Eircom to cut broadband over illegal downloads - READ POST#1 WARNING

java

zoom41 wrote: »

Needless to say i could'nt have this happing again and have since changed ISP.

Curious to know what ISP you changed to seeing as eircom isn't alone in implementing the 3-strikes court order. Which reminds me, anyone know how UPC are doing in the court at present?

java

java wrote: »

Curious to know what ISP you changed to seeing as eircom isn't alone in implementing the 3-strikes court order. Which reminds me, anyone know how UPC are doing in the court at present?

Eircom currently is the only ISP implementing three strikes in Ireland.

zoom!

It seems that a lot of people are just annoyed that they can't torrent anymore and they're using this 'human rights' excuse to get their beloved pirate bay back.

I disagree that third party institutions are to provide our information to somebody else. It's like hiring a stalker to get information about somebody, and it those words what eircom have agreed to is against human rights. But on the other hand, artists and people who work in label companies deserve to get some profit out of the work they do. Don't get me wrong, I doubt the huge amount of pirating going in is effecting them as they have an outreagous amount of money that they don't really deserve, but it's their right to be able to make money from what they do.

I have always thought of eircom as a really nice organisation. I mean I went over the download limit quite a lot and although they have all these threats about charging, they never did. They know what people want and know that what they've agreed to will lose them customers but I don't think they had a choice. Eircom have a choice wether to actually take action form the information they've given and I'd say most of the time they try and let people off as best they can.

dub45

And can you tell us exactly and once and for all which human rights you are talking about?

jor el

zoom! wrote: »

I disagree that third party institutions are to provide our information to somebody else. It's like hiring a stalker to get information about somebody, and it those words what eircom have agreed to is against human rights.

No one is providing personal or private information to anyone else. Anyone using a P2P network is freely sharing that information with the entire world. All that is happening is someone is writing this down, and then letting the ISP know. No rights violation, no stalking, nothing like that.

scamalert

Ok received the letter today from these scumbags,that my internet connection gonna be disconnected in 5 days time,due to illegal music downloads and another 60gb every month of stuff from torrents :pac: .So basically i dont give two F***s about getting disconnected,just want to know once they do disconnect me does it mean im out of the contract and will i have to pay any bills for that month or so ? as ive been ridiculed by these bastards for the last 5 years getting speeds of 3-2mbs and paying over 100e every two months for the service which they cant support due to the line problems and other stuff instead of getting 8mbs or even 5 :rolleyes:.

RangeR

scamalert wrote: »

Ok received the letter today from these scumbags,that my internet connection gonna be disconnected in 5 days time,due to illegal music downloads and another 60gb every month of stuff from torrents :pac: .So basically i dont give two F***s about getting disconnected,just want to know once they do disconnect me does it mean im out of the contract and will i have to pay any bills for that month or so ? as ive been ridiculed by these bastards for the last 5 years getting speeds of 3-2mbs and paying over 100e every two months for the service which they cant support due to the line problems and other stuff instead of getting 8mbs or even 5 :rolleyes:.

You're pissed because you got your first warning letter, so you kept on "downloading"?
You then received your second warning letter, and you kept on downloading?
You then received your THIRD letter informing you of disconnection?

I understand that you are pissed but let's not cloud the issue. How are they scumbags? The state of your line is relevant to why you are pissed. If it was that bad, you should have changed provider.

To answer your question, eircom are cancelling your contract. You don't have to pay anything after this month but you DO have to pay for what you've used this month, pro rata.

zoom41

java wrote: »

Curious to know what ISP you changed to seeing as eircom isn't alone in implementing the 3-strikes court order. Which reminds me, anyone know how UPC are doing in the court at present?

I changed to Magnet, great service and no postman opening the mail anymore

scamalert

RangeR wrote: »

You're pissed because you got your first warning letter, so you kept on "downloading"?
You then received your second warning letter, and you kept on downloading?
You then received your THIRD letter informing you of disconnection?

I understand that you are pissed but let's not cloud the issue. How are they scumbags? The state of your line is relevant to why you are pissed. If it was that bad, you should have changed provider.

To answer your question, eircom are cancelling your contract. You don't have to pay anything after this month but you DO have to pay for what you've used this month, pro rata.

No i only got one letter stating that i will be disconnected for 7 days to sort myself out.they are scum because my phone line is like 50 years old live in town,and every couple months theres troubles with the internet being down,constant disconnections,weekends are almost impossible to use is that NGB :pac: and they are charging over 55 quid every month for internet that cant F***ing load youtube videos without buffering on low quality,why i didnt switch is reason because theres only couple companies and they offer same ****ty speeds,anyway today i cancelled my contract with them as will be moving houses soon,so hopefully get upc in coming weeks.As im not going to put up with the state law where some c**ts are filtering my downloads,and watching over the shoulder.As for downloading stuff all those artists/movie makers can go feck themselves,if i like the movie,singer ,game i might buy it but not every $hit that comes out is even worth a penny,as i dont feel any pitty for all the companies who made this law up,as every time theres new movie song coming out you hear stories first day sales hits 10 million and so on stuff.Bought only like 5 original cds in my life,and can say that maybe i listened one of them fully,while i have another 3000songs on my hard drive software for another 5k and if i was to buy any of that i might aswell be a monkey ,if need be ill rather change providers,use proxy and anything i can but ill download what i want and then choose what is worth my money and what is not.

RangeR

scamalert wrote: »

OMFGIHAVEAHEADACHE

Just going to pop you onto my ignore list...

Ranicand

scamalert wrote: »

No i only got one letter stating that i will be disconnected for 7 days to sort myself out.they are scum because my phone line is like 50 years old live in town,and every couple months theres troubles with the internet being down,constant disconnections,weekends are almost impossible to use is that NGB :pac: and they are charging over 55 quid every month for internet that cant F***ing load youtube videos without buffering on low quality,why i didnt switch is reason because theres only couple companies and they offer same ****ty speeds,anyway today i cancelled my contract with them as will be moving houses soon,so hopefully get upc in coming weeks.As im not going to put up with the state law where some c**ts are filtering my downloads,and watching over the shoulder.As for downloading stuff all those artists/movie makers can go feck themselves,if i like the movie,singer ,game i might buy it but not every $hit that comes out is even worth a penny,as i dont feel any pitty for all the companies who made this law up,as every time theres new movie song coming out you hear stories first day sales hits 10 million and so on stuff.Bought only like 5 original cds in my life,and can say that maybe i listened one of them fully,while i have another 3000songs on my hard drive software for another 5k and if i was to buy any of that i might aswell be a monkey ,if need be ill rather change providers,use proxy and anything i can but ill download what i want and then choose what is worth my money and what is not.

Could you repeat that in English please.:D

While many might agree with the point your trying to make the lack of spaces and the filthy language in your paragraph do nothing to advance your cause.

Ranicand

RangeR wrote: »

Just going to pop you onto my ignore list...

And I did the same as you great idea.:D

briany

I wonder why people put up diatribes about why they pirate stuff online, trying to justify their actions. I think if your going to do it, then do it. Why try to post the same old kind of arguments to people who will come back with the same old kind of morality, and if you are going to do it, do it as safe and clever as you possibly can in your own self interest.

colm_mcm

Hve you read the first post on this thread scamalert?

scamalert

colm_mcm wrote: »

Hve you read the first post on this thread scamalert?

Just did,so basically you said,kiss eircoms a$$ or move providers.Ill go with the second choice :cool:

colm_mcm

scamalert wrote: »

Just did,so basically you said,kiss eircoms a$$ or move providers.Ill go with the second choice :cool:

I mean post #1 warning as mentioned in the thread title

wolf99

I'm wondering how do the ISPS (or third party monitoring company) detect illegal downloads? How are they differentiated from legal downloads (even legal downloads of copyrighted material)?

Does Eircom or whoever, offer any recourse for wrongly identified downloading?

RangeR

wolf99 wrote: »

I'm wondering how do the ISPS (or third party monitoring company) detect illegal downloads? How are they differentiated from legal downloads (even legal downloads of copyrighted material)?

Does Eircom or whoever, offer any recourse for wrongly identified downloading?

You really should research this issue [and maybe read the thread]. ISP's don't do this. Third Party companies do it for the media empires. They just give a list of Eircom IP addresses to Eircom and tell them that these are infringers. Eircom are then required to initiate or continue the Three Strike Rule.

Edit : For completeness. One way they do this would be to host a copyright file [or one that purports to be] as a torrent. they would then just take a note of the IP Addresses that connect to it. It really is shooting fish in a barrel. they sometimes get it wrong but...

Generally, NOTHING you do on the internet is anonymous. You can always be tracked back to your connection [house, apartment, dorm, internet cafe] from anywhere in the world. All it takes is time and the "justice" system.

wolf99

Yes. As I mentioned:

wolf99 wrote: »

(or third party monitoring company)

I did research it. Basically everyone seems very vague... seems they do it, but no-one really knows how.

As for reading through 66 pages of a thread.... I read the first few and some of the last few, but otherwise I'd imagine it'd be a waste of a day so I just asked

Note though that the Q's I asked in the previous post also stand for uploading, if that is what you were referring to

ED E

wolf99 wrote: »

I'm wondering how do the ISPS (or third party monitoring company) detect illegal downloads? How are they differentiated from legal downloads (even legal downloads of copyrighted material)?

Does Eircom or whoever, offer any recourse for wrongly identified downloading?

They hop on the trackers for torrents of media they own the rights to. Only torrenting on public trackers can be picked up.

UCD did it at one point for a study, cant remember what they were trying to find out, but its pretty simple. They just hop on the torrent but dont download anything.

wolf99

Thanks ED E.
That sounds horribly time consuming and inefficient.

scamalert

RangeR wrote: »

You really should research this issue [and maybe read the thread]. ISP's don't do this. Third Party companies do it for the media empires. They just give a list of Eircom IP addresses to Eircom and tell them that these are infringers. Eircom are then required to initiate or continue the Three Strike Rule.

Edit : For completeness. One way they do this would be to host a copyright file [or one that purports to be] as a torrent. they would then just take a note of the IP Addresses that connect to it. It really is shooting fish in a barrel. they sometimes get it wrong but...

Generally, NOTHING you do on the internet is anonymous. You can always be tracked back to your connection [house, apartment, dorm, internet cafe] from anywhere in the world. All it takes is time and the "justice" system.

Easy eircom doesnt filter the downloads,but the intrested companies who eircom signed with have permission to filter stuff from various websites list,mostly torrents sites,and when they detect your downloading a link to one of them they have permission to register your ip and get more info.
anyway i hate such nanny state policies and moved to o2 for time being until get sorted with moving houses,as for now im getting up to 7mbps speed with tiny usb stick where eircom cant support 3mbs on constant basis,ironic.

RangeR

wolf99 wrote: »

Thanks ED E.
That sounds horribly time consuming and inefficient.

Actually, it's probably the MOST efficient way of doing it.

Attach to tracker. Leave PC there for a few days. Scoop the IP Addresses. It's, maybe 5, minutes of work for someone to do. In that time, you scoop hundreds thousands of potential infringers.

Most of this would be automated, potentially identifying and notifying the ISP.

wolf99

But first surely, they need to identify each and every torrent that they are concerned with? No mean feat with hardly any torrent or torrent files are named for what they actually are.
Of course a regular web search would scoop a lot, but doing this for every piece of material they might be concerned with, and trying to cover those that aren't picked up by a regular search.
If automated, which I expect it is, I imagine that the process would falsely identify substantial amounts of copyrighted, but legitimate, traffic....

RangeR

wolf99 wrote: »

But first surely, they need to identify each and every torrent that they are concerned with? No mean feat with hardly any torrent or torrent files are named for what they actually are.
Of course a regular web search would scoop a lot, but doing this for every piece of material they might be concerned with, and trying to cover those that aren't picked up by a regular search.
If automated, which I expect it is, I imagine that the process would falsely identify substantial amounts of copyrighted, but legitimate, traffic....

Of course there is potential for false positive. Unfortunately, the nature of Three Strike Rule puts the burden of proof on customers, not eircom.

Make no mistake, eircom can kick anyone off it's network for any [non discriminatory] reason. It's their network.

These third parties don't have to monitor EVERY tracker. As always in business, it's a cost benefit exercise. If they monitor, say, the top 10 torrents, they will actually track the majority of infringers.

As for false positives, if they host the torrent, themselves [by prior agreement from the copyright holder], they get a 100% hit rate.

Generally, these companies go after uploaders only. However, generally, the very nature of torrents is that if you are downloading, you are also uploading. If said company hosts, say, the top 10 movies and the top 10 music singles / albums, they WILL get a 100% hit rate and the majority of actual torrenters.

Alternatively, the companies just connect to actual swarms. They download the file, verify that it's a copyright infringement then just sit there scooping IP Addresses of everyone that connects.

It's very easy to do. You could do it, I could do it. Anyone can do it. All you need is a torrent client. The difference between you or me doing it compared to "The companies" is that their "client" would have an IP Scooper built in.

ED E

Not exactly relevant, but very interesting all the same.

http://torrentfreak.com/google-builds-largest-database-of-links-to-pirated-media-120717/

The nature of torrents makes it pretty much impossible for the record companies to compete. Attacking public trackers just forces people onto private ones where they cant monitor activity, and if they hit them it just moves back up a tier to usenet.

Eventually they will give up, or we'll get packet inspection(good luck to any ISP who introduces that).

briany

If a member of the infringement police can get an invite to a private tracker, what's to stop them taking the IPs on the torrents they join?

I suppose it all comes back to time and effort. Trying to blag your way into those sites would be more time consuming. Why go after that relatively small community when you could get the IPs from the wider torrenting community. That's also true on the IP side as I think Eircom don't really want the time and effort of giving these notices to end users. After all, these users constitute most of Eircom's income disconnecting them only gets them less money, bolsters their competitors and generates bad will.

It's truly amazing that they persist with this in 2012. What do they hope to achieve with having users disconnected anyway? Can they be so naive as to think it'll help end P2P downloading? I can only think that this is a way of punishing ISPs for allowing the activity rather than trying to punishing the end user for engaging in it.

ED E

We cant really go into how the privates protect themselves as thats toeing the line for the boards ToS.


Suffice to say they are many and many are going a lonnnnng time.

scamalert

if im not mistaking every time you connect to the internet you get new ip from eircom,so it means eircom logs every time ip to the customers name account, and keeps it in database somewhere and provides with details interested parties.Anyway its useless fight as anyone with a bit of knowledge can easily set up proxy server,only thing is eircom is mostly useless for that as download speeds are to ridiculous to download proper 1080p movie rip or anything above 5gbs.as it takes days.

java

scamalert wrote: »

if im not mistaking every time you connect to the internet you get new ip from eircom

not always

scamalert wrote: »

so it means eircom logs every time ip to the customers name account, and keeps it in database somewhere

as does every ISP on the planet

scamalert wrote: »

and provides with details interested parties.

no they don't

scamalert wrote: »

Anyway its useless fight as anyone with a bit of knowledge can easily set up proxy server,

proxy servers are not anonymous.