Infrastructure for electric cars: a good or bad idea?

Aidan1

MYOB - A lot of the earlier studies on EV use showed that people very quickly stopped using the public charging points for EVs once they got used to them. When Mini did their first set of tests in Paris, they found that 'range anxiety' tailed off very quickly, and participants began to treat their cars just like any other car, except they plugged it in at home every now and then. The trial results indicated (according to BMW and to the French Govt) that street chargers would probably make up 90% of the total number of chargers, but only be responsible for 10% of the actual charging. In other words, the real purpose of the on street chargers for many motorists is to be there as reassurance - many EV users will very seldom need to use them.

As BK keeps saying, the average car journey, here or elsewhere, is a lot less than even the range of the early BEVs we have at the moment. People can easily do a return commute, or even a series of them, on a single charge. The fast chargers are slightly different in that they facilitate longer journeys, but even they will probably see less and less use over time. After all, a BEV made the (West) Cork-Dublin trip without a recharge in 2010. The next generation of BEVs will have higher capacity batteries again; it'll take another iteration again before these are mass market vehicles, but there are a cohort of PHEVs coming that look very practical already.

Stonewolf

Here's a question to tickle your brain juices.

I live in an apartment on an estate, I don't have specifically designated parking (but tend to park in the same place). The car parking spaces themselves are outside the bounds of my tenancy (or indeed my landlords holding if you prefer to view it that way). There is no provision at all whatsoever for EV charging and I wouldn't expect the management company to have any interest in going through the headache of trying to figure out how to set it up.

Now, I'm not all that interested in getting an EV at the moment, nor will I be for some time but I think my situation is probably typical of a significant number of people living in the areas best suited to EV deployment. My question is this, in the face of the above situation, how are people expected to be able to switch to EVs and how would you structure a program, with minimal subsidy, to help them get access to home charging.

foggy_lad

Stonewolf wrote: »

Here's a question to tickle your brain juices.

I live in an apartment on an estate, I don't have specifically designated parking (but tend to park in the same place). The car parking spaces themselves are outside the bounds of my tenancy (or indeed my landlords holding if you prefer to view it that way). There is no provision at all whatsoever for EV charging and I wouldn't expect the management company to have any interest in going through the headache of trying to figure out how to set it up.

Now, I'm not all that interested in getting an EV at the moment, nor will I be for some time but I think my situation is probably typical of a significant number of people living in the areas best suited to EV deployment. My question is this, in the face of the above situation, how are people expected to be able to switch to EVs and how would you structure a program, with minimal subsidy, to help them get access to home charging.

Perhaps the more important question should be how can owners of these cars who dont have their own driveway (which is a huge number of people) plug them in outside their homes and apartments without the risk of pedestrians tripping over the charging cable and suing the property owner?

Merch

foggy_lad wrote: »

Perhaps the more important question should be how can owners of these cars who dont have their own driveway (which is a huge number of people) plug them in outside their homes and apartments without the risk of pedestrians tripping over the charging cable and suing the property owner?

Or the very likely possibility of having people tamper with them, either by unplugging them or ripping them out.

Stonewolf

foggy_lad wrote: »

Perhaps the more important question should be how can owners of these cars who dont have their own driveway (which is a huge number of people) plug them in outside their homes and apartments without the risk of pedestrians tripping over the charging cable and suing the property owner?

Well, in my case, I'd nip down to Coolmine in the morning and take up 50% of the charging bays for the entire day which just feels wrong as I should be able to do it at home.

I guess one solution might be to install chargers at the spaces (possibly not all of them) and issue some sort of tag to residents who asked for them to track who needed to pay for the electricity but then you'd be getting into a load of account management headache. Providing an out of the box solution for that (in which the mgmt company don't have to do anything and just contract someone else to do it for them) would probably be a good business model if someone hasn't already nabbed it. Especially if you can install overhead solar in the spaces.

OssianSmyth

Stonewolf wrote: »

My question is this, in the face of the above situation [apartment living] , how are people expected to be able to switch to EVs and how would you structure a program, with minimal subsidy, to help them get access to home charging.

The ESB will install a free external power RCD for new EVs. If you live in an apartment you need the written consent of the mgmt co. In future, apartment car parks should have EV points included as part of planning permission. This could be included in Part L of the next revision of the building regs, or in the regional or county development plans. The next NEEAP (national building energy efficiency strategy) is due in 2014 and a requirement for charging points in new apartments and commercial buildings could be included.

A number of companies are developing payment systems for shared private charging systems. (swipe card)

foggy_lad wrote: »

how can owners of these cars who dont have their own driveway (which is a huge number of people) plug them in outside their homes and apartments without the risk of pedestrians tripping over the charging cable and suing the property owner?

I've seen this kind of cable cover used.
Realistically you can't leave unprotected cables across a footpath.

Merch wrote: »

Or the very likely possibility of having people tamper with them, either by unplugging them or ripping them out.

You need locking cables. Some cable connector types lock and some don't. You can't legislate for people cutting the wires. There are reachable wires entering houses around the country. They're not often cut.

Merch

OssianSmyth wrote: »

The ESB will install a free external power RCD for new EVs. If you live in an apartment you need the written consent of the mgmt co. In future, apartment car parks should have EV points included as part of planning permission. This could be included in Part L of the next revision of the building regs, or in the regional or county development plans. The next NEEAP (national building energy efficiency strategy) is due in 2014 and a requirement for charging points in new apartments and commercial buildings could be included.

A number of companies are developing payment systems for shared private charging systems. (swipe card)

I've seen this kind of cable cover used.
Realistically you can't leave unprotected cables across a footpath.


You need locking cables. Some cable connector types lock and some don't. You can't legislate for people cutting the wires. There are reachable wires entering houses around the country. They're not often cut.

People are reasonably concerned about slicing through a 230v AC cabling, this is going to be what? DC how many volts? Not that Id attempt it myself, no expert, but I think Ive read of injuries with high DC?

What do you mean locking cables, is this a specific cabling type??? or do you just mean secure?

I'd have imagined the manufacturers of the vehicles would have come up with a specific compatible charger for their own vehicles (at least for the owners home if they have one) charging point that could flexibly (to account for slightly different position of the vehicle) connect securely to the vehicle and provide charging with peace of mind. While generic units would presumably located on street to allow charging of any EV.

When I think about it, its like leaving your petrol cap open and a slow fill overnight, that would draw someones attention, with the view to tampering with it.

I suppose you can only account so much for vandalism, if someone really wants to have a go at it, they will.

foggy_lad

OssianSmyth wrote: »

The ESB will install a free external power RCD for new EVs. If you live in an apartment you need the written consent of the mgmt co. In future, apartment car parks should have EV points included as part of planning permission. This could be included in Part L of the next revision of the building regs, or in the regional or county development plans. The next NEEAP (national building energy efficiency strategy) is due in 2014 and a requirement for charging points in new apartments and commercial buildings could be included.

A number of companies are developing payment systems for shared private charging systems. (swipe card)

I've seen this kind of cable cover used.
Realistically you can't leave unprotected cables across a footpath.


You need locking cables. Some cable connector types lock and some don't. You can't legislate for people cutting the wires. There are reachable wires entering houses around the country. They're not often cut.

So you cover the cable then some local toe rag comes along and laughing with their mates decides to cut through the cable and possibly gets an almighty shock?? Who does (s)he claim against? It wont be the ESB it will be the householder and (s)he will win.

OssianSmyth

hence the RCD

Enduro

Thinking about billing and/or theft of electricity (unplugging someone else's car and plugging in your own whilst they're away from the vehicle)... I'm guessing it should be possible to pass data from the vehicle to the charging system (And vice versa) over the wires. If each vehicle has a unique ID (similar to the way each ethernet device /sim card / mobile phone has), then it should be reasonably straighforward to ensure that the correct owner is billed for any electricity used. It would also faciliate buying charging in a similar way to buying credit for a mobile phone (i.e multiple possibilites depending on your choice / credit rating, and many different ways of paying for public charging points). Home charging points could be easily configured to only charge specific recognised IDs.

Is this the way the system currently works, and if not is there any reason why it couldn't work this way?

bk

The billing system is already handled with the current chargers.

You are issued with an RFID card by ESB ecars, which you use to unlock the charging ports. The charging cable and ports are designed in such a way that they can't be pulled out, you have to use your RFID card to remove the cable.

To answer Wattys concerns:

1) The ESB will install a charging point in an apartment block car park if the management company give permission (they normally would, it increases the value of a development, no real reason to turn it down).

2) The chargers can be the versions that use the RFID cards, so you are charged for your actual usage.

3) The versions that use the RFID cards also lock the cable in, so they can't be removed by other people.

4) Charge points are usually placed in such a way that the car parks right up next to the charging point, so that people wouldn't be walking between them and risking a trip.

5) Vandalism is a risk, just like it is with anything. Your charging gear is as likely to be vandalised as anyones car is likely to be vandalised (keyed, slashed tires, etc.).

However I think people are less likely to vandalise electrical gear due to the risk (even if it is untrue) of being electrocuted.

Vandalism to your car and charging cable is covered by your insurance. The charger is covered by ESB ecars (and I assume their insurance company).

L1011

Aidan1 wrote: »

The next generation of BEVs will have higher capacity batteries again

So we've been told since 1990.

Stonewolf

Range anxiety will continue to be an issue until your car can manage 4 occupants plus weekend luggage for 3.5 hours at 120km/hr on a 30m fast-charge.

This is less than you'd expect of most modern ICE vehicles but it's the basic functional requirement of a long trip which all modern cars are expected to meet (longer trips are going to be broken into 3 hour stretches due to biology so you don't realistically need the extra range and the example presumes your car is not designed to take more than 4 adults on long trips which is pretty much the vast majority of cars (5 seat cars are, in the majority not intended to be used as such for long trips)). If your car can't do this then you will occasionally (or more often depending on your personal needs) find yourself without a suitable conveyance.

Compare this with probably the best example of a fully electric car, the Model S. It claims 200 miles at a pedestrian 55mph which just isn't good enough (our benchmark is 217 at 75) and that's single-occupancy which we can assume drops 30% when you add three passengers and weekend luggage. Even worse if it's cold or hot outside.

While I accept that for dawdling around the city electric cars are fine, until they can meet the long trip requirements people will still not buy them even if there are all the chargers in the world available. Hopefully when next I look at buying a car (I just bought one last year that's a while) they'll be better but at the moment they're not up to scratch.

In the meantime I wholly support rolling out better charging infrastructure as it will make life a lot easier when the day of the electric car does indeed come. As an addition to the scenario I presented above, I move house every year or so because I rent (and frankly the quality of rented accommodation and landlords in Ireland is such that I don't feel like ever staying put when my lease comes up). I know the corridors of power are full of people for whom such a lifestyle is anathema and illogical so how hard is it to get the ESB in with a charger if you've already had them in before elsewhere?

maninasia

While I accept that for dawdling around the city electric cars are fine, until they can meet the long trip requirements people will still not buy them even if there are all the chargers in the world available.

Let's say that range doesn't get up the fabled 300 miles anytime soon (if it did the whole paradigm would change).

I think the above is too simplistic. IMO what is more important after taking out the cost of the vehicle and tax and maintenance on the vehicle (which are starting to even out overall)

- The number of chargers available
x
- The speed of charging
x
- The fuel cost differential between Electric vs ICE


If you had sufficient chargers every 20-30 Kms (or at few major service points on motorways) along with rapid charging of 30 mins- 1 hour and a fuel cost differential of 1/10th of ICE...I think the whole equation changes. People WILL wait a bit longer if they can save a LOT of money. Not only that, they do not need to own a second car, thereby saving huge money on purchase, tax and maintenance, all this for the odd small inconvenience (or none at all according to your personal preference).

It comes down to money saving in the end for a huge proportion of people.
Most people are only doing long trips every few weeks or so..so they can put up with the slightly longer wait at those times (which is not much inconvenience if you can eat/drink something and stretch your legs) for the very considerable savings involved. For city run around an electric car is pretty much perfect if you can charge at home.

Ireland has mild weather, with a rather compact size and many towns available, it seems to be a pretty good place to own such a car compared to places with more extreme weather and long distances between destinations.

bk

MYOB wrote: »

So we've been told since 1990.

And in fairness battery tech has improved immensely since the 80's - 90's

Electric Vehicles have much greater range today then they have ever had and they are doing so in much heavier vehicles then ever.

Back in the 80's and 90's you had electric vehicles, but they were often almost milk carts, very light compared to regular cars.

Today, Nissan Leaf, Tesla S, etc. all weigh the same and are made on the same chasis and materials as ICE cars in the same class. No crappy light materials, all the same safety features, entertainment features, comfort features of a regular car and they manage to do far greater distances then the cars of the 90's

Hell there are even battery operated SUV's coming now!!!

Battery tech has come on in leaps and bounds and it will continue to do so. The biggest breakthrough that is happening now, is that these batteries are now being built at an industrial scale, with millions being built per year, rather then a small few being hand built in a lab.

This is vitally important as this will drive down the cost of such batteries.

Stonewolf wrote: »

Range anxiety will continue to be an issue until your car can manage 4 occupants plus weekend luggage for 3.5 hours at 120km/hr on a 30m fast-charge.

For feck sake and how often do people make such a journey, once a year?

Hell 3.5 hours is far longer then the typical longest journey in Ireland, 2.5 hours is Dublin to any city in Ireland.

Here are some facts from the US, a country much larger then Ireland and more car dependent.

- Average distance driven daily: 30 miles
- Average distance of a single trip: 7 miles
- 98% of drivers never drive more then 60 miles

If you read the blog above, you will find that today the guy has driven Cork to Dublin, with one passenger in a Nissan Leaf and needing just one 30 minute supercharge along the way.

Even if you have to stop twice for your 3.5 hour journey. That is hardly a hardship once a year, in return for the massive cost savings you will make over petrol the rest of the year.

And anyway if you are only making this sort of trip once or twice a year, why not just rent a diesel car for the day? In the US Nissan include 10 days free car rentals in the cost of buying a leaf for just this reason.

Finally if you are regularly making such a trip, then buy a electric hybrid instead, which includes a petrol engine.

I think the range anxiety is purely a psychological thing. People think they drive much further then they do and they think they do the whole 4 adults in a car for 3 hours thing far more frequently then they actually do. The reality is most people drive relatively short distances every day and usually on their own.

Again, Ireland is almost perfectly suited to electric vehicles:

- Small Island, with no real long distance journeys, all are really medium distance.
- Vast majority of journeys are between Dublin and the other cities, max distance is 252km (Dublin to Cork).
- Lots of towns along the main routes where you could recharge.
- Very mild climate
- Mostly flat.

Really you almost couldn't find a country better suited to EV's.

antoobrien

bk wrote: »

For feck sake and how often do people make such a journey, once a year?

Every 2/3 weeks for a lot of people I know that live in Dublin and have family in Cork, Kerry etc.

bk

antoobrien wrote: »

Every 2/3 weeks for a lot of people I know that live in Dublin and have family in Cork, Kerry etc.

I'm from Cork and live in Dublin.

As pointed out, in the blog above, the current Nissan Leaf can do Dublin to Cork easily with just one 30 minute supercharge already. So it is already perfectly feasible today, with little or no extra effort.

And again, this completely ignores plug-in hybrid/petrol cars like to new Prius and Ford Focus going on sale this year.

They have a small battery capable of going 20 to 30 miles on a single charge (enough for the typical daily commute) and then have an additional petrol tank and engine for longer distance. So zero issues and zero range anxiety.

maninasia

Plug-in hybrids are a great medium term solution, especially while waiting for infrastructure build up and battery cost to come down. Hybrids will help to perform this function, by driving battery sales, improving reliability, demonstrating investment potential and lowering cost of production through the whole supply chain. The hybrids will gradually grow in electric only range due to consumer preference for fuel savings and competition.

It's predicted that by 2025 battery cost will be less than 1/3rd of current pricing. Now if that's the case a simple calculation would suggest that range could be increased by 1/2 and the price of cars could still be significantly cheaper than the Nissan Leaf. At this stage hybrids would be an uneconomical option as range anxiety would no longer be a worry for the vast majority of users

It's the industrial build-up and economies of scale that often changes the paradigm of a given technology. To give an idea of how this applies look at the situation for the solar panel industry. Solar power per KWH has literally halved within 3 years, although the industry has suffered a large supply glut it's in-feasible to see prices go up from here. Instead I predict they will steadily go down but at a slightly reduced rate compared to the last three years. It has been predicted for years that other technologies would supersede PV silicon cell technology due to efficiency concerns, instead what is more important is reliability and industrial scale cost reduction. I believe the same phenomenon is at work with Li-ion batteries and they will still be the work horse for the next couple of decades.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2012/12/daily-chart-19

If car manufacturers are smart they will offer some type of warranty or trade-in deal for the batteries. They should do this because the cost of batteries in the future is much cheaper than the cost of batteries now, it will help them to get business now and also get repeat business in future.

foggy_lad

Are any of these battery cars the size of a family car(comfortable on longer journeys for two adults and three children)? Are they any use when towing a trailer or with a roof box?

maninasia

Hybrids would be a good solution there, depends on cost doesn't it.

bk

foggy_lad wrote: »

Are any of these battery cars the size of a family car(comfortable on longer journeys for two adults and three children)? Are they any use when towing a trailer or with a roof box?

Yes they are, take a look at the Nissan Leaf, it is a five door hatchback, exactly the same size as other typical 5 door hatchbacks like the Ford Focus:

http://www.nissan.ie/vehicles/leaf/

The Ford Focus Electric, is a fully electric car that is the same size as the Ford Focus:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Focus_Electric

The Ford C-Max is a plug-in hybrid 5 to 7 seat Multiple Passenger Vehicle:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_C-Max

The Ford Fusion Energei, a plug-in hybrid mid-size sedan (exactly the same as the existing Ford Fusions):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Fusion_Energi#Ford_Fusion_Energi

The Tesla S is a 4 seat fastback, the same size as equivalent BMW's and Mercs:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_S

In fact fully electric vehicles typically have more storage space then petrol cars as they have no big petrol engine or petrol tank. For instance the Tesla S as luggage space in both the back and the "engine" bay and actually has more space then many MPVs:

http://ww4.hdnux.com/photos/14/13/41/3192927/3/628x471.jpg

Yes, they can also tow trailers and roof boxes.

antoobrien

bk wrote: »

I'm from Cork and live in Dublin.

As pointed out, in the blog above, the current Nissan Leaf can do Dublin to Cork easily with just one 30 minute supercharge already. So it is already perfectly feasible today, with little or no extra effort.

Yeah the blog is light on details such as speeds and load (incl. electrical load), how long is spent in eco mode vs driving normally etc. The interesting thing I found is how detrimental hills are to the range.

I'd be very interested to see the effect of having two/three whiney brats in the back would have on the ability to charge the car for 20 mins. I can hear the converstaion my brother would have with his 10 year old:
Daddy why are we stopped?
To charge the battery.
Go back to petrol, it's quicker and I don't have to stop here every time we see grandad.

It also makes it clear that unless the ecar is free, it's still far more expensive than petrol to own (unless you have the cost in cash handy) and will be until petrol/diesel goes above €3.5/l.

maninasia

Do people not stop to go for a piss and eat and drink something these days in Ireland?
Surely they'll build motorway service stations like the REST OF THE WORLD someday . I should have a conversation with my son someday, 'Daddy, why aren't there any service stations on the motorway, I'm bursting!'
I'd guess people can put up with 20-30 min stops when the fuel is almost free.

bk

antoobrien wrote: »

It also makes it clear that unless the ecar is free, it's still far more expensive than petrol to own (unless you have the cost in cash handy) and will be until petrol/diesel goes above €3.5/l.

That point is arguable. I think it is certainly worth discussing.

According to the blog he is saving about €600 for every 7,000 KM.

Now of course an electric car is about €5000 or €6000 more expensive then an equivalent petrol car to buy.

After 80,000km you will save €6,600 over petrol at todays prices, so you break even then and you are saving money after that. I do admit however that not everyone will have an extra €5000 up front.

The big unknown is the cost of the battery. The battery will typically have to be replaced after 10 years. Now the cost of the battery today is about €10,000.

However it is expected that the cost of these batteries will drop to 1/3 in 10 years. So you are looking at a cost of about €4000, but then the battery isn't useless, it will be reused and recycled so you might get some money for it, maybe €1000 or so.

Even at the €4000 price, you are looking at it paying back after just 50,000km

So the break even point is about 130,000 km, but this ignores two important points:

1) Petrol prices don't continue to increase over the next 10 years. I think we all know the reality of that.

2) ICE cars have much higher maintenance costs. You have to change spark plugs, etc. The Nissan Leaf only needs a full service every 300,000 km versus 100,000 km for an ICE car. A study done in the US, found that it costs $1,500 a year more to maintain an ICE car then an EV.

So after 10 years you will have saved about €10,000 in maintenance costs, or more then double the likely cost of replacing the battery 10 years from now.

Even now, it is looking like an EV could work out being a significant money saver.

Certainly 10 years from now, when the batteries are 1/3 of the price and petrol probably even more expensive, it will likely be a no brainer.

loyatemu

bk wrote: »

So after 10 years you will have saved about €10,000 in maintenance costs, or more then double the likely cost of replacing the battery 10 years from now.

really?! - who spends €1000 a year on maintaining their engine. Other maintenance costs such as tyres, shocks, electrics etc will be the same so you're talking about savings on the engine alone - that figure is nonsense.

antoobrien

bk wrote: »

So after 10 years you will have saved about €10,000 in maintenance costs, or more then double the likely cost of replacing the battery 10 years from now.

Seriously bk how many people do you know that keep a car for 10 years? Gambling that they'll be popular enough in 10 years in order to take out the mini mortgage required to get one is about as stupid as taking at face value that house prices were ever only going up despite evidence to the contrary from out past.

I'm on my first car right now (8yo) and I have a choice of a trade-in or run it into the ground, but I doubt I'll have it 10 years (personally I'm hoping for another scrappage scheme in the next 3 years, but that's about as likely as seeing income taxes go down). Even with those figures, EVs are still far too expensive for me to take them seriously as an option - ignoring the unacceptable 30 minute break required for charging.

loyatemu wrote: »

really?! - who spends €1000 a year on maintaining their engine. Other maintenance costs such as tyres, shocks, electrics etc will be the same so you're talking about savings on the engine alone - that figure is nonsense.

Indeed - I've had my car for 5 years now and I've only spent about 1,500-2,000 (breaks & tyres replaced once) on maintenance, including servicing. But then the blog refers to a diesel, which is more expensive.

maninasia

EVs are still far too expensive for me to take them seriously as an option - ignoring the unacceptable 30 minute break required for charging.

The first bit I can understand, the second part is simply not true.

Just look at Ryanair, Europe's biggest airline. They can be a pain in the arse but consumers love to fly on Ryanair because they get you where you need to go reliably and at a generally cheap price.
Don't underestimate the ability to change consumers behaviour. Besides 30 mins charging is perfectly acceptable if only doing it mid journey every now and then or if doing it while at work. In reality city and suburban commuter should not have to charge during the day.

bk

Well if you only keep it for ten years, then even better, you don't have to worry about the battery replacement cost, just scrap it and buy a new one.

Then the only cost you have is the €5,000 extra over the price of an ICE car. As I mentioned, you have to drive just 80,000km to break even. After that you will thus be saving €600 per 7,000km at todays oil prices.

antoobrien

maninasia wrote: »

The first bit I can understand, the second part is simply not true.

Just look at Ryanair, Europe's biggest airline. They can be a pain in the arse but consumers love to fly on Ryanair because they get you where you need to go reliably and at a generally cheap price.
Don't underestimate the ability to change consumers behaviour. Besides 30 mins charging is perfectly acceptable if only doing it mid journey every now and then or if doing it while at work.

Not in the middle of a trip it's not, stop with the apples and oranges. It can't change a behviour if there's no room to change it. You're making the silly assumption that all trips are within the range a 100% charge - they're not. Stopping for 30m or more is not acceptable.

I've also finally found some sped references in the blog. The poster refers to doing doing 85km/h tops on a motorway (borderline dangerously slow for a motorway imo) and only goes higher when trailing trucks (that is dodgy driving behaviour as to get a "tow" you need to be closer to the truck than the safe braking distance).

So if I was to attempt, what was until recently a regular, 220km trip between Galway & Dublin (door to door a trip I do in less than 2h) the ecar would cost me an extra 1-1.5 hours of my time - assuming the fast charge points were available and I didn't have to queue.

maninasia

Stopping in the middle of a long trip for 30 mins is unacceptable? How so? Especially if the fuel is almost free?
Could you not see a scenario where service stations and even individual food & beverage outlets place superchargers outside their premises to attract customers to charge while they eat or relax?

As I said already consumers are very quick to change behaviour due to cost/benefit ratios.

Besides for somebody who is doing regular long commutes I wouldn't recommend an EV just yet. But for most people this is simply not the case and they can easily put up with some stops during the infrequent long journeys (as long as there is sufficient charging infrastructure available, which shouldn't be too difficult).