats about a legal team. I was pointing out that I would not have been treated in this manner were I not just an ordinary poster.

I don't appreciate sly remarks about being victimised etc. I had no choice but to defend myself as I was being used as the example in this thread.

I'm done now with this.

Wibbs

Asiaprod wrote: »

I like this idea. We did the same in Christianity with the mega creation thread.

Good luck with that TBH. Slightly different takes in the Christianity forum compared to the Islamic. EG discussion on the authenticity of the Christian texts won't raise many eyebrows in there, so long as the "don't be a dick" rule is followed. Discussion on the authenticity of the Quran won't get you very far. For all sorts of reasons. The religions are different in that example. So someone from an agnostic/lapsed catholic/christian/buddhist/etc background could wade in and cause offence without realising it.

Christianity in this country is more used to robust discussion on both sides. Certainly since the clout of the church has waned. Islam doesnt do robust discussion nearly as well and IMHO that's not a generalisation and is germane to the argument. If boards existed in 50's Ireland it would be similar with the church at the time.

Humanities FTW.

irishconvert

DeVore wrote: »

You didnt answer my question of how we should differentiate posts that should be allowed, from posts that should be deleted or acted upon.

I dont get the luxury of dodging that question so I dont see why you should

DeV.

I think the mods can use their common sense. It is not too difficult to pick out a post that is a extreme generalisation and casts all Muslims by a particular stereotype. I suggest that repeat offenders should receive a ban.

Wibbs

OK then, what about the people in the Atheism & Agnosticism forum? A fair few in there that believe that religion is all dangerous mumbo jumbo. Just as fervently as you on the other side of the fence believe its not. A fair few "repeat offenders" too. Do they get warned/banned, the forum deleted?

irishconvert

Wibbs wrote: »

OK then, what about the people in the Atheism & Agnosticism forum? A fair few in there that believe that religion is all dangerous mumbo jumbo. Just as fervently as you on the other side of the fence believe its not. A fair few "repeat offenders" too. Do they get warned/banned, the forum deleted?

I don't really care what people's opinion on Islam or any other religion is. They are entitled to think it is all a load of rubbish and express this opinion. My problem is with people labelling all Muslims as terrorists, wife beaters, etc. It is an attack on a group of people becuase of their religion, not an attack on their religion. The rule of thumb should be if you can't make a similar generalisation about a black people, jews or homosexuals, then you shouldn't be able to make it about Muslims.

irishconvert

Dohnny Jepp wrote: »

Irishconvert, Why not have 2 or 3 mega threads in the islam forum to deal with the grittier stuff that is popping up on AH. So if somethin is posted that's making accusation or whatever you's can move it into the relevant mega thread and debate your side and enlighten the person to how they are wrong (or become enlightened and appreciate an "outsiders" point of view.)

The christianity forum used a mega thread to successfully deal with the peado stuff.

This is an interesting idea but my gut feeling is it would be very hard to control. Also it would be against the current charter as it would basically invite people to come in and have a pop at Islam. The real purpose of the forum is for Muslims to discuss various aspects of the religion and for interested non-Muslims to ask questions. It is not for Muslims to have to constantly defend their faith.

DeVore

irishconvert wrote: »

I think the mods can use their common sense. It is not too difficult to pick out a post that is a extreme generalisation and casts all Muslims by a particular stereotype. I suggest that repeat offenders should receive a ban.

And that differs from what we do at the moment.... how?


DeV.

irishconvert

DeVore wrote: »

And that differs from what we do at the moment.... how?


DeV.

I was not aware that currently happens. I see the same people posting anti-Muslim rubbish time and time again. Has anyone been banned for this?

Spear

irishconvert wrote: »

I was not aware that currently happens. I see the same people posting anti-Muslim rubbish time and time again. Has anyone been banned for this?

Obvious question I guess, but did you report the posts?

DeVore

irishconvert wrote: »

I was not aware that currently happens. I see the same people posting anti-Muslim rubbish time and time again. Has anyone been banned for this?

AH is the number one place to get banned from Boards. It is of course the biggest forum on Boards but more bans and infractions are handed out there then any other.

I really wish I could have the people who want stricter control and moderation argue directly with the people who scream that its a fascist dictatorship...

Ya' know... cut out the middleman so to speak.


DeV.

bonkey

irishconvert wrote: »

I see the same people posting anti-Muslim rubbish time and time again. Has anyone been banned for this?

I haven't checked up, but let me ask this...

How many of these posts have you reported?
Having reported posts, and repeatedly seen nothing done, have you contacted the CMods?
Having contacted the CMods, have you taken it to the Helpdesk?

The reason I'm asking these questions is that this is the clearly defined way of dealing with issues / disagreements regarding moderation in threads.

You want to know if something can be done....and the first response I offer is to ask if you have exhausted the existing avenues which exist for dealing with any and every type of problem where people feel something should be / needs to be done.

If not...then yes....something can be done. You can use the system which already exists, to have your issue looked at.

I'm going to assume that you've done all that, and despite having had your arguments reviewed at every level, you feel that starting a Feedback thread might actually lead to a change that mods, cmods and admins didn't agree was merited...

So...

Let me put the ball back in your court. You feel something needs to be done. You clearly feel the line is drawn in the wrong place in the sand. You want it drawn elsewhere.

As has been pointed out, this line doesn't apply purely and solely to your subject of (vested) interest. Its not even about religion - its about where we should draw the lines in general for this site.

So tell us. Where do you think that line should be drawn.Try and define that line without making it about any given topic (e.g. Islam), or else explain why your chosen topic deserves special treatment.

Give us your Feedback.

philologos

irishconvert: I get where you are coming from. This isn't just an issue to do with Islam, it has to do with how people treat one another in account of their religious views. I agree with you that more respect is called for, but perhaps instead of challenging the content of what people say, dealing with how people are articulating them is something that the moderators need to be mindful of.

I believe boards can and should be a better place to discuss about belief and lack thereof. It is a hot topic, and indeed, it is probably a subject which I have gone too far on as well as many others. Unfortunately some people think that discussing belief or lack thereof is an excuse to be rude to other people as well.

It is good to see that you are bringing up your grievances here though, as it is a problem in general with all things belief oriented. The grievances probably exist because religion is one of those topics that people get articulate about, and not always in a positive way.

looksee

I haven't been on AH for a long time since I figured out that it was the tabloid forum. Say what you like because no-one is taking any serious notice. It keeps most of the garbage in one place and results in other forums being more interesting and reasonable.

So the answer is, (not just for Muslims) if you know you are going to be seriously offended - as against just offended enough to keep a row going - don't go on AH, or at least avoid the offending threads. Stay away then you won't know what they are saying. What you don't know won't hurt you, and you will be one less person to keep the flames burning. Don't expect you are going to educate anyone, they don't want to be educated, its more fun throwing around wild generalisations.

As has been suggested, go and have a discussion on Humanities where, if people don't agree, at least they will do it reasonably politely and with considered opionions.

Dohnny Jepp

Jakkass wrote: »

It is good to see that you are bringing up your grievances here though,

Grievance = help desk
feedback = well. . . .feedback.

It might in the long run turn out to be good it was posted here as there has been some great posts bringing up good suggestions, good feedback.

However, this was a case for help desk imo.

Rabies

Off topic:


irishconvert, access granted to Nein 11 :pac:




sorry, couldn't help it

dr.bollocko

looksee wrote: »

Don't expect you are going to educate anyone, they don't want to be educated, its more fun throwing around wild generalisations.

The cognitive dissonance is astounding.

looksee

dr.bollocko wrote: »

The cognitive dissonance is astounding.

Er, yes, I think. I've looked it up and I still don't know whether I should take offense....:D

KamiKazi

Boohoo, more religious people whining about people criticising their faiths.

Although I must say, it is pretty fitting that a person of "faith" is trying to limit free speech.

If you don't like what other people have to say, an internet discussion board probably isn't the place for you. Maybe you should start a Muslim blog, and only allow comments from people with the exact same views as yourself

Pax Pacman
Kami

irishconvert

KamiKazi wrote: »

Boohoo, more religious people whining about people criticising their faiths.

Although I must say, it is pretty fitting that a person of "faith" is trying to limit free speech.

If you don't like what other people have to say, an internet discussion board probably isn't the place for you. Maybe you should start a Muslim blog, and only allow comments from people with the exact same views as yourself

Pax Pacman
Kami

You obviously didn't even read the first post in this thread. I have a voucher for a free eye test in Specsavers if you need it

irishconvert

bonkey wrote: »

I haven't checked up, but let me ask this...

How many of these posts have you reported?
Having reported posts, and repeatedly seen nothing done, have you contacted the CMods?
Having contacted the CMods, have you taken it to the Helpdesk?

The reason I'm asking these questions is that this is the clearly defined way of dealing with issues / disagreements regarding moderation in threads.

You want to know if something can be done....and the first response I offer is to ask if you have exhausted the existing avenues which exist for dealing with any and every type of problem where people feel something should be / needs to be done.

If not...then yes....something can be done. You can use the system which already exists, to have your issue looked at.

I'm going to assume that you've done all that, and despite having had your arguments reviewed at every level, you feel that starting a Feedback thread might actually lead to a change that mods, cmods and admins didn't agree was merited...

So...

Let me put the ball back in your court. You feel something needs to be done. You clearly feel the line is drawn in the wrong place in the sand. You want it drawn elsewhere.

As has been pointed out, this line doesn't apply purely and solely to your subject of (vested) interest. Its not even about religion - its about where we should draw the lines in general for this site.

So tell us. Where do you think that line should be drawn.Try and define that line without making it about any given topic (e.g. Islam), or else explain why your chosen topic deserves special treatment.

Give us your Feedback.

Bonkey, thanks for your reply.

Ok, I haven't been reporting the posts up until now. I will try doing that from now on and see how it goes.