Eircom to cut broadband over illegal downloads - READ POST#1 WARNING

jor el

choronzonix wrote: »

I'm slightly confused as to what exactly they'll be monitoring.

They can and will monitor whatever they want. And as I already said, this is not to become a what can I get away with downloading thread.

axer

choronzonix wrote: »

So what seems to begoing to happen is that this company will bemonitoring a variety of p2p/torrent site traffic and nabbing the ip addresses of Eircom users right?

No they wont be monitoring the site traffic as such - although they will be monitoring what is out there. They will be monitoring who is sharing files or bits of files. I wouldn't be surprised if they created a bit torrent client or otherwise that can automate finding these ip addresses to pass to eircom.

choronzonix wrote: »

So presumably they'll never be able to monitor every p2p site out there - but what I'm most wondering about are the private bittorrent sites, are these immune from this kind of monitoring? I'm slightly confused as to what exactly they'll be monitoring.

Not exactly because all they need is a torrent file to see who is seeding and leeching etc.

axer

EasyBoy1974 wrote: »

Something else strikes me - in the original article, Dick Doyle of Irma says “We are trying to encourage people to go back to legitimate networks to get their music,” but really, if you think about it, without illegal music downloads there would be no legitimate networks - it was only under extreme pressure that the music labels capitulated and allowed downloads - they wanted to cling on to their old business model!

They are saying they want to get back to people paying.

FloatingVoter

Once again, Eircom get attention for themselves...
http://torrentfreak.com/irish-isp-and-major-music-labels-ready-to-disconnect-pirates-100524/

yoyo

jor el wrote: »

They already do, and have been for some time. Another common approach is to use fake or corrupt data, to corrupt the download.

As for the likes of Rapidshare, it would be very easy for them to request the IP data of the person that uploaded a copyright file, as well as those for all downloaders. Whether RS will supply this info or not, I couldn't say, but you are as tracable using RS as you are when using torrents.

Rapidshare doesn't log any information about the file a user download, so would have no information to give, from their privacy policy:

Will RapidShare communicate information about the files a customer has downloaded to third parties?

* No. RapidShare does not store this information. Accordingly, we could not pass on this information, even if we wanted to. The prohibition of such logs is an inherent part of the contract for all our customers and we don't handle this differently for those who use the Free hosting either.

Which data does RapidShare store when I am downloading a normal file (without "Logged TrafficShare" files)?

* If you are using a Premium Account, the amount of data, the date of your download and the beginning of your IP-address will be stored linked to your account-ID
* You can review this data within your Premium Zone and therefore check whether your account has been used by someone else without your consent. This data will be used for traffic calculation and, as the case may be, provide hints for impermissible account-sharing and will be deleted after 30 days.
* If you are not using a Premium-Account, the amount of data will be stored temporarily, linked to your IP address. This data will only be used to calculate the traffic for Free-Users and will be deleted after about two hours. In no case will we store information about which data has been downloaded by which IP address or Premium Account.

Nick

EasyBoy1974

axer wrote: »

They are saying they want to get back to people paying.

I get the sentiment of the statement - i just think it's disingenuous - the implication here is that all along the content providers have been trying to offer digital music to their customers when, in fact, it was only due to the massive popularity of p2p (illegal though it is) that they offer any digital services at all!

DirkVoodoo

I think the article should have been called "Eircom to shoot themselves in the foot". Struggling against UPC and now kowtowing to IRMA, I'm not advocating piracy but it sends out the wrong message to customers. Sure, stop the big guys, but Eircom don't look so great when they are endangering user privacy for downloading one or two tunes. It's opening the door for more and more privacy violation which is what worries me.

I think I will move to UPC anyway.

choronzonix

EasyBoy1974 wrote: »

I get the sentiment of the statement - i just think it's disingenuous - the implication here is that all along the content providers have been trying to offer digital music to their customers when, in fact, it was only due to the massive popularity of p2p (illegal though it is) that they offer any digital services at all!

This.

They seem to be trying to justify their own existence. In a world where the rules have completely changed regarding the value of music and how it's distributed, the likes of IMRA's sole purpose seems to be to protect the interests of Bono and his ilk. Looking at the way they've recently tried to tackle blogs is proof of how worthless and irrelevant they really are.

sink

Karmafaerie wrote: »

And where did you find out about the file?
Through a forum or cummunity.

Dtecnet will be monitoring these communities, and it doesn't matter if the file is named "I'm a legal download" if there's a forum or group sharing it, all they have to do is download it themselves and they'll know what it is.

They are going to have group of people who's job it is it monitor rapidshare groups.

Only the site owners can identify the I.P. of their visitors without some illegal hacking going on. For instance boards.ie can see my I.P. address but you can't nor can anyone else without access.

RangeR

sink wrote: »

Only the site owners can identify the I.P. of their visitors without some illegal hacking going on. For instance boards.ie can see my I.P. address but you can't nor can anyone else without access.

Technically not that correct.

On a side note, Eircom won't lose as many customers as people are making out.

jor el

RangeR wrote: »

On a side note, Eircom won't lose as many customers as people are making out.

And they'll probably be quite happy to lose those customers too, since illegal downloaders tend to be the biggest bandwidth hogs (cause most expense to the ISP).

ZeRoY

nuxxx wrote: »

I wonder if this affects rapidshare downloads or just torrents

P2P with Public Trackers only (last time i looked that what the third party company like MediaSentry were using to "catch" the leechers)

ZeRoY

vectra wrote: »

How can anyone say exactly what you are downloading from Rapidshare?

They cannot. You dont seriously think Eircom or third-party agencies are now gonna start monitoring via proxy everyhting that comes and go on HTTP?!

Its a lame and useless decision by Eircom that will make ZERO difference to the situation.

ZeRoY

EasyBoy1974 wrote: »

Before anyone says "you've nothing to fear unless you're illegally downloading", i don't buy that for a second. I don't trust Eircom or Irma or anyone else with the power to cut off Internet access - it's should be a fundamental human right in my opinion.

+10 - Especially with the great Secure Wireless Router Eircom was supplying for a while, you know the one anyone can connect to using a little java applet :rolleyes: / So your neighboor or a dude in the street uses your BB and you get caught, lovely :eek:

RobitTV

Just use a Proxy server As they have different Ip Addreas to yours

sink

RangeR wrote: »

Technically not that correct.

Can you explain it to me? I would like to know.

Scram

so how do you go about switching ISP? is it easy will my net be cut off for weeks till they reconnect me?

DjRickster

Cable operator UPC has resisted requests from Irma to implement a “three strikes” system and the case is in the courts next month. Last night, a spokeswoman for UPC said it does not see any legal basis for monitoring or blocking its subscribers’ activities.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2010/0524/1224271013389.html

RangeR

sink wrote: »

Can you explain it to me? I would like to know.

I'll indulge a little bit. I'm not going to go into great detail as there is a LOT of mis-information in this thread and I don't want to be typing all night. I hope you understand.

You said:

sink wrote: »

Only the site owners can identify the I.P. of their visitors without some illegal hacking going on. For instance boards.ie can see my I.P. address but you can't nor can anyone else without access.

Now, if you purely take P2P [torrent etc] traffic. If I wanted to find infringers, all I'd have to do would be seed a file that looks like the greatest movie or best album at this moment in time. I then just sit back and watch all the IP address connect. I just log them. Within maybe an hour, I could have tens of thousands of IP addresses. It's THAT easy. A proxy won't help you at all. Your machine is connecting to mine. ISP's [eircom] don't even have to give me their IP Address space as that's public knowledge anyway. A quick Geo Search per IP Address gives me all the information I need. Your ISP takes care of the rest.

sink

RangeR wrote: »

Now, if you purely take P2P [torrent etc] traffic. If I wanted to find infringers, all I'd have to do would be seed a file that looks like the greatest movie or best album at this moment in time. I then just sit back and watch all the IP address connect. I just log them. Within maybe an hour, I could have tens of thousands of IP addresses. It's THAT easy. A proxy won't help you at all. Your machine is connecting to mine. ISP's [eircom] don't even have to give me their IP Address space as that's public knowledge anyway. A quick Geo Search per IP Address gives me all the information I need. Your ISP takes care of the rest.

I understand that in the case of P2P, but i'm specifically talking about direct download sites such as Rapidshare and Megaupload, and the webforums which share their download links. How would a third party identify who is visiting and downloading from those sites?

ntlbell

RangeR wrote: »

I'll indulge a little bit. I'm not going to go into great detail as there is a LOT of mis-information in this thread and I don't want to be typing all night. I hope you understand.

You said:


Now, if you purely take P2P [torrent etc] traffic. If I wanted to find infringers, all I'd have to do would be seed a file that looks like the greatest movie or best album at this moment in time. I then just sit back and watch all the IP address connect. I just log them. Within maybe an hour, I could have tens of thousands of IP addresses. It's THAT easy. A proxy won't help you at all. Your machine is connecting to mine. ISP's [eircom] don't even have to give me their IP Address space as that's public knowledge anyway. A quick Geo Search per IP Address gives me all the information I need. Your ISP takes care of the rest.

huh? if you're tunneling the traffic via another source e.g. external IP the IP seen at your end will be that of the external/poxied machine.

You can also force all torrent traffic over an encrypted tunnel like ssh etc, you won't see the originating external address on your side at all...

It's not difficult to circumvent but it might be just enough to put joe utorrent off enough to not bother.

ntlbell

sink wrote: »

I understand that in the case of P2P, but i'm specifically talking about direct download sites such as Rapidshare and Megaupload, and the webforums which share their download links. How would a third party identify who is visiting and downloading from those sites?

a 3rd party won't be able to.

Eircom could, but they stated previously they won't be monitoring any traffic.

watty

"they" have been known to infect sites, hack sites, use trojans, place watermarked content with unique watermark per site, and even set up sites or even use court orders.

P2P is also suseptible to "man in the middle" attacks. As is regular downloads and HTTPS.

yoyo

sink wrote: »

I understand that in the case of P2P, but i'm specifically talking about direct download sites such as Rapidshare and Megaupload, and the webforums which share their download links. How would a third party identify who is visiting and downloading from those sites?

They can't, they are going after P2P uploaders only, if you use public torrents and download the latest music/tv shows/movies etc you could be flagged, if you use Usenet, Rapidshare etc you can't realistically unless they take warez forums to court which chances of happening are slim, afaik rapidshare et all encrypt your connection so it downloads from a secure connection

Nick

Dcully

As much as i dislike eircom im personally delighted to see a means to stop the SERIOUS leechers.
Im not on about your average joe who might download a movie a month or so.
Theres quite a few guys on my exchange that openly brag about what they download with their pc downloading movies 24 hours a day at times.
I kid you not these guys download 30-40 movies per week and often stick them on external HDs and give them to their buddies,neighbours etc and laugh at it.

Its these leechers that can slow things down for everyone else that ive no sympathy for,my only concern is i dont trust eircom to be 100% correct in their assumption someone has being abusing the system so to speak.
I can see lots of innocent users getting screwed such is eircoms incompetence.

sink

yoyo wrote: »

They can't, they are going after P2P uploaders only, if you use public torrents and download the latest music/tv shows/movies etc you could be flagged, if you use Usenet, Rapidshare etc you can't realistically unless they take warez forums to court which chances of happening are slim, afaik rapidshare et all encrypt your connection so it downloads from a secure connection

Nick

Thanks, that's what I thought.

axer

RangeR wrote: »

Now, if you purely take P2P [torrent etc] traffic. If I wanted to find infringers, all I'd have to do would be seed a file that looks like the greatest movie or best album at this moment in time. I then just sit back and watch all the IP address connect. I just log them. Within maybe an hour, I could have tens of thousands of IP addresses. It's THAT easy. A proxy won't help you at all. Your machine is connecting to mine. ISP's [eircom] don't even have to give me their IP Address space as that's public knowledge anyway. A quick Geo Search per IP Address gives me all the information I need. Your ISP takes care of the rest.

Dude, you are talking about something completely different to that which you quoted.

The people that will get caught out are the casual downloaders downloading the odd bit here and there. Anyone that downloads seriously knows what to use so that you are not at risk.

Stab*City

ZeRoY wrote: »

+10 - Especially with the great Secure Wireless Router Eircom was supplying for a while, you know the one anyone can connect to using a little java applet :rolleyes: / So your neighboor or a dude in the street uses your BB and you get caught, lovely :eek:

If your still using this router in this day and age and have not changed your ssid then its your own fault.. In the area where i live which is sort of a little square there is one of these networks.. i logged into the router just to have a look at the logs and you wouldnt believe the amount of traffic.. Porn, music, movies and more.. I counted 7 ip addresses connected same time as me..

As for the 3 strikes wont really effect me at the moment as im with a different provider. Luckily as sometimes my weekly downloads can reach into the 100's of gigs.. Like when i hacked my Wii i downloaded 100 gigs of games in 2 days.. I am an internet pirate arrgghhh... When i look at the amount of money i have spent on music, film and games before i started to pirate i have one thought for bono and the other billionares.. F**K U!! I mean when i think back to spending €30 on a cd or vinyl they totally ripped me off.. Now its my turn.. What really makes me laugh is the bands like metallica and U2 who had already become bagillionaires before the F**KING Internet was even born harping on about the damage its doing to the music business.. Go back before the internet and it was the music business killing the music business..

Long live the internet the last wild frontier.

ZeRoY

Dcully wrote: »

Its these leechers that can slow things down for everyone else that ive no sympathy for,my only concern is i dont trust eircom to be 100% correct in their assumption someone has being abusing the system so to speak.

Funny enough i would also think those "leechers" are responsible for the higher speeds available to everyone else these days -- Inflating the bandwidth overall usage for ISP reports

ZeRoY

Stab*City wrote: »

If your still using this router in this day and age and have not changed your ssid then its your own fault..

I totally agree here - the problem is, i bet you many peeps with no computer knowledge are still using it. Its these customers that will start been a problem for Eircom if they are shutdown. Or at least it will generate some customer services calls to deal with!