Eircom to cut broadband over illegal downloads - READ POST#1 WARNING

axer

tazzzZ wrote: »

should that not be an issue for their ISP as opposed to my own?

No because you are downloading from an unauthorised distributor thus you are also breaking the law but they will not go after downloaders anyway because everything is so hard to prove plus going after the sharers/uploaders is easier to prove and catch.

evolutionqy7

axer wrote: »

The person are downloading from does not have the right to share it with you so no you don't have the right to download it from someone who doesn't have the right to distribute.

your right and wrong there...the person that has the proof of purchase of the original material has the right to download it and keep using cause he already bought the product...but ofc the illegal download source doesnt have the right to distribute...but which official distributor will give ya the download if ya tell em you had the original product? get the point?

axer

evolutionqy7 wrote: »

your right and wrong there...the person that has the proof of purchase of the original material has the right to download it and keep using cause he already bought the product...but ofc the illegal download source doesnt have the right to distribute...but which official distributor will give ya the download if ya tell em you had the original product? get the point?

Exactly my point but I don't think it is clear cut that you are allowed to download it either - its a little grey.

evolutionqy7

axer wrote: »

Exactly my point but I don't think it is clear cut that you are allowed to download it either - its a little grey.

well its like going to tesco and asking them for a new copy of your CD or Game or Movie cause u broke the orignal one i only imagine the look the sales assistant is gonna give ya

z0oT

jimi_t2 wrote: »

Not any more thankfully! You can do a reasonable promotion of an album in the digital domain for free. Word of mouth tends to do the rest (Think: Arctic Monkeys, Crystal Swing, Radioheads ''In Rainbows'' etc...)

Last.fm? Pandora? Myspace? Soundcloud? Facebook? Boards.ie? Garageband? Beatport? iTunes? Their own website?.

A few artists have turned to the net to distribute and promote their stuff indeed, and I meant a large website whereby its sole purpose was to allow musicians to market music to their fans. I seem to remember reading a blog on it about 5/6 months ago, no idea where.

All that aside, what I get from this whole 3 Strikes Eircom debacle is this:

- IRMA supply Eircom with IP addresses to warn and potentially disconnect failing warnings.
- At no stage do IRMA get anything more than an IP address, no names or anything.
- Eircom are not going to be monitoring traffic and snooping on their users at all, all this is really is an internal solution for Eircom to jump into bed with the music industry.

Based on that it's not nearly as bad as it could have been, such as the act in Sweeden where ISPs can be forced to hand over the details of their customers to rights holders. And besides there's always the VPN option for those so inclined. I think it's quite sad that this came about the way it did, ie not one scrap of resistance from Eircom - essentially spreading their legs for the Music industry, but nonetheless it's not nearly as bad as it could have been.

Also, on a somewhat humurous note, have a look at the piratebays front page if you haven't alreadly.

evolutionqy7

z0oT wrote: »

Eircom - essentially spreading their legs for the Music industry

just want to quote it i liked the way you expressed it

Fighting Irish

lol fook eircom

evolutionqy7

Peanut

axer wrote: »

In fairness, this explains it all.

1. They are only disconnecting home users
2. They will talk it through with the user on how to stop file sharing (so this will cover hacked wireless routers I would assume)
3. They will refund customers for the time they are without broadband (from what I can see they disconnect the service for 7 times every time).
4. People can dispute the findings with eircom via the telephone number
5. They will not be passing any customer details to IRMA etc
6. Eircom will not be monitoring any internet traffic.

I hope that is the end of people's mis-information.

This is the most worrying part -

eircom wrote:

finally on receipt of a further notification of infringement, eircom will disconnect customer's broadband broadband for 12 months.

There are a number of questions left unanswered:

- Over what time period do the infringements have to happen in order to count? 4 intentional or not infringements in a year may be a lot, but over a number of years?

- What happens if/when other ISPs are compelled to adopt this? Will they share ban details between them?

This raises the prospect of internet access being completely cut off for a year without recourse to other providers, purely on the basis of non personally identifiable information (IP address).

The fact that this is a company policy rather than a legal sanction will be moot if the other ISPs are forced to comply.

mneylon

tazzzZ wrote: »

If i have bought the rights to own a song by bying the cd in a shop. said cd breaks and i want to continue listening to the song have i the right to download it as i have already bought that right?

This type of scenario has been discussed for years.

From what I recall, and I'm open to correction, Irish copyright law is more than a little odd. If you even make a copy of the CD for your own use you can be seen to be in breach, which wouldn't be the case in a lot of other countries.

Buying a CD doesn't give you any "rights" really.

evolutionqy7

Blacknight wrote: »

This type of scenario has been discussed for years.

From what I recall, and I'm open to correction, Irish copyright law is more than a little odd. If you even make a copy of the CD for your own use you can be seen to be in breach, which wouldn't be the case in a lot of other countries.

Buying a CD doesn't give you any "rights" really.

well god my neighbour would be ****ed if some one checked him :rolleyes:

Spacedog

Eircom have been horrible little trolls since the outset of the internet in the early 90s. they opposed the introduction of flat rate dial up internet for years, slowing the progress of the digital economy in ireland for years simply to line their own pockets by charging a pound per 10 mins online.

This action is particularly unfair, as a friend of mine had his eircom wifi router set to the default password. Because of eircoms inability to secure their own equipment and the commonly known eircom ssid thinger all over the net, his neighbours apparently hacked his router and downloaded music and movies. Now he has a warning letter threatening to disconnect his net, which he needs for his work, basically threatening his livelyhood. I changed his password to protect him from this happening again.

Basically, if you have not changed your default eircom router password, anyone who can search google can connect to it, because of NAT they appear to have the same IP address as you. How can they cut anyone off with such security breeches.

jay93

eircom are complete tossers this countrys internet infrastructure is crap and they are more worried about record labels loosing out on money i wonder how much eircom where paid off to allow this scam and invasion of privacy .they should get there heads outa there arses and cop on are they all on bloody crack or something in eircoms headquarters ??start focusing on the real problem which is the ammount of people on this island who cannot get a broadband service cause eircom are to busy making sure record labels are getting ther money..dreadful ISP everyone should have left eircom long ago :mad::mad::mad:

evolutionqy7

jay93 wrote: »

dreadful ISP everyone should have left eircom long ago :mad::mad::mad:

see that's the thing...with all the posts here complaining about terrible broadband speed even in Dublin how come people stick with it...kinda doesnt make sense

RangeR

evolutionqy7 wrote: »

your right and wrong there...the person that has the proof of purchase of the original material has the right to download it and keep using cause he already bought the product...but ofc the illegal download source doesnt have the right to distribute...but which official distributor will give ya the download if ya tell em you had the original product? get the point?

Show me, printed on a CD, or ANYWHERE that purchasing a CD gives you the right to download a song from it under ANY circumstances. Just because you think it's a right doesn't make it so.

I'm not 100% sure but I think the ONLY rights a licensed CD would give you is:
1. To listen to it [you don't own the music. You have a license to listen to it]
2. Make a fair use personal backup [this is what I'm unsure of]
3. If you damage the CD you have the right to purchase it again

I'm sure the license DOESN'T say that if you damage the CD, you can go onto the interwebs and download a copy from a dodgy source. In this circumstance see point 3 above.

evolutionqy7

well thats what ive been told not 100% of irelands law but every one on the internet is saying that aslong as you have the proof of the original its ok to have a back up it doesnt give you the right to download it but by downloading it you will have a back up...i doubt some one will check where did the CD-R come from or w/e

Cabaal

Spacedog wrote: »

This action is particularly unfair, as a friend of mine had his eircom wifi router set to the default password. Because of eircoms inability to secure their own equipment and the commonly known eircom ssid thinger all over the net, his neighbours apparently hacked his router and downloaded music and movies.

The SSID "hack" was identfied years ago by others and then accepted by eircom and they put notices on their website and sent letters to customers using the affected routers.

Infact eircom STILL have a notice up on http://support.eircom.net/

How to improve your wireless security

Older versions the Netopia 2247 and 3347 modems distributed by eircom from April 2004 to July 2008 were enabled with Wired Equivalent Privacy (WEP) security. This is the basic level of wireless encryption. There are several options that can be used to secure and encrypt your wireless sygnal. However, wireless system can ever be considered 100% secure.

Please note that you only need to perform one of the steps outlined below. If you do a factory reset of the modem at any time in the future, you will need to re-apply these security settings.
Change the wireless security type from WEP to WPA

If you would like to change your type of wireless security from WEP to WPA please click here.
Generate the unique WEP Key

If you would like to create your own unique WEP security key please click here
Not using wireless?

If you are using a yellow Ethernet cable to connect your modem to your computer then you may disable the wireless access. This will prevent others from connecting to your modem wirelessly. Click here for instruction how to do that.

eircom customers who have questions regarding their Netopia wireless modems can fill in an online form or contact our support department directly on 1890 260 260.

Its also been reported in the media numerous times, with all this notification then there is a certain amount of responsibility on your friend to follow the provided instructions to secure his router.

If he didn't then this is his fault.

Now he has a warning letter threatening to disconnect his net, which he needs for his work, basically threatening his livelyhood. I changed his password to protect him from this happening again. .

Speculation or did this actually happen?

If he can show that the router was still using the SSID that could be easily bypaseed then he might have a defense, if eircom can prove they previously notified him then he has none.

This is why eircom won't be disconnecting on the first offence instead they'll warn people and discuss wifi security etc

Basically, if you have not changed your default eircom router password, anyone who can search google can connect to it, because of NAT they appear to have the same IP address as you. How can they cut anyone off with such security breeches.

Wrong!
This applys to the default WEP key on a OLD eircom routers only.

However all new routers don't have this issue and they don't even use WEP anymore instead they use WPA-PSK.

Atleast if your going to comment on stuff then please get your facts straight before you attempt scaremongering and generalizations

Cabaal

evolutionqy7 wrote: »

well thats what ive been told not 100% of irelands law but every one on the internet is saying that aslong as you have the proof of the original its ok to have a back up it doesnt give you the right to download it but by downloading it you will have a back up...i doubt some one will check where did the CD-R come from or w/e

So you heard it from a friend?
Seriously?

If your going to attempt to pass something off as fact then please back it up, misleading information helps nobody. You might find http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ helpful if you want to research this.

Treora

Ciaran500 wrote: »

They download a torrent and get a list of all the IP's downloading and uploading from that torrent.

So effectively an IP black list. Is there anyway of finding out what are the IP black lists for Irish ISPs, either set by themselves or, prescribed by the government?

Hank Scorpio

Treora wrote: »

So effectively an IP black list. Is there anyway of finding out what are the IP black lists for Irish ISPs, either set by themselves or, prescribed by the government?

RIPE possibly, not sure tbh

Nerin

Simple question- who is taking part in these undercover shenanigans and downloading the torrents to get the IPs?

mneylon

nuxxx wrote: »

RIPE possibly, not sure tbh

No
RIPE has nothing to do with blacklists of any kind

Jumpy

Nerin wrote: »

Simple question- who is taking part in these undercover shenanigans and downloading the torrents to get the IPs?

dTectNet.

They are legally allowed by IRMA to do so.

mneylon

Jumpy wrote: »

dTectNet.

They are legally allowed by IRMA to do so.

Aren't they a US company?

axer

Peanut wrote: »

- Over what time period do the infringements have to happen in order to count? 4 intentional or not infringements in a year may be a lot, but over a number of years?

- What happens if/when other ISPs are compelled to adopt this? Will they share ban details between them?

This raises the prospect of internet access being completely cut off for a year without recourse to other providers, purely on the basis of non personally identifiable information (IP address).

The fact that this is a company policy rather than a legal sanction will be moot if the other ISPs are forced to comply.

Maybe oulira could answer the first question at least since he/she seems to be from Eircom or IRMA or dTectNet (or someone involved).

Cabaal

Blacknight wrote: »

Aren't they a US company?

http://www.dtecnet.com/
They operate out of America, UK, France and Denmark, look like they started in the USA in 2004

BrianD

evolutionqy7 wrote: »

well thats what ive been told not 100% of irelands law but every one on the internet is saying that aslong as you have the proof of the original its ok to have a back up it doesnt give you the right to download it but by downloading it you will have a back up...i doubt some one will check where did the CD-R come from or w/e

What you've been told is wrong. You don't even have the right to make a "back up copy" on any CD that you have purchased.

Nerin

So IRMA, an irish music group, are giving permission to a foreign company, to break the law and download pirated material (will this just be Irish artists materials?), grab IP addresses, give them to Eircom and let them punish users. Yes?

BrianD

Nerin wrote: »

So IRMA, an irish music group, are giving permission to a foreign company, to break the law and download pirated material (will this just be Irish artists materials?), grab IP addresses, give them to Eircom and let them punish users. Yes?

the courts have already decided that they are not breaking the law and in fact IRMA ended up with a judgement that they could only have dreamed of.

The fact is that it's Eircoms pipe that they provide as a service and thet can decide how its used and monitor it. Downloading copyrighted material without a waiver or payment is theft. Theft needs to be stopped and this is a more than reasonable and very fair way of doing it.

It makes no odds where the company is from, we're a small country and nearly everything is foreign owned - UPC, Eircom, Vodafone, O2, Three ...

Jumpy

BrianD wrote: »

Theft needs to be stopped and this is a more than reasonable and very fair way of doing it.

Would you ban a taxi if they gave a lift to someone carrying stolen goods? Essentially the taxi driver is being forced by the courts to boot out passengers with no proof that they comitted any crime (sorry "civil issue").