Anti-Muslim threads

DeVore

The reasons you should report posts are because they are abusive rather then that you just dont agree with them.

The Islam forum (and others) get protection to be something more tranquil for those involved but that comes at the price of allowing robust discourse in other areas. You have your DMZ.... AH is the Warzone.

DeV.

KamiKazi

irishconvert wrote: »

You obviously didn't even read the first post in this thread. I have a voucher for a free eye test in Specsavers if you need it

I have a voucher for an extra large portion of common sense when you realise you need it.

<- safety smilie

Rabies

DeVore wrote: »

ou have your DMZ.... AH is the Warzone.

DeV.

HEY!!!

Warzone is a bit harsh!

I think of AH like Omaha beach.

irishconvert

DeVore wrote: »

The reasons you should report posts are because they are abusive rather then that you just dont agree with them.

The Islam forum (and others) get protection to be something more tranquil for those involved but that comes at the price of allowing robust discourse in other areas. You have your DMZ.... AH is the Warzone.

DeV.

DeVore,

Excuse the bluntness but if the following 3 statements were posted on After Hours the second two posts would be removed and the author banned whereas the first seems to be fair game.

1. "All Muslims are wife beaters"
2. "All Blacks are rapists"
3. "All Jews are money grabbing thiefs"

Why allow the stereotyping of one group of people but not others?

tbh

irishconvert wrote: »

DeVore,

Excuse the bluntness but if the following 3 statements were posted on After Hours the second two posts would be removed and the author banned whereas the first seems to be fair game.

1. "All Muslims are wife beaters"
2. "All Blacks are rapists"
3. "All Jews are money grabbing thiefs"

Why allow the stereotyping of one group of people but not others?

in fairness, I think "all Anyone Are Anything" would be removed.

Rabies

tbh wrote: »

in fairness, I think "all Anyone Are Anything" would be removed.

Not always

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055920369

tbh

fair point.

AH, you have fu*ked me for the last time.

tbh

ok, well replace "removed" with "dismissed" then. There are always going to be people who think that all muslims are wifebeaters. There are always going to be people who say that all <anyone> is <anything> - usually people who get their opinions second-hand from others who have a vested interest in spreading those opinions. Personally, let them say what they want to say and get ripped apart in the court of public opinion. It doesn't matter, it's not like a reasoned argument will make them change their mind anyway.

DeVore

If we ban "all X are Y" then will we ban:

All women are beautiful?
All men like cars?
All blacks like food?
All blacks like chicken?
All Americans are xenophobic?
All knackers are criminal?
All politicians are corrupt?


Can you tell me which of these you (plural) will allow and which you wont?


I do concur that "All muslims are terrorists" is a silly statement that should be booted for its disrepect (remember, you can be respectful while still demolishing someone's argument. I like to think I am quite respectful but I dont back down).

I would say that any statement of the form "All X are Y" where Y is insulting or derogatory should be seriously considered for an infraction/tempban based on context and user posting history.

Thats my opinion... does that seem reasonable? Is that a solution to this?

DeV.

tbh

all devs opinions are reasonable.

<explodes>

irishconvert

DeVore wrote: »

I would say that any statement of the form "All X are Y" where Y is insulting or derogatory should be seriously considered for an infraction/tempban based on context and user posting history.

Thats my opinion... does that seem reasonable? Is that a solution to this?

DeV.

I agree 100% :-)

DeVore

But you see the minefield we walk when we try to write "rules".

I'm sure there are "feminists" who would object to the line: "All women are beautiful". This requires a judgement of commonsense and thats a trust we put in our moderators. By and large they do a great job, but they are human too.

I'd like to hear more feedback and thoughts from the AH mods about this suggestion, it would seem very much in line with our approach, but AH got half a million posts last year or so. We arent being prissy when we ask feedbackers, "Have you reported the post?" because it really DOES help

DeV.

bonkey

irishconvert wrote: »

DeVore,

Excuse the bluntness but if the following 3 statements were posted on After Hours the second two posts would be removed and the author banned whereas the first seems to be fair game.

1. "All Muslims are wife beaters"
2. "All Blacks are rapists"
3. "All Jews are money grabbing thiefs"

Why allow the stereotyping of one group of people but not others?

I'm not deVore, but I'm curious as to how you're so certain of the outcome. Has someone made a comment like the first of these on AH, and had it left there?

The comments that you linked to originally did not say what your first point says. You may have read them to mean that, or something like that, but its not what was actually said.

I would go so far as to say that it is somewhat ironic that the example you give above appears to be an excessive generalisation of what actually goes on....while your issue appears to be about comments which are themselves excessive generalisations.

Nevyn

irishconvert honestly reporting the posts help, the number if crap sexist have a go at women threads in AH has rapidly decreased and I think part of the was posters reporting posts and calling it for the bull **** which it was.

The AH mods are a busy bunch but they are a competent crew, so keep and eye and report posts.

irishconvert

bonkey wrote: »

I'm not deVore, but I'm curious as to how you're so certain of the outcome. Has someone made a comment like the first of these on AH, and had it left there?

The comments that you linked to originally did not say what your first point says. You may have read them to mean that, or something like that, but its not what was actually said.

I would go so far as to say that it is somewhat ironic that the example you give above appears to be an excessive generalisation of what actually goes on....while your issue appears to be about comments which are themselves excessive generalisations.

I can find lots of examples. The ones I linked to were just the ones that "broke the camel's back" so to speak and was when I decided to post here. It's true, they are not the most extreme but they were the last ones I read. Every day there is a new anti-Muslim thread with people making rediculous generalisations about Muslims.

Anyway I feel you are being pedantic now. Either you agree with DeVore's last post or you don't. Is an investigation into how we arrived here necessary?

irishconvert

DeVore wrote: »

But you see the minefield we walk when we try to write "rules".

I'm sure there are "feminists" who would object to the line: "All women are beautiful". This requires a judgement of commonsense and thats a trust we put in our moderators. By and large they do a great job, but they are human too.

I'd like to hear more feedback and thoughts from the AH mods about this suggestion, it would seem very much in line with our approach, but AH got half a million posts last year or so. We arent being prissy when we ask feedbackers, "Have you reported the post?" because it really DOES help

DeV.

Ok, I will report the posts and leave it up to you guys to decide on it. Thanks for your input :-)

KamiKazi

irishconvert wrote: »

I can find lots of examples. The ones I linked to were just the ones that "broke the camel's back" so to speak and was when I decided to post here. It's true, they are not the most extreme but they were the last ones I read. Every day there is a new anti-Muslim thread with people making rediculous generalisations about Muslims.

Anyway I feel you are being pedantic now. Either you agree with DeVore's last post or you don't. Is an investigation into how we arrived here necessary?

Oh boo hoo.

Are you going to report every post you see that has a chance of offending somebody somewhere?

DeVore

Lots of people report lots of posts, not all of them are actionable, in fact predominantly they ARENT actionable or deserve only a "chalm down chalm down" on the thread.

Some ARE very abusive and its an assistance to the mods to have those highlighted as it targets their precious time.

If someone goes mad and reports everything even remotely controversial, they get warned and ultimately banned. Its considered abuse of the moderator by wasting their time. Its not a clever thing to do.

Like all things, a bit of common sense is needed. So rare it should be a super-power

DeV.

Darlughda

irishconvert wrote: »

I can find lots of examples. The ones I linked to were just the ones that "broke the camel's back" so to speak and was when I decided to post here. It's true, they are not the most extreme but they were the last ones I read. Every day there is a new anti-Muslim thread with people making rediculous generalisations about Muslims.

Anyway I feel you are being pedantic now. Either you agree with DeVore's last post or you don't. Is an investigation into how we arrived here necessary?

I took on board what you said, Tom Dunne, about off topic posting.
But there is no way I can sit back and accept my posts were the ones that broke the camels back. I am sick and tired of western feminism rising against the patriarchal repressive doctrines of Islam only to be shot down and called anti-muslim.

Why shouldn't I report your posts Irishconvert for discrimination?

You have no idea how many immigrant muslim women I work with.
Which is why I lost the plot to be labeled as anti-muslim, as is the title of your thread, but now you continue to insist that my posts are examples of the AH savagery that you are complaining about.

Lucky you aren't fat, unemployed, gay or from the working class then you really would have some beef.

philologos

Darlughda wrote: »

But there is no way I can sit back and accept my posts were the ones that broke the camels back. I am sick and tired of western feminism rising against the patriarchal repressive doctrines of Islam only to be shot down and called anti-muslim.

Nobody is asking you or anyone else to stop criticising Islam.

Darlughda wrote: »

Why shouldn't I report your posts Irishconvert for discrimination?

Every time I have seen irishconvert speak, although I disagree with him he has kept things in check. He hasn't made sensationalist generalisations about any group or demographic, and he can make a point clearly. If more posters dealt with the issues like irishconvert did, boards would be a better fora for discussing about peoples beliefs.

That's perhaps one reason why reporting irishconvert probably wouldn't get very far.

Darlughda wrote: »

Lucky you aren't fat, unemployed, gay or from the working class then you really would have some beef.

What do you mean?

DeVore

Darlughda wrote: »

I took on board what you said, Tom Dunne, about off topic posting.
But there is no way I can sit back and accept my posts were the ones that broke the camels back. I am sick and tired of western feminism rising against the patriarchal repressive doctrines of Islam only to be shot down and called anti-muslim.

Sooooo you want your right to criticise upheld, but his right to criticise (your posts), removed??


Sorry, further typing may be problematic because my head just fncking exploded.


DeV.

Overheal

looksee wrote: »

So the answer is, (not just for Muslims) if you know you are going to be seriously offended - as against just offended enough to keep a row going - don't go on AH, or at least avoid the offending threads. Stay away then you won't know what they are saying. What you don't know won't hurt you, and you will be one less person to keep the flames burning. Don't expect you are going to educate anyone, they don't want to be educated, its more fun throwing around wild generalisations.

Yes and No. Controversial threads have a lot of facets of discussion. Lots of people engage in a Abortion thread, for instance, to discuss it in depth; not watch a flame ware between one opinion and another - where people are calling people who subscribe to Pro-Choice or Pro-Life for example Murderers or Retards.

Thats why theres a Moderation and Moderators. Deconstructive noise gets filtered out so that even in a controversial topic a meaningful discussion can still result.

For much the same reason I got pissed off at some Christianity bashing that was happening early in the year. In that example a user was looking for bible-based video games and rather than getting much help they instead became a platform for the outrage, "how dare you indoctrinate your children" bla bla bla.

There was a thread in AH recently about a mosque opening up near ground zero - while I expressed concern and displeasure, you never heard me call them towel-heads or any variation. I am guilty of having some wrong ideas but thats what discussion is here for.

Darlughda

DeVore wrote: »

Sooooo you want your right to criticise upheld, but his right to criticise (your posts), removed??


Sorry, further typing may be problematic because my head just fncking exploded.


DeV.

Get over your personal gripe with me. If I reciprocated in the same manner to you it would not be tolerated.

Which has been my point all along.

I work with immigrant women, filling in forms etc, and take great pains to be respectful of their boundaries and their culture, so to be used as the example by irishconvert in his opening post in a thread entitled ANTI- MUSLIM made my blood boil.

Why should I not report his posts and indeed this whole thread for offensive discrimination?

All of you assumed I was threatening legal action, but I was doing nothing of the sort. I was merely highlighting the fact that you all thought ,especially you Devore, that it was ok to treat me like a piece of **** just because I am a regular jo bloggs.

looksee

Overheal wrote: »

Yes and No. Controversial threads have a lot of facets of discussion. Lots of people engage in a Abortion thread, for instance, to discuss it in depth; not watch a flame ware between one opinion and another - where people are calling people who subscribe to Pro-Choice or Pro-Life for example Murderers or Retards.

Thats why theres a Moderation and Moderators. Deconstructive noise gets filtered out so that even in a controversial topic a meaningful discussion can still result.

For much the same reason I got pissed off at some Christianity bashing that was happening early in the year. In that example a user was looking for bible-based video games and rather than getting much help they instead became a platform for the outrage, "how dare you indoctrinate your children" bla bla bla.

There was a thread in AH recently about a mosque opening up near ground zero - while I expressed concern and displeasure, you never heard me call them towel-heads or any variation. I am guilty of having some wrong ideas but thats what discussion is here for.

I am not talking about any forums other than AH.

The discussion in AH may sometimes be reasonable and meaningful, but honestly, if you post in AH you can bet there will be a greater degree of vague, generalised, uninformed response than if you post in other forums. That's not necessarily a bad thing, if people want to discuss things in a robust/challenging/vigorous way thats fine, go to AH and discuss with like minds. As I said, its the tabloid forum, and tabloids are very popular, you don't read them for reasoned debate, but reasoned debate is not always what you want to engage in.

However, if you want to be fairly sure of a meaningful discussion, then find a different forum.

As for anti-Muslim posts OP, good luck, I've been listening to Brit-slagging for 30-odd years, and responding to it only draws down yet another lecture on the 800 years etc. Some of what is said is essentially true, but I have heard it ad nauseum, and what am I supposed to do about it anyway?

And the same applies to Gardai, Travellers, Teachers, Politicians, Christians, Priests etc etc depending on who is in the public eye, its not just you.

Overheal

looksee wrote: »

I am not talking about any forums other than AH.

Neither was I...

irishconvert

Darlughda wrote: »

I took on board what you said, Tom Dunne, about off topic posting.
But there is no way I can sit back and accept my posts were the ones that broke the camels back. I am sick and tired of western feminism rising against the patriarchal repressive doctrines of Islam only to be shot down and called anti-muslim.

Ok, can you tell me then why you linked Honour killing to Islam when:
a) It has nothing to do with Islamic teaching and actually goes against Islamic teaching. It is considered murder of an innocent person, a very serious sin.
b) It is not restricted to Muslims, but also happens in Sikh, Hindu and Chhristian communities.

Darlughda wrote: »

Why shouldn't I report your posts Irishconvert for discrimination?

Please do if you think I am discriminating against somebody.

Darlughda wrote: »

You have no idea how many immigrant muslim women I work with.

The only Muslims you know are immigrants? Are they trying to get refugee status or have they got it already? What % of these fit the profile you posted about?

Darlughda wrote: »

Which is why I lost the plot to be labeled as anti-muslim, as is the title of your thread, but now you continue to insist that my posts are examples of the AH savagery that you are complaining about.

Lucky you aren't fat, unemployed, gay or from the working class then you really would have some beef.

DeVore

This is as far as this trainwreck slides. Thanks for your input all.

thread. over.

DeV