Recommend a book to improve punctuation/grammar

Orion101

Hello,

Just wondering if anyone can recommend a book which offers a comprehensive treatment of U.K. punctuation and grammar?

I'm not interested in Eats Shoots and Leaves (if I wanted a joke-book I would buy one). I'd like something that goes into a good level of detail but tries to make the concepts as simple to understand as possible.

Any suggestions?

Ta!

Malice

What's wrong with Eats, Shoots and Leaves? Admittedly I only skimmed through a part of it but it was the resource that taught me, in a quite straightforward fashion, the difference between "its" and "it's" which is something vast numbers of people never seem to grasp.

It's not that bad is it?

FlutterinBantam

Orion101 wrote: »

Hello,

Just wondering if anyone can recommend a book which offers a comprehensive treatment of U.K. punctuation and grammar?

I'm not interested in Eats Shoots and Leaves (if I wanted a joke-book I would buy one). I'd like something that goes into a good level of detail but tries to make the concepts as simple to understand as possible.

Any suggestions?

Ta!

Eats Shoots & Leaves is not a joke book.


Maybe that's where your problem springs from.


Penguin do loads of books on punctuation and grammar.

Orion101

Malice_ wrote: »

What's wrong with Eats, Shoots and Leaves? Admittedly I only skimmed through a part of it but it was the resource that taught me, in a quite straightforward fashion, the difference between "its" and "it's" which is something vast numbers of people never seem to grasp.

It's not that bad is it?

I don't think that it's bad. I just think it isn't comprehensive enough.

Orion101

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Eats Shoots & Leaves is not a joke book.


Maybe that's where your problem springs from.


Penguin do loads of books on punctuation and grammar.

Obviously it isn't a joke book, no more than it is a comprehensive guide to grammar and punctuation.

I bow to your astute appraisal of the origins of my "problem".

FlutterinBantam

Well constructed reply, nicely punctuated, and concise.

You don't need any books.

Malice

I'd agree with FlutterinBantam. If you've already read Eats, Shoots and Leaves and feel you're above that level then you're already far ahead of most people when it comes to grammar and punctuation. That includes people who write for a living!

Orion101

It's more about getting from 80% accurate to 100%.

I'd especially like to learn the technicalities of sentence structure.

Any suggestions?

Su Campu

I just can't get over how many people in modern day Ireland are totally illiterate when it comes to English punctuation, and nowhere better illustrated than on boards.ie and other such sites, but noticeable in all walks of life, even TV presenters, who I would have thought would need a pretty high standard of English to get the job...then again...:rolleyes:

Some examples that get up my nose:

-It's/Its
-They're/Their
-There is/There are (please use "there are" when talking about plural)
-Than/Then (eg. better "then" the other.....please use "than")
-Using an apostrophe when indicating plural
-I "seen" it instead of I "saw" it
-Using the past perfect instead of the past participle (eg. Ray Houghton's the worst offender, saying things like "He's went for the ball" instead of "He went.." or "He's gone for the ball"
-Basic spelling errors.
-And so on....

I know there is always the typo, which can happen to anyone, but it's pretty easy to differentiate between a typo and someone's total illiteracy.

Rant over

deman

Orion101 wrote: »

It's more about getting from 80% accurate to 100%.

If you're already at 80% proficiency then you're better than most people using boards.ie or almost any public forum for that matter. And that's not a joke.

Malice

One typo which annoys me when I see is something like "I would of gone there" instead of "I would have gone there" or "I would've gone there".

Su Campu

Malice_ wrote: »

One typo which annoys me when I see is something like "I would of gone there" instead of "I would have gone there" or "I would've gone there".

Thanks, that was another one that I meant to add to my list! The sad thing is it's usually not a typo - people really do think that's the correct way to say it!

Micilin Muc

I've a good few English grammar books:

Chambers Good Writing Guide
Oxford Guide to Effective Writing and Speaking
Collins Good Writing Skills
Collins Good Grammar
Eats, Shoots and Leaves
Accomodating Brocolli in the Cemetary*

I would recommend Collins Good Grammar firstly. It has plenty of examples, but naturally can be quite boring!


* I spelt it correctly the first time, double-checked it with Amazon, and have just figured out that the title is spelt wrong - on purpose presumably!

FlutterinBantam

I prefer 'spelled' as past tense of 'spell' myself.

'Spelt wrong' tut tut...adverb... how things are done the adverbs tell as slowly quickly idly ,well, thus 'spelled wrongly'


Thaaaaaank yuh.

Micilin Muc

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

I prefer 'spelled' as past tense of 'spell' myself.

'Spelt wrong' tut tut...adverb... how things are done the adverbs tell as slowly quickly idly ,well, thus 'spelled wrongly'


Thaaaaaank yuh.

Which is exactly why I need so many of those books! My Irish grammar is better than my English grammar though!

Spelt/spelled, hung/hanged, drunk/drank ... I have no idea!!

Edit: I should know that "wrongly" is correct, I understand that much!

FlutterinBantam

There is a school of thought which says 'spelt 'is ok.

Personally, I don't like it.

Micilin Muc

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

There is a school of thought which says 'spelt 'is ok.

Personally, I don't like it.

You don't like the school of thought, or you don't like 'spelt'?

As a language teacher, I find myself making the same mistakes my students make, even though I understand the mistake and can correct it when they make it. I know more people with 90% proficiency in Irish than people with 90% proficiency in English. It's hard to find someone with good English!

Sid_Justice

The Panda book is not a pocket reference you can look up the details of the semi-colon in. My dictionary has a (fairly) comprehensive guide to grammar at the back. TBH I'm content enough being a grammar buccaneer.

Donkey Oaty

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

'Spelt wrong' tut tut...adverb... how things are done the adverbs tell as slowly quickly idly ,well, thus 'spelled wrongly'

That all sounds finely in theory, but in practice it can sound oddly.

FlutterinBantam

That's the problem with English, always some anomalies.

pickarooney

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

There is a school of thought which says 'spelt 'is ok.

Personally, I don't like it.

As a coeliac disease sufferer I can just about tolerate it.

nompere

Micilin Muc wrote: »

Which is exactly why I need so many of those books! My Irish grammar is better than my English grammar though!

Spelt/spelled, hung/hanged, drunk/drank ... I have no idea!!

Edit: I should know that "wrongly" is correct, I understand that much!

Pictures are hung and people are hanged.

pickarooney

nompere wrote: »

Pictures are hung and people are hanged.

Some people are hung too

Donkey Oaty

pickarooney wrote: »

Some people are hung too

I'm going to resist the temptation to make a cheap joke about my user name here and instead will point out that sometimes people are hung out of windows etc to extract confessions before they are hanged.

FlutterinBantam

Like 'hung out to dry like?:)

Donkey Oaty

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Like 'hung out to dry like?:)

You've got it, FB. Hung out to dry, then strung up like a kipper.

What are you in for?

maryxyz

Practically every second person now thinks it's acceptable to say "I seen it", "I done it" etc.

I find it really annoying - I wonder why it has become so widespread - any ideas ?

Maryxyz

Donkey Oaty

maryxyz wrote: »

Practically every second person now thinks it's acceptable to say "I seen it", "I done it" etc.

I find it really annoying - I wonder why it has become so widespread - any ideas ?

Maryxyz

You ain't seen nothing yet!

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055928719