Overtaking in a Bus Lane

macroman

I came onto a dual carriageway with a bus lane on my left, the speed limit went from 80km/h to 60km/h. Obstruction ahead in my lane with clear road ahead of it. Two drivers ahead of me indicate left and overtake it on the left via the bus lane. I did this also and so did three drivers behind me. The road ahead, and bus lane were clear at the time.

Further on down the road I got the blues and pulled over in a garage. First of all I was given out to for not pulling into the bus lane - instead I continued on for 1.5 km to the garage. Next I was threatened to be arrested without having the offence for which I was to be arrested explained to me. When I stated that another five motorists did this also to get around an obstruction he said "well you were the one who got caught".

I will put my hands up to the speeding - the area has caught me out before as it goes from 80km/h - 60km/h - 80km/h. In my opinion wasn't excessive and I slowed down after overtaking. Either way there's nothing I can do about it. 2 points and €80 fine for the speeding. He then proceeded to book me for driving in a bus lane and overtaking in a bus lane and told me I'm lucky that I'm not getting arrested - two more €60 fines!

I'm by no means bad mouthing AGS, but firstly out of five people I was singled out and caught, I accept that I was exceeding the speed limit, so they were right to book me for that, but in order to get around this obstruction I had to go via the bus lane. I wasn't driving in the bus lane for more than a few seconds. I had to in order to avoid running up the back of a truck :eek:

I'm not looking for sympathy, I obviously was in the wrong but I just can't stomach the two fines for using the bus lane when there was a truck broken down in the carriageway! Just feeling a little hard done by - plus they're my first points

The Garda and his attitude gave my confidence in AGS a knock, if I contested it's my word against his.

-Chris-

I don't understand your complaint. You did all the things he fined you for, you got caught doing it. The end.

As for "if I hadn't done it, I'd have run into the back of a truck", I'd like to hear more about that...

-Chris-

-Chris- wrote: »

As for "if I hadn't done it, I'd have run into the back of a truck", I'd like to hear more about that...

+1, What happened to driving at a speed that enables you to stop within the distance you can see to be clear?

As for the whole woe is me element to this story the only woeful part is that the others weren't caught as well. I mean do you really expect the Guards to be happy about seeing you speeding, undertaking and driving in a bus lane. We all make mistakes, best just to learn from it and move on.

jimmyw

macroman wrote: »

I came onto a dual carriageway with a bus lane on my left, the speed limit went from 80km/h to 60km/h. Obstruction ahead in my lane with clear road ahead of it. Two drivers ahead of me indicate left and overtake it on the left via the bus lane. I did this also and so did three drivers behind me. The road ahead, and bus lane were clear at the time.

Further on down the road I got the blues and pulled over in a garage. First of all I was given out to for not pulling into the bus lane - instead I continued on for 1.5 km to the garage. Next I was threatened to be arrested without having the offence for which I was to be arrested explained to me. When I stated that another five motorists did this also to get around an obstruction he said "well you were the one who got caught".


I will put my hands up to the speeding - the area has caught me out before as it goes from 80km/h - 60km/h - 80km/h. In my opinion wasn't excessive and I slowed down after overtaking. Either way there's nothing I can do about it. 2 points and €80 fine for the speeding. He then proceeded to book me for driving in a bus lane and overtaking in a bus lane and told me I'm lucky that I'm not getting arrested - two more €60 fines!

I'm by no means bad mouthing AGS, but firstly out of five people I was singled out and caught, I accept that I was exceeding the speed limit, so they were right to book me for that, but in order to get around this obstruction I had to go via the bus lane. I wasn't driving in the bus lane for more than a few seconds. I had to in order to avoid running up the back of a truck :eek:

I'm not looking for sympathy, I obviously was in the wrong but I just can't stomach the two fines for using the bus lane when there was a truck broken down in the carriageway! Just feeling a little hard done by - plus they're my first points

The Garda and his attitude gave my confidence in AGS a knock, if I contested it's my word against his.

Could you not have overtaken on the right?

I would have though it was a fairly acceptable practice to move to the bus lane to get passed a car turning right for instance. It keeps traffic moving rather than everything getting blocked up. There are a few places I know where people always move left into the bus lane to undertake cars turning right as its a difficult turn right and cars tend to get stuck waiting.

I was obviously wrong about it being acceptable though.

-Chris-

But is that on a road with one "normal" lane and one bus lane?

I read it that the op was on a dual carriage way with two "normal" lanes and one bus lane.

freighter

-Chris- wrote: »

But is that on a road with one "normal" lane and one bus lane?

I read it that the op was on a dual carriage way with two "normal" lanes and one bus lane.

It looks that way to me to. i read it twice:P

macroman

Sorry if I was unclear. Two lane carriageway. One normal, one a buslane.

-Chris- wrote: »

I don't understand your complaint. You did all the things he fined you for, you got caught doing it. The end.

As for "if I hadn't done it, I'd have run into the back of a truck", I'd like to hear more about that...

My complaint is I had no alternative but to move into the bus lane. Two lanes, one blocked with the truck, the other a bus lane. Like the drivers in front I noticed the truck ahead and moved in to the bus lane to get around it before indicating and moving back into my lane. About 2-3 kms later I got pulled.

Deleted User wrote: »

+1, What happened to driving at a speed that enables you to stop within the distance you can see to be clear?

As for the whole woe is me element to this story the only woeful part is that the others weren't caught as well. I mean do you really expect the Guards to be happy about seeing you speeding, undertaking and driving in a bus lane. We all make mistakes, best just to learn from it and move on.

I fully accept that I was exceeding the speed limit, but he could have use his discretion that I had no alternative but to go into the bus lane to overtake the obstruction - there was nowhere else to go apart from sitting behind the truck. I could have stopped well clear of the truck, but I noticed it ahead as did the other drivers, so I moved into the bus lane to clear it.

I accept the speeding, I was 100% in the wrong, but what irks me is that I got done for the bus lane offences yet I had nowhere else to go. Given the opportunity would rather you sit behind a broken down truck or overtake it in the bus lane like everyone else? The Garda just seen his opportunity to pull me and threw everything at me, yet nobody else got the two fines for driving in the bus lane and overtaking in a bus lane.

Guy:Incognito

macroman wrote: »

".

I will put my hands up to the speeding

I'm by no means bad mouthing AGS, but firstly out of five people I was singled out and caught,.

Sounds like you singled yourself out tbh.

At the end of the day it's 1 Garda car, so they can realisticly only pull over 1 offender. You were either just the unlucky one to be picked or they figured you were the worst.

-Chris-

macroman wrote: »

Sorry if I was unclear. Two lane carriageway. One normal, one a buslane.

In that case I think it's quite unfair that you were done for being in the buslane. The speeding fine should have been enough imho (unless you were driving like a tool, and the speeding/buslane were just a symptom).

Del2005

Could you not have waited for the road on the right to clear and overtake correctly? If there was no bus lane that's what you would have had to do.

twowheelsonly

Sounds harsh enough all right but the speeding was probably the clincher for the copper.

True Story;
Friend of mine gets pulled over on the Portlaoise bypass, admittedly over the speed limit but also in a line of traffic all at the same speed.

Friend; "But Guard why did you just pull me over when everyone else was doing the same speed?"
Guard; "Well, did you ever go fishing?"
Friend; "I did..""
Guard; " And tell me, did you ever catch ALL the fish....?"

All my buddy could do was laugh and compliment him on his humour - and it was enough to get him off with a warning!!

Victor

Can we confirm that the truck was broken down and not just stopped? How do you know this? Assuming broken down and a solid median and no traffic (including cyclists) in the bus lane, I imagine it would be hard for the bus lane charges to stand up

Perhaps a bit of research and a letter, with suitable apology to the garda might be useful.

macroman wrote: »

Further on down the road I got the blues and pulled over in a garage. First of all I was given out to for not pulling into the bus lane - instead I continued on for 1.5 km to the garage.

macroman wrote: »

About 2-3 kms later I got pulled.

Sorry, did you attempt to evade the Garda for 1.5km or 2-3km?

CaraFawn

twowheelsonly wrote: »

True Story;
Friend of mine gets pulled over on the Portlaoise bypass, admittedly over the speed limit but also in a line of traffic all at the same speed.

Friend; "But Guard why did you just pull me over when everyone else was doing the same speed?"
Guard; "Well, did you ever go fishing?"
Friend; "I did..""
Guard; " And tell me, did you ever catch ALL the fish....?"

All my buddy could do was laugh and compliment him on his humour - and it was enough to get him off with a warning!!

Ah ah excellent, I love it...

macroman

macroman wrote: »

broken down truck

Ah, I didn't pick up from your initial post that the truck was stopped, I thought you just meant it was going too slow for your liking. In that case it does seem very harsh to be done for the bus lane undertake, but as others have mentioned it was prob the speeding that sealed the deal. It is important to reduce speed significantly when passing any broken down vehicle as there may be someone standing near it on the road either fixing it or calling for help or whatever.

Edit: Just re read your first post there, complete reading fail on my part sorry.

macroman

Del2005 wrote: »

Could you not have waited for the road on the right to clear and overtake correctly? If there was no bus lane that's what you would have had to do.

There was no road on the right

Victor wrote: »

Can we confirm that the truck was broken down and not just stopped? How do you know this? Assuming broken down and a solid median and no traffic (including cyclists) in the bus lane, I imagine it would be hard for the bus lane charges to stand up

Perhaps a bit of research and a letter, with suitable apology to the garda might be useful.

Sorry, did you attempt to evade the Garda for 1.5km or 2-3km?

No, around 2-3km up the road he gave me the blue lights, I acknowledged him and continued to a spot I considered safe (garage). I personally didn't want to endanger myself or him at the roadside.

I assumed the truck was broken down - stationary with an empty road ahead of it.

twowheelsonly wrote: »

Sounds harsh enough all right but the speeding was probably the clincher for the copper.

True Story;
Friend of mine gets pulled over on the Portlaoise bypass, admittedly over the speed limit but also in a line of traffic all at the same speed.

Friend; "But Guard why did you just pull me over when everyone else was doing the same speed?"
Guard; "Well, did you ever go fishing?"
Friend; "I did..""
Guard; " And tell me, did you ever catch ALL the fish....?"

All my buddy could do was laugh and compliment him on his humour - and it was enough to get him off with a warning!!

That's a good way to think of it!

-Chris- wrote: »

In that case I think it's quite unfair that you were done for being in the buslane. The speeding fine should have been enough imho (unless you were driving like a tool, and the speeding/buslane were just a symptom).

That's my point. IMO the speeding fine was enough considering I wasn't the only one using the bus lane due to the obstruction. I wasn't driving like a maniac - I noticed the truck ahead signalled and moved into the bus lane like everyone else. I was also keeping pace with the car ahead.

ant043

Unlucky mate. That was very harsh. But i wouldn't take it any further. That would just give them another chance to screw you over.

macroman

ant043 wrote: »

Unlucky mate. That was very harsh. But i wouldn't take it any further. That would just give them another chance to screw you over.

I won't be. Grin and bear it. After all it's 2 points, just the fines are adding up :rolleyes:

Atomic Pineapple

Victor wrote: »

Can we confirm that the truck was broken down and not just stopped? How do you know this? Assuming broken down and a solid median and no traffic (including cyclists) in the bus lane, I imagine it would be hard for the bus lane charges to stand up

Perhaps a bit of research and a letter, with suitable apology to the garda might be useful.

EDIT: re read first post

Keith186

Far too harsh to give all them fines.

I think they should have just done you for speeding and left it at that.

If you done something to annoy them personally then they'd do you for anything they could so maybe because you drove on to pull in at the garage he got annoyed and threw the proverbial book at you.

I've seen a line of cars pulled in before by gardai for driving in the bus lane when they were just nipping in and out to avoid cars that were turning right. There was a filter lane for right turns there but it only had space for a few cars so they were all backed up into the normal lane and held up traffic that didn't use the bus lane.

I don't think there's any way to get out of it now unless you know a garda who could ask him nicely to reconsider the bus lane fines and give your side of the story again.

macroman

Keith186 wrote: »

Far too harsh to give all them fines.

I think they should have just done you for speeding and left it at that.

If you done something to annoy them personally then they'd do you for anything they could so maybe because you drove on to pull in at the garage he got annoyed and threw the proverbial book at you.

I've seen a line of cars pulled in before by gardai for driving in the bus lane when they were just nipping in and out to avoid cars that were turning right. There was a filter lane for right turns there but it only had space for a few cars so they were all backed up into the normal lane and held up traffic that didn't use the bus lane.

I don't think there's any way to get out of it now unless you know a garda who could ask him nicely to reconsider the bus lane fines and give your side of the story again.

I don't think I annoyed him too much, I explained why I pulled in where I did, I was also courteous and apologetic towards him, he must have just been having a bad day by his attitude. I'll just chalk it up to experience.

ant043

macroman wrote: »

I don't think I annoyed him too much, I explained why I pulled in where I did, I was also courteous and apologetic towards him, he must have just been having a bad day by his attitude. I'll just chalk it up to experience.

Theres always the few Garda acting the big men and look down upon everyone.I could never understand why myself. As you said just accept and move on.

Vertakill

Sounds pretty harsh but you really screwed yourself over with the speeding part.
Did you continue in the bus lane for a while or did you go straight back into the appropriate lane?

Was on my commute one morning in traffic knowing that the bus lane to my left was about to change into a normal lane shortly.
Took a quick peak down the bus lane and pulled back to my normal position.
Biker Garda pulled me over and was going to do me for crossing over the bus lane to look and then crossing over the line again to go back. So double points and fine.

I was in shock and briefly questioned him but he eventually let me go without anything.
It worked just as well though!

Maybe he was just trying to scare the sh1t out of you?

lilka

i probably would just accept it and move on however thats because the hassle of making the complaint, writing a letter etc, would just p*ss me off more...I think your case is very good for only receiving a speeding fine. Just like a continous white line, you cant cross over it in most situations but an exception is when avoiding an obstruction. To back this up, one of the most fundamental rules of driving is to drive reasonably depending on the situation you find yourself in --- because its not possible to describe and have a rule for every possible scenario...it is not reasonable in the situation you have outlined to take any other action than the action you took (perhaps you wait a minute maybe but then you gotta revert to common sense if the obstruction aint moving)--if you make this argument in a calm and polite manner i would expect you would have the fines reversed...especially if you could confirm that the truck was broken down....the alternative is a queue of cars that can never move (illogical)...did you ask the guard how did he/she get past the truck before hunting you down?

macroman

Vertakill wrote: »

Sounds pretty harsh but you really screwed yourself over with the speeding part.
Did you continue in the bus lane for a while or did you go straight back into the appropriate lane?

Was on my commute one morning in traffic knowing that the bus lane to my left was about to change into a normal lane shortly.
Took a quick peak down the bus lane and pulled back to my normal position.
Biker Garda pulled me over and was going to do me for crossing over the bus lane to look and then crossing over the line again to go back. So double points and fine.

I was in shock and briefly questioned him but he eventually let me go without anything.
It worked just as well though!

Maybe he was just trying to scare the sh1t out of you?

I wasn't in it for too long, I only moved in to get around the truck and then back in. I honestly thought I would only get the speeding fine, and tried to talk my way out of the others but he was having none of it. Usually some Guards can be reasonable and use their discretion, but this guy was by the book. I'll chalk it up to experience, not worth the hassle contesting it.

Del2005

TBH there's nothing really to contest. While you had no other options you did speed and drive in a bus lane, logic doesn't enter into most laws. The Garda was a bit harsh though.

Victor

Have you checked the regulations as to what exceptions exist with bus lanes?

cc

agree it seems a bit harsh, but i guess he could of also got you for crossing a solid line into the bus lane

Victor

cc wrote: »

i guess he could of also got you for crossing a solid line into the bus lane

Wrong.

macroman

Well the fines arrived in the post. For starters the Guard lied to me, I was told combined €160 fine and 2 points. Turned out to be €220 fine and 4 points.

Luckily my insurance hasn't gone up. In an online quote between this week and last week it's gone down €101 :eek:

-Chris-

What are the 4 points for?

macroman

2 for the speeding, and 2 for not overtaking on the right.

€80 - speeding
€80 - not overtaking on the right
€60 - using bus lane

Funny thing is there was nowhere to overtake on the right. In future I'll mount the verge to get around broken down trucks :rolleyes:

-Chris-

Hmmm, that's interesting - there was always advice here that, while you could be fined for several offences at once, you could only get penalty points for one offence (whichever carried the most points, I guess).

I wonder if our information here was incorrect, or do you have grounds to contest two of those points...

Viper_JB

If I were in your position I'd pay the speeding fine and contest the rest, you only used your common sense in this case and you're well within your rights to contest it.

djimi

Its in the rules of the road that you can overtake on the left when safe do so if a vehicle is either broken down on the main carraigeway or stopped and signalling to turn right (its worded differently but to that effect). You did nothing wrong overtaking in the bus lane providing you had no other option. I would contest that one.

djimi

-Chris- wrote: »

Hmmm, that's interesting - there was always advice here that, while you could be fined for several offences at once, you could only get penalty points for one offence (whichever carried the most points, I guess).

I wonder if our information here was incorrect, or do you have grounds to contest two of those points...

No Im pretty sure you can get points for every offense, not just one of them. Like if they pull you over for speeding while on your phone and not wearing a seat belt (assuming of couse you dont get arrested and have your car impounded) you would get all 6 points, not just 2.

djimi

djimi wrote: »

No Im pretty sure you can get points for every offense, not just one of them. Like if they pull you over for speeding while on your phone and not wearing a seat belt (assuming of couse you dont get arrested and have your car impounded) you would get all 6 points, not just 2.

No you can only get points for one offence but you will be fined for all offences.

See here http://www.penaltypoints.ie/faq.php

djimi

Heavenly Strong Art wrote: »

No you can only get points for one offence but you will be fined for all offences.

See here http://www.penaltypoints.ie/faq.php

I dont actually see where it says that in there but Ill take your word for it. Seems rather daft to me...

-Chris-

Q. Will I receive penalty points for each person found not wearing a seat belt in a vehicle at any one time?

Scenario: a driver, when stopped by a Garda who detects seat belt offences, could in addition to an offence for non-wearing of a seat belt on his/her part, be liable for several other seat belt offences if for example he/she had several passengers under 17 years who were not wearing the safety belt/child restraints available.

The fixed charge of €60 if paid within 28 days or €90 if paid within further 28 day period would arise in respect of each separate offence but in a single occasion detection of this nature, penalty points would only attach for one offence and not at a rate of 2 points for each of the multiple offences involved. Likewise, if the driver opts to go to court in respect of some or all of the seatbelt offences alleged, he/she would, if convicted in respect of several seat belt offences still just get 4 penalty points on his/her driving licence arising from a single occasion detection.

Back To Top
Q. Will I receive penalty points if there are no seatbelts available in the vehicle to restrain all my children?

The requirement to wear a safety belt or to be restrained by a child restraint shall not apply to a person under 4 years occupying a seat, not being a front seat, of a vehicle in which there is no unoccupied appropriate child restraint.

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Q. What happens if I am stopped and a number of penalty point offences are detected?

Will I receive penalty points for each one? No. Using the scenario from the previous answer it should be borne in mind that the same driver in that scenario could have committed a speeding offence also and have been uninsured. The no-insurance offence is not a fixed charge offence so if convicted in court for driving without insurance and 5 penalty points are imposed then that being the highest number of penalty points attaching to any of the multiple offences involved would be the total number of penalty points endorsed on that drivers licence record on this occasion. The fixed charge for every individual offence, or a fine in court for every individual convicted offence, would apply however.

.

Eoin

djimi wrote: »

Its in the rules of the road that you can overtake on the left when safe do so if a vehicle is either broken down on the main carraigeway or stopped and signalling to turn right (its worded differently but to that effect). You did nothing wrong overtaking in the bus lane providing you had no other option. I would contest that one.

This might be slightly off-topic, but you also have to obey road markings.

Bus lanes typically have a solid white line, with a dashed line at junctions etc. I take that to mean that you should only enter or exit a bus lane when the line is dashed, but other people disagree with me.

Cuddlesworth

I got the impression from the penalty points faq that you couldn't receive multiple points for the same offense at one go ie; a number of seat belts not done. I don't see where it implies you can't be done on a number of different offenses as long as the description is different.

Cookie_Monster

eoin wrote: »

This might be slightly off-topic, but you also have to obey road markings.

Bus lanes typically have a solid white line, with a dashed line at junctions etc. I take that to mean that you should only enter or exit a bus lane when the line is dashed, but other people disagree with me.

except for access or in emergencies. This sounds like it is cover by the for access bit as the driving lane was blocked

-Chris-

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

I got the impression from the penalty points faq that you couldn't receive multiple points for the same offense at one go ie; a number of seat belts not done. I don't see where it implies you can't be done on a number of different offenses as long as the description is different.

in a single occasion detection of this nature, penalty points would only attach for one offence and not at a rate of 2 points for each of the multiple offences involved

The single occasion detection bit is what I'd think of.

In this case the OP had a single occasion detection (only pulled over once) for many offences.

Where's niceguyalways when you need him...

Average-Ro

Sounds to me like you have solid grounds to contest this OP; I think you should, it all adds up and if you can get the fine and points reduced, all the better.

spatchco

well judging by some of the replyies you have received,you should be still sitting behind the truck or whatever obstruction was on the road,in other words you should not use your initiative,you were unlucky.::mad:

-Chris-

spatchco wrote: »

well judging by some of the replyies you have received,you should be still sitting behind the truck or whatever obstruction was on the road,in other words you should not use your initiative,you were unlucky.::mad:

Who said that? It seemed to me that there was quite a bit of support & understanding for the OP rather than the usual high-horsery...

macroman

I paid them this afternoon as soon as I got them. Woman in the post office was shocked that I had so many fines in one stop.

It's not worth contesting, after all it's my word against his. Who would the courts believe? I have no witness, no proof, or anything.

Del2005

macroman wrote: »

Luckily my insurance hasn't gone up. In an online quote between this week and last week it's gone down €101 :eek:

You don't have any penalty points yet.

You'll get a letter in the post informing you when you get them, as it's 3 years from the date on the letter not the offence, you will need to inform your insurance company then.

lynchie

-Chris- wrote: »

Hmmm, that's interesting - there was always advice here that, while you could be fined for several offences at once, you could only get penalty points for one offence (whichever carried the most points, I guess).

I wonder if our information here was incorrect, or do you have grounds to contest two of those points...

Correct Chris.

RTA 2002, Section 2

IrishStatuebook.ie wrote:

(3) (a) Where a person, whether on the same occasion or not—


(i) makes 2 or more payments referred to in subsection (1) in respect of alleged penalty point offences committed on the same occasion, or


(ii) is convicted of 2 or more penalty point offences committed on the same occasion,


penalty points in respect of one only of the alleged offences or offences, determined, where appropriate, in accordance with subsection (4), shall be endorsed on the entry relating to the person.


(b) Where a person, whether on the same occasion or not, makes one or more payments referred to in subsection (1) and is convicted of one or more penalty point offences and the alleged penalty point offences concerned and the penalty point offences were committed on the same occasion, penalty points in respect only of any one of the alleged offences and offences, determined in accordance with subsection (4), shall be endorsed on the entry relating to the person.

OP should only have 2 points applied to their licence record

macroman

Notice from RSA came in the door this morning, 2 points applied to my record in respect of the Overtaking offence.

My Dad also got one too...saying his points have been taken off his record :rolleyes:

Thanks for the advice lads