Eircom enacts three strikes rule

McGarnagle92

any one see the logo on PirateBays website?
what's with that?

Edit: whoops just saw it was mentioned already

jimi_t2

Mark200 wrote: »

But either way, I can't get over your shocking inability to understand what role the EU Parliament has played, or to understand the significant difference between law and company policy.

Well how about you try and rectify it without being an ass about it? We're all in the same boat here.

I seem to have this ''shocking inability'', judging from the court hearing I surmised that the court was holding the company responsible under law, as opposed to their own policy

"It is completely within the legitimate standing of Eircom to act, and to be seen to act, as a body which upholds the law and Constitution. That is what the Court expects of both individuals and companies." Mr Justice Peter Charleton

I've very little legal knowledge, but considering it went to court this seems a tad like a ruling?

robbie_998

McGarnagle92 wrote: »

any one see the logo on PirateBays website?
what's with that?

Edit: whoops just saw it was mentioned already

i only see the normal logo.... care to take a screenie ?

jimi_t2

Colpriz wrote: »

Bono must be payrolling Eircom!

Nah, the less bandwith they give to customers pirating = more bandwith for ''legitimate'' use

Obviously its about their profits, but they feel safer on the high moral ground.

The repercussions of the ruling and the precedent it sets however... God help them, they'll vow the day they ever bought out a public company when the Irish population has its say.

Maybe now we'll see some WiMAX darknet in the Dublin area :P

Mark200

jimi_t2 wrote: »

Well how about you try and rectify it without being an ass about it? We're all in the same boat here.

I seem to have this ''shocking inability'', judging from the court hearing I surmised that the court was holding the company responsible under law, as opposed to their own policy



I've very little legal knowledge, but considering it went to court this seems a tad like a ruling?

Posters, including me, have spent the majority of this topic trying to "rectify it".

As said many times, businesses have the right to refuse service to whoever they want so long as they do not breach discrimination laws. The problem that the EU had with France was that France made the three-strikes system LAW, instead of it being the policy of a company. If Ireland were to make it law, then they would of course have to prove that suspects had indeed been downloading illegally before the Government issued a blanket ban on their internet access. Companies are not obliged to do that, as they are allowed to refuse service to anyone.

thomond2006

Failcom. :mad:

McGarnagle92

robbie_998 wrote: »

i only see the normal logo.... care to take a screenie ?

i thought everyone would see it?

jimi_t2

Mark200 wrote: »

Posters, including me, have spent the majority of this topic trying to "rectify it".

As said many times, businesses have the right to refuse service to whoever they want so long as they do not breach discrimination laws. The problem that the EU had with France was that France made the three-strikes system LAW, instead of it being the policy of a company. If Ireland were to make it law, then they would of course have to prove that suspects had indeed been downloading illegally before the Government issued a blanket ban on their internet access. Companies are not obliged to do that, as they are allowed to refuse service to anyone.

Fair enough, I'll admit after reading about 40 threads about it today I glossed a bit over the discourse.

Whats the current understanding of IP addresses, be they static or dynamic, under EU law? I had some notion that they constituted privileged information in the hands of anyone outside of the ISP

Also, is Eircom not the single wired provider for broadband in this country which acts as a reseller to everyone else? Is there not some sort of monopoly law that kicks in?

OT : As for EU law vs. Irish law, are we not already being reprimanded for setting a minimum price on cigarettes and for imposing various illegal taxes contrary to the EU market place (e.g. VRT)?

robbie_998

McGarnagle92 wrote: »

i thought everyone would see it?

i just saw the regular logo.

cheers for that though

gsxr1

time to build those ratios before UPC have to follow. I have a TB to spare:D

Klingon Hamlet

Arrrghcom.

Eircontempt.

Mark200

jimi_t2 wrote: »

Fair enough, I'll admit after reading about 40 threads about it today I glossed a bit over the discourse.

Whats the current understanding of IP addresses, be they static or dynamic, under EU law? I had some notion that they constituted privileged information in the hands of anyone outside of the ISP

Also, is Eircom not the single wired provider for broadband in this country which acts as a reseller to everyone else? Is there not some sort of monopoly law that kicks in?

I'd imagine that any three-strikes rule would only apply to those who are purchasing their broadband straight from Eircom. Otherwise I don't see why the music industry would try to get other ISPs in the country to take part too.

I believe the most recent court case involving Eircom and the Music Industry was to determine whether or not the IP addresses were private information, and the court ruled that they were not.

Colpriz

jimi_t2 wrote: »

Nah, the less bandwith they give to customers pirating = more bandwith for ''legitimate'' use

Obviously its about their profits, but they feel safer on the high moral ground.

The repercussions of the ruling and the precedent it sets however... God help them, they'll vow the day they ever bought out a public company when the Irish population has its say.

Maybe now we'll see some WiMAX darknet in the Dublin area :P

Bono's 1% stake into a very popular 'social networking' site will earn him big bucks come payday basically for sitting on his arse while the edge comes up with riffs & new hats!

jimi_t2

Mark200 wrote: »

I believe the most recent court case involving Eircom and the Music Industry was to determine whether or not the IP addresses were private information, and the court ruled that they were not.

Surely the EU stance on this is a little more...

I was about to say logical, but then again very little of this is.

Also, I thought ALL wired BB (non-cable) was resold through Eircom as they own the lines?

Mark200

jimi_t2 wrote: »

Surely the EU stance on this is a little more...

I was about to say logical, but then again very little of this is.

Also, I thought ALL wired BB (non-cable) was resold through Eircom as they own the lines?

Yeah but if I'm getting internet from UPC, then I'm not an Eircom customer. So Eircom can't cut me off. It doesn't matter where UPC get their internet from.

DazMarz

Do that dozy shower of fúckers Eircom not realise that if they cut people off, they will simply switch to another provider anyway??? For fúck sake...

Unless I'm missing something.

Between them now and the ESB... apart from FF, the greatest shower of crooks in the fúcking land.

jimi_t2

DazMarz wrote: »

Do that dozy shower of fúckers Eircom not realise that if they cut people off, they will simply switch to another provider anyway??? For fúck sake...

I'd say that, having sold the other companies the bandwith, they know well that

(a) They're making money hand over fist regardless of whose name is on the router
(b) The other ISPs dont' have the capacity to deal with so many people jumping ship. Eircom's ****ty service, contention ratio and speeds will look great in a couple weeks time by comparison

Scan Man

Eircom are a shower of c***s. I've been off them for 10 years and wouldn't go back to them if they were offering packages for free!

They constantly keep trying to trap you back into their network as well, with cold calls by third party salesmen and have even signed up people without there consent, causing tons of confusion and about 14 days to get back to your old provider, and they bill you for line rental and every call and usage made during the 14 days it takes.

The most uncompetitive monster in Ireland, apart from the ESB. They're like a bloody amoeba, engulfing all they can get. This is just another reason I'm glad I'm not with Eircom, and I hope they lose 1000s of customers because of this!

jimi_t2

Scan Man wrote: »

This is just another reason I'm glad I'm not with Eircom, and I hope they lose 1000s of customers because of this!

The timing of the NGB packages with their barefaced lying was not coincidental.

Any notions the hoi polloi have about getting indignant will be offset by eircom going ''Ah but look, with all these illegal users off our network we're giving you faster speeds! For free!''

Complete scumbags, but its the Irish government and the old boy system that allows them to do so.

gsxr1

jimi_t2 wrote: »

The timing of the NGB packages with their barefaced lying was not coincidental.

Any notions the hoi polloi have about getting indignant will be offset by eircom going ''Ah but look, with all these illegal users off our network we're giving you faster speeds! For free!''

Complete scumbags, but its the Irish government and the old boy system that allows them to do so.

wait for this to settle.

Eircom makes 50% of their internet staff redundant due to a major drop in sales.

Spokesman from eircom blames the current economic climate

Scan Man

Seemly according to this news article via Google, UPC is currently fighting the IRMA in court to prevent themselves from having to implement the exact same "three strikes policy".

http://www.dmwmedia.com/news/2010/05/24/irish-isp-eircom-debuts-quotthreestrikesquot-policy-filesharing

oceanclub

A **** company. I hope it's the last nail in the coffin of these useless pricks.

P.

congo_90

while i don't agree with the idea of eircom cutting people off it's clear they were cornered... be sued for copyright issues or lose what few customers they have. either way it was a loss.

I'd like to point out if you read the T&C's of the agreement you have with almost every provider from your electricity to broadband can all be cut off on the grounds of abuse. usually phrased in better words.

anachsnout

this three strikes deal has been bandied about the last few years. has anyone here on this forum ever heard of anyone even getting one strike? its just appease ment by eircom.. they are hardly gonna shoot themselves in the foot are they? i remember seeing lp covers in the eighties with a skull n crossbones on em declaring " taping is killing music" trying to order us to not buy blank cassettes. n music survived .

tiocimarla

If we let them do it to eircom then they will think we will take it lying down. I reckon if this becomes common place through all our isps we march the dail. I for one am sick of being shat on and told what i cant do by greedy big wigs. If this starts a trait then the next thread will read who is gonna march the dail with me. In fact we should do it anyway,,, Whos with me:D

jimi_t2

anachsnout wrote: »

this three strikes deal has been bandied about the last few years. has anyone here on this forum ever heard of anyone even getting one strike? its just appease ment by eircom.. they are hardly gonna shoot themselves in the foot are they?

Read the bloody thread like a good man.

ElaElaElano

Mark200 wrote: »

It appears that they will only be monitoring P2P networks, which is where users who have a file share with users who want the file. Torrents and things like Limewire use this type of connectivity. So yeah, the sites you mentioned where you download directly from a server should be ok. Mainly because only you and the person you are downloading from knows what you are downloading.

Excellent, thanks Mark.

Tar.Aldarion

Glad I got my family off these.

tiocimarla

bump
:D

Fuhrer

I switched over to Vodaphone a while back after eircoms DNS debacle.


Im a bit annoyed I cant ring them up and cancel my service in an overdramatical way about this new policy.

tiocimarla

For all those wonder what is safe and what is not. It does not matter what site you download from be it pirate bay or rapidshare. P2P or Hosted sharing. Bottom line is your web time is being monitored:eek::eek: WTF. It must be an infringment of your rights somewhere along the line. What is being monitored is the Use of bandwidth. If you are downloading or uploading for any constant amount of time then if you are being monitored then it is easy to call it suspect internet usage. This is all they need to strike 1 ye. :mad:.

Sure p2p is easier to monitor because your connecting to an aray of seeders incoming and outgoing but thats not what they are looking for. If you are using a lot of bandwidth then consider yourself under survellance but an ungovernern unlisenced body from an alien country in your own home. Wellcome to North Korea folks Kim Jong-il sends his love:(

Mark200

tiocimarla wrote: »

For all those wonder what is safe and what is not. It does not matter what site you download from be it pirate bay or rapidshare. P2P or Hosted sharing. Bottom line is your web time is being monitored:eek::eek: WTF. It must be an infringment of your rights somewhere along the line. What is being monitored is the Use of bandwidth. If you are downloading or uploading for any constant amount of time then if you are being monitored then it is easy to call it suspect internet usage. This is all they need to strike 1 ye. :mad:.

Sure p2p is easier to monitor because your connecting to an aray of seeders incoming and outgoing but thats not what they are looking for. If you are using a lot of bandwidth then consider yourself under survellance but an ungovernern unlisenced body from an alien country in your own home. Wellcome to North Korea folks Kim Jong-il sends his love:(

I don't believe that's true. The only information being given to the third party is your IP address. If I had a list of all Eircom IP addresses I could easily find out myself what Eircom customers are downloading illegally through P2P services. It's already possible to see what IP addresses are downloading what... the only difference is that this third party will know which of these IP addresses belong to Eircom.

gizmo

tiocimarla wrote: »

For all those wonder what is safe and what is not. It does not matter what site you download from be it pirate bay or rapidshare. P2P or Hosted sharing. Bottom line is your web time is being monitored:eek::eek: WTF. It must be an infringment of your rights somewhere along the line. What is being monitored is the Use of bandwidth. If you are downloading or uploading for any constant amount of time then if you are being monitored then it is easy to call it suspect internet usage. This is all they need to strike 1 ye. :mad:.

Sure p2p is easier to monitor because your connecting to an aray of seeders incoming and outgoing but thats not what they are looking for. If you are using a lot of bandwidth then consider yourself under survellance but an ungovernern unlisenced body from an alien country in your own home. Wellcome to North Korea folks Kim Jong-il sends his love:(

This is not true. In fact, it's utter rubbish.

While I completely disagree with what Eircom have been reduced to doing, the indignant rage of so many is amusing, especially when it's coupled with the "I'm moving to another providor so I can keep downloading my illegal material!!11eleventy" :rolleyes:

tiocimarla

If that is the case then they can still monitor you if you are using rapidshare, megaupload and other hosted sites. They will be given ips and its very easy to see bandwidth usage. What other reason would you be using 7megs plus for extended amounts of time. If im wrong i will stand corrected but i just dont think people are seeing the bigger picture here. If we let them regulate what we do now then where will it end!!

tbh

it's particularly ironic that the main thrust of this thread is people accusing eircom of doing something they haven't done - which is, accusing people of doing something they haven't done.

that's lost deep that is.

Mark200

tiocimarla wrote: »

If that is the case then they can still monitor you if you are using rapidshare, megaupload and other hosted sites. They will be given ips and its very easy to see bandwidth usage. What other reason would you be using 7megs plus for extended amounts of time. If im wrong i will stand corrected but i just dont think people are seeing the bigger picture here. If we let them regulate what we do now then where will it end!!

The point is that the third party doesn't need to see your internet usage. For example, if you're downloading a file through a bit-torrent program or programs such as Limewire (which use P2P file transfer), then you can see the IP address of every single person who is sharing the file with you.

tbh

tiocimarla wrote: »

If that is the case then they can still monitor you if you are using rapidshare, megaupload and other hosted sites. They will be given ips and its very easy to see bandwidth usage. What other reason would you be using 7megs plus for extended amounts of time. If im wrong i will stand corrected but i just dont think people are seeing the bigger picture here. If we let them regulate what we do now then where will it end!!

where do you think it will end, and why do you think eircom will want it to end there. out of curiosity, like.

ntlbell

tiocimarla wrote: »

If that is the case then they can still monitor you if you are using rapidshare, megaupload and other hosted sites. They will be given ips and its very easy to see bandwidth usage. What other reason would you be using 7megs plus for extended amounts of time. If im wrong i will stand corrected but i just dont think people are seeing the bigger picture here. If we let them regulate what we do now then where will it end!!

Two days solid now and people still can't grasp the basics of what's going on.

I know it's AH but really, try and focus.

Eircom couldn't really care less what you do. They have no interest in monitoring what you do, in fact, for them to do so would be an added cost to them that they don't want.

tiocimarla

Mark200 wrote: »

The point is that the third party doesn't need to see your internet usage. For example, if you're downloading a file through a bit-torrent program or programs such as Limewire (which use P2P file transfer), then you can see the IP address of every single person who is sharing the file with you.

There are programs that mask your Ip and set up a few dozen cloak ones all across the world but this is usless against what they plan to impose. I watch a program a week or two ago on this and they were saying that they can detect mass downloading from your ip.

gizmo

tiocimarla wrote: »

If that is the case then they can still monitor you if you are using rapidshare, megaupload and other hosted sites. They will be given ips and its very easy to see bandwidth usage. What other reason would you be using 7megs plus for extended amounts of time. If im wrong i will stand corrected but i just dont think people are seeing the bigger picture here. If we let them regulate what we do now then where will it end!!

Unfortunately this is still untrue and I suspect it's because you don't really know how the internet works.

Your bandwidth usage also has nothing to do with this, as others have pointed out, Dtecnet, the company Eircom are bringing in for this, will most likely monitor P2P illegal traffic in order to harvest the relevant IPs and pass them on to Eircom. At this point you'll get your first strike...

Mark200

tiocimarla wrote: »

There are programs that mask your Ip and set up a few dozen cloak ones all across the world but this is usless against what they plan to impose. I watch a program a week or two ago on this and they were saying that they can detect mass downloading from your ip.

There was a program about the Eircom three-strikes rule?

What was it called?

tiocimarla

ntlbell wrote: »

Two days solid now and people still can't grasp the basics of what's going on.

I know it's AH but really, try and focus.

Eircom couldn't really care less what you do. They have no interest in monitoring what you do, in fact, for them to do so would be an added cost to them that they don't want.

No no No. I am i full knowledge of what is happening read my posts from yesterday if ye like. I know eircom isnt the one monitoring. Its a third party:rolleyes: Iv said this already The point is if eircom fold Then then rest of the ISPs will Have to follow suit eventually. Im with UPC and im afraid this will spread

ntlbell

tiocimarla wrote: »

There are programs that mask your Ip and set up a few dozen cloak ones all across the world but this is usless against what they plan to impose. I watch a program a week or two ago on this and they were saying that they can detect mass downloading from your ip.

"mass" downloading is not an issue

Let me introduce the word share to you.

share....

let me introduce another one, "upload"

share...


UPLOAD...

ntlbell

tiocimarla wrote: »

No no No. I am i full knowledge of what is happening read my posts from yesterday if ye like. I know eircom isnt the one monitoring. Its a third party:rolleyes: Iv said this already The point is if eircom fold Then then rest of the ISPs will Have to follow suit eventually. Im with UPC and im afraid this will spread

It will spread, IMRA all ready stated another ISP will be joining in.

Why are you afraid?

Are you breaking the law?

tiocimarla

Mark200 wrote: »

There was a program about the Eircom three-strikes rule?

What was it called?

Im not to sure mate, It showed irish peoples downloading habits and explained some of the telecoms package. The it showed new Sites that are developing software to cloak ips safely

tbh

tiocimarla wrote: »

No no No. I am i full knowledge of what is happening read my posts from yesterday if ye like. I know eircom isnt the one monitoring. Its a third party:rolleyes: Iv said this already The point is if eircom fold Then then rest of the ISPs will Have to follow suit eventually. Im with UPC and im afraid this will spread

why are you afraid?

tiocimarla

ntlbell wrote: »

It will spread, IMRA all ready stated another ISP will be joining in.

Why are you afraid?

Are you breaking the law?

Yes i do realise when you download you have to upload, im not a leech mate. And yes I do download and Yes i Have a massive CD collection and a massive DVD collection from which i spent at least 1500euro on since i started it way back. See the thing is i will but what i like or what i think is good.

In your oppinion Is watching Utube videos piracy.

Fuhrer

ntlbell wrote: »

It will spread, IMRA all ready stated another ISP will be joining in.

Why are you afraid?

Are you breaking the law?

He doesnt have to be breaking the law to be afraid.

ntlbell

tiocimarla wrote: »

Yes i do realise when you download you have to upload, im not a leech mate. And yes I do download and Yes i Have a massive CD collection and a massive DVD collection from which i spent at least 1500euro on since i started it way back. See the thing is i will but what i like or what i think is good.

In your oppinion Is watching Utube videos piracy.

I don't think you have an idea of what I'm talking about, or what indeed yourself is talking about.

They will be monitoring "shares" people offering. Nothing to do with people who download. There is no requirement to upload on public torrents. Which is mostly what they will be monitoring.

My opinion or your opinion on watching youtube is really irrelvant.

People who share can be punished, this is ilegal, if you're not doing that, well, you have nothing to worry about regarding what has been announced, is it really so complicated to get your head around?

tbh

Fuhrer wrote: »

He doesnt have to be breaking the law to be afraid.

afraid of what? Jesus lads it's a fairly simple question.