Eircom enacts three strikes rule

event

event wrote: »

so can every ISP though

Eircom arent doing this

Ogawd, way to miss the point.
:rolleyes:

johanz

Wouldn't it be illegal to monitor user activity like that anyway?

Jev/N

Deleted User wrote: »

Downloading from Rapidshare and Megaupload involves making a request to Eircom's DNS servers, of which records may be kept.

Or, they could just save all HTTP requests containing specific hostnames (which are obtained from the DNS server); these also contain the URL of the file you are attempting to get.

They're not covered by this settlement though - only peer-to-peer file sharing

Tar.Aldarion

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

If people have an alternative.

http://www.imagine.ie/



I've never had a problem with them.

Mark200

Deleted User wrote: »

http://www.imagine.ie/



I've never had a problem with them.

Well the huge amount of complaints on their facebook page, and a topic about them somewhere on boards would imply that they're not worth the try.

thewools

Anyone download anything lately? - I havn't since they announced this 3 strike rule; but prob going to eh "borrow" a few TV episodes (US) this evening off the p'bay. Will I be okay?

Are Eircom only interested in guys d/loading music which the Irish Recorded Music Association deem copyrighted music.

tiocimarla

thewools wrote: »

Anyone download anything lately? - I havn't since they announced this 3 strike rule; but prob going to eh "borrow" a few TV episodes (US) this evening off the p'bay. Will I be okay?

Are Eircom only interested in guys d/loading music which the Irish Recorded Music Association deem copyrighted music.

If you are only downloading that little then i wouldnt worry, I doubt that will put you into their top 50 bandwidth users for p2p sharing, also they dont know what your downloading tbh, they dont monitor what you download they monitor how much you download

Ciaran500

thewools wrote: »

Anyone download anything lately? - I havn't since they announced this 3 strike rule; but prob going to eh "borrow" a few TV episodes (US) this evening off the p'bay. Will I be okay?

Are Eircom only interested in guys d/loading music which the Irish Recorded Music Association deem copyrighted music.

Its only music "sharers" they're going after and either way you're going to get two warnings before anything happens.

tiocimarla

Just means your gonna have to be a leech for a while, dont seed after download whatever ye do.

Voodu Child

tiocimarla wrote: »

Just means your gonna have to be a leech for a while, dont seed after download whatever ye do.

Irrelevant.

If you are part of a torrent swarm (for copyrighted material), then you are considered to be distributing that material. And your IP address may or may not be logged by one of the companies employed to do this.

Your up/down ratio is completely irrelevant in this scenario, once you are part of that swarm you are considered to be an uploader (and hence distributer) of copyrighted material.

tiocimarla

Voodu Child wrote: »

Irrelevant.

If you are part of a torrent swarm (for copyrighted material), then you are considered to be distributing that material. And your IP address may or may not be logged by one of the companies employed to do this.

Your up/down ratio is completely irrelevant in this scenario, once you are part of that swarm you are considered to be an uploader (and hence distributer) of copyrighted material.

Ye coz your gonna pop up on the radar if you have 5meg uploaded. I dont think so mate, really listen to yourself. They are in this for the top 50 period.

ScumLord

johanz wrote: »

Wouldn't it be illegal to monitor user activity like that anyway?

I wouldn't have thought so, I would have assumed all that information is collected as standard by any server for fault detection. Server record just about everything that they do so you can go back and find problems.

Fuhrer

tiocimarla wrote: »

Ye coz your gonna pop up on the radar if you have 5meg uploaded. I dont think so mate, really listen to yourself. They are in this for the top 50 period.

No they arent.


Anyone at all who is currently downloading whenever they take their list will be "sharing" doesnt matter if you upload 500gb or 5mb. If you are there when they are, they will take your IP and report you.

johanz

tiocimarla wrote: »

Ye coz your gonna pop up on the radar if you have 5meg uploaded. I dont think so mate, really listen to yourself. They are in this for the top 50 period.

Actually you might even if you haven't uploaded any amount at all.

Peanut

johanz wrote: »

Actually you might even if you haven't uploaded any amount at all.

That's an interesting question, in legal cases in other countries, they needed to show that the accused was distributing, i.e. uploading, however since this is a semi-private arrangement between Eircom and IRMA, that may or may not be the case here.

I would hazard a guess though that it's easier for dtecnet etc. to operate if they only look for received data from torrent clients.

johanz

So wait, you get busted only for sharing?
If yes, hahaha, there's so many alternative sources.

bleg

Coming soon: HSE three strike rule.

johanz

bleg wrote: »

Coming soon: HSE three strike rule.

In theaters near you

Jev/N

bleg wrote: »

Coming soon: HSE three strike rule.

I'd say it'll be the first stroke strike and you're out :pac:

blubloblu

Irish Times Letters - Eircom and illegal downloads

Madam, – It would seem Ireland is leading the way worldwide in handing control of our internet services over to the four major record labels (Front Page, May 24th). They have proposed draconian measures which have been voted against, judged unconstitutional, and met with ferocious opposition in other countries. They want Eircom to cut off your internet if they think you are illegally downloading music.
Allow me to propose my own three strikes against this policy:
1. The major record companies are taking this course of action to stop the unauthorised sharing of their music. They are entitled to protect their rights, and they should be able to take whatever legitimate action they wish. However...

Some plank replied today:

Madam, – Charles Julienne Jnr (May 28th), exhorts Eircom internet users to move their internet custom to another provider, because, he says the other providers uphold their customers’ rights.

In my home, I control who has access to the internet, using the available security mechanisms, and I expressly forbid illegal downloads, using my position of “he who pays the internet bill”. I do this because to me such downloads are no different to walking into a record store and stealing a CD or DVD. If I buy 10,000 CDs and steal just one, it’s still stealing.

I am an Eircom customer. I will not be receiving any warnings from Eircom, nor am I at risk of disconnection. There is no need for me to move my custom. So who is Mr Julienne really worried about? The music industry, including writers and performers? Unlikely, as he refuses to back a measure that would protect them.

Society at large? I suggest society at large is quite well protected, and Mr Julienne’s outrage is just another storm in a teacup.

– Yours, etc,

ANDREW CALLAGHAN, Whitethorn Grove, Artane, Dublin 5.

I've emailed in a response to the letters page, let's hope it gets up...

altairscreed

Eircom suck's so much ass it's unreal:mad:

johanz

altairscreed wrote: »

Eircom suck's so much ass it's unreal:mad:

Oh it's real, very real.

Unreal will be when instead of only 50 IPs and only music they will take as much ips as they can and warn for any download.
AND throttle your internet.
Now then it will be unreal.

blubloblu

Reporters Without Borders aren't impressed

Reporters Without Borders is disturbed to learn that Eircom, one of Ireland’s main Internet Service Providers, has become the first ISP in Europe to voluntarily introduce a “graduated response” procedure under which clients who download music illegally could end up losing their Internet connection.
Announced on 24 May, the decision was motivated by business concerns and lacks any legal legitimacy. It is the result of an agreement between Eircom and the Irish Recorded Music Association (IRMA), which represents 55 music industry companies including Sony, Universal, EMI and Warner.
“The current tendency is to put Internet Service Providers at the centre of efforts to combat illegal downloading,” Reporters Without Borders said. “This is also the case with the ACTA, the proposed international treaty against counterfeiting that is currently being discussed. The disastrous effect of these initiatives is to turn the ISP into an Internet policeman.”
The press freedom organisation added: “It is the ISP that, flouting the right of defence and presumption of innocence, arbitrarily decides to interrupt Internet access, which is a fundamental right. Eircom reluctantly agreed to this pilot project in order to avoid legal sanctions under a lawsuit brought by Irish copyright holders that accused it of failing to take any steps to combat illegal downloading. ”
…

Sheeps

I wonder if Eircom will reverse their new policy if UPC fight the IRMA lawsuit and win.

johanz

Sheeps wrote: »

I wonder if Eircom will reverse their new policy if UPC fight the IRMA lawsuit and win.

I don't think so. They are most likely in contract with IRMA.

Peanut

Thinking about this further, I've come to the conclusion that IRMA are mostly just blowing smoke up our a**, yet again.

Surely they realise that people will just turn to web based download sites instead? So why bother with all this torrent stuff?

But, they have to be seen to be doing something, and the threat of a sanction is enough even if they have little intention of following through.

The fact that this new agreement doesn't apply to business users speak volumes. They know there's fat chance that businesses will have time for these silly games, and the chances of false positives are high enough to make the entire thing stand on very shaky ground.

So it's a lot more cost effective to just threaten home users instead.
IRMA will be in the good books for a while with their masters without having actually done anything much, until people realise the system is a sham and continue to either ignore it or download off alternative sources.

biko

The way to go is what Swedish ISP Bahnhof are doing. They don't even log IP numbers any more. You're totally anonymous with them.

johanz

biko wrote: »

The way to go is what Swedish ISP Bahnhof are doing. They don't even log IP numbers any more. You're totally anonymous with them.

Too bad most companies are fighting to make internet less anonymous.

Jev/N

biko wrote: »

The way to go is what Swedish ISP Bahnhof are doing. They don't even log IP numbers any more. You're totally anonymous with them.

Isn't that one thing you could you done for regarding secondary infringement of copyright, facilitation of copyright due to anonymity?

What happens with Child P*rn with them then, it can't be completely anonymous??

johanz

Jev/N wrote: »

Isn't that one thing you could you done for regarding secondary infringement of copyright, facilitation of copyright due to anonymity?

What happens with Child P*rn with them then, it can't be completely anonymous??

Actually yes it can. Your IP is still exposed, it's just not logged by your ISP

Jev/N

johanz wrote: »

Actually yes it can. Your IP is still exposed, it's just not logged by your ISP

Yep but if you have a dynamic IP, how do they know who it is?

yoyo

Jev/N wrote: »

Yep but if you have a dynamic IP, how do they know who it is?

Eircom or any ISP for that matter know who has a particular IP on that time & date, doesnt matter if dynamic or fixed, its still traceable

Nick

johanz

Jev/N wrote: »

Yep but if you have a dynamic IP, how do they know who it is?

Then there is no way. It's not like that's bad or anything.

yoyo wrote: »

Eircom or any ISP for that matter know who has a particular IP on that time & date, doesnt matter if dynamic or fixed, its still traceable

Nick

That's because most isps log ips.

jefreywithonef

Decent article about this in the Sunday Times. Mentions this thread too.

Peanut

Thanks for that, here's the link -

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/article7140356.ece

Some choice lines in there.

Dick Doyle, director general of Irma, is not worried about people who develop ways to avoid being caught, however.
...
"It’s not about the ‘nerds’, as we would call them. They are probably not customers or never would be anyway.”

:rolleyes:
Not the nerds I know, myself included.

Doyle says the scale of the problem is huge.
He wants Eircom eventually to deal with 10,000 offending IP addresses a week.

I doubt they have any intention of doing this. The number of false positives generated would surely provoke too much backlash.

Actually let's see what would happen if they consistently dealt with 10,000 offending IPs a week,
- That's 520,000 warnings a year, on a broadband customer base of, eh, 500,000. Hmmm. Pull the other one...

Jev/N

johanz wrote: »

Then there is no way. It's not like that's bad or anything.

Eh yeah there is, they could be held secondarily liable for not doing something as necessary as keeping logs

celtic723

They're only monitoring torrent downloading and the sharing that's involved right?

Does this mean that rapidshare, megaupload etc... are treated differently?

blubloblu

celtic723 wrote: »

They're only monitoring torrent downloading and the sharing that's involved right?

Does this mean that rapidshare, megaupload etc... are treated differently?

Direct download sites aren't affected by this. They would either have to monitor your connection, which is NOT happening here, or get the likes of Rapidshare to hand over their records.

celtic723

blubloblu wrote: »

Direct download sites aren't affected by this. They would either have to monitor your connection, which is NOT happening here, or get the likes of Rapidshare to hand over their records.

Thanks

kmurr04

Here is a list of websites that eircoms deems is legal to download from,

http://www.eircom.net/notification/legalmusic/legitsites

franklyshocked

kmurr04 wrote: »

Here is a list of websites that eircoms deems is legal to download from,

http://www.eircom.net/notification/legalmusic/legitsites

Shower of motherf@ckers. Thats a tiny list. No Beatport, Junodownload, DJdownload, what about international sites. Total balls lads. So glad I'm not with Eircom

blubloblu

franklyshocked wrote: »

Shower of motherf@ckers. Thats a tiny list. No Beatport, Junodownload, DJdownload, what about international sites. Total balls lads. So glad I'm not with Eircom

It's not exhaustive :P

kmurr04

At least youtube is on it think i would crack up otherwise!

Firefox11

Good god! So eircom are telling IT'S CUSTOMERS what they can and cannot look and listen to on the internet!!:eek: It beggars belief!!

Mark200

franklyshocked wrote: »

Shower of motherf@ckers. Thats a tiny list. No Beatport, Junodownload, DJdownload, what about international sites. Total balls lads. So glad I'm not with Eircom

As it says:

"The following is a list of recommended legitimate music sites"

Firefox11 wrote: »

Good god! So eircom are telling IT'S CUSTOMERS what they can and cannot look and listen to on the internet!!:eek: It beggars belief!!

No, they're not.


I had forgotten about this thread, but I got a nice warm feeling when I saw it again and realised that the amount of misinformation in it hasn't faded.

Amhran Nua

Peanut wrote: »

Thanks for that, here's the link -

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/article7140356.ece

Some choice lines in there.

Eh in the news again, great stuff. Here are ten reasons why this criminal move from Eircom won't help the recording industry.

Mark200 wrote: »

I had forgotten about this thread, but I got a nice warm feeling when I saw it again and realised that the amount of misinformation in it hasn't faded.

Due in no small part to your own workmanlike, and happily failed, efforts to muddy the waters.

In case you needed any more reasons to drop Eircom, they've jacked up their connection prices.

EIRCOM CUSTOMERS will see their phone bills rise by an average of 3 per cent from July when a new pricing structure is implemented.

In a move sharply criticised by lobby groups yesterday, Eircom announced that from July 1st calls that exceed the terms of a customers phone package or bundle will be rounded up to the next minute.

Currently “out of bundle” call time is billed on a per-second basis.
“The industry is moving in that direction . . . in terms of charging,” a spokesman for the telecommunications provider said.

On average, bills will rise by about 3 per cent as a result of the change.
The National Consumer Agency said that it was disappointing to see Eircom moving away from per second pricing and back to the “old style” per minute pricing “where the customer is paying for time on the phone that they’re not using”.

Dermott Jewell, chief executive of the Consumer Association, said the price hike was poorly thought-out and represented a backwards step.
“I’m amazed that they would even have considered an increase at this time,” he said.

“This is going to bring a lot of money into the coffers, not of the consumer, but of the provider,” he said.

“For many years the goal was to get to a point where we were progressive and charging per second as it made good, logical sense,” he said.

Eircom may have “shot themselves in the foot” with this price increase, Mr Jewell predicted, as it could trigger consumers to switch to another provider.

mooneyd

I know its is an old thread but does this effect file sharing and torrent downloads such as downloading Software.

Iv been looking this up and I can only see details regarding music sharing not video or software

Gator

Idiots...yet another reason to stay well away.....

yoyo

mooneyd wrote: »

I know its is an old thread but does this effect file sharing and torrent downloads such as downloading Software.

Iv been looking this up and I can only see details regarding music sharing not video or software

Music only, as thats all the IRMA are interested in,

Nick