Eircom to cut broadband over illegal downloads - READ POST#1 WARNING

jimmycrackcorm

Does IRMA not realize that no matter what they do nor how many people Eircom kick off that they won't get the sales back.

Scan Man

I see in this article that UPC might not be the best choice to change to either, as they're currently in court fighting against having to implement the same rules.

The IRMA is dead set on this seemly. Even though, as has been said, it will do nothing for sales. If downloading is gone, I probably won't bother listening to music as I never used to buy CDs before starting downloading anyway. But I do feel sorry for music lovers who will be screwed by this.

http://www.dmwmedia.com/news/2010/05/24/irish-isp-eircom-debuts-quotthreestrikesquot-policy-filesharing

electrogrimey

Scan Man wrote: »

I see in this article that UPC might not be the best choice to change to either, as they're currently in court fighting against having to implement the same rules.

The IRMA is dead set on this seemly. Even though, as has been said, it will do nothing for sales. If downloading is gone, I probably won't bother listening to music as I never used to buy CDs before starting downloading anyway. But I do feel sorry for music lovers who will be screwed by this.

http://www.dmwmedia.com/news/2010/05/24/irish-isp-eircom-debuts-quotthreestrikesquot-policy-filesharing

No music lovers will be screwed by this. Music lovers buy music to support the artists they love.

It's even more baffling how they can tell by the title of the file whether or not it's copyrighted. Are there any links to details of how it will be implemented?

Treora

How are they operating this on a technical level?

• service tracing
• server tracing
• port tracing
• file type
• file name
• file data markers
• file output spectrum comparison?

All of these are easily overcome, though I don't advocate it. But these are technical and require a small creative workaround. Ah good old Singapore civil rights and justice. When is Ryan getting back the fibre backbone?

jimi_t2

electrogrimey wrote: »

No music lovers will be screwed by this. Music lovers buy music to support the artists they love.

It's even more baffling how they can tell by the title of the file whether or not it's copyrighted. Are there any links to details of how it will be implemented?

It doesn't make an arse of difference WHAT you're downloading.

If you're downloading anything above the ''average'' user (i.e. a Granny who uses email once a week) then you're sticking your head over the precipice and given a fair whack. Eircom doesn't want high bandwith users regardless, and anything transferring thats not http or flash is going to get pruned.

They don't need to implement anything, they just want to be able to say that Piracy dropped X% so they can justify any further action into your civil liberties.

Won't be long now before you get your Harddrives scanned with a ''pattern matching algorithim'' or some such nonsense at customs. US border patrol are more or less allowed take your laptop away and fiddle with it.

Its not a law thats been implemented, just the right of Eircom to defend the IRMA as a matter of company policy. Nothing legal can be done about it AFAIK.

Mathiasb

Eircom is an ISP. Internet Service Provider. They provide you with a connection to a network. That's it. What you do on that network, is none of their business.

Imagine if your postman looked at your envelope and said "this looks suspicious, I will open it and inform private companies about what's in it".

Not only is it illegal, but it's retarded as well.

On the other hand, the only people who are going to be affected by this, are your common teenagers who don't know how to get "stuff" over the Internet in "the right way".

So, they're just going to put people in debt for no realistic reason.

Ciaran500

Treora wrote: »

How are they operating this on a technical level?

• service tracing
• server tracing
• port tracing
• file type
• file name
• file data markers
• file output spectrum comparison?

All of these are easily overcome, though I don't advocate it. But these are technical and require a small creative workaround. Ah good old Singapore civil rights and justice. When is Ryan getting back the fibre backbone?

They download a torrent and get a list of all the IP's downloading and uploading from that torrent.

vectra

Shut down all ISP's in Ireland and put all the staff on the Dole..
Watch the Government stepping to to tell the IRMA F3kk off

axer

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Does IRMA not realize that no matter what they do nor how many people Eircom kick off that they won't get the sales back.

What are they supposed to do instead? I can see why they are doing this - firstly they have to be looking like they are doing something and secondly they probably dont know what else to do. IRMA are not going to radicalise the music industry.

axer

Ciaran500 wrote: »

They download a torrent and get a list of all the IP's downloading and uploading from that torrent.

I would still challenge that as being inaccurate if I was ever caught since they are not checking have you the full song or whether maybe some of the bits in different parts of the song are different etc. i.e. its not that clear cut doing it that way. Then again there is no court here. Eircom will just process like dumb terminals.

jor el

Where to start. Please engage your brain before posting mindless ranty nonsense and misinformation.

Mathiasb wrote: »

Eircom is an ISP. Internet Service Provider. They provide you with a connection to a network. That's it. What you do on that network, is none of their business.

Since ISPs are being sued for what YOU do with the connection they supply, and since ISPs can actually be held legally responsible for what their customers do, it is very much their business.

Mathiasb wrote: »

Imagine if your postman looked at your envelope and said "this looks suspicious, I will open it and inform private companies about what's in it".

Not only is it illegal, but it's retarded as well.

If a post man opens your mail, that would be illegal. I fail to see how that is any more relevant to this discussion than saying something like murder is illegal. If you're insinuating that eircom are doing something illegal, like snooping on people, or supplying personal and protected data to 3rd parties, then you're as wrong as anything else you've said.

Mathiasb wrote: »

On the other hand, the only people who are going to be affected by this, are your common teenagers who don't know how to get "stuff" over the Internet in "the right way".

Yeah right, a teenager doesn't know you can buy music online, or how to go about it. Teenagers download tonnes of music illegally because they can, not because they don't know how to get it legally.

Mathiasb wrote: »

So, they're just going to put people in debt for no realistic reason.

No idea what you're on about here. How is this going to put anyone in debt?

Mathiasb

jor el wrote: »

Where to start. Please engage your brain before posting mindless ranty nonsense and misinformation.

...

jor el wrote: »

Since ISPs are being sued for what YOU do with the connection they supply, and since ISPs can actually be held legally responsible for what their customers do, it is very much their business.

This is the problem. ISPs shouldn't be sued at all. It's not their problem what their customers do. That's the customer's problem, and a problem for the police (if it's illegal).

jor el wrote: »

If a post man opens your mail, that would be illegal. I fail to see how that is any more relevant to this discussion than saying something like murder is illegal. If you're insinuating that eircom are doing something illegal, like snooping on people, or supplying personal and protected data to 3rd parties, then you're as wrong as anything else you've said.

They _are_ snooping on people. If I download a torrent called "Warcraft collection", which contains mods for WC3, that will probably be flagged by Eircom, because they probably think it's a pirated collection of Warcraft games... which it isn't.

How will they know that it's illegal? They would have to look at what I transfer to and from my computer. That in itself is exactly the same thing as reading someone's snail mail, it's espionage, etc. Whatever you call it, it is/should be illegal, and infringes on privacy.

jor el wrote: »

Yeah right, a teenager doesn't know you can buy music online, or how to go about it. Teenagers download tonnes of music illegally because they can, not because they don't know how to get it legally.

Some buy music online, I prefer to buy CD/DVDs from the bands I like. I mostly listen to the music via .ogg/.flac/.mp3 though. These I get from various online sources, because I don't want to waste the time of ripping my own discs when someone else has already done it.

There's not a problem with this, as I already own the disc.

jor el wrote: »

No idea what you're on about here. How is this going to put anyone in debt?

[/quote]

The MAFIAA of Ireland will probably sue/drag the people "exposed" by Eircom to court, which they obviously won't be able to afford.

axer

Mathiasb wrote: »

They _are_ snooping on people. If I download a torrent called "Warcraft collection", which contains mods for WC3, that will probably be flagged by Eircom, because they probably think it's a pirated collection of Warcraft games... which it isn't.

Show my evidence that they are watching what you download?

Mathiasb wrote: »

How will they know that it's illegal? They would have to look at what I transfer to and from my computer. That in itself is exactly the same thing as reading someone's snail mail, it's espionage, etc. Whatever you call it, it is/should be illegal, and infringes on privacy.

But they are not watching ANYTHING you download.

Mathiasb wrote: »

Some buy music online, I prefer to buy CD/DVDs from the bands I like. I mostly listen to the music via .ogg/.flac/.mp3 though. These I get from various online sources, because I don't want to waste the time of ripping my own discs when someone else has already done it.

There's not a problem with this, as I already own the disc.

And there is absolutely no problem there. Its when you share your music with others whom you don't know whether they have the disc.

Mathiasb wrote: »

The MAFIAA of Ireland will probably sue/drag the people "exposed" by Eircom to court, which they obviously won't be able to afford.

They won't have anybody's contact details so they wont be able to. They just have an IP and eircom do the rest so that they do not have to give the details to IRMA/DTecNet. Plus nobody is going to be sued - they will warn 3 times then disconnect you.

I cannot believe I am being pushed into looking like defending (i'm not) I am just correcting mis-information.

Mathiasb

So you're all fine with this? You don't see a problem with it?

axer

Mathiasb wrote: »

So you're all fine with this? You don't see a problem with it?

Oh god :rolleyes:

axer wrote: »

I cannot believe I am being pushed into looking like defending (i'm not) I am just correcting mis-information.

Zascar

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Basically Dtecnet will monitor the internet illegal sharing.As in rapidshare forums, torrent sites etc.

Eircom will have given them a list of their IP ranges, and they will cross referece the sharers with the IP's.

Anyone who has an Eircom account and is sharing files, will be passed to Eircom.
Eircom will then warn them, and their name goes on a list.
The monitor every week/month and if it happens again they get warned again.
Three warning is your lot, and then they drop the axe.

Well if this is the case, then its seems pretty simple. If you use a VPN you will have a different IP Address, so when they cross reference the Eircom IP ranges with those who are sharing/downloading, if you use a VPN you will not be in the results sent to eircom. Simple. ?

Hank Scorpio

Is it illegal to download a album when you already own it as a backup?

Or does that only apply if you make a copy of your own cd

Zascar

Does this mean every McDonalds, Starbucks or Hotel in Ireland using Eircom is going to get their broadband disconnected? They cannot 100% ensure no sharing/downloading is going on!

axer

nuxxx wrote: »

Is it illegal to download a album when you already own it as a backup?

Or does that only apply if you make a copy of your own cd

My understanding is that its not illegal for you to download it, it is illegal for the person offering it for download to redistribute the artists music without authorisation.

Again because downloads are next to impossible to prove nobody with be going after downloaders (unless they are selling cds etc) they will be only going after those sharing with others (which you do automatically by downloading via torrents).

axer

Zascar wrote: »

Does this mean every McDonalds, Starbucks or Hotel in Ireland using Eircom is going to get their broadband disconnected? They cannot 100% ensure no sharing/downloading is going on!

I would assume that they would block most ports and trottle downloads anyway and then after that I am sure they are risking such a problem but I would assume that due to the nature of their public wireless offering that IRMA et al would treat them differently.

Yawns

They cannot let them be treated any differently tho. If someone hacks my wireless it would be the same thing as them doing it McDonalds.

In for one, in for all.

Yawns

What I would like to know is what happens to a new eircom customer?

Let's say by month 4 he has had 3 warnings then disconnected for the year. That would mean that Eircom have made his contract null & void. Therefore the customer doesn't have to pay them for the remainder of contract etc. If I were that customer I wouldn't even hand the modem back as they have cancelled the contract.

I would send the modem to Mr. Doyle along with a letter saying I have moved to another ISP to continue my activities and he can take a long walk off a short pier.

All of the above is a hypotechnical sit. of course

axer

Yawns wrote: »

They cannot let them be treated any differently tho. If someone hacks my wireless it would be the same thing as them doing it McDonalds.

In for one, in for all.

But lets work in the realms of reality. What would happen in that situation is eircom would contact McDonalds/the hotel and say this is happening. Then they would help them work towards a resolution. I would expect more leniency given to them as they would generally be bigger customers than the regular home user. Anyway places that like if they are setup properly would block uploads from torrents and other p2p so there shouldn't be an issue.

Zascar

This is going to to be such a mess

I'd say it might go the way of the other similar stupid decisions. Remember when they said they were going to ban all provisional drivers unless accompanied etc? If it can't work properly its not going to work at all.

I really can't see them banning hotels and business offering free wifi. Bitbuzz etc? Surely it would be a better idea to monitor the traffic for a few months and just take off the worst offenders. I'm sure the 80/20 rule applies here. Get rid of the top 20% of downloaders/sharers and you'll wipe 80% of the activity.

ntlbell

Zascar wrote: »

This is going to to be such a mess

I'd say it might go the way of the other similar stupid decisions. Remember when they said they were going to ban all provisional drivers unless accompanied etc? If it can't work properly its not going to work at all.

I really can't see them banning hotels and business offering free wifi. Bitbuzz etc? Surely it would be a better idea to monitor the traffic for a few months and just take off the worst offenders. I'm sure the 80/20 rule applies here. Get rid of the top 20% of downloaders/sharers and you'll wipe 80% of the activity.

The vast majority of hotels,wifi hotposts etc have limited ports open and throttle the BW.

so it shouldn't be much of an issue.

axer

Yawns wrote: »

What I would like to know is what happens to a new eircom customer?

Let's say by month 4 he has had 3 warnings then disconnected for the year. That would mean that Eircom have made his contract null & void. Therefore the customer doesn't have to pay them for the remainder of contract etc. If I were that customer I wouldn't even hand the modem back as they have cancelled the contract.

I would send the modem to Mr. Doyle along with a letter saying I have moved to another ISP to continue my activities and he can take a long walk off a short pier.

All of the above is a hypotechnical sit. of course

Except if you read the contract it says:

5.5 Customers may not use the Facility to create, host or transmit material,which infringes the intellectual property rights including, but not limited to, the copyright of another person or organisation.

Mathiasb

People seem to be having a problem with other people using what they are paying for.

All ISP users should be able to max their upload and download 24/7 and get consistent speeds, without any limits.

Too bad that Irish ISPs can get away with quotas...

axer

Zascar wrote: »

Remember when they said they were going to ban all provisional drivers unless accompanied etc?

Who? IRMA? Eircom?

Cabaal

Mathiasb wrote: »

On the other hand, the only people who are going to be affected by this, are your common teenagers who don't know how to get "stuff" over the Internet in "the right way".
.

Hilarious excuse, teenagers know right well that the likes of iTunes exists,

Your example is laughable as its almost like saying a shop lifter doesn't know how to buy stuff the right way
:rolleyes:

The people affected by this will be the bill payer which is not the common teenager it is instead their parents and like parents should they should give out to their child for acting the maggot and breaking the law if eircom contact them (the parent)

Zascar

axer wrote: »

Who? IRMA? Eircom?

Lol no I'm just making an example of other Irish type controversial decisions that people go mad about, but it never seems to really have much impact