Banned from Photography ... again, for no reason. Harrassing Moderators.

Thecageyone

The Mods are on my back again for no reason. I posted simple advice in this thread and not one, but 2 mods, jumped all over me for it, labelling me arrogant. there's nothing arrogant in my post to the thread started, I've re-read it over and over and see nothing malicious about it.

In the thread I told a member they should learn to use manual mode for the camera they're using - nothing wrong with that at all - A mod jumped all over my post [Caban Sail] and After I responded, explaining how I was not being anything of the sort, another Mod joined him [Cailin] telling me to 'cool it' and also labelled me arrogant!

I've complained about victimising before and nothing was done, in fact, I was banned for very little bar speaking up for myself after a mod continuously remarked on every post I made.

If this is not targetting, I don't know what is. There was posts in another thread only the other day complaining about the moderation in the photography forum. I stayed well away from it. None of those members were warned, called arogant or told to 'cool' it as if they were behaving like bold children. The Mod actually reasoned with them and explained. I know if I had said a word, i'd have been warned.

I'm being harrassed.

If you look through my posts on here you'll see I'm nothing but another normal member coming here for help advice and to give it where I can. There's nothing arrogant about telling someone they should use a good camera in it's best mode.

Can you please explain to me why this sparked reaction from 2 mods? And why they continue to keep it up.

I'm new to this section, and I've not been made to feel welcome by the Mods since. Other members have been fine. Bar the odd snide remark.

I was banned for sending a pm to another member in which I called him a 'tool'!? a PM - supposedly private, gets reported for something so simple and I get ousted?

At the same time a regular member openly called me a 'prick' on the forum. A mod 'sniped' it and no more was said. He wasn't warned, or told off, even after I reported the post.

Tell me how this is not favoritism and harassment.

Calina

Did you receive the explanatory note I sent you with the ban?

The one that pointed out that discussing moderation of a thread within that thread was against the photography forum charter?

LoLth

Can either of you provide a link to the thread/posts in question?

Abusing someone by private message is a lot more actionable than a jibe on a forum. if someone called you a prick, I would hope the post was edited or the user was warned and most likely was warned, privately or by mod warning when the post was edited.

Deliberately sending a PM to insult someone is worse imho and if the user was offended and reported the Pm then yes, you deserved punishment for it.

In any case, i would be happy to look into this for you but please provide some links to the threads and posts you find objectionable or that demonstrate favouritism or harrassment.

Similarly Calina, seeing as the user is taking offense to the moderators treatment, can you send on a copy of the mod warning you PMed to the user on the two bannings?

Thecageyone

LoLth wrote: »

Can either of you provide a link to the thread/posts in question?

Abusing someone by private message is a lot more actionable than a jibe on a forum. if someone called you a prick, I would hope the post was edited or the user was warned and most likely was warned, privately or by mod warning when the post was edited.

Deliberately sending a PM to insult someone is worse imho and if the user was offended and reported the Pm then yes, you deserved punishment for it.

In any case, i would be happy to look into this for you but please provide some links to the threads and posts you find objectionable or that demonstrate favouritism or harrassment.

Similarly Calina, seeing as the user is taking offense to the moderators treatment, can you send on a copy of the mod warning you PMed to the user on the two bannings?

I wasn't sent any waning, only a pm stating ertain rules after the ban.

Yes, i was wrong on that occasion to send a pm, I did think 'tool' was pretty mild , but after discussing it with an Admin in the 'prison' forum i agreed to apologise for it. i have done and that was laid to rest.

This time around I abused nobody, i gave some advice in a thread - the Mods deemed it to come across arrogant - I explained that was not the intention and even apologised to the OP if that was how they took it up. OP never said that was the case.

Cailin then made a thread and all but said my name and used words like unfair and arrogant again. I posted to say my post in the other thread was jumped on pretty harshly, that is how I felt. And I was banned.

Thecageyone

I got a little lost after posting in here and so posted up in feedback -

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055919879

I'm not sure where is best for it. But the feedback threa has gotten some feedback in itself.

I can't link to any threads in photography as I'm banned from there because of this.

I feel it's harsh, I had done what was asked of me last time and apologised for the pm I sent.

On that occasion, when I was called a prick openly, the member who said it was not warned or temp banned. I however was for calling someone a tool via pm. It doesn't seem fair at all. None of this was explained to me by any of the photography Mods. I had to go deal with it in the prison forum. I was pretty much ousted completely, though one Mod did pm to confirm the ban and explained a few things [An cath Dubh]

I still had to go off into the vitual wilderness for my actions, and I did all that was aksed of me.

I feel this is a continuation of that, any time i post anything that could even remotely be considered 'arrogant' I get told off. Cailin, other members complained you were being heavy handed only the other day - because you deleted and moved certain posts. You did not give them the same treatment. You actually explained yourself to them.

They were of course, more regular than I

LoLth

ok, I've had a read of the photography forum threads and the feedback thread.

a few points:

1. A mod asked you to cool it for a comment the mod perceived as out of order. The correct response to this is to PM the mod and ask what they see as wrong with the post, not to argue on thread and further derail it. Its not the most intuitive response but its the most effective and it keeps the forum moving without things getting heated

2. This isnt a standalone event. any previous occurrances are taken into account by the moderator when makign a decision. they have ot be, otherwise we will get some users who would use the existance of a line to disrupt things as much as possible without ever actually breaking a rule. I'm not sayign that this is you, or that all users would do this, but some would (and have) and they spoil the forum for the rest. Other users get caught up defending this or that and it all spirals from there resulting in a mod having to come down harder than if it were stopped earlier on and having more users feeling aggrieved.

3. If you did PM the mods, you should have waited for a response before starting a feedback thread and you should have created that thread in helpdesk, not feedback. easy mistake to make on the thread creation though, so thats neither here nor there. The point remains that you should have waited for a response from the mod or mods in question and if you didnt receive one (unlikely) or you didnt feel this could be resolved without help then you or the mods should have contacted the category mod (AnCatDubh, who you have already dealt with ) who would step in as arbitrator.

4. In this case, by the letter of the law, the moderator has behaved correctly. You received a ban before, this is the second ban so it gets an extended duration. The proper PM was sent at the time of banning (mods are not required to warn you beforehand, they can if they feel like it but they dont have to. for every user that would welcome such communication there is another that would see it as pointless and possibly just gloating or worse, bullying).

5. this seem like a case where you have gotten on the wrong sid eof a mod or mods and, instead of stepping back and looking at how they might perceive your posts, you're determined to defend them. for what its worth, as an outsider, I do believe that you did not mean to insult the OP in that thread, however, when I read the post first looking for signs of arrogance that post read to me as "RTFM n00b". When I read it again i could see that you were possibly just giving advice (and decent advice at that). Perhaps better wording could have been called for or an illustration or two of the benefits the OP could receive from learning manual settings using the posted pictures as reference? The OP asked for C&C on the pictures, not necessarily an offhand comment on their ability to use their camera technically. Not giving out to you about this, I'm just trying to impress upon you how your comment *could* have been misconstrued and how this + past posts/actions could lead the Mods to the conclusion that you were being arrogant.

I think perhaps you need to think about what it is you want to contribute to the photography forum and what you hope to get from it. Then, you need to re-read your posts and the posts prior and following and get a feel for the forum as a community (you can read the forum by logging out, you just wont be able to post there or interact). The ban isnt just for you to be barred from a forum, it also gives the moderators time to reset their opinion of a poster and allow their views to settle back to normal before havign to deal with the poster again, hopefully allowing them to make a decision that is from an unbiased perspective (while still taking past behaviour into account).

As for the user who called you a prick, that user was probably spoken to by PM. Not all admonishments are handled publicly.

I can understand how you feel wronged but , honestly, i have to say, you're not 100% blame free here.

Thecageyone

LoLth wrote: »

ok, I've had a read of the photography forum threads and the feedback thread.

a few points:

1. A mod asked you to cool it for a comment the mod perceived as out of order. The correct response to this is to PM the mod and ask what they see as wrong with the post, not to argue on thread and further derail it. Its not the most intuitive response but its the most effective and it keeps the forum moving without things getting heated

2. This isnt a standalone event. any previous occurrances are taken into account by the moderator when makign a decision. they have ot be, otherwise we will get some users who would use the existance of a line to disrupt things as much as possible without ever actually breaking a rule. I'm not sayign that this is you, or that all users would do this, but some would (and have) and they spoil the forum for the rest. Other users get caught up defending this or that and it all spirals from there resulting in a mod having to come down harder than if it were stopped earlier on and having more users feeling aggrieved.

3. If you did PM the mods, you should have waited for a response before starting a feedback thread and you should have created that thread in helpdesk, not feedback. easy mistake to make on the thread creation though, so thats neither here nor there. The point remains that you should have waited for a response from the mod or mods in question and if you didnt receive one (unlikely) or you didnt feel this could be resolved without help then you or the mods should have contacted the category mod (AnCatDubh, who you have already dealt with ) who would step in as arbitrator.

4. In this case, by the letter of the law, the moderator has behaved correctly. You received a ban before, this is the second ban so it gets an extended duration. The proper PM was sent at the time of banning (mods are not required to warn you beforehand, they can if they feel like it but they dont have to. for every user that would welcome such communication there is another that would see it as pointless and possibly just gloating or worse, bullying).

5. this seem like a case where you have gotten on the wrong sid eof a mod or mods and, instead of stepping back and looking at how they might perceive your posts, you're determined to defend them. for what its worth, as an outsider, I do believe that you did not mean to insult the OP in that thread, however, when I read the post first looking for signs of arrogance that post read to me as "RTFM n00b". When I read it again i could see that you were possibly just giving advice (and decent advice at that). Perhaps better wording could have been called for or an illustration or two of the benefits the OP could receive from learning manual settings using the posted pictures as reference? The OP asked for C&C on the pictures, not necessarily an offhand comment on their ability to use their camera technically. Not giving out to you about this, I'm just trying to impress upon you how your comment *could* have been misconstrued and how this + past posts/actions could lead the Mods to the conclusion that you were being arrogant.

I think perhaps you need to think about what it is you want to contribute to the photography forum and what you hope to get from it. Then, you need to re-read your posts and the posts prior and following and get a feel for the forum as a community (you can read the forum by logging out, you just wont be able to post there or interact). The ban isnt just for you to be barred from a forum, it also gives the moderators time to reset their opinion of a poster and allow their views to settle back to normal before havign to deal with the poster again, hopefully allowing them to make a decision that is from an unbiased perspective (while still taking past behaviour into account).

As for the user who called you a prick, that user was probably spoken to by PM. Not all admonishments are handled publicly.

I can understand how you feel wronged but , honestly, i have to say, you're not 100% blame free here.

Not 100%, that means I'm not 100% wrong either so? I think the ban is harsh. the previous ban was also harsh and I sorted it with a board Admin. Since then any posts even remotely 'arrogant' I've made has been attacked, pretty much. I was expressing opinion, even after explaining myself.

Look through my posts, I mean, really, over the past few months. I think you'll find i was mor of a help than hinderence.

Besides this, i pointed out that Cailin had a run in with other members only this wek on another matter. A couple of them slated her moderating, none of them received any warning. In fact, she offered them explanaitions and there was no "Cool it" blasts in their direction.

I was called a prick and I reported it to the mods. The user who called me it openly was still posting next day, and I was banned for calling someone a much lighter 'tool' ia pm, which I deemed to be private.

LoLth

Ok,

was the ban harsh: in my opinion, yes.
was the ban wrong: in my opinion, no.
was the ban so harsh as to considered over the top: no

you were asked to "cool it" and you argued on thread instead of clarifying privately. You made the decision to have it out in public, well ,thats the result. Sort it out by PM with the mod or the cmod, dont derail a thread just so you can have your say for the peanut gallery.

Private messages are private. that doesnt mean you can insult people secretly. if they take offences and report it, the admins get a copy of the message and act on it as necessary. Abuse by PM is decided upon by the admins, abuse on a thread is decided upon by the moderator. This was two different sets of authority deciding on two different instances of abuse. Stop comparing them and stop attempting to use them to make your response to a mod warning acceptable.

Mod warned.
You argued on thread.

thats the issue. nothing else.

I would suggest that you sit back and think about this before answering because your blind insistance that you are right despite multiple parties supporting the ruling (the mods, the admins, havent heard from the cmod yet but I'm sure we will) really isnt painting you in a very approachable light. Am I wasting my time trying to mediate here? Will you not accept any ruling other than you being 100% correct? you're not completely right here so you wont get that decision. Now its up to you to decide if you can accept that and discuss this like a reasonable person or if you are going to dig in your heels and insist on raising the same point again and again as your defense.

On a side note: I would think that users not being punished by a mod for slating his or her moddign ability shows a lot more good than it does bad in the mods ability to make a clear and unbiased judgement. Again, not a good point to raise when you are trying to argue the opposite.

Thecageyone

is there any point in pleading a cas ein here against a Mod? Serious question.

They don't paint me in a good light, I would love to see all evidence of this please. I'm not painting them in a good light either here, but I'm saying it where I reckon I should. Are all other discussions regarding this private? I have a right to know what they say about me, as I believe they haven't much ...

What a way to twist it. I point out how a Mod treat different members very differently, and this goes against ... me? Different rules for different folk it appears.

I wasn't warned about anything, I made a post in a NEW thread which was made by the Mod - it wasn't locked so I presumed it was open to posting opinion, isn't that what forums are for? Not to be nagged every time you speak your mind.

Why not have a rule that even when a Mod is wrong, you have no hope other than to shut it and do as told?

Thecageyone

LoLth wrote: »

Ok,

was the ban harsh: in my opinion, yes.
was the ban wrong: in my opinion, no.
was the ban so harsh as to considered over the top: no

you were asked to "cool it" and you argued on thread instead of clarifying privately. You made the decision to have it out in public, well ,thats the result. Sort it out by PM with the mod or the cmod, dont derail a thread just so you can have your say for the peanut gallery.

Private messages are private. that doesnt mean you can insult people secretly. if they take offences and report it, the admins get a copy of the message and act on it as necessary. Abuse by PM is decided upon by the admins, abuse on a thread is decided upon by the moderator. This was two different sets of authority deciding on two different instances of abuse. Stop comparing them and stop attempting to use them to make your response to a mod warning acceptable.

Mod warned.
You argued on thread.

thats the issue. nothing else.

I would suggest that you sit back and think about this before answering because your blind insistance that you are right despite multiple parties supporting the ruling (the mods, the admins, havent heard from the cmod yet but I'm sure we will) really isnt painting you in a very approachable light. Am I wasting my time trying to mediate here? Will you not accept any ruling other than you being 100% correct? you're not completely right here so you wont get that decision. Now its up to you to decide if you can accept that and discuss this like a reasonable person or if you are going to dig in your heels and insist on raising the same point again and again as your defense.

On a side note: I would think that users not being punished by a mod for slating his or her moddign ability shows a lot more good than it does bad in the mods ability to make a clear and unbiased judgement. Again, not a good point to raise when you are trying to argue the opposite.

Also, the private message saga has NOTHING to do with this, as that was completely resolved, I was told ...

Why is that a big issue here?


What happened today was - I explained my 'arrogant' post, and said, truthfully, that the Mod who jumped on my comment was over the top , seemed like they were only waiting for a chance to have a go at me - That IS harassment.

After this another Mod came in attacking my posts too, as if to back up the first one, even after I explained I was NOT being arrogant. They only read what they want to read, in this case that is blatant fact.

Cailin came in to stir and throw weight about, she was just dying for a response. I didn't know that was part of a Mod's job?

You must makes rules stating 'no freedom of speech whatsoever" in here if this stands. As it is ridiculous. And I should have known it wa a waste of time pointing out bad moderation.

One thing you've said up there just shows how much of a joke this is -

"

LoLth wrote: »

Ok,

was the ban harsh: in my opinion, yes.

CabanSail

I would like to add a few comments here.

Firstly, the person who used the "Prick" insult was addressed by PM, they apologised for their behaviour. Normally I would have asked them to make an apology to the person they had insulted on the forum too, but they had received an abusive PM which was quite beyond the insult in thread and was quite personal in nature. I advised them that they have the right to report any abuse by PM but those reports go straight to Admin. I assume that was done as a Siteban was issued. At the time this happened we were, as a Mod Team, discussing how we can address the type of posts that TheCageyOne was making & his attitude in the forum.

In the recent incident I found that the reply to a very new user was unhelpful & not friendly. It is very hard to ask for C&C when just starting out & we should be supportive of new users. My reply was as a general user & not as a Mod. I normally make it quite clear when I have the Mod Hat on, so there can be no mistake that what is given is a Moderation Instruction. In this case I did not do so. Rather than escalate things I reported the post & asked the others to review the thread, treating me as any other poster. I believe that Calina did so & then made comments in the thread.

I support the Ban which Calina has issued is fair & justified taking into account the history with this user & earlier warnings issued.

LoLth

Thanks Cabansail for the input.

@thecageyone:

I am trying to discuss this with you. I am not backing up the mods or blindly taking anyone's side. So far you have selectively picked parts of my posts to "prove" yourself in the right and proven recalcitrant and reluctant to actually discuss the issue here without firing an accusation at every opportunity. Now seemingly, I'm guilty of being biased.

The Private message was brought up by you. I agree that it is resolved but, past incidents are taken into account when determining if a user is intentionally trying to disrupt a thread or if its an honest mistake. Lets leave the PM out of it. I'm satisfied that has been dealt with.

As for you beign called a prick, Cabansail has cleared that up as well. So lets leave that out of it.

Cabansail posted as a user of the forum, perhaps this could have been made clearer. He reported the post to take a step back and allow another moderator to make a decision. So lets leave that out of it for now as well.

we are left with:

You believe you are being harrassed by the mods. I'll go through the forum and see if there is anything to support this claim. If there is, I will deal with the moderators involved.

You believe you should not be banned. the reason for the ban was arguing with a mod on thread. Not the post that was perceived to be arrogant. You did argue with the mod on thread and you did discuss a mod decision on thread despite there beign a clear post in the charter detailing that this exact behaviour is not acceptable and telling users what to do if they wish to argue a mod decision.

==> the ban was right. I wont argue against that and I wont ask a mod to apologise or retract that decision.

the duration of the ban: 2 weeks. justified because it was a second ban. In my opinion, too long because of the nature of the offense. That we can talk about.

So, do you wish to continue this as a conversation or would you prefer to serve the rest of the ban and feel justified in the opinion that you are being persecuted , not only by the moderators but also by an admin who has never spoken to you before? because, from what you've posted, it seems that I have never mediated a reduction of a ban with a moderator before or even a reversal of an infraction. I would appreciate it though, if you dont just take a single line, taken out of context and try to wave that as some sort of proof of wrongdoing or conspiracy.

AnCatDubh

If I may add the Cmod experience to date;

The context around this is well covered so I won't rehash that ground other to say that as reported above is as how I've found such interactions with thecageyone.

What I will say as an Arts Category Moderator is that on previous banning(s) from the forum, I have had multiple pm'd discussions with thecageyone where I have spent considerable personal effort in attempting to point out where he appears to be going wrong in his posting style on the forum. I have requested multiple times that he would read and understand the charter including the associated manners thread, and appropriate addendum. All I have ever gotten from this is how he has been victimised and harassed by the moderators of the photography forum. This statement I have never found to be true and I have investigated all such claims with an independent eye - even suggesting that he get a second opinion from Will, the other Arts Category Moderator.

I have explained in length that given his record including the personal abuse in the pm (accepted - not being discussed here) and associated history, that it is unfortunate but he was heading in the direction of being perma-banned from the forum. The moderators aren't and don't make the circumstances whereby perma-bans are issued. A users behaviour is the principal determinant. I have asked him that he would consider this.

I have asked that he would take note of the way the forum works and the posting styles of the individuals in terms of becoming a useful poster on the forum.

I have advised that the forum does not revolve around him but around the community so his "I am what I am" stance which had regularly been trotted out, doesn't actually wash or hold any relevance.

There appears to be no latitude given by him to anyone who has an alternate opinion than him, even if there would appear to be a volley of support for the alternate opinion. Look - you need look no further than the lack of understanding and respect being demonstrated in the responses above; this attitude being the regular contribution when challenged about anything.

In my opinion, thecageyone's attitude needs to change and change rapidly or there will be no place for him on the boards photography forum in the future. It is not fair on the general members of the photography forum to have any member of the forum think that they can post in flagrant disregard of the established norms and accepted protocols, and stick two fingers up constantly in the face of the forum's charter simply because "he is what he is" and while "he may often be misunderstood", "that's the way he is". This is not acceptable.

Thecageyone

To the 3 category Mods - Seriously, please sift through my posts, scrutinize each and every one, and come back with every instance of what you perceive to be arrogant or abusive, or warrants a ban ... because not just overly defending myself, but I do not believe I have acted the way you present me in general in there. I started visiting there for help, and to speak to like minded people. i get in trouble one time and ever since it really has felt like I'm being singled out.

I spoke in person to some members of photography forum, I'd never met them before - I met them at a camera club - Boards was brought up and I told them about my last ban - They felt it was a bit ridiculous. I'm only saying this because 3 of you seem to have a desire to paint me in some horrible light here - the people who've actually met me from that forum wouldn't agree, I don't think.


The member who called me a prick initiated the argument, I retaliated a little strongly perhaps. But I only sent him a pm after that. He was already being backed up by his mates [it seemed] and me taking it to pm was taking it off the public boards, or so i believed.

Caban Sail - I've stressed numerous times that not only did I NOT mean to be arrogant in any way, shape or form, when posting my reply to the new member, but I apologised, in case he/she took it up in that manner. You were too quick to stomp all over my post [IMO], a simple "Were you trying to be arrogant there?" would have sufficed. Felt to me like you were only dying for me to say something out of line so you could attack.

An Cath Dubh - where have I EVER suggested the forum revolves around me? Please back up your attacks on my person with actual proof that I behave this way, otherwise it's just as I suggest - 3 mods who had an oul' chat off the forum, picking on a relatively new member, all because he speaks his mind.

I'd love to see all my horrifically arrogant posts all in one place, show me how horrible I am - I'll admit i am if you can do this. I bet you'll find I've been no worse then the average regular. I've seen some be far more blunt/direct/arrogant/unhelpful than I, with no scolding.

Also ACD, this thing about it being "unfair"?? it's unfair to me - as a new[ish] member, to be jumped on at every turn, all because I'm honest - genuinely. Just as I say above, I've seen far worse go un-modded or warned off.

Take the time to go through all my posts in the category, please. And show us my worst. This is all very strange btw, coming from someone who added me as a contact on Pix.ie - at least you like my photos eh


LOLth, the thing about me being called a prick, leave it at that? fine - it just keeps coming up about my past ban. that is relevant to it. I retaliated at the time to aggressiveness towards me.

To your questions, I wish for this to be looked into in more detail. It seems/feels to me that the 3 Mods had their own discussion and came here to back one another up. if they really, genuinely looked through my posts, and put aside the fact I semi-challenged a Mod, maybe 3 times, ever ... they'd admit i was just your average poster, sometimes helpful, definitely interested in the subject, and maybe just a little blunt for his own good but that can be toned down. They seem to want me ousted for very, very little. You say yourself 2 weeks is too long, I agree. A week I could have settled for. I feel bullied and it's not fair.

CabanSail

Thecageyone wrote: »

Caban Sail - I've stressed numerous times that not only did I NOT mean to be arrogant in any way, shape or form, when posting my reply to the new member, but I apologised, in case he/she took it up in that manner. You were too quick to stomp all over my post [IMO], a simple "Were you trying to be arrogant there?" would have sufficed. Felt to me like you were only dying for me to say something out of line so you could attack.

Firstly, let me say that I am NOT going to go through your whole post history to gather posts as you have requested. This is because the matter has already been reviewed by all the levels at Boards. It is also due to the fact that I do not have the time to do so.

I will use the last instance, which has lead to you being issued this current ban to try to illustrate why you seem to out of step with the community and how this brings the negative attention of various moderators.

With a request for C&C on four images from a very new member the first post in reply was yours.

Thecageyone wrote: »

A Canon 50D ... and you have it in Auto/semi auto modes?


You should look up some tutorials on manual mode, get the best from a good camera.

There is NOTHING there about the images at all. It was not what was requested at all.

My reply was (bold added for emphasis)

CabanSail wrote: »

The idea of C&C is to comment on the photographs, not a discussion on the gear used. What you have offered above sounds quite arrogant and is not the help that OP requested.

If you will note I was very careful with my language and did not accuse you of anything. I was commenting on how your post could appear to the OP as well as pointing out it was not the information sought.

Rather than leave the matter there, you then escalated it. Once again Bold added to highlight.

Thecageyone wrote: »

Eh, I beg to differ, as I wasn't being arrogant at all. Seriously, someone buys a 50D, the best thing they could do is get the best from it - it's pretty easy learn the basics of manual. That is simply good advice. You jumped in a bit quick there without really thinking on my reply me thinks. Sorry OP if you think I was being arrogant, though you don't seem to have responded as if that was the case. I went to the bother of checking the pic's exif data. if i was just going to be arrogant I'd say worse. There's nothing wrong with the images at all, IMHO - apart from #4 seems over exposed ...

There's a problem around here with basic honest opinion, please read posts properly before diving in on a major offensive. There's nothing arrogant in my post whatsoever.

The post above I had issues with. It was Off Topic for a start. The tone was still quite patronising to the OP and you seem to imply that my brief comment above was somehow a "major offensive" against you. This style of posting is what has brought you to the attention of the Moderators as it has been reported by quite a few other regulars on the forum. As a Mod, at this stage I could have acted in quite a few ways. I could simply have deleted your post as being off topic, I could have given you an infraction for that as well. It could even have been perceived that you were arguing with a Mod on thread & applied a ban. I did not do any of those things as I knew my post was not as a Moderator, but as a normal user on the forum. So I did what I would advise anyone else to do & reported your post. I asked the others to review the matter as if I were not a Mod & without prejudice, as I was too close to the matter & did not want it to appear I was abusing the power I have been granted here. It was Calina who stepped up & looked into it and issued a warning in thread.

Calina wrote: »

Please cool it and consider for one minute how your posts are coming across. Whether you intend them as arrogant or not is of no importance to how they come across.

Your response to the OP was not constructive. If you have to explain your post subsequently don't you think it would help the OP - who is clearly a beginner - to elucidate what possible settings would be of interest to them in the photograph in question?

Please drop the attitude. It really is not endearing you to the wider community at all.

__________________________________

@community in general - please do not bring arguments from other threads into C&C or support threads; it is shockingly unfair on the OP and on the mods and on the rest of the community as a whole.

If you note there are two warnings there, one specific to you and another for the forum as a whole to not get involved with on thread arguments like this.

You chose to ignore both warnings and continue to openly defy the decision. This is what earned you the ban. If it were a first offence I personally may have given you a shorter ban than 2 weeks, but as it's not and if I were applying it I think that 2 weeks is what I would have issued as well. As I said before I stepped back from the matter in the interest of the forum.

It is true that you have come up for discussion between the Mods. This is because we do try to work as a team and also try to be consistent as possible with the way we manage the forum for the benefit of the whole community. Issues or users which are, or could, threaten the health of that community are taken seriously. We also listen to the opinions of the regulars there who have a feel for the place and it's best interests in mind. Your attitude has been seen for some time as being a negative influence & as such we have been working at trying to stop that in a fair way. What we hope will happen in these situations is that we can reason with the person involved to point out how various matters can be improved. Usually this intervention is quick, simple and invisible to the community as a whole. It is normally only the Mods who know this has been happening behind the scenes. We do not hold grudges and are VERY reluctant to issue infractions or bans. The Photography Forum is one of the more active ones on the site, but we do not have a track record of many bans at all. We see them as a last resort. Unfortunately you have reached that level now.

What we would like to see is you adjusting your attitude or maybe even looking at the language that you use when posting. If you are constantly having to say that what you posted is not what you meant then that needs to be looked at by you. May I suggest that you get a friend who will be honest with you to read through your posts & they then suggest how you could improve matters. We all would like to see you being a positive member of the community here, but if that is not possible then in the interest of that community we may be forced to exclude you from it. The ball is very much in your court at this stage.

AnCatDubh

Thecageyone wrote: »

To the 3 category Mods - Seriously, please sift through my posts, scrutinize each and every one, and come back with every instance of what you perceive to be arrogant or abusive, or warrants a ban ... because not just overly defending myself, but I do not believe I have acted the way you present me in general in there. I started visiting there for help, and to speak to like minded people. i get in trouble one time and ever since it really has felt like I'm being singled out.

The structure on boards provide for photography forum moderators (Calina, Cabansail, and Trishw78) and two Category moderators (myself and Will) - this is the normal route for issue resolution within the arts category.

In all instances thus far, your posts and other users posts have been scrutinised, and in my instance I have responded to every request or report that has been made of me. You will have these details in your pm inbox of which we have had multiple exchanges. Hence, I don't intend to sift through and scrutinise each one again. It has already been done and you have the considered opinion on them.

The above, with the exception of the current matter of which you have no pm correspondence from me as you decided to do directly to the Helpdesk and Feedback without referencing to myself or indeed the other category moderator for the Arts category.

I spoke in person to some members of photography forum, I'd never met them before - I met them at a camera club - Boards was brought up and I told them about my last ban - They felt it was a bit ridiculous. I'm only saying this because 3 of you seem to have a desire to paint me in some horrible light here - the people who've actually met me from that forum wouldn't agree, I don't think.

For the record there is no concerted effort to paint you in a particular light. All I recount here are details of my interactions with you to date in respect of the issues being discussed.

The member who called me a prick initiated the argument, I retaliated a little strongly perhaps. But I only sent him a pm after that. He was already being backed up by his mates [it seemed] and me taking it to pm was taking it off the public boards, or so i believed.

Perhaps you could consider that the so called "mates" weren't mates at all and were just expressing their opinion which happened to agree with the other member or saw more logic to what he happened to be saying rather than what you happened to say.

An Cath Dubh - where have I EVER suggested the forum revolves around me?

If you read back you will see that this is my opinion based on the interactions we've had thus far. I have mentioned this previously in some pm's relating to earlier interactions and issue on the forum.

Please back up your attacks on my person with actual proof that I behave this way, otherwise it's just as I suggest - 3 mods who had an oul' chat off the forum, picking on a relatively new member, all because he speaks his mind.

I don't attack anyone - yourself included. I have merely on all occasions evaluated what I can see before me and posted my opinion on the matter when reviewed in an independent light. I accept and have stated that you don't appear to be able to grasp the concept of how things work on the forum. That doesn't attack your character, rather, suggests that in my opinion you need to evaluate your own attitude on forum. The detail of this opinion should be contained in the multiple previous pm's which you have copies of. The reason you don't have pm's relating to this particular episode is that you have chosen to go directly to the helpdesk and feedback which is why i'm posting in here.

I'd love to see all my horrifically arrogant posts all in one place, show me how horrible I am - I'll admit i am if you can do this.

I don't think and never intended to suggest that you are a horrible individual. I don't believe that you are. I simply believe that your interactions on the forum are such that could be greatly improved by tempering your interactions, looking wider into the established norms and protocols of how the forum operates and take the time to consider the provisions of the charter, manners, and addendum of the forum.

I bet you'll find I've been no worse then the average regular. I've seen some be far more blunt/direct/arrogant/unhelpful than I, with no scolding.

I can honestly say that every user is treated the exact same on the forum. A user on the forum who is brought to the attention of the moderators is dealt with in a very straight forward way provided for by the charter and associated posts. Thus if the moderators of the forum have been in touch, you should accept that there is a genuine issue to be addressed. You are welcome to discuss such issues with the moderators under the provision of the charter posts, and if not satisfied to discuss with myself or Will, and ultimately posting here. In all instances, even though they are consistently independently reviewed you appear to be ending up with the same opinions that your on forum activity and behaviour needs attention as has been explained multiple times. There must be a point where this will actually sink in.

Also ACD, this thing about it being "unfair"?? it's unfair to me - as a new[ish] member, to be jumped on at every turn, all because I'm honest - genuinely. Just as I say above, I've seen far worse go un-modded or warned off.

I think I have addressed this point many times with you previously and the point of forum revolving around you gets brought back into immediate focus. If you are exhibiting behaviour that is at variance to the way the place operates, then whether you are a new user or a seasoned forum warrior you can expect some discussion and direction. If you refuse to accept the direction, and assuming that direction is pointing you back to operating within the charter and associated posts, then yes, you bring further trouble on yourself.

Take the time to go through all my posts in the category, please. And show us my worst.

This has been covered in all of my previous pms. I don't intend to reiterate.

This is all very strange btw, coming from someone who added me as a contact on Pix.ie - at least you like my photos eh

I'm sorry and I don't mean to be rude but a number of points on this;

a) pix.ie has nothing to do with boards other than it gets discussed a lot.
b) my activity on boards is independent to my personal space on pix.ie
c) I haven't added you as a contact on pix.ie
d) you have added me on pix.ie and i'm ok with that. Pix.ie doesn't need me to confirm if i want you to be able to add me or not. Eitherways I don't have any issue with you adding me.
e) please don't take this as a slight on your character that I haven't added you on pix.ie, as it turns out there are many people who have added me as a contact on pix.ie and I haven't added them back not that I don't like them or think that anyone in that category is a horrible person, i've just kinda stopped adding people - i don't use pix.ie's contact system much to be honest.
f) I personally think you have the makings of a really good photographer and probably would from time to time check out what you are working on. I am thus somewhat dismayed that the efforts thus far of all concerned don't appear to be able to get through to you in terms of cooling things a little, behaving in an appropriate manner and becoming what would generally be considered a valued poster.

It seems/feels to me that the 3 Mods had their own discussion and came here to back one another up.

Categorically not the case. If an issue is in the helpdesk then it is incumbent on anyone involved to offer their opinon. Simple as that. There has been no call to "let's get Keith" in the Helpdesk. I am sorry that you feel that way.

maybe just a little blunt for his own good but that can be toned down.

See, there's the thing now. This has been requested on multiple occasions and to be honest anyone who has suggested it to you thus far, has been shot down by you that such a suggestion is you being harassed.

As a moderator (category) I would dearly love for nobody to be banned, to not have a harsh word with anyone, that boards was nothing but an incredibly productive forum for all members. But online life isn't like that it would appear. We seldom need to ban anyone other than spammers and a very occasional individual who can't just get it and decides that they are more important than the collective of the forum.

They seem to want me ousted for very, very little.

Not true. That thought never comes into it. If someone is reasonable they will be guided by the moderators, if they are unreasonable they will be sanctioned. It is as simple as that. Honestly.

LoLth

I'd just like to say at this point that, if anything, the tone and length of the posts here from the Photography mods and the Arts category mod would show that there is a determination on their part to help you to be a part of the photography community. I dotn think you should take anything they have said as anything other than constructive criticism or perhaps a pointer to what needs to be done to achieve that end.

Nothing I have read would suggest to me that they "want you out" or that they are ganging up on you in a concerted way.

Think of how many users there are on boards. If they really wanted you out, would they be willing to spend this amount of time and effort trying to explain their point of view and asking you to change your posting methods?

You seem to enjoy the photography forum. as you have already posted, thats where you visit, almost exclusively, on boards. Its the atmosphere and tone of the phography forum that the mods are trying to maintain. Surely this is a good enough reason to take the mods at their word and at make an attempt to see their point of view.

Thecageyone

I guess that is true. I just expressed how it felt from this end, I know I can speak out of turn at times. but I never felt like I was being completely arrogant or egotistical in general. The odd time perhaps when I got a bit defensive. I can be touchy, aren't all artists? [I like to think i am one at times]

ACD - I honestly don't remember adding you, in fact Pix.ie is a bit fiddly like that, there is no real interaction - whole other story I know, but maybe I did add you - you didn't have to accept. We probably share some of the same mutual contacts, would be a reason for me to add if I seen you comment on a few of their works.


Thanks for the compliment, I'm sure there was one in there somewhere

Ok, I'll take it all in. I do like the photography section, it can be very helpful and I feel I'm maturing as a photographer [if not in any other sense] - What happens now? AM I still out for the whole 2 weeks? LOLth suggested this might be talked about?

Calina

Thecageyone wrote: »

I guess that is true. I just expressed how it felt from this end, I know I can speak out of turn at times. but I never felt like I was being completely arrogant or egotistical in general. The odd time perhaps when I got a bit defensive. I can be touchy, aren't all artists? [I like to think i am one at times]

that's not really the point though; we know this too, but when we ask you to tone it down, I can't say I get a constructive response from you. If you can recognise this, can you please understand that if we are asking you to tone it down, it's because you actually have gone a little bit overboard? Please?

Thecageyone wrote: »

Ok, I'll take it all in. I do like the photography section, it can be very helpful and I feel I'm maturing as a photographer [if not in any other sense] - What happens now? AM I still out for the whole 2 weeks? LOLth suggested this might be talked about?

I will reduce the ban to one week on this occasion having discussed the matter with LoLth and in light of the last post of yours in here.

regards

Calina

Thecageyone

Thanks.

I will do my best to stick to the rules.


Look forward to getting back into it.

I just always find you come at me more than others Cailin, call it paranoia if you will. But soon as I raise the tone in any manner, I seem to get some kind of ticking off. Whereas others don't - that is just how it feels. I'll tame it down from here on and only post where necessary.