Have I reasonable expectations? & difference between OCR3 and TCR alliance

irlforum

Hi,
I was thinking of picking up a new bike but I'm unsure.

I'm a real ectomorph with limited muscles in my legs - basically I look like a disaster in biking clothes. Never the less I'd like to be on a bike but I do want to build myself up.

I'm going to talk to my doctor in the the next few days about a referral to a diet doctor or nutritionist to get all my food in order - I really want to build myself up and the only way I can think to do this is via bodybuilding.

Someone told me before that bodybuilding and biking don't go well together but I don't plan on doing a serious amount of cycling either just a nice general fitness would be great.

I had a Giant OCR3 a year or two ago and it was large size. I rememeber I had the seat and everything set properly but I think the handlebars were abit too far back. Isn't there a think where you put your arm horizonally from the saddle to the bars and it should be the same length - well mine was alot longer.

I like Giant bikes though and the look and design of the bike would be very important - I love the TCR alliance but would I be mad to spend that much starting out again when I quit the last time? I also thought the OCR3 got very uncomftable after being on it a while.

I suppose what I'm looking for is advice regarding combining cycling and bodybuilding and if it's possible at all really. Rememeber that I already find eating difficult due to being an ectomorph.

petethedrummer

Start cycling up mountains and you'll be grateful for your skinny physique. Most people are trying to lose weight on this forum! http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055772777

Lumen

Do you look like this?

If so, you can either be the worlds most unsuccessful bodybuilder or a fairly handy cyclist. Time to choose.

It's not that weight is particular handicap on a bike, but well developed musculature is not much of a benefit.

iregk

Ah good aul Rasmussen. To be fair I recall he had an argument a few years back with his mechanic about the number of un-necessary stickers and paint on the bike claiming they added extra weight that wasn't required.

irlforum

Lumen wrote: »

Do you look like this?

If so, you can either be the worlds most unsuccessful bodybuilder or a fairly handy cyclist. Time to choose.

It's not that weight is particular handicap on a bike, but well developed musculature is not much of a benefit.

I'm not actually as skinny as that no. I have to say though I think Rasmussen's skinniness actually suits him ok in that he is not that tall and his geometry is nicely balanced - interested in others opinions on this?

Whereas my geometry is a little different I think. I'm tall - over 6ft but have only a 32cm waist. I've long legs etc. which make me look skinnier.

Lumen

irlforum wrote: »

I'm not actually as skinny as that no. I have to say though I think Rasmussen's skinniness actually suits him ok in that he is not that tall and his geometry is nicely balanced - interested in others opinions on this?

I think you should worry less about what your body looks like and more about what it can do.

Your OP is a bit random - you're combining questions about body shape, bike choice, nutrition, cycling and bodybuilding.

Cycle lots, eat lots, get fit, feel good.

hynesie

irlforum wrote: »

but have only a 32cm waist

I hope you mean 32inch waist

irlforum

hynesie wrote: »

I hope you mean 32inch waist

Haha. Yes inches.

sweetswing

in order to build up you have to bust your ass in the gym , and you have to eat and eat and eat and eat some more (google the gomad diet)
its very hard to build lean muscle without excess fat , it can be done but its slow and hard going.
so i would suggest you hit the gym, hit the gomad diet ,and when your ready to trim the fat hit the hills on the bike that should do it:D
there is no easy way to fitness and a good body, hard work and comitment is what gets the job done.
best of luck man

irlforum

Lumen wrote: »

I think you should worry less about what your body looks like and more about what it can do.

Your OP is a bit random - you're combining questions about body shape, bike choice, nutrition, cycling and bodybuilding.

Cycle lots, eat lots, get fit, feel good.

Yeah it is abit random but that is just the situation I'm in at the moment and I'm hoping for more experienced people to help or provide direction. I'm not really interested in winning the tour de france or anything - just a combination of cycling and working on building my strength and muscle abit.

Your right about worrying less about what I look like - I really wish I could do this and now I might try again because I would like to be out on a bike.

sweetswing wrote: »

in order to build up you have to bust your ass in the gym , and you have to eat and eat and eat and eat some more (google the gomad diet)
its very hard to build lean muscle without excess fat , it can be done but its slow and hard going.
so i would suggest you hit the gym, hit the gomad diet ,and when your ready to trim the fat hit the hills on the bike that should do it:D
there is no easy way to fitness and a good body, hard work and comitment is what gets the job done.
best of luck man

Thanks. I did actually try the gomad diet before but after reading about it there again maybe the mistake I made was that I laid into alot of milk straight away and after 2 or 3 weeks I began to get pains in my stomach and had to stop completely. I might start abit slower next time and see how I feel as I raise intake gradually.

Does anyone have any tips on how to stay focused and committed when you lose interest completely or are going through a rough period? I know this will crop up and it makes me anxious about spending money on a bike etc. I think it's a case that 700 euro or so for a bike will only buy an ok bike isn't it? Like buying a cheap car? I didn't find my old OCR3 that comfortable after being on it for a whie and also the fitting only coming in small medium and large wasn't that suitable. I choose large but I don't think it was 100%.

Gavin

Love your body man. Just go cycling, people will respect your chicken legs if you rocket past them up the hills.

edit - The trick to motivation, if you have poor self-discipline, like me, is to have other people relying on you. So join a club or arrange to meet up with mates/people from here to go for a cycle. You won't want to get out of the house, but you'll feel obliged and by the time you're out the door, you'll be happy.

Lumen

irlforum wrote: »

Does anyone have any tips on how to stay focused and committed when you lose interest completely or are going through a rough period?

Focus and commitment is not needed if you're enjoying your cycling. It is supposed to be fun.

sweetswing

make a plan and stick to it . the more you train the better you will feel, and so the more you will train, some days you will feel like crap, i find these are the days when you will be delighted with yourself for getting of your ass and going training.
do your research and learn how to train and what to eat.
it all depends how much you want it, there are no short cuts .
but remember training is fun, youll feel better ,and look better ,and be fitter.
dont wait around , start now do it today .

cdaly_

irlforum wrote: »

I think it's a case that 700 euro or so for a bike will only buy an ok bike isn't it? Like buying a cheap car?

No, €700 will get you a pretty reasonable bike. You can spend a lot more on really good bikes and up to around €2000 you'll see some improvements but the €700 bike will do just fine.

The cheap car equivalent in a road bike is the halfords special for €250-€300...

irlforum

cdaly_ wrote: »

No, €700 will get you a pretty reasonable bike. You can spend a lot more on really good bikes and up to around €2000 you'll see some improvements but the €700 bike will do just fine.

The cheap car equivalent in a road bike is the halfords special for €250-€300...

Oh ya I didn't think about the ones in Halfords and the like.

So between a TCR alliance (about 1700) and a bike that's about 700 my understanding is that the main differences will be brakes, gears and weight?

I doubt weight would make that much of a difference to me and the gears and brakes just make everything a little nicer and smoother is it?

Is it the frame material that's the main thing. ie. the more expensive frames are alof smoother or something?

Basically I would really like a bike with straight front forks (don't really like the curved ones). Would like to have better gears than the soras but only because the shifters are in better positions. Other than that I have no experience with the better gear systems.

From this list here I really like the first bike - the red cube, the giant tcr alliance...the rest are too expensive. http://cyclesuperstore.ie/shop/pc/bikeadvisor.asp#

I suppose this bike isn't too bad actually and has tiagra gears. Not that keen on the colour scheme though. http://cyclesuperstore.ie/shop/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=35&idproduct=31175

Lumen

Also consider Boardman Team and Boardman Team Carbon from Halfords. They have "10 speed" SRAM drivetrains (20 actual gears), quality stuff.

kennyb3

Lumen wrote: »

Boardman Team Carbon from Halfords. They have "10 speed" SRAM drivetrains (20 actual gears), quality stuff.

Hypotetically, if you were to get this Lumen, what upgrades would you make to use it for racing ( kind of flirting with the idea of getting a new bike)?

- the wheels obviously, anything else?

Lumen

kennyb3 wrote: »

what upgrades would you make to use it for racing ( kind of flirting with the idea of getting a new bike)?

- the wheels obviously, anything else?

Clipless pedals and shoes, bottle cage, water bottle, maybe a bike computer.

Wheels don't make us faster.

thebouldwhacker

when you say you are an ectomorph is this descriptive of your physique or a medical classification? As in do you have bone density issues or are you just a long drink of water? (I'm 6'3"/ 34" waist so not name calling;))

irlforum

thebouldwhacker wrote: »

when you say you are an ectomorph is this descriptive of your physique or a medical classification? As in do you have bone density issues or are you just a long drink of water? (I'm 6'3"/ 34" waist so not name calling;))

Just descriptive of my physique. Never been offically called an ectomorph by a medical professional.

Two inches extra on the waist is alot I'd say...I'm probably 6'3" aswell.

I think it would make a massive difference to me if I could add an extra 1 or 2 inches to my waist area via muscle and also to define my legs much more - while my leg muscles are actually sizeable enough compared to some lads I know I've long limbs and am tall.

Actually can you explain what you mean by "long drink of water". Don't really get that!

irlforum

Lumen wrote: »

Also consider Boardman Team and Boardman Team Carbon from Halfords. They have "10 speed" SRAM drivetrains (20 actual gears), quality stuff.

I'm not sure if your joking or serious here...

Lumen

irlforum wrote: »

I'm not sure if your joking or serious here...

I'm serious.

irlforum

Lumen wrote: »

I'm serious.

Aaaah ok - after checking Halfords website. I thought they only sold bikes like toy shops sold for in or around 2 or 3 hundred euro.

Bluefoam

I was shown a boardman carbon jobbie by one of the staff in Helfrauds & there was a rectangular patch of carbon welded(?) into the top tube. He said he had noticed a few like that & it shouldn't be there as its supposedly a monocoque frame...

Lumen

Bluefoam wrote: »

I was shown a boardman carbon jobbie by one of the staff in Helfrauds & there was a rectangular patch of carbon welded(?) into the top tube. He said he had noticed a few like that & it shouldn't be there as its supposedly a monocoque frame...

It is just possible that the staff member knew what he was talking about, but here's the finish on a perfectly normal Cervelo that might look "welded" to the untrained eye.

I have read accounts of poor quality control on some of the boardmans, but no case where is hasn't been resolved satisfactorily.

Bluefoam

Lumen wrote: »

here's the finish on a perfectly normal Cervelo that might look "welded" to the untrained eye.

Similar alright, but mid tube - is that okay?

Lumen

Bluefoam wrote: »

Similar alright, but mid tube - is that okay?

No idea, but lightweight carbon frames generally don't look very pretty - you can wrap the tubes in a cosmetic finish but it makes them heavier.

spurscormac

irlforum wrote: »

Just descriptive of my physique. Never been offically called an ectomorph by a medical professional.

Two inches extra on the waist is alot I'd say...I'm probably 6'3" aswell.

I think it would make a massive difference to me if I could add an extra 1 or 2 inches to my waist area via muscle and also to define my legs much more - while my leg muscles are actually sizeable enough compared to some lads I know I've long limbs and am tall.

Actually can you explain what you mean by "long drink of water". Don't really get that!

Are you Peter Crouch in disguise ?

irlforum

spurscormac wrote: »

Are you Peter Crouch in disguise ?

No thank god I'm not that tall but I'd say I'd be similar enough to him just about 5 inches shorter.

I know you didn't mean harm but this is a genuine self esteem issue for me. It's really important for me to sort it tbh. Any support appreciated.

Do you think that Peter Crouch would be able to change his characteristics much if he really tried in the gym?


Someone earlier added a good post and at the end he said "start today". So I have decided that I am going to and have been researching getting a good chefs knife, sharpener and board. It's something I've wanted for a while and it will make the cooking process a little more interesting for me. I need to start eating different recipes and stuff. I will also start the diet of milk. I plan also to talk to my doctor about this so I know I'm giving myself the nutrients I need and stuff.

The only problem is I will get demotivated very easily when I don't see much progress. I did the massive eating thing before and put on a full stone but you wouldn't have been able to tell really muscle wise though I was the only observant. I had a little bit of a chin and belly though not much (according to family).

Lumen

irlforum wrote: »

this is a genuine self esteem issue for me. It's really important for me to sort it tbh. Any support appreciated.

Just go with your natural strengths and become a decent cyclist.

Do you think professional cyclists stand in front of the mirror pondering whether their twig arms are attractive or not?

Here's Tom Boonen, not worrying about it.

kennyb3

I only see one person in that picture:)

spurscormac

irlforum wrote: »

No thank god I'm not that tall but I'd say I'd be similar enough to him just about 5 inches shorter.

I know you didn't mean harm but this is a genuine self esteem issue for me. It's really important for me to sort it tbh. Any support appreciated.

Do you think that Peter Crouch would be able to change his characteristics much if he really tried in the gym?


Someone earlier added a good post and at the end he said "start today". So I have decided that I am going to and have been researching getting a good chefs knife, sharpener and board. It's something I've wanted for a while and it will make the cooking process a little more interesting for me. I need to start eating different recipes and stuff. I will also start the diet of milk. I plan also to talk to my doctor about this so I know I'm giving myself the nutrients I need and stuff.

The only problem is I will get demotivated very easily when I don't see much progress. I did the massive eating thing before and put on a full stone but you wouldn't have been able to tell really muscle wise though I was the only observant. I had a little bit of a chin and belly though not much (according to family).

I didn't mean any harm, and would strongly encourage you in what you're trying to do.
Here's a thought, I've heard it said that people who are quite thin are often fidgity - by this i mean, that they are constantly moving and thus burning all the energy they take in. Try and think whether there's anything you do by habit while working, sitting at the PC or watching TV that could be doing this.
Also, while I'm by no means a professional dietitian, I'd say trying the opposite of what I'm trying to do (attempting to cut the crap food) may help you put on the pounds, ie don't try cutting out the crisps/choc/desserts, just embrace them.
While that may help with the weight, it mightn't help with the muscle - maybe the fitness forum would be a place to get good advice on the weights side.

Best of luck with it

Lumen

irlforum wrote: »

Someone earlier added a good post and at the end he said "start today". So I have decided that I am going to and have been researching getting a good chefs knife, sharpener and board. It's something I've wanted for a while and it will make the cooking process a little more interesting for me. I need to start eating different recipes and stuff. I will also start the diet of milk. I plan also to talk to my doctor about this so I know I'm giving myself the nutrients I need and stuff.

The only problem is I will get demotivated very easily when I don't see much progress. I did the massive eating thing before and put on a full stone but you wouldn't have been able to tell really muscle wise though I was the only observant. I had a little bit of a chin and belly though not much (according to family).

Stop fussing about the food and get yourself fit, that's the only way to increase lean mass.

If you eat more than you burn you'll end up looking like a middle aged Belgian camper - twig arms and a pot belly (no offence meant to Belgians).

Gavin

irlforum

Gavin wrote: »

?? What does this mean?

Lumen

irlforum wrote: »

?? What does this mean?

Hercule Poirot. He's Belgian.

petethedrummer

If you try to fight how your body naturally looks you're gonna be in for alot of hardship. You're going to have to over eat and pump iron for ever to maintain this physique you're looking for and you said you have problems eating lots of food and staying focused. So why not save yourself some disappointment and explore avenues where you already have a natural advantage.

Gavin

irlforum wrote: »

?? What does this mean?

Good god.

irlforum

petethedrummer wrote: »

If you try to fight how your body naturally looks you're gonna be in for alot of hardship. You're going to have to over eat and pump iron for ever to maintain this physique you're looking for and you said you have problems eating lots of food and staying focused. So why not save yourself some disappointment and explore avenues where you already have a natural advantage.

What your saying is the most mature way of looking at things and logical. I will try it but I can't imagine it being that easy to change my self esteem and mind...I've always been like this....probably since primary school where I was maybe "bullied" :eek:

alfalad

OK my two cent. Clearly this does mean a lot to the guy, and it's something they want to change badly. So here is my advice not that I am qualified in any way, firstly speak to the right people, like a dietitian, personal trainer and a doctor there help will be valuable. When I say a personal trainer I mean a very could one who really knows what they are talking about.

On the training itself, it will take time, it's not an overnight process so as mentioned a club or group maybe a good place to start to keep the motivation. You also need to build up the weights you can lift so don't hit the gym and go for the heaviest weight you can find as this will lead to injury, start low and build up by increasing the weight and reducing the reps, fitness trainer will give good advice on this. When training make sure to do plenty of core work, stretching and back exercises, as the back often give trouble to tall people.

On the food side, don't just eat crap that won't do you any good and will put on on fat and that is not what you want, you want muscle. I'm not a believer in these radical diets cause it's not something you can keep up long term I feel (just my view) but you clearly expressed an interest cooking and this is a good start, try increasing the amount of protein in the diet and "natural" fats, by putting some extra butter in your mashed potatoes, eating bigger pieces of meat extra. You need to keep a balanced diet though so just a bit more of everything.

Lastly rest, this is key as it's when the muscles grow and repair. Give yourself down time to recover properly.

Best of luck and don't be afraid to seek help from qualified people on different areas you mention. The change will come it will just take time.

irlforum

alfalad wrote: »

OK my two cent. Clearly this does mean a lot to the guy, and it's something they want to change badly. So here is my advice not that I am qualified in any way, firstly speak to the right people, like a dietitian, personal trainer and a doctor there help will be valuable. When I say a personal trainer I mean a very could one who really knows what they are talking about.

On the training itself, it will take time, it's not an overnight process so as mentioned a club or group maybe a good place to start to keep the motivation. You also need to build up the weights you can lift so don't hit the gym and go for the heaviest weight you can find as this will lead to injury, start low and build up by increasing the weight and reducing the reps, fitness trainer will give good advice on this. When training make sure to do plenty of core work, stretching and back exercises, as the back often give trouble to tall people.

On the food side, don't just eat crap that won't do you any good and will put on on fat and that is not what you want, you want muscle. I'm not a believer in these radical diets cause it's not something you can keep up long term I feel (just my view) but you clearly expressed an interest cooking and this is a good start, try increasing the amount of protein in the diet and "natural" fats, by putting some extra butter in your mashed potatoes, eating bigger pieces of meat extra. You need to keep a balanced diet though so just a bit more of everything.

Lastly rest, this is key as it's when the muscles grow and repair. Give yourself down time to recover properly.

Best of luck and don't be afraid to seek help from qualified people on different areas you mention. The change will come it will just take time.

Thanks for this advice. I think others are looking at this purely from a cycling POV which is fair enough...it is a cycling forum but it's also a self esteem issue for me and my intention is not to become a pro or a racer.

I think it would be a good idea to do this with qualified people.
Unfortunately I also have other problems in socializing and concentration which I'm trying to resolve. I have hypothyroidism and also adhd which have only been diagnosed recently. This would make it more difficult for me to go to a gym or to work with a trainer but I need to try I suppose.

hynesie

Since this topic has moved from Giant bikes (if it ever was on this topic) to bulking up/body image issues, I think it should be pointed out that you are definitely in the wrong place.
Most people here either have the same body shape as you or want it :P
Kinda reminds me of a skinny person asking an anorexic how to put on weight.

irlforum

hynesie wrote: »

Most people here either have the same body shape as you or want it :P

That actually does make me feel better. Though I think they want to look or be like rasmussen than peter crouch, no?

hynesie wrote: »

Kinda reminds me of a skinny person asking an anorexic how to put on weight.

Haha...:D:D:D

I'm probably wrecking everyones head here I know - especially Lumens!

I could start the thread up in fitness but it would be hard to explain all again and if you moved the thread it's too long to start reading maybe - anyway I think most of the readers have said what they have to say. Thanks for replying.

wersal gummage

going to a doctor to get a referral to a diet specialist, spending 1700 euro on a bike you're no sure if you'll use that much, spending money on fancy chopping boards and knife sets so you'll find cooking more interesting......

jeez, by the time you've worked out what you want to spend your money on next you'd have spent an hour in the gym and gone for a cycle:)

just get out there, enjoy your health and try to stop worrying about what you look like and whether you've got the shinniest bike on the road !! in my experience, a GP will not encourage you to bulk up by the way, if your in good health thats all that matters. try and stick at something for a while - take it easy and build up gradually.

I dont know a lot about cycling (only recently into it in any kind of serious sense) but I would say that if you dont understand what sort of equipment you are getting on a giant TCR bike, there may not really be any need for one.

irlforum

Hi,
Today I decided that the 1700 bike was too expensive. Today I was checking out the diaferant defty 2 2010. http://www.cyclesuperstore.ie/shop/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=35&idproduct=31175

This is about 1k and includes bike to work scheme.

The only thing is I can't make my own mind up whether to wrong large or extra large. In the large the seat needs to be fairly a good bit higher than the handlebars and not as much in extra large.

The extra large might actually feel that there is a little more driving power when accelarating than the smaller but I'm not sure. Other than that I think extra large is quite marge and looks fairly ugly compared to a smaller one.

What do you think? It's this size or a little more that the seat is above the handlerbars. Is this normal enough?

I remember on my old Giant OCR3 I used to always get a soar back after being on the back for 2 hours or more. I'm still not sure why exactly.

Here are the two bikes with high seat (not mine) but mine is similar or higher. http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/6489/defyl.jpg
http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/8471/1255434932108qnk1sjwez5.jpg

spurscormac

Ok, for choosing bike size, you need to go in person to the bike shop.
The guys or gals there should be able to pick out the correct size for you and set it up accordingly.

I'm no expert, and am waiting on my own bike to work voucher to pick up the bike I chose a couple of weeks ago. But the advice on here is definitely to get a good bike shop to fit the bike to you, as this will help prevent some (not all) aches and pains while out for a longer spin.

The setup will include choice of frame size, length of seatpost, spacers for the handlebars etc etc to make sure it fits you best.
I was much happier with one shop over another in the way this was done, so went with them when purchasing, so don't be put off if you get the "disinterested" worker in the first shop you go to.

Lumen

The seat will be the same height in all sizes.

The Defy has fairly high handlebars already, but if you want them higher you can just flip the stem to add 30mm or so.

The headtube on the XL is 25mm taller, but the stem will be shorter for the same reach, reducing the handlebar height difference to around 22mm.

Ride both and see which feels better. There's no point in buying from a local shop if you can't test ride them. The larger one has a longer wheelbase and will position your weight further back, so will feel more lazy/stable.

As you cycle more you'll tend to want the handebars lower and a more forward position, so the XL might prove limiting in the long term.

irlforum

spurscormac wrote: »

Ok, for choosing bike size, you need to go in person to the bike shop.
The guys or gals there should be able to pick out the correct size for you and set it up accordingly.

I'm no expert, and am waiting on my own bike to work voucher to pick up the bike I chose a couple of weeks ago. But the advice on here is definitely to get a good bike shop to fit the bike to you, as this will help prevent some (not all) aches and pains while out for a longer spin.

The setup will include choice of frame size, length of seatpost, spacers for the handlebars etc etc to make sure it fits you best.
I was much happier with one shop over another in the way this was done, so went with them when purchasing, so don't be put off if you get the "disinterested" worker in the first shop you go to.

Yes I did actually go to a shop and tested a few bikes with a salesperson at lunctime. Sorry my post earlier was not all that clear.

I actually found the guy quite good today but still am unsure a little myself between large and extra large.

Lumen wrote: »

The seat will be the same height in all sizes.

The Defy has fairly high handlebars already, but if you want them higher you can just flip the stem to add 30mm or so.

The headtube on the XL is 25mm taller, but the stem will be shorter for the same reach, reducing the handlebar height difference to around 22mm.

Ride both and see which feels better. There's no point in buying from a local shop if you can't test ride them. The larger one has a longer wheelbase and will position your weight further back, so will feel more lazy/stable.

As you cycle more you'll tend to want the handebars lower and a more forward position, so the XL might prove limiting in the long term.

Yes I did actually test ride them today - wasn't clear in earlier post.

Interesting that the handlebars are meant to be lower (and that I'm meant to be leaning over) - this was one of my main concerns with the large vs. extra large. I thought the extra large was nice to ride tbh and my sitting position made driving the pedals a much different experience to the large.

Overall though I just could not make up my mind between the two. To make it more difficult he did not have the defy in XL so I was using another giant bike with different handlebars. Salesman said the frame is the same as defy XL though.

So XL = More stable I'd say and felt like power distribution was better through the pedal radius. The handlebars were a tiny stretch but they were not the proper defy bars. I thought the XL looks big and ugly also but I suppose that should be low down on my priorities - repeat "should be" - I like to love the design/look of my bike.

Large - Here the handlerbars allowed me to relax my arms a little rather than being stretched which I think is very important - a pro cyclist told me this before. In fact he used to tell me that this non relaxing of my arms was the cause of my back/ shoulder pain. I kept trying to relax them though as per his instructions but it never worked - though I was only really doing these long 3hr spins for a few weeks. I got the impression from him that this back pain was common for newbies due to not relaxing there arms properly?

My main dissapointment on the large frame was the power distribution throughout the radius was not as "natural" or the acceleration was not as clean. Again annoying the way I didn't have a defy XL to ride because it may not be the frame size at all.

I also rode a large specialized allez but didn't notice any difference between it and the defy.

By the way all the large frame defy riding was on the defy 3 because he didn't have the defy 2 in stock that I'm interested in. He said he could order it in but that he couldn't really order both a large and extra large because he would find it hard to sell the XL should I have taken large.

I'm not sure really now. I think the design and good looks of a large frame would really push me or bias me towards large even if there were some benefits to XL but maybe I should go to Dublin to sit on both sized defys in cycle superstore. I'm in Galway btw.

Lumen

You should not buy a bike from a shop that can't even get the fit correct with you sitting on the bike in front of them.

That's their job.

hynesie

Lumen wrote: »

You should not buy a bike from a shop that can't even get the fit correct with you sitting on the bike in front of them.

That's their job.

But what did the shop recommend?
It's not clear from the post what the shop has suggested vs what irlforum's opinions are.

Lumen

hynesie wrote: »

But what did the shop recommend?
It's not clear from the post what the shop has suggested vs what irlforum's opinions are.

That's why I'm suggesting he goes to a different shop. The customer should not leave more confused than they entered.