Nikon D300, commander mode, 1/250, ambient light?

mrmac

Started to play around with the commander mode, for triggering an SB-800 & SB-900, and I need some help.

When in commander mode, using the on camera flash, I can't seem to get a shutter speed faster than 1/250. I'm still getting ambient light into the shot, and I'd really like that to be zero.

Is there a setting hidden in the vast array of menus???

Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.

mehfesto

mrmac wrote: »

Started to play around with the commander mode, for triggering an SB-800 & SB-900, and I need some help.

When in commander mode, using the on camera flash, I can't seem to get a shutter speed faster than 1/250. I'm still getting ambient light into the shot, and I'd really like that to be zero.

Is there a setting hidden in the vast array of menus???

Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.

I had this issue before and the answer I got was: You won't be able to get faster than that due to the shutter sync speed.

It's more than enough though, I was told - You either just make the aperture more narrow, or reduce the power of the flashes if they're too bright.

What are you doing yourself with it - might be able to help you, I'm toying with two flashes myself now!

mrmac

There must be some way around that???
I was out taking some shots of a local steel sculpture, something I was considering for the "Local History" assignment.

Two flashes facing up into two sections of the sculpture, F22 (max), on camera @ 1/5, SB-800 @ 1/3.2, SB-900 @ 1/13. - still ambient light from the sky. The sky was quite dark anyway, but spoiled by bright bits.

EDIT: gimme a few minutes and I can post up a jpeg.

mehfesto

mrmac wrote: »

There must be some way around that???
I was out taking some shots of a local steel sculpture, something I was considering for the "Local History" assignment.

Two flashes facing up into two sections of the sculpture, F22 (max), on camera @ 1/5, SB-800 @ 1/3.2, SB-900 @ 1/13. - still ambient light from the sky. The sky was quite dark anyway, but spoiled by bright bits.

EDIT: gimme a few minutes and I can post up a jpeg.

Hmmm... I might be a bit outta my depth with this one.

What's your ISO currently?

This might help too.

mrmac

I'm not bothered about the street lights, or the flash flare in the bottom right. No matter what I tried, I just couldn't get rid of the ambient from the sky. This is probably as good / dark as I managed to get.

EDIT: I tried ISO L.07, 03, 200, - no joy.

gloobag

Well, Canon flashes allow you to use high speed sync (sync at any shutter speed, by pulsing the flash continuously while the partly opened shutter curtains move across the cameras sensor), so I'd be surprised if Nikon didn't have a similar feature.

I don't use Nikon stuff so I can't tell you for sure, but I'd bank on them being capable of the same.

mehfesto

mrmac wrote: »

I'm not bothered about the street lights, or the flash flare in the bottom right. No matter what I tried, I just couldn't get rid of the ambient from the sky. This is probably as good / dark as I managed to get.

I see what you mean - it's quite small though, but if it bothers you it's worth getting rid of.

Have you got good PP equipment? You could shoot RAW, take the picture with brighter flash output (making a darker background) and make the sculpture darker in photoshop. Just a suggestion - not very technical though!

Nice picture all the same! And cool sculpture!

mehfesto

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/syncspeed.htm
Bit wordy, but looks perfect!


"Changing ISO does nothing to help since it's the ratio of ambient to flash light that's important."

mrmac

Having a browse through the menus, and at e1 Flash sync speed, there's an option for 1/320 s (Auto FP). It does seem to be helping (here in the kitchen!), but not really sure if that's the right thing to do, but sure I'll give it a try tomorrow.

As for PP, I'm a grumpy sod when it comes to PP.
I torment myself until I get the image I want, straight from the camera.
That's why I tend to have gels, bits of cardboard and elastic bands spilling out of my camera bag!!! lol.


Thanks for the input btw, I just thought I was missing something simple, instead of something simple being missing!

mrmac

Just back to say, I think I've figured it out.

Go to e3 Flash cntrl for built-in flash > Commander mode > Built-in flash = set this to "off" or --.

It still fires a signal light, but you can set the shutter to whatever you like!

WooooHooooo!

Now I can go to bed.

Thanks again to gloobag and mehfesto for bouncing ideas at me.

charybdis

I would recommend setting your shutter speed to 1/250 (or whatever your sync speed is) and finding an exposure setting that kills the ambient light. You'll probably end up with something like f/22 at ISO 100. If you cannot completely kill the ambient light using these parameters, you may have to use a neutral density filter.

Now that you have eradicated the ambient light, you can begin to rebuild your exposure with the strobes. From the numbers above, it sounds like you're not using them at full power; crank your key light to full power and reduce it as needs be while balancing it with the other lights.

melekalikimaka

mrmac wrote: »

Just back to say, I think I've figured it out.

Go to e3 Flash cntrl for built-in flash > Commander mode > Built-in flash = set this to "off" or --.

It still fires a signal light, but you can set the shutter to whatever you like!

WooooHooooo!

Now I can go to bed.

Thanks again to gloobag and mehfesto for bouncing ideas at me.

my d50 can sync at 500, but i knew it was an exception for nikons, be careful you dont lend bands with the flash at that speed

mrmac

melekalikimaka wrote: »

my d50 can sync at 500, but i knew it was an exception for nikons, be careful you dont lend bands with the flash at that speed

My D70s can do 1/500th, but I didn't realise it was a special feature.

"lend bands" - sorry, but I don't understand.

mrmac

charybdis wrote: »

... shutter speed to 1/250 (or whatever your sync speed is) and finding an exposure setting that kills the ambient light.

That's just the problem - nothing killed it!
1/250 (max)
f22 (max)
ISO L.07 (lowest setting)

Didn't work. I think I have it sussed with the shutter speed, which I'll try tomorrow. Thanks for all the suggestions folks.

Masada

theres a setting in the D80 that'll let ya go up to any shutter speed ya like, you go into the settings, scroll to number 25 "Auto FP" and you can turn it on or off from there. havent done it with a D300 but it should be close enough.

photomunkey

You could also try out this method

http://www.prophotonut.com/2010/05/23/18000th-flash-sync-with-broncolor-mobil-and-canon-5d-mk2/

I'm sure the same principal would apply with a d300 and a set of pocket wizards or similar

DaireQuinlan

mrmac wrote: »

That's just the problem - nothing killed it!
1/250 (max)
f22 (max)
ISO L.07 (lowest setting)

Didn't work. I think I have it sussed with the shutter speed, which I'll try tomorrow. Thanks for all the suggestions folks.

The sync speed on a camera is a hardwired physical limit, to do with how long the shutter is fully open for to allow the flash to illuminate the frame. BUT, there are a couple of caveats.

First one you can try is ... 1/250 is probably conservative, you -could- try 1/400 or 1/500 as well, and stick the flash in manual and chimp your shots, but there's every possibility that you'll get black banding along the top of your shots as the flash catches the second shutter curtain.

Second one is, as mentioned above, check out the FP mode of the camera. Most modern bodies paired with the appropriate flashes will do this, essentially what happens is that the flash pulses as the slit in the shutter curtain travels down the frame, allowing you to use flash at much much higher shutter speeds. However, this reduces the output of the flash considerably, so might not work out for the scene.

As charybdis says, you essentially want to find an exposure that gives you a completely black frame without using the flash, and then add the flash. This by the looks of things will necessitate you trying either of the two methods above.

mrmac

DaireQuinlan wrote: »

First one you can try is ... 1/250 is probably conservative, you -could- try 1/400 or 1/500 as well, and stick the flash in manual and chimp your shots,

The D300 wont go any faster than 1/250 in commander mode (i.e. wireless operation of flash). My off camera flash are always in manual mode, as you can vary the settings from the camera menu.

DaireQuinlan wrote: »

Second one is, as mentioned above, check out the FP mode of the camera.

There is a 320 FP mode available, still not great, but better.

DaireQuinlan wrote: »

As charybdis says, you essentially want to find an exposure that gives you a completely black frame without using the flash, and then add the flash.

That's fine, but once you switch back to wireless flash remote, you don't have the same scope of adjustment.

I think I have is sorted now anyway, by switching off the built-in, on-camera flash, yet still using it as the commander (weird), I can set the shutter speed to 1/8000 - seems to work ok in my kitchen - lol!


Pic of the flash head sitting on the counter.

Thanks again for all the suggestions.

DaireQuinlan

mrmac wrote: »

I think I have is sorted now anyway, by switching off the built-in, on-camera flash, yet still using it as the commander (weird), I can set the shutter speed to 1/8000 - seems to work ok in my kitchen - lol!
Thanks again for all the suggestions.

Good to know it worked. I guess all these inconsistencies and workarounds are why there are books and seminars and what have you all about the CLS