IRL Clan - General Thread

TheMooseInNam

hobochris wrote: »

I'm not sure sure about others here, but come OCT 22 all my free time will be stolen by fallout: new vegas. Fallout 3 was a black hole for many hours of my life.

yeah, I lost a lot of time on Fallout 3 too... my biggest fear is if they bring out another Oblivion :eek:

Edit: Seems like Elder Srolls V is due out in 2011... oh dear....

I use the name izambard here also.

TheMooseInNam wrote: »

Been giving this some thought for the last few hours coffees...I believe it's only a natural progression of the gaming industry to merge with Hollywood more and more over the coming years. In the not-too-distant future, I see games and movies merging into a seemless enity where the viewer will take a far more active role within the movies they are watching. That is eventually where I see the story-mode type game evolving into something far more than just a videogame but a fully immersive media experience...

Great point overall Moose but I'd like to comment on the portion I've quoted above in relation to movies and games merging. This to me is a broken idea and concept that should not be furthered. My evidence for this being the truly awful PlayStation 3 game 'Heavy Rain'.

Critics fawned over this game on release, the main reason being, it was an interactive movie. Movies however by their nature have to be linear and cannot be interactive. A story is being told. A story has a start, middle and an end. Good and bad movies are then differentiated by the ability to tell this story effectively and entertainingly. To introduce viewer/gamer participation to the final product is therefore in direct conflict to this process. A movie is effectively one person's vision on how to tell a story. Through this, art is achieved.

Games on the other hand by their there very nature are interactive. Although containing stories, the most important aspect of any game is how one interacts with the world they are presented with. Good and bad games are then differentiated by the game mechanic's ability to let one interact with this world effectively and entertainingly. Through this, art is achieved.

Heavy Rain is first and foremost a movie. It has a (bad) story that has to be told. You the player have only minimal input to further this story. Your involvement is trivialised to nothing more than furthering a story. Actual game play is marginalised for this to be achieved. There is no player progression or development through involvement.

Conversely for example, Red Dead Redemption is first and foremost a game. It has a (typical western) story that wants to be told. The overall story whilst always apparent is not the driving force. Interaction with the world that is presented through the game mechanic is. Player progression and development are achieved through game play.

Movies and games in my opinion whist sharing certain traits are totally incapable of merging in a way that you envisage. To merge these different mediums fundamentally alters what makes each an art form in their own right.

shoveltooth

I use the name izambard here also. wrote: »

Great point overall Moose but I'd like to comment on the portion I've quoted above in relation to movies and games merging. This to me is a broken idea and concept that should not be furthered. My evidence for this being the truly awful PlayStation 3 game 'Heavy Rain'.

Critics fawned over this game on release, the main reason being, it was an interactive movie. Movies however by their nature have to be linear and cannot be interactive. A story is being told. A story has a start, middle and an end. Good and bad movies are then differentiated by the ability to tell this story effectively and entertainingly. To introduce viewer/gamer participation to the final product is therefore in direct conflict to this process. A movie is effectively one person's vision on how to tell a story. Through this, art is achieved.

Games on the other hand by their there very nature are interactive. Although containing stories, the most important aspect of any game is how one interacts with the world they are presented with. Good and bad games are then differentiated by the game mechanic's ability to let one interact with this world effectively and entertainingly. Through this, art is achieved.

Heavy Rain is first and foremost a movie. It has a (bad) story that has to be told. You the player have only minimal input to further this story. Your involvement is trivialised to nothing more than furthering a story. Actual game play is marginalised for this to be achieved. There is no player progression or development through involvement.

Conversely for example, Red Dead Redemption is first and foremost a game. It has a (typical western) story that wants to be told. The overall story whilst always apparent is not the driving force. Interaction with the world that is presented through the game mechanic is. Player progression and development are achieved through game play.

Movies and games in my opinion whist sharing certain traits are totally incapable of merging in a way that you envisage. To merge these different mediums fundamentally alters what makes each an art form in their own right.

To summarize your point for Garv
games≠ movies and vice versa

TheMooseInNam

I use the name izambard here also. wrote: »

Movies and games in my opinion whist sharing certain traits are totally incapable of merging in a way that you envisage. To merge these different mediums fundamentally alters what makes each an art form in their own right.

You are assuming that this merge of games and movies will replace the existing mediums. I don't think that will ever happen. I believe the evolution of games will bring them to a fully immersive media experience, this will also include the likes of kinect-type mtion sensors, with an interactive game element, all wrapped around a broader storyline. When perfected, I think this will be an entirely new "art" medium.

Just because Heavy Rain wasn't a particularly good or successfull, I think it would be very narrowed minded to assume they would get it right the first time. That would be like saying back in 1980, this ping pong game sucks ass, let's forget this whole console idea!

This concept of merging the mediums is only in it's infancy. It's barely more than an idea and the realm of possiblities is endless as technology advances. It's a stepping stone towards fully interactive virtual worlds.

FOR GARV: Movies and games will always exist, what I'm talking about is a brand new media concept that will borrow from both. This isn't going to happen in the next couple of years, I'm talking about the not too distant future, perhaps 10-15 years.

I use the name izambard here also.

TheMooseInNam wrote: »

You are assuming that this merge of games and movies will replace the existing mediums.

Not at all, I'm in agreement that they are two separate and distinct entities and should remain such and never merge.

TheMooseInNam wrote: »

I believe the evolution of games will bring them to a fully immersive media experience, this will also include the likes of kinect-type mtion sensors, with an interactive game element, all wrapped around a broader storyline. When perfected, I think this will be an entirely new "art" medium.

This basically is true virtual reality. Do we want/need this? This is more of of a philosophical question; but to the extent escapism from the perceived mundane of 'real life' is found through online avatars in mmorpgs, would giving people a true 'second life' experience be a detriment to society? But that is a debate for another day.

TheMooseInNam wrote: »

Just because Heavy Rain wasn't a particularly good or successfull, I think it would be very narrowed minded to assume they would get it right the first time. That would be like saying back in 1980, this ping pong game sucks ass, let's forget this whole console idea!

On the contrary, Heavy Rain was met with widespread acclaim and sold very well. It is my opinion that it is fundamentally broken as a 'game'. The problem I envisage is that because it was so successful more and more of these types of games will be released. This to me is a bad thing. They are nothing more than those books we had as children where you could make limited choices to determine the final outcome.

TheMooseInNam wrote: »

This concept of merging the mediums is only in it's infancy. It's barely more than an idea and the realm of possiblities is endless as technology advances. It's a stepping stone towards fully interactive virtual worlds.

Heavy Rain is a poor movie (again in my opinion) masquerading as a game. This is what now, today, has been viewed as the template to successfully merge games and movies. They will be releasing it again so one can play it with the PlayStation Move. Now you won't have to press x to open a door, you can make the motion of opening a door and guess what, the door will open. Is this really what we want from technological advances in gaming. Stepping stone yes, but a stepping stone in the wrong direction, in my opinion. I'm no Luddite but this is technology for technology sake. You used the term 'an interactive game element'. We have things with an interactive game element already, they are called games but the interaction part is not an element it is their premises. When the concept of an interactive game element is introduced to these games we get Heavy Rain. I implore anyone to play this game and if you refer to it as a game afterwards, I will be truly surprised.

I understand you Moose completely in what you state, virtual reality in the truest sense will one day be widely available (well that all depends on how much oil is left) and gaming will embrace it. What I'm saying and it was the point of my original post, is that an interactive movie is a terrible idea. Movies need a definite narritive. Trying to shoehorn interactive elements into movies completely lessens their impact.

For garv, if we do get virtual reality in the way we are discussing, porn will never be the same again!

dunworth1

TheMooseInNam wrote: »

This game fell off my radar a few months ago. Just read this article on Joystiq and it's definitely back on the radar. Up to 32 players online against each other in a modern FPS with vehicles... yes please!!!

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/10/06/homefront-multiplayer-preview-funding-the-war-machine/

that looks amazing

hobochris

TheMooseInNam wrote: »

yeah, I lost a lot of time on Fallout 3 too... my biggest fear is if they bring out another Oblivion :eek:

Edit: Seems like Elder Srolls V is due out in 2011... oh dear....

I tried but I never got into oblivion.

You need something with gun's and 'plosions to hold my attention.

TheMooseInNam

Bare with me guys but I'm about to put my geek head on! Edit: For those that don't want to read the whole thing, Garv, just read the last paragraph!

I've been playing with my DNS settings on my router this evening and found that if I changed the DNS server from my ISP's recommended one to a public DNS (I found google the best), it reroutes my traffic and reduced my ping from 60-70ms down to 37-43ms!

I'm still experimenting with it but the results are pretty impressive, so far...

Does anyone know much about this kind of stuff?

EDIT: Ok, I just went into a deathmatch to try out the new settings. First of all, I will fully admit that there's probably a placebo effect. However, while playing on a random server, I genuinely felt the game reacted better. I felt for a while and especially this afternoon that my bullets just weren't hitting the targets. I just scored 35 kills in a deathmatch on Isla, with 20 deaths (mostly by rpg's and the tank). I genuinely felt that my bullets hit more accurately and I generally didn't have to fire a second burst from the M416.

I have a feeling that the change of the DNS server has steadied my ping times and is giving me a more stable connection with more accurate information being passed to and from the server.

It seems like it comes down to whether or not your Internet Service Provider has optimised their DNS server for use with online games. It's easy to check out. Just go into your routers settings and enter a Public DNS server instead of their own one. I'll give Googles DNS server at the bottom. Then do a ping test on www.pingtest.net and compare it to what you had before. If it's better, then put those DNS settings into your network connection on your xbox too.
Google Primary DNS = 8.8.8.8
Google Secondary DNS = 8.8.4.4

garv123

TheMooseInNam wrote: »

Bare with me guys but I'm about to put my geek head on! Edit: For those that don't want to read the whole thing, Garv, just read the last paragraph!

I've been playing with my DNS settings on my router this evening and found that if I changed the DNS server from my ISP's recommended one to a public DNS (I found google the best), it reroutes my traffic and reduced my ping from 60-70ms down to 37-43ms!

I'm still experimenting with it but the results are pretty impressive, so far...

Does anyone know much about this kind of stuff?

EDIT: Ok, I just went into a deathmatch to try out the new settings. First of all, I will fully admit that there's probably a placebo effect. However, while playing on a random server, I genuinely felt the game reacted better. I felt for a while and especially this afternoon that my bullets just weren't hitting the targets. I just scored 35 kills in a deathmatch on Isla, with 20 deaths (mostly by rpg's and the tank). I genuinely felt that my bullets hit more accurately and I generally didn't have to fire a second burst from the M416.

I have a feeling that the change of the DNS server has steadied my ping times and is giving me a more stable connection with more accurate information being passed to and from the server.

It seems like it comes down to whether or not your Internet Service Provider has optimised their DNS server for use with online games. It's easy to check out. Just go into your routers settings and enter a Public DNS server instead of their own one. I'll give Googles DNS server at the bottom. Then do a ping test on www.pingtest.net and compare it to what you had before. If it's better, then put those DNS settings into your network connection on your xbox too.
Google Primary DNS = 8.8.8.8
Google Secondary DNS = 8.8.4.4

:eek::eek::eek:

cycocycle

garv123

i'd 4oD open the first time


soooooo wa does da mean anyway, thats just the results without doing anything

naughto

1st test

2nd test

3rd test

I use the name izambard here also.

The Open DNS offered by google* did reduce my ping, but I'm now more concerned with packet loss. Any ideas Moose or anyone else for that matter on how to sort this out?

*I don't like the idea however that a company like google would be able to observe everything I look at on the internet!

shoveltooth

TheMooseInNam

Ok, all your connections are very good. Perhaps Garv's jitter is a bit high but that could just be a one off. Mine has even improved more tonight, earlier I was getting around 41ms for ping and 16ms for jitter.



Try changing the settings, your results might improve or they might not. They're all perfectly fine as they are but if they improve even more, what harm.

I use the name izambard here also.

TheMooseInNam wrote: »

Ok, all your connections are very good...

I think you may have missed mine! F, I've never gotten an F for anything!

TheMooseInNam

I use the name izambard here also. wrote: »

The Open DNS offered by google* did reduce my ping, but I'm now more concerned with packet loss. Any ideas Moose or anyone else for that matter on how to sort this out?

*I don't like the idea however that a company like google would be able to observe everything I look at on the internet!

Yeah, that packet loss is pretty high. Try it again and see if it keeps happening. There are other public DNS servers you can try. As for Google seeing everything you browse. They are probably more governed than most ISP's, definitely the smaller companies anyway.

Try this link for a list: http://pcsplace.com/tech-list/5-best-and-free-fast-public-dns-servers/

cycocycle

Anyone ever tried this out?
http://360voice.gamerdna.com/

I use the name izambard here also.

TheMooseInNam wrote: »

Yeah, that packet loss is pretty high. Try it again and see if it keeps happening. There are other public DNS servers you can try. As for Google seeing everything you browse. They are probably more governed than most ISP's, definitely the smaller companies anyway.

Try this link for a list: http://pcsplace.com/tech-list/5-best-and-free-fast-public-dns-servers/

Packet loss continues to be high. Strange. I will never trust google. The amount of information they collate from using their services is frightening and now that they're altering their position on net neutrality they can be seen for what they truly are.

shoveltooth

cycocycle wrote: »

Anyone ever tried this out?
http://360voice.gamerdna.com/

Beat cableguy in a gamerscore challenge set up on the site. His xbox did rrod halfway though

TheMooseInNam

I use the name izambard here also. wrote: »

Packet loss continues to be high. Strange. I will never trust google. The amount of information they collate from using their services is frightening and now that they're altering their position on net neutrality they can be seen for what they truly are.

The packet loss continues to be high on all the different DNS servers? Can you confirm this for me, just so as I know.

How is it with the original UPC server?

Are you checking it on a laptop through wifi or connected directly to the router? Are there other pc's or devices using the connection while your checking the ping? How far away from your local exchange are you?

I use the name izambard here also.

TheMooseInNam wrote: »

The packet loss continues to be high on all the different DNS servers? Can you confirm this for me, just so as I know.

How is it with the original UPC server?

Are you checking it on a laptop through wifi or connected directly to the router? Are there other pc's or devices using the connection while your checking the ping? How far away from your local exchange are you?

All severs yes! Using a laptop but for the tests I connected directly to the router. Nothing else sharing the connection. There must be something wrong on my service providers end because I'm only getting upload speeds of between 0.01 and 0.1 mbps! That cannot be right!

TheMooseInNam

I use the name izambard here also. wrote: »

All severs yes! Using a laptop but for the tests I connected directly to the router. Nothing else sharing the connection. There must be something wrong on my service providers end because I'm only getting upload speeds of between 0.01 and 0.1 mbps! That cannot be right!

Try a speed test using www.irishisptest.net, think that's the address. See what results you get on there. If it's the same then definitely call your ISP and have all those tests ready to email them. They are in breach of contract if their service drops below the minimum contention ratio.

cableguy.ie

cycocycle wrote: »

Anyone ever tried this out?
http://360voice.gamerdna.com/

The only thing is that I could never really get away from online play at the time of one of the contest it was BC2 and at the time of the last one it was MW2 as well as that the people in the compo shoveltooth is talking about scored stupid points they were playing avatar and other games like that in fact one day not long after the start someone jumped up loads of points and I didn't see the point of playing on had no chance and not enough time to catch up.

TheMooseInNam

shoveltooth wrote: »

Guess who sold their soul to the Devil :D:D

garv123

this is done now at 12:00 with most of the apartments half empty.
thats the router results done with my laptop but ive the xbox directly into the wall with a cable and heres the results when i plugged the laptop in instead of the xbox

dunworth1

I use the name izambard here also. wrote: »

The Open DNS offered by google* did reduce my ping, but I'm now more concerned with packet loss. Any ideas Moose or anyone else for that matter on how to sort this out?

*I don't like the idea however that a company like google would be able to observe everything I look at on the internet!

ok quick question for you which setup from upc do you have

modem (sientific atlanta) and wireless router (netgear) (seprate)

or

modem with built in wireless (cisco)

naughto

cableguy.ie wrote: »

The only thing is that I could never really get away from online play at the time of one of the contest it was BC2 and at the time of the last one it was MW2 as well as that the people in the compo shoveltooth is talking about scored stupid points they were playing avatar and other games like that in fact one day not long after the start someone jumped up loads of points and I didn't see the point of playing on had no chance and not enough time to catch up.

are u on this i signed up to it

shoveltooth

shoveltooth wrote: »

TheMooseInNam wrote: »

Guess who sold their soul to the Devil :D:D

Maybe.. dublin server distance seems to be less than 50 miles away from galway city while the galway server is 100 miles away

I use the name izambard here also.

dunworth1 wrote: »

ok quick question for you which setup from upc do you have

modem (sientific atlanta) and wireless router (netgear) (seprate)

or

modem with built in wireless (cisco)

The cisco modem with built in wireless. I'm a complete novice when it comes to modem and router set ups. I can log into my modem/router but as for altering the settings I'm clueless.