Discrimination against people because of their surplus weight

consultech

kylith wrote: »

I agree with most of your points, but this is wrong. In many cultures it's desirable, for women especially, to be overweight. It shows that you can afford lots of food, so you're wealthy, it also means that you're less likely to starve to death during famine. In some African cultures before a woman is married she's basically locked away and fed lots of milk in order to fatten her up for her husband.

It's not desirable in "many cultures" as you have suggested. Yes, some cultures in parts of Africa (such as the Efik group at the "fattening rooms" in Calabar, Nigeria) and elsewhere practice the fattening-up of wives, but to label it as common is a big misrepresentation. To suggest that it is an acceptable practice based on the habits of some African ethnic groups is a bit of a stretch (no pun), when the continent as a whole doesn't exactly represent pioneering forward-thinking with it's numerous gauche, and frankly diabolical social norms.

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

That's just sad. I've worked with all kinds of people, of all shapes and sizes and I've never noticed a difference in their ability to work, or to get the job done.

The current work climate is bad enough as it is with a lot of employers adopting the 'we can treat you like crap because you should be glad to have a job' mentality', not to mention pay cuts and three day weeks. To think there are further and such fickle obstacles now facing employees is just so depressing.

Well you've noticed wrong unfortunately.

I do agree with you on a human level though, it's tough enough out there. But for you or any person to claim that an obese individual could perform equally as well in certain roles is ludicrous. What about:
- Being a Guard (Could they give chase/protect equally?) or member of the emergency services?
- Walking 20 minutes across town to a client office without sweating all over themselves and losing a deal on first impression alone?
- Manual Labour where strenuous activity is involved, maybe lifting things up and down stairs?
- Gyms/Clothes shops etc. all operate on business via public perception, something obese people cannot possibly expect to conform to, be that unfair or not.

ash23

Uoykcuf wrote: »

Fair play, but where did the extra 5 stone come from in the first place?

Severe depression which came on when my baby was about 6 months old. I didn't leave the house for two years more or less. Ate to fill the void. But I suppose emotional problems are greed too?

Uoykcuf

PeakOutput wrote: »

you dont think its possible that people have priorities higher than working out?

i work out a good bit, and i hate lazy people who bitch about being tired all the time etc, but there is a middle ground. a single mother who has a full time job and is studying sounds like that middle ground to me if excerisise was more important than either of those 3 things she would be doing it but its not, that dosnt make her lazy.

Nonsense. Exercise doesn't have to mean "working out".

Prioritising your physical and mental health by getting some exercise is something that can be fitted into some part of the day. It makes a lot more sense than moaning about it on the net, which to me indicates laziness.

There's a fair degree of laziness goes into becoming at least 5 stone overweight. I know plenty of extremely busy time poor people in similar situations who find good ways of staying healthy. Being defeatist about this stuff is probably the source of the problem.

Haven't ye read Bill Cullen's book?

PeakOutput

Uoykcuf wrote: »

Prioritising your physical and mental health by getting some exercise is something that can be fitted into some part of the day.

tell me how

Haven't ye read Bill Cullen's book?

oh well if bill cullen said it :rolleyes:

Uoykcuf

ash23 wrote: »

Severe depression which came on when my baby was about 6 months old. I didn't leave the house for two years more or less. Ate to fill the void. But I suppose emotional problems are greed too?

Listen, if you want to pretend you have a monopoly on life's problems that's up to you.

However, if you want to lose weight then you should stop lifting excess food to your face and fit MORE exercise into your day.

ash23

Uoykcuf wrote: »

There's a fair degree of laziness goes into becoming at least 5 stone overweight. I know plenty of extremely busy time poor people in similar situations who find good ways of staying healthy. Being defeatist about this stuff is probably the source of the problem.

Well, if you knew about depression you'd be aware that a general lack of interest in ones self is part of it.
I maintained a healthy weight through pregnancy and beyond that but once the depression set in I just didn't care. It was nothing to do with laziness. Those years are a blur of complete numbness and lack of caring. I barely got dressed, never got my hair cut or cared what I wore. I looked after the baby and made sure she was well presented but I would have been quite happy to not wake up every morning. I wished I were dead on many occasions. I thought my child and partner would be better off without me. I was on auto pilot. I eventually came around but the physical damage was done and it took a long time to get out of the bad habits and routines I'd gotten into.

I got there and I'm still working on it.

But it doesn't make me a lazy person.

ash23

Uoykcuf wrote: »

Listen, if you want to pretend you have a monopoly on life's problems that's up to you.

However, if you want to lose weight then you should stop lifting excess food to your face and fit MORE exercise into your day.

Not at all. I'm actually very happy and content in my life. I actually haven't eaten yet today ironically. My bad habits also involve being too busy to eat for long periods which messes up your metabolism. Something I try to combat but don't always succeed.

You lack empathy and understanding. I'd rather be me fat and all, than be someone who can't see past their own little bubble.

Have a nice day. I'm off to lunch. Tuna salad and a baked potato. Yum.

Uoykcuf

PeakOutput wrote: »

tell me how

Oh well, let me see....

Walking to work?

Using the stairs?

Going for a walk, swim, jog, cycle at lunch-time?

Doing fecking sit-ups/pilates/yoga in the evening.

Uoykcuf

ash23 wrote: »

You lack empathy and understanding. I'd rather be me fat and all, than be someone who can't see past their own little bubble.

.

I'm empathising strongly with your laziness and self absorption.

ash23

Uoykcuf wrote: »

I'm empathising strongly with your laziness and self absorption.

Cheers, you just proved my point!

pickarooney

Darlughda wrote: »

Easily. Burgers and chips and processed frozen foods from Aldi and LiDL cost a lot less than trying to feed a family from freshly sourced ingredients and organic stuff.

Organic food has lower calories now, does it? Or does the overpowering sense of smugness it bestows somehow burn energy?

(Also, can you learn to quote properly?)

PeakOutput

Uoykcuf wrote: »

Walking to work?

Using the stairs?

that wont lead to any serious weight loss and suggesting it will shows your ignorance, for someone who is obese it MIGHT help get the first couple of stone off but its not a way to get fit and lean

Going for a walk, swim, jog, cycle at lunch-time?

what if you ahve to study at lunch time to do better in your exams fo you can earn more money for your family in the long run?

Doing fecking sit-ups/pilates/yoga in the evening.

nothing there will help you lose a significant amount of weight

an excersise bike while watching tv sure but what if you dont have time to be watching tv in the first place. what if you literally are doing something more important than excersise for 16hours a day(like earning money / raising a family / educating yourself)

PeakOutput

pickarooney wrote: »

Organic food has lower calories now, does it? Or does the overpowering sense of smugness it bestows somehow burn energy?

(Also, can you learn to quote properly?)

there are more things to why youshould eat something than how many calories it has

an avocado is packed with calories, its still healthier than a bag of chips

Burgers and chips and processed frozen foods from Aldi and LiDL cost a lot less than trying to feed a family from freshly sourced ingredients and organic stuff.

having said that this is completely wrong

i could feed a family of 5 perfectly healthily on 100euro a week

40euro on various meats fish and eggs from butcher

30 euro on fruit and veg from lidl/aldi(you will get a cack load of fruit and veg for that)

30 euro on sauces / herbs and spices / wholegrain rice and pasta from superquinn(ie the 'good stuff')

will you have to spend alot more time cooking this food than you would the pizza or oven chips most people feed their family, of course, its the time investment people wont put in not the money investment

kylith

ash23 wrote: »

My weekly food budget for myself and one child is €30.

I feed 2 adults for €60. We eat a fair bit of meat.

If you'd like to get more protein into your diet I'd recommend checking out your local butcher. Offal is very nutritious and very cheap (2 lamb hearts and 3 lamb kidneys for under €3 if you shop around. 1 heart would feed 2 people). Even things like chicken breasts, mince and so forth are cheaper in butchers than in supermarkets.

Uoykcuf wrote: »

You don't need time or money to stop eating too much food.

Agreed. I lost, at last count, 4 stone by spending less money on food (crisps and chocolate), going for an hour's walk in the evening and swapping the bus for a bicycle. My morning commute now takes half the time it did when I used public transport.

consultech wrote: »

It's not desirable in "many cultures" as you have suggested. Yes, some cultures in parts of Africa (such as the Efik group at the "fattening rooms" in Calabar, Nigeria) and elsewhere practice the fattening-up of wives, but to label it as common is a big misrepresentation. To suggest that it is an acceptable practice based on the habits of some African ethnic groups is a bit of a stretch (no pun), when the continent as a whole doesn't exactly represent pioneering forward-thinking with it's numerous gauche, and frankly diabolical social norms.

My point was simply that the notion that thinner = better is a relatively modern and cultural one. Curvy women were seen as better right up to the mid 20th century.

Uoykcuf

PeakOutput wrote: »

that wont lead to any serious weight loss and suggesting it will shows your ignorance, for someone who is obese it MIGHT help get the first couple of stone off but its not a way to get fit and lean



what if you ahve to study at lunch time to do better in your exams fo you can earn more money for your family in the long run?



nothing there will help you lose a significant amount of weight

an excersise bike while watching tv sure but what if you dont have time to be watching tv in the first place. what if you literally are doing something more important than excersise for 16hours a day(like earning money / raising a family / educating yourself)

What if you eat healthily and stay active as much as is possible during your day?

It works for all the healthy people I know, whether they "work out" or not...

Adding caveats to all the scenarios you've given smells of defeatist laziness to me. What if this and that.........

WHAT IF people who are overweight didn't eat so much in the first place, and moved around more? That's hardly time consuming is it?

Hannibal Smith

consultech wrote: »

Well you've noticed wrong unfortunately.

I do agree with you on a human level though, it's tough enough out there. But for you or any person to claim that an obese individual could perform equally as well in certain roles is ludicrous. What about:
- Being a Guard (Could they give chase/protect equally?) or member of the emergency services?
- Walking 20 minutes across town to a client office without sweating all over themselves and losing a deal on first impression alone?
- Manual Labour where strenuous activity is involved, maybe lifting things up and down stairs?
- Gyms/Clothes shops etc. all operate on business via public perception, something obese people cannot possibly expect to conform to, be that unfair or not.

I haven't noticed wrong. I read the link you posted, but that doesn't relate to the people I've worked with. In fact one office I worked in there was a girl who had a lovely figure, but came into work hungover all the time and actually fell asleep at her desk one day Where I work now the girl i work with is a bit on the heavy side and jees I've never seen anyone work as hard as her, including me :eek::D

Of course there are jobs which would require physical fitness to do and in that case discriminitive as it may be it's just common sense not to employ them.

But to not employ some one in a general run of the mill job because of their physical size, when the climate is difficult enough is just inexcusable. It doesn't determine the kind of employee they are, there are plenty of thin people who are not focused and are plain lazy.

ash23

Uoykcuf wrote: »

What if you eat healthily and stay active as much as is possible during your day?

It works for all the healthy people I know, whether they "work out" or not...

Adding caveats to all the scenarios you've given smells of defeatist laziness to me. What if this and that.........

WHAT IF people who are overweight didn't eat so much in the first place, and moved around more? That's hardly time consuming is it?

There is a difference between keeping slim and actually losing weight. I found it hard to lose weight but reasonably easy to keep it off.

Wazdakka

Fat people are fat..
There's no way of sugar coating it.

And it's probably not a good idea to even try,
Because then they would just try and eat it.

mloc

Darlughda wrote: »

Even if it is, who the hell are any of you to judge another person for that?

You are their prospective boss.

PeakOutput

Uoykcuf wrote: »

What if you eat healthily and stay active as much as is possible during your day?

people can eat healthy once they realise how much damage they are doing to themselves by not doing it(ie educating themselves) and still not get to a healthy weight because it take excersise.

Adding caveats to all the scenarios you've given smells of defeatist laziness to me. What if this and that.........

no it smells like reality in full colour not your black and white version and you smell like a troll

WHAT IF people who are overweight didn't eat so much in the first place, and moved around more? That's hardly time consuming is it?

im only refering to ash now as it happens to be an easy example but she doesnt eat so much and eats healthy but thats not good enough for you.


i HATE lazy fat people i think they are a scourge and if they have children and feed them the same way the children should be taken off them BUT that dosnt mean every fat person is lazy, people choose what to put their time into. some people love working out some people love setting up business's and working every hour of the day to make them a success and some people love raising a family as best they can the latter two might be fat, that dosnt mean they are lazy

Uoykcuf

Fair enough. Did you do any exercise at lunch time?

Hannibal Smith

Uoykcuf wrote: »

There's a big difference between pregnancy and gluttony. :pac:

not as regards fullfilling your employment requirements there's not

Uoykcuf

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

not as regards fullfilling your employment requirements there's not

Well, you don't get statutory 'Gluttony Leave'.

star.chaser

ash23 wrote: »

As per tesco.ie

1 kg pasta (own brand) €1.63
Own brand round steak mince 500g €6.00 (no point in trying to be healthy and eating something thats mainly fat)
Can of tomatoes (you'd need 2) own brand 80c each.

Total = €9.23.


Or toddle over to the freezer and get

1.5kg oven chips own brand €1.34
2 large tins own brand baked beans 49c each
Box of 10 cod fish fingers (birds eye) €2.94

Total = €5.26


THAT is the reality of it.

Crap processed food is cheaper.

Hence why those on the poverty line tend to be more overweight.
Its because "healthy" food is more expensive. Even for the basics.

forget the beans and buy some laxatives and your sorted

Bottle_of_Smoke

ash23 wrote: »

Are you going to pay for it and mind my daughter while I do? :rolleyes:

If you can afford to be fat you can afford the gym.

Trashbat

Uoykcuf wrote: »

I'm empathising strongly with your laziness and self absorption.

Would i be right in saying an overweight person was promoted ahead of you at some stage?

Judging by the language in previous posts (lifting food to your face etc....) you are not rationally arguing any point and more attempting to attack a certain stereotype (an unfair and medically outdated on at that).

Look the fact is a number of factors affect weight and its not all about being lazy, selfish and overconsuming.

I'd like to highlight this with my own story:

About seven years ago I suffered a severe injury (basically shattered my entire left ankle and severed all ligaments). I was training at a high level at that point and thus had to stick to a relatively high protien and calorie diet to maintain a significant level of training. When the injury happened it took along time to reajust to a normal diet for a number of reasons 1) Being 19 and not really knowing anything about balanced diets other then what my trainers told me 2) Intense hunger pains (some psychological) from such a drastic lifestyle change. As a result of this I gained weight. Also missing the social aspect of training, my other social options mainly involved a pub, and that combined with depression at not training led to more alcohol intake.

I went from a fighting weight of 13 stone to 17 stone.

Since recovering and teaching myself to walk normally again, as well as coping with other injuries that were a result of the initial injust (back problems, RSI in my arms from the crutches) I have been unable to train any of the disciplines I was previously involved in, thus at about 21 years of age (yes, two years recovery in total) I have to learn a totally new form of excercise.

It took a long time and i've dropped alot of the weight (although not back to my original fighting weight, probably never will be), but it was a very difficult process.

I found losing weight difficult, and I had a pre existing enjoyment and culture of excercise. Someone without that would have to try very hard. These factors must be considered before throwing ignorant statements around.

As for being an employer and deciding who to hire, I find avoiding morons to be a good policy, appearance doesnt come into it. If i was that idiotic and shallow, I wouldnt be in business.

Uoykcuf

@Trashbat

To summarise your lengthy post.

1. You hurt your ankle

2. Ate too much

3. Went to the pub

RESULT?

Much extra poundage.

MY ADVICE?.

Eat and drink less in future.

Hail 2 Da Chimp

ash23 wrote: »

Crap processed food is cheaper.

First of all your numbers are all wrong! You're picking and choosing products to prove your point, here's a more fitting example:

Tesco brand Birthday cake (it doesn't have to be a special occasion for a fatty to want one of these): €10
2L of coke: ~€2

Meal price: €12

Tesco bunch of bananas: €1
2L of mineral water (could even have tap water for free): €1

Meal price: €2.

Trashbat

Uoykcuf wrote: »

MY ADVICE?.

Eat and drink less in future.

So you didn't read the whole way through then? :rolleyes:

PK2008

If you cant lift her, dont shift her.


I like curvy girls though