New type of solar panels that I havent seen before

I was at the Self Build show in Galway last week and I saw the usual flat panel and tube solar systems. My roof is not ideal for these systems so most of the installers were recommending an additional panel to meet my needs

I did see another type of panel that I hadn't come across before. They are <SNIP> but they work something like a fridge pulling heat from the air so they don't necessarly need sunlight.

Has anyone any expierence with these type of panels? I'm looking to get some feedback before I invest. The guy stated that this system will provide 100% of my hot water needs.

The quote I got was Eur 5,000 and with SEI grant it would be Eur 4,600. This included:
1 panel
1 250l stainless steel tank (special one that works with their system, has the compressor included)
Installation (incl all fittings)

I can have the option of getting a tank with an additional coil that would run from the central heating but he told me they normally wouldn't do many of those as it isn't needed.

Anyway, as above, any previous expierence or feedback on this system would be very much appreciated

opinion guy

Hmmm so this must be some kind of heat pump I guess.
Is this them ??? :
<SNIP>

If so I do notice it says they collect heat down to zero degrees. This would seem to imply it doens't work below zero then ? Might have been a bit awkward this last winter I'd imagine...

Lurching

Also, if this is a heat pump type system, there would be an added running cost for keeping the compressor pump running. (and possible replacement / maintenance cost down the line)

ei.sdraob

Ive seen the one

it looks like a big flat black radiator

interesting if it actually works, the guys seemed a bit "cheese ala salesmen"

opinion guy

opinion guy wrote: »

Hmmm so this must be some kind of heat pump I guess.
Is this them ??? :
<SNIP>

If so I do notice it says they collect heat down to zero degrees. This would seem to imply it doens't work below zero then ? Might have been a bit awkward this last winter I'd imagine...

Yeah thats the ones, but a different website

<SNIP>

What he said is that the boiling piont of the refrigerant is -25°C, so as long as the outside temp is above that it is still pulling heat from the air

Lurching wrote: »

Also, if this is a heat pump type system, there would be an added running cost for keeping the compressor pump running. (and possible replacement / maintenance cost down the line)

I asked him specifically about the running costs and what I was told is that it equates to a fridge/freezer in terms of running costs

I dying to know if there is anyone on Boards that has these installed. Trying to get some other feedback rather than the people they point you to

Poor Uncle Tom

I've edited the above posts to remove the links to the Company. They don't need our help advertising.

There are previous threads on these Heat Pump systems here. Every single one of them has problems, the biggest being the nightmare electricity bills experienced by many people which far outweigh the cost of running a house on oil central heating.

The 'compressor' element mentioned in the OP is the Heat Pump (no genius needed) which needs the electrical feed and constant maintanance, but why does it have to be on the roof where it is hard to get at? Because it is being masqueraded as a solar system.

What is the liquid that has a boiling temprature of -25 degrees? I have asked that question before on a thread but got no reply. I am off now to find that.....:)

opinion guy

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

What is the liquid that has a boiling temprature of -25 degrees? I have asked that question before on a thread but got no reply. I am off now to find that.....:)

Yeah the wording on that link was ambiguous but it did seem to imply it didnt' work below zero.

I can't imagine this system would be very efficient and would give you large electricity bills.

OP, as an alternative, you could buy the cheapest, largest, cheapest fridge you can find, smash a whole in the wall, fit fridge in in it with the door facing outwards and the rear pipework facing onto your water tank, seal up the gap between the wall and the fridge, seal up the space with the fridge pipework and your watertank, remove the fridge door, and plug her in whenever you want a bath....hmmm maybe a good while ahead of time actually......:D
That in theory will achieve the same result........but I wouldn't like to see your electricity bills

My bad about posting the link, I didn't realise I couldnt post it

I found the following info about the refridgerant (sp)

Two types of gas are used in NAME REMOVED, hot water uses R134a and for the central heating systems and swimming pools we use R407c.

I'm looking at it for hot water use and not central heating so the one in mine would end up being R134a

*googles R134a*

best info I can find about it is on wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1,1,1,2-Tetrafluoroethane

Poor Uncle Tom

I just found This it makes for interesting reading, and I think you will get the gist of the system.

That thread had to be locked as there were 4 or 5 people registered specifically to shill the company involved. They were banned of course, thanks muffler....:D

opinion guy

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

That thread had to be locked as there were 4 or 5 people registered specifically to chill the company involved.

Ba-dum tsch

thank you thank you I'm here all week.....

muffler

opinion guy wrote: »

Ba-dum tsch

thank you thank you I'm here all week.....

Dont forget to dot your i's and cross your t's :cool:

ei.sdraob

aha! so i was correct

my gut told me those lads looked dodgy

freddyuk

Davegalway wrote:

Has anyone any expierence with these type of panels? I'm looking to get some feedback before I invest. The guy stated that this system will provide 100% of my hot water needs.

So did he ask how much hot water you used or needed or just make the claim? It's a dead give away.;)




.

He did ask, i told him 5 in the house, he said 1 panel will suffice

homer911

Davegalway wrote: »

He did ask, i told him 5 in the house, he said 1 panel will suffice

:eek: Sounds like Snake Oil, Voodoo, or a miracle!

homer911

homer911 wrote: »

:eek: Sounds like Snake Oil, Voodoo, or a miracle!

maybe

to get on the list for SEI grants do products go through testing?

PeteHeat

Davegalway wrote: »

maybe

to get on the list for SEI grants do products go through testing?

Hi,

No the SEAI do not do testing, the check the documents and the test reports, I understand these type of products were registered as a Solar collector because it was fully tested to EN 12975.
A large footprint is needed for the cylinder with the heat pump attached, close on 1 metre from back to front, not sure it would suit every hot press or home.

.

Prometeo

Hi,
I am a regular reader of this website and think it is brilliant but I recently joined just to respond to this thread. I have experience with this type of panel (as in I have gone to see the system in action) and this post is not to promote it I am just posting a sentence to say that some of the posters comments on the capabilities of this system are way off. Anyone that has questions on the system just ring the suppliers and go to a site visit simple as that and then come back and post the results. You cant beat seeing something before putting it down. Just because someone thinks its a heat pump and knows nothing about it they feel that they have to puit it down as bad - pure irish...

Poor Uncle Tom

Prometeo wrote: »

Hi,
I am a regular reader of this website and think it is brilliant but I recently joined just to respond to this thread.

Welcome along Prometeo,

Prometeo wrote: »

I have experience with this type of panel (as in I have gone to see the system in action) and this post is not to promote it I am just posting a sentence to say that some of the posters comments on the capabilities of this system are way off.

Without naming any companies can you give us a rundown on the system you saw and maybe a description of the elements.

You say you have seen the system in action, what are the actual running costs of the system you saw, and is it a demonstration model or is it in an actual house?

Prometeo wrote: »

Anyone that has questions on the system just ring the suppliers and go to a site visit simple as that and then come back and post the results.

The results I would like to see are the ESB Bills from before and after fitting one of these systems.

Prometeo wrote: »

You cant beat seeing something before putting it down. Just because someone thinks its a heat pump and knows nothing about it they feel that they have to puit it down as bad - pure irish...

You were doing quite well up to this point, but the mask slipped a bit.

Prometeo

No I dont work for the company but I do install Heat Recovery Systems and it was while doing this that I have seen them. I installed Heat Recovery in a house in Masonbrook Loughrea where the company fitting the panels used it to provide central heating for underfloor heating.
They fitted an energy monitor to monitor energy usage. Its been a while since I was up there so I dont have results.

The only hot water system I saw was in Athlone, it was pulling 390 watts but how long it was running for I dont know. The water is stored at 55 degrees.
The only disadvantages i can see is the size of the cylinder and the grant is small from SEI. The tank I saw was enamelled so that could be a problem in having to change the anode every few years if there is hard water.

Poor Uncle Tom

Prometeo wrote: »

No I dont work for the company but I do install Heat Recovery Systems and it was while doing this that I have seen them. I installed Heat Recovery in a house in Masonbrook Loughrea where the company fitting the panels used it to provide central heating for underfloor heating.
They fitted an energy monitor to monitor energy usage.

Was the moniter to measure energy usage of the overall house or energy usage of the system?

Prometeo wrote: »

Its been a while since I was up there so I dont have results.

Is there any way we could see the results? but, only if it is energy usage of the system.

Prometeo wrote: »

The only hot water system I saw was in Athlone, it was pulling 390 watts but how long it was running for I dont know. The water is stored at 55 degrees.

So you have seen one system providing hot water and one system providing central heating. But you have no meaningfull data. Then you come here and give out about experts in the field who understand how these systems actually work, and what they actually cost to work, and you expect to be taken seriously.

Prometeo wrote: »

The only disadvantages i can see is the size of the cylinder and the grant is small from SEI. The tank I saw was enamelled so that could be a problem in having to change the anode every few years if there is hard water.

Quite so.

PeteHeat

Hi,

I spent a lot of time and money researching the system, I hope I don't a ban for this but I was asked to represent the manufacturer in Ireland.

I am not here to "bash the product" but the results of what were fairly detailed examination of the system by ourselves and the refrigeration engineers / consultants we employed were in the negative.

Yes I supply lets call them traditional systems so I could be biased, but if you look on it as a product I was interested in enough to employ consultants and had to pass on the opportunity to be the sole agent for Ireland either I am a fool or my advisors got it very very wrong.

For what its worth the industrial version was looking fairly good however the domestic version was a very poor relation.

The system did not get approval from SEAI the panel did as it complied with EN 12975, so under the rules of the scheme it could not be rejected.

If anything can be taken from the process I believe it demonstrates the standard EN 12975 is very low and possibly out of date considering the efficiency that can be achieved from the modern "Traditional Systems".

.

bertie1

Deleted User wrote: »

He did ask, i told him 5 in the house, he said 1 panel will suffice

Great 1 panel will do for your house but it took 4 panels to do mine 450 ltr tank with simple evacuated tubes ( 100 in total )

Having said that the water temperature is 64C tonight. I am still very happy with the 5 year old system I have. No oil or imersion on since end of April.

Who can beat that !

Prometeo

Hi sorry it took so long to reply. I am sure the experts commenting here know what they are at but they are putting it down without seeing or knowing the product thats all I am saying. Can someone of these experts get results of this system by any chance??
I rang the owner of the house and he said that it is costing 0.49 cent per day for heating and hot water but the heating is rarely on this weather.


Hi Pete Heat What negatives did you find when testing this system??